Kostya damaged respect?

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:16

I was surprised by the retirement myself but looking through alot of the forums alot of people are saying they lost respect for Kostya.

The fight was a losing battle but other fighters have stuck to the task and pulled it off ie. Chavez V Taylor, I am not critising merely asking the question, its easy for us to say he should have stuck in there and gone down on his shield, but has he tarnished his reputation now?

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:20

Among anyone who has any idea of what it's like being in the same situation: no. It's not cut and dry with this type of thing and you certainly can't compare different fighters in different fights like a lot of the no marks are doing.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:24

tonyevs wrote:I am not critising merely asking the question, , but has he tarnished his reputation now?

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:24

This old post by FlawedGenius adds an interesting angle on things:

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 861#106861

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:26

tonyevs wrote:
tonyevs wrote:I am not critising merely asking the question, , but has he tarnished his reputation now?

When I said 'you', I didn't mean you personally. I did actually read your post.

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:28

I think any talk of "tarnished reputations" is a bunch of dog shit. The bloke was beaten, and had the good sense to concede rather than risk injury.

Anyone who disagrees, I'm sure a conversation with the wife/kids/significant others of Benny Paret, Beathaven Scottland, Johnny Owen and the countless others who didn't get out before they got hurt would realign some of your opinions.

Then again, maybe not.

PS: Sorry to come on so strong, but I've read a lot of shit today and it's beginning to wind me up. I don't need to see a fornicating guy die to entertain me or make me feel like I got my "money's worth".

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:28

No. He had nothing left in rounds ten and eleven, so just hanging in there and staying up shows both how tough and brave he is. I think he could've finished the fight though, Hatton was smart in setting a pace that he knew he could sustain and Tszyu couldn't.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:29

Nels wrote: PS: Sorry to come on so strong, but I've read a lot of shit today and it's beginning to wind me up. I don't need to see a fornicating guy die to entertain me or make me feel like I got my "money's worth".

Well said

states · Post by **states** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:33

Nah, his reputation was secure long before last night. Plus, I think it was more his corner pulling him out, rather than any 'no mas' situation. He was sat on that stool with a vacant expression when the decision was made, barely able to speak.

I think Watt called it right: He knew the fight had turned, and gave it everything in the 11th. It wasn't enough, and he was a beaten man. I do think Hatton could have forced a stoppage in the 12th, and the fight was his on the cards anyway. Whilst I'm all for bravery, I don't want to see a guy take punishment he doesn't need.

A guy who's fought and beaten the best over all those years as an amateur and a pro doesn't deserve any disrespect from anyone, let alone internet warriors.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 14:48

Too true, states. For most of these people boxing exists solely to give them a thrill at the weekend. Apart from those 10 minute pre-fight previews the fighter may as well not exist as anything other than a vessel to act out their own repressed fantasies.
I was shocked at Tszyu retiring in the corner (never heard the words 'I quit', nor did I see him take his gumshield out, etc.), but either way he wants to end it is up to him. You just don't know what's going on in a fighter's head at a certain time in a certain fight. It's not like they suddenly become a blanket 'quitter' for one ending like that - especially not at 35 years old after 10 years at the top and having achieved everything in the ring and outside it. To use an example: the parent post here uses the example of Chavez - Taylor, where Chavez showed his grit. But what about the DLH rematch, where he retired/'quit' after being gashed in the mouth and disliking the taste of his own blood? You have to take into account all the circumstances surrounding the fight before even attempting to question such a decision.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:02

No way, he'd just gone through 11 rounds of hell and it was the right thing to pull him out if that's what Jonny Lewis decided: a corner with brains and compassion, a rare thing sometimes.

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:25

Kosta is an all time great he lost to a top young fighter who i think will go on to be an even bigger all time great.

All great boxers lose, Ali & Tyson are a few, its a disgrace the way some people talk about Tyson after how good he was. The way people talk of him as a bum fighter.

Kosta is still a great fighter and can still be number 2 in the World, he has lost before and came back. He aint the 1st good boxer to stay on his stool either!

There are still big fights for him, maybe a rematch it might not be possible to make the Hatton fights against the other top 3

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:29

The aching body and pure burning lungs is a bad enough feeling, as the vast majority of these people wouldn't know.

