How does your JWW Top 10 look now?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:44

1 - Ricky Hatton
2 - Kostya Tszyu
3 - Floyd Mayweather
4 - Miguel Cotto
5 - Sharmba Mitchell
6 - Arturo Gatti
7 - Vivian Harris
8 - Junior Witter
9 - Lovemore N'dou
10 - Demarcus Corley

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:50

I wouldn't argue with that. Shame Zab judah moved up now, perhaps he was worried that he'd end up in a rematch with Tszyu at 140lb. Now he probably wouldn't mind a big payday in Manchester.

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:54

1 Mayweather
2 Hatton
3 Tszyu
4 Cotto
5 Harris
6 Gatti
7 Witter
8 Mitchell
9 M'Baye
10 Corley

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:55

My T Sharp wrote:1 Mayweather
2 Hatton
3 Tszyu
4 Cotto
5 Harris
6 Gatti
7 Witter
8 Mitchell
9 M'Baye
10 Corley

What has Mayweather done at 140? Precocious talent he is, but has yet to do anything at 140 that remotely resembles stopping Kostya Tszyu.

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:58

Chopping Right wrote:
My T Sharp wrote:1 Mayweather
2 Hatton
3 Tszyu
4 Cotto
5 Harris
6 Gatti
7 Witter
8 Mitchell
9 M'Baye
10 Corley
What has Mayweather done at 140? Precocious talent he is, but has yet to do anything at 140 that remotely resembles stopping Kostya Tszyu.

I chose my top ten on boxing ability, not lean on chest and wear down for eleven rounds ability.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:01

My T Sharp wrote:I chose my top ten on boxing ability, not lean on chest and wear down for eleven rounds ability.

Why not choose them on their results at 140, the usual way of ranking 140lb fighters?

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:52

Chopping Right wrote:
My T Sharp wrote:I chose my top ten on boxing ability, not lean on chest and wear down for eleven rounds ability.
Why not choose them on their results at 140, the usual way of ranking 140lb fighters?

Very hard to do when Mayweather has fought twice at 140, I went on the basis of 13 WBC title wins and 2 WBC eliminator wins against 39 handpicked opponents.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:59

My T Sharp wrote:
Chopping Right wrote:
My T Sharp wrote:1 Mayweather
2 Hatton
3 Tszyu
4 Cotto
5 Harris
6 Gatti
7 Witter
8 Mitchell
9 M'Baye
10 Corley
What has Mayweather done at 140? Precocious talent he is, but has yet to do anything at 140 that remotely resembles stopping Kostya Tszyu.
I chose my top ten on boxing ability, not lean on chest and wear down for eleven rounds ability.

So you think Hatton is more able than Harris and Cotto?

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 05 Jun 2005, 17:09

Southpaw Stylist wrote:
My T Sharp wrote:
Chopping Right wrote: What has Mayweather done at 140? Precocious talent he is, but has yet to do anything at 140 that remotely resembles stopping Kostya Tszyu.
I chose my top ten on boxing ability, not lean on chest and wear down for eleven rounds ability.
So you think Hatton is more able than Harris and Cotto?

Yes on the basis of 2 traditionally being higher than 4 and 5 in boxing rankings :P

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 05 Jun 2005, 17:09

My T Sharp wrote:
Chopping Right wrote:
My T Sharp wrote:I chose my top ten on boxing ability, not lean on chest and wear down for eleven rounds ability.
Why not choose them on their results at 140, the usual way of ranking 140lb fighters?
Very hard to do when Mayweather has fought twice at 140, I went on the basis of 13 WBC title wins and 2 WBC eliminator wins against 39 handpicked opponents.

So Tszyu was handpicked now? For fucks sake.

Ratings are made on achievements and who you've beaten at the weight not what you might achieve. Hatton is above Mayweather in any sensible rankings.

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 05 Jun 2005, 17:26

nickd wrote:
My T Sharp wrote:
Chopping Right wrote: Why not choose them on their results at 140, the usual way of ranking 140lb fighters?
Very hard to do when Mayweather has fought twice at 140, I went on the basis of 13 WBC title wins and 2 WBC eliminator wins against 39 handpicked opponents.
So Tszyu was handpicked now? For fucks sake.

Ratings are made on achievements and who you've beaten at the weight not what you might achieve. Hatton is above Mayweather in any sensible rankings.

Ricky held two mandatory slots WBO & IBF.

One champ is 24 years old 23(19)-0, but with few big names on the record.

The other is 35 years old, was 30(25)-1 and ranked P4P...but had fought five times in four years, and had trouble making the weight
http://www.allegedly.tv/fw4/viewArtic ... ticle=2117.

