Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Panzerfaust]

More to help ignorant Brits learn their boxing history.
How does this compare to the record of Lewis or Hamed???
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Jimmy Wilde

record: 134-4-3 (100KO's)
Alias: The Mighty Atom
Born: 1892-05-12
Birthplace: Quakers Yard, Wales, United Kingdom
Died: 1969-03-10 (Age:76)
Nationality: United Kingdom
Hometown: Quakers Yard, Wales, United Kingdom
Height: 5′ 2½″ / 159cm
Reach: 66″ / 168cm
Flyweight
Manager: Teddy Lewis


He was the son of a miner and became a miner, too. Married at age 18, he became a booth fighter, taking on men weighing as much as 12 stones (170-pounders), and amassing a reported record of some 864 bouts. He first came into prominence in 1912 when he beat Billy Padden for the English Paperweight Title.

An offcourse the undisputed champ of integrity :


Another Welshman with a claim to being the greatest pound for pound fighter of all time is the legendary Peerless Jim Driscoll. Born into poverty in the docks area of Cardiff and one of 5 children. Jim Driscoll was only 7 months old when his father was knocked down and died in a goods yard near his home.
Jim Driscoll was a master of defense yet could mix it with the best of them. Many of his opponents would find themselves chasing his shadow as he effortlessly slipped their best punches then proceeded to give them a boxing lesson. Jim Driscoll was the master of the straight left hand punch. As with most Welsh boxers of this time, Jim Driscoll started out in the boxing booths, which were commonplace in Wales. Fighting against men of all shapes and sizes in the booths proved to be a hard grounding for any would be champion. Legend has it that he would challenge anyone to hit him on the nose while he stood on a handkerchief with his hands tied behind his back ! He never officially achieved the ultimate prize, a World title, but it is testimony to the fact that he was such an exceptional boxer that he has achieved legendary status. As he lost only 3 fights in his career it is also proof that he fought in an era where hunger and poverty produced fighters of rare quality.

Jim wins British Title - twice !
After losing only one fight, against Harry Mansfield in a hotly disputed decision, Jim fought for the British featherweight title, in 1906, against the reigning champion Joe Bowker. Although the fight went the full distance of 15 rounds, Bowker was hopelessly outclassed by Driscoll and went down to a points defeat. Jim Driscoll inexplicably gave up his title but the following year met Joe Bowker again for the Featherweight Championship of Great Britain - this time knocking Bowker out in the 17th round to become a two-time British Champion. The next year, 1908, saw Jim avenge his only defeat to date by defeating Harry Mansfield over 6 rounds and taking the Empire title by defeating Charles Griffin over 15 rounds (this fight was also billed as being for the British version of the World Featherweight Title).


Jim Driscoll's Lonsdale Belt


America beckons
He then went to America where his reputation had gone before him. The Americans were keen to see this Welshman they had heard so much about. Stories had gone before him of his ring craft, elusiveness and superior boxing ability. They were not disappointed as Jim set about beating the best America had to offer with ease. They could hardly lay a glove on him.

The Peoples Champion
This was the era of the no-decision in America, where the rules stated that if a boxer was not knocked out then the fight was declared a no-decision. It is primarily this rule which prevented Peerless Jim from being declared a World Champion. At the time the World Featherweight Champion was Abe Atell, a true champion taking on and beating the best of his day. However, Abe Atell would not fight Jim Driscoll in anything other than a 10 round no-decision contest. The fight was agreed and went ahead in February 1910. Undeniably Abe was a great champion but as with the others before him once faced with Peerless Jim Driscoll the story was much the same. Jim peppered Abe constantly with his perfect straight left while evading with ease any offerings from the champion, this continued over the course of the entire fight, with observers later stating that Jim had won every round. It is widely acknowledged that had there been a decision that night then Wales, and the world, would have heralded a new World Champion - Peerless Jim Driscoll. Although a decision was not given it was customary for the ringside reporters to give their decision as to who won the fight. This was done for betting purposes. The reporters all gave the verdict to Jim Driscoll. Indeed, Nat Fleischer when commenting on the fight said 'Driscoll was easily the best. The Welshman easily outpointed Atell and virtually took his title away from him. He definitely proved, as far as I am concerned, that he was the best featherweight in the world'.

Nazareth House
Jim was offered a return fight with the world title at stake but before leaving Wales had promised to box in an exhibition bout at the Nazareth House Orphanage annual charity show. Being a true gentleman he sailed back to Wales the following day to honor his promise, effectively giving up his chance to become a World Champion before he would break the promise he had given.

On his return to Wales he was given a heroes welcome, as far as the Welsh were concerned he WAS the World Champion. Indeed, much of Europe recognised Jim Driscoll as THE World Featherweight Champion and he was billed as such. To this day the nuns of Nazareth House tend his grave. Jim Driscoll was truly a champion.

First featherweight Lord Lonsdale Belt
Jim's next fight was against Seaman Hayes which was won in 6 rounds whereby Jim was presented with the very first featherweight Lord Lonsdale belt and once again became the British Featherweight Champion.. Later that year a controversial chapter in Jim Driscoll's career took place when he fought against his fellow countryman Freddie Welsh. Freddie Welsh was at the time the British Lightweight Champion and already recognized as a world class fighter ( he went on to become World Lightweight Champion). Welsh and Driscoll were great friends but in the build up to the fight the friendship did not last surrounded by all the hype that generated from their respective fans and the press. Sadly, it became a grudge fight between the two Welshmen.