Then add:

* having a camera zoomed in on every twitch of your face, with millions of people watching live all over the world.

* pushing yourself through god knows how many rounds actually having this feeling.

* having some sort of facial or jaw injury, where you can't tighten it properly (thus weakening your chin).

* going through 30 minutes where you simply haven't been able to get your shots off or fight the game that's brought you such success.

* facing a guy 10 years younger who is bouncing around at the beginning and end of every round like he's ready to do 20.

* having the incentive of knowing you're pocketing a huge paycheck... what's the point of that money if you can't spend it?

* your cornerman who's been with you since forever and knows you inside out is telling you to let it go.

* you know every punch landed against you is going to bring a hellacious cheer from the crowd.

* you know you're in his hometown with the strong potential of hometown judging (which it turned out to be).

* the guy you're fighting is a nice guy and there's no real desire to really try and hurt him.

* you have been shocked to find that this young guy is matching you for strength in the clinch.

Must have been great to have been Kostya Tsyzu at half two in the morning last night.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:33

Manos de Oro wrote:* you know you're in his hometown with the strong potential of hometown judging (which it turned out to be).

Eh? What hometown judging?

Manos de Oro wrote:* the guy you're fighting is a nice guy and there's no real desire to really try and hurt him.

Come along, this isn't world championship tiddlywinks.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:36

Trust me on both points.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:38

Manos de Oro wrote:Trust me on both points.

I refuse. Explain yourself beach boy!

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:50

Chopping Right wrote:
Manos de Oro wrote:Trust me on both points.
I refuse. Explain yourself beach boy!

Can't be bothered typing any more. I have spammed like fornicate today, but you've outlasted me.

Chopping TKO 11 Manos

states · Post by **states** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:51

I'm with Manos here: Whilst I had Hatton up by 2, possibly 3 rounds after the 11th, I can easily see that Johnny Lewis and the rest of the Tszyu camp would imagine that all the close rounds would have been scored for Hatton. Not 'home-cooking' as such, but they knew that their man was behind, probably to the extent that he needed a KO to win. And he didn't have the strength to do it.

Plus, Hatton had truly earnt Tszyu's respect: He realised he wouldn't fold, and he wasn't determined to make him pay, unlike, say, Judah. I've always felt that trash-talking is counter-productive, and I think last night proved it.

Finally, I have this to say: If any of the idiots who are calling Tszyu a quitter had been saying it to Kostya when he was sat on that stool, Tszyu would have been up, and put them down, within seconds. I won't pretend that I know what it's like to go through 12 rounds with a champion, but I hate people who disparage them.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:59

Manos de Oro wrote:Can't be bothered typing any more. I have spammed like fornicate today, but you've outlasted me.

Chopping TKO 11 Manos

It has been a remarkable non-stop posting slugfest tis true.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:00

states wrote:I won't pretend that I know what it's like to go through 12 rounds with a champion, but I hate people who disparage them.

Just try pummelling a bag for 30 minutes, it's bad enough for most.

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:04

I'd like to have seen Brian Hughes do the same with David Barnes.

I found the fact that he didn't quite contemptible. Like it was during Gomez-Bognar.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:07

deadpan wrote:..Like it was during Gomez-Bognar.

I also thought there was a worrying similarity. I have always got the impression Hughes cares as much about his fighters as anyone so maybe he just had two awkwards ones there, I'm sure he was wondering about stopping it but what if Barnes had coasted through and got a decision? It wasn't inconceivable.

states · Post by **states** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:23

Chopping Right wrote:
states wrote:I won't pretend that I know what it's like to go through 12 rounds with a champion, but I hate people who disparage them.
Just try pummelling a bag for 30 minutes, it's bad enough for most.

Mate, I've done that. I'm just glad the bag didn't hit back.

Ricky won it fair and square: There's not a person on this board who could have taken his aggression for anywhere near as long as Tszyu did. My point was that nobody should even dare consider Tszyu a quitter.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:54

I get the impression that boxing is becoming infested with WWF fans. They see all this erm.........amazing erm..........action in the wrestling and wonder why boxing isn't as erm......brutal

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:57

No matter how fatigued you are, good boxers should be able to defend themselves. Also, Tszyu quit. There is less respect for quitting at this level.

Kostya damaged respect?

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Kostya damaged respect?

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Re: Kostya damaged respect?