Just because Mayweather moves up the weights, it doesn't make him inferior overnight...Ricky probably fought at around 11 stone, so maybe we should have him in some light middleweight rankings (if he makes the top ten :P )

states · Post by **states** » 05 Jun 2005, 17:50

My T Sharp wrote:
Ricky held two mandatory slots WBO & IBF.

One champ is 24 years old 23(19)-0, but with few big names on the record.

The other is 35 years old, was 30(25)-1 and ranked P4P...but had fought five times in four years, and had trouble making the weight
http://www.allegedly.tv/fw4/viewArtic ... ticle=2117.

Just because Mayweather moves up the weights, it doesn't make him inferior overnight...Ricky probably fought at around 11 stone, so maybe we should have him in some light middleweight rankings (if he makes the top ten :P )

This is priceless.... Now hatton get's criticised for taking on the P4P guy instead of the WBO champ. I hope Calzaghe is listening.

As for Mayweather: I think you'll find most people regard him as one of, if not the, world's best, p4p. But he hasn't proved himself at 140 yet. How hard is that to work out? Maybe he would whoop Hatton, but right now Hatton's last fight reads this: TKO over Tszyu. Mayweather's reads this: TKO over Bruseles.

And why the shit about the weight? Mayweather chose to move up. I don't think he needed to myself. But now he's there, and he has to overcome that.

If he does do it, by the way, he will have my utmost respect. I already know how good the guy is, I just think he's going to come unstuck at 140 lb's. It seems a division too far.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 05 Jun 2005, 17:57

My T Sharp wrote:
nickd wrote:
My T Sharp wrote: Very hard to do when Mayweather has fought twice at 140, I went on the basis of 13 WBC title wins and 2 WBC eliminator wins against 39 handpicked opponents.
So Tszyu was handpicked now? For fucks sake.

Ratings are made on achievements and who you've beaten at the weight not what you might achieve. Hatton is above Mayweather in any sensible rankings.
Ricky held two mandatory slots WBO & IBF.

One champ is 24 years old 23(19)-0, but with few big names on the record.

The other is 35 years old, was 30(25)-1 and ranked P4P...but had fought five times in four years, and had trouble making the weight
http://www.allegedly.tv/fw4/viewArtic ... ticle=2117.

Just because Mayweather moves up the weights, it doesn't make him inferior overnight...Ricky probably fought at around 11 stone, so maybe we should have him in some light middleweight rankings (if he makes the top ten :P )

Mayweather has not done enough AT 140 to be rated #1 there. He definitely has the potential to do so but you rate boxers on who they have beaten not how good you think they are. Mayweather has to be behind Hatton in any sane thinking.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jun 2005, 18:16

1) Hatton
2) Gatti
3) Mayweather
4) Tszyu
5) Cotto
6) Harris
7) Mitchell
8) Witter
9) Corely
10) Abdulaev.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 05 Jun 2005, 18:20

I bet you didn't have Mayweather #1 this time yesterday (ie before the fight).
If you didn't, then plz explain how when Hatton beats Tszyu its Mayweather who gets moved up? Floyd should just not fight at all, doesn't need to, just sit at home watching fights on tv with a cold beer and watching his ranking go up each time someone else wins. He could be a 10 weight champion before he retires, without moving a muscle.

states · Post by **states** » 05 Jun 2005, 18:27

One great thing about the 140lb guys right now, is that everyone is fighting. All the belts are being placed on the line, and we should have a good impression of how the division stands by the end of the summer.

Right now, Hatton is number 1, due to the fact that he beat the man. Hell, The Ring will have him as the champ, and I'm sick of hearing about how their belts are the only ones that count.

Gatti and Harris defend belts they didn't take off the true champ, although Gatti-Mayweather is a genuine fight.

And, strangely, Cotto is on the outside for the first time, after a meteoric rise. And it comes after the first doubts were raised, bad timing for him.

Hopefully, next year, after the dust settles, we can see a tournament to unify this fine division.

However, I see one problem: Somehow, the WBC will install Branco as a mandatory........

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 05 Jun 2005, 20:13

I'm still going for Mayweather on ability, he can outbox anyone in the division...he doesn't have to wait until they are aged 35+ and then lean over them all night banging away to the body.

States made a good point...hopefully next year the dust may have settled a bit 8)

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 05 Jun 2005, 20:20

My T Sharp wrote:I'm still going for Mayweather on ability, he can outbox anyone in the division...he doesn't have to wait until they are aged 35+ and then lean over them all night banging away to the body.

States made a good point...hopefully next year the dust may have settled a bit 8)

Lol...

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 05 Jun 2005, 23:35

The thing is, there's probably just as many examples of fighter's who have failed at the higher weight as have succeeded. DLH is the obvious one who did well, but for every one like that there's also a Shane Moseley - someone who simply can't reproduce their best form with the added weight. Some fighters just go too high, and for all the wrong reasons. There's a big difference going up in weight because your body has 'grown' into a higher weight, and bulking up for pay days, which is what I think Mayweather has done.

J · Post by J » 06 Jun 2005, 07:29

IM TAKING NO NOTICE OF THE HATOTN DETRACTORS ITS THE SAME FOLK WHO WERE SAIYNG HEW WOULDNT LAST A ROUND.

its agreat thing to be able to admit you were wrong. So credit to thiose who are givinghatotn props after predicting different.

I did not read one person saying Kostya was over the hill prior to the and now you claim he is?

hang your head in shame.

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 06 Jun 2005, 08:37

J wrote:IM TAKING NO NOTICE OF THE HATOTN DETRACTORS ITS THE SAME FOLK WHO WERE SAIYNG HEW WOULDNT LAST A ROUND.

its agreat thing to be able to admit you were wrong. So credit to thiose who are givinghatotn props after predicting different.

I did not read one person saying Kostya was over the hill prior to the and now you claim he is?

hang your head in shame.

Hatton was amazing

...but I like to see things in perspective. Tszyu was 35 and had 5 fights in 4 years (and was tight at the weight).

Mitchell and Leija were past the best, and Tackie is tough but ordinary. The Judah win was fantastic, but if Judah would have boxed more sensibly he would of won.

And before that most people forget he had a points decision over Urkal.

Hatton needs to fight boxers who are in their prime, thats how boxers like Barrera and Morales get the kudos.

Obviously it depends on the big fights being made, but I not gonna number one rank a fighter who has never faced a mandatory opponent and the average age of his opponents is 30+

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Jun 2005, 08:43

J wrote:IM TAKING NO NOTICE OF THE HATOTN DETRACTORS ITS THE SAME FOLK WHO WERE SAIYNG HEW WOULDNT LAST A ROUND.

its agreat thing to be able to admit you were wrong. So credit to thiose who are givinghatotn props after predicting different.

I did not read one person saying Kostya was over the hill prior to the and now you claim he is?

hang your head in shame.

I confess to being one of those, but my opinion of Hatton has gone through the roof. While you can say Tszyu is not as good as he was he was still an exceptional champion who had just demolished Mitchell.

Tszyu had been relatively inactive, but Hatton's plan was to tire him out and it worked. I really don't think Tszyu will retire, I think he might be tempted back to a rematch which could well end up being an altogether different fight.

I still think Tszyu would beat anyone at 140 bar Hatton and Mayweather and he could still beat either of them on a given night.

I'd like to see a rematch now the dust has settled. Tszyu is normally a master tactician I'd love to see if he could devise something in the gym/training to combat Hatton's marauding attacks. I wouldn't put it past him to be honest.

J · Post by J » 06 Jun 2005, 08:50

not having a go at you necessarily mate, but where were you when i posted this ?

kmaybe you just missed it :)

acxtually the two people who repsonded have no reason to front up. Nothing wrong with picking agianst hatton its the bad mouthing, i hate.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

QUOTE
reasonS i can find to be optimistic

1. inactivity, bloke has had 2.5 rounds in 2.5 years. Ringrust against a hatton in front of a home crowd is not something you want.

2. Michell was dreadful and imo overated massivley, Hatton would have taken him apart, I saw him struggle against mike stewart from ringside, trust me Mitchell was never a great force in the first place. old , shot and shitting himself he was NO test for Kostya.

3. The fact hatton hasnt taken on a top five fighter may also mean we dont know how good he is. He may surprise everyone.

4. styles, Hattons style may cause Zoo some problems the only time he lost agianst Phillips he got outworked, and this is hattons forte

5. All through boxing history we have seen fights like this ending up in upset, the young untested prospect against the supposed invincible but ageing champ.

It happens time and again that the young lad prevails.

Ask Barry Mcguigan (v Pedroza), or Lloyd Honeygun V Don curry for example.

UNQUOTE.

not bieng funny but its very easy ot be wise post the event though i changed my predic to TKO10 after a dream i had.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 06 Jun 2005, 08:55

1. Hatton
2. Harris
3. Mayweather
4. Tszyu
5. Gatti
6. Cotto
7. Mitchell
8. Witter

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 06 Jun 2005, 08:58

Good points nick, but I will still say that Mitchell was faded and Kostya had beaten him before (on an injury though).

A rematch would be interesting on the point of Kostya devising a new strategy, but at 35 and already earned big money and status he didn't show any of the hunger that Ricky did (IMO).

If was definately a match of two halves. I think they both knew that if Ricky got past six rounds he would have the determination to wear kostya down, and he did. I would have favoured the Cotto fight because both the fighters would have been going at it for twelve rounds.

I do see everyones point that Ricky beat 'the man', but I still think 'the man' was faded and that Mayweather has a more credible record.

But hopefully we will get some big matches in this division