Jim loses his cool - Welsh wins
Two world class fighters of tremendous skill facing each other was surely going to prove a feast for ardent boxing purists. It was not to be. Freddie Welsh adopted rough house tactics and did everything he could to stop Jim from boxing, by legal or illegal means. Jim appealed to the referee on several occasions to no avail- Freddie was holding and hitting to the kidneys amongst various other transgressions of the rules - until in the tenth round he could take no more of Freddie's illegal tactics, losing his patience Jim butted Freddie Welsh full in the face giving the referee no alternative but to immediately disqualify him. Jim was deeply upset by the outcome and pleaded for a return but a rematch never took place.

European Title
Spike Robson was defeated in 7 rounds in Driscoll's next fight giving him the first ownership of a Lord Lonsdale belt. By now though the Peerless One was not a well man, suffering ill health. It was purely because of his superior skill that he was able to continue and took the European title by defeating Jean Posey in 12 rounds.

Defeated by illness
The First World War broke out in 1914, Jim joined the Armed Forces and did not box for 6 years. After a couple of comeback fights Peerless Jim Driscoll stepped in to the ring for the last time in a failed attempt to beat Charles Ledoux, who was considered to be the best featherweight in the world at this time. It was not a wise decision but Jim was not to resist a last big pay day. Ledoux was 11 years younger than Driscoll, at his peak and a rough all-action type of fighter. To make matters even worse Jim had been taken ill four days before the fight and climbed into the ring a very sick man. It was apparent to all at ringside that Jim was indeed a sick man, he looked aged, grey-haired and haggard. Astonishingly however, once the fight had started Jim Driscoll gave a display for 15 rounds of what many consider to be the finest display of classical boxing ever witnessed. He hit Ledoux at will, danced around the ring bobbing and weaving, feinting, jabbing - displaying all his old ring craft. At the end of the eighth round even Ledoux joined in the applause for the brilliant Welsh master. For 15 rounds it was a totally one sided fight, Ledoux could not place a telling punch on Driscoll. For one last time The Master was at work.

It was unfortunate that the fight was over 20 rounds, not the 15 rounds that Driscoll had wanted. After dominating the fight totally for 15 rounds Jim Driscoll was now hopelessly tired. Ledoux connected with a wild right hook to the body of The Master toward the end of the 15th round but did not follow up, such was his surprise at actually striking his opponent. Had he followed up the fight would have ended there and then as Jim was all but out on his feet. Desperately Jim's corner tried to revive him and persuade him not to go out for the next round but Jim would not hear of it. At the sound of the bell Jim staggered to his feet. Before a punch was landed Driscoll's corner threw in the towel.

100,000 honor Jim
It was the end of an illustrious chapter in boxing. Jim Driscoll died on 30th January 1925. He was held in the highest esteem by thousands of people, as was demonstrated at his funeral when more than 100,000 people lined the streets of his hometown, Cardiff. Leading the procession were 100 children from the Nazareth House Orphanage.

(taken from http://www.johnnyowen.com/jim_driscoll.html)

[Rick Farris]

Ron Lyle is 70 today.

So was I, happy birthday Ron

Happy Birthday, telboy66!

[Rick Farris]

This is what I consider a true all-time British great.
Am I wrong? How does Hamed compare with the likes of this, and others I will mention in due course?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jackie (Kid) Berg


Hall of Fame -Class of 1994
Modern Category
World Boxing Hall of Fame Inductee
Alias: The Whitechapel Whirlwind
Birth Name: Judah Bergman
Born: 1909-06-28
Birthplace: Whitechapel, London, United Kingdom
Died: 1991-04-22 (Age:81)
Nationality: United Kingdom
Hometown: Whitechapel, London, United Kingdom
Stance: Orthodox
Height: 5′ 9″ / 175cm

Bouts- 192.
157-26-9 (61KO's)

Trainer: Ray Arcel
Managers: Harry Levine - Sol Gold

The wags on the British forum are obviously lost balls in high grass.

This is where Berg grew up, Fieldgate Mansions in Romford Street, Whitechapel I think the black and white ones are from the 90s.





Here they are today looking a bit cleaned up.

Great photos J-C

[Rick Farris]

ignorant young Brits is Rick meaning me

Naz always sends Rick to a bad place, Tel, but he means the English kids who sadly frequent all boxing forums and know nothing prior to the days of Chris Eubank.

Tel, my comments were not directed to any of the regular posters on this thread.
I go into a similar rant when young American's suggest that Roy Jones Jr. was the PFP all-time best.
Dumb bastids!

[Rick Farris]

Another of my favourites.

Sibbo A gutsy boxer if ever there was

Thanks for the photos of some true British fighters of recent past.

[Rick Farris]

Whittier Blvd, E.L.A

Memories of A Lost Boulevard; Ghosts of the Eastside



By Aidesmadre

The character of the E.L.A. that I knew growing up is long gone. Everything changes, evolves.
Those who lived there before me surely must have cherished their own “good old days” as much as I do mine. And twenty years from now, others will do the same.
We are beings that exist in that sliver of time between our past and future. Yet, if we were to somehow erase every memory from the past out of our minds, who would we be? The sum of our experiences, the memories of what we have lived before, are essentially the totality of who we are at this moment. So have my experiences and present memories of growing up in E.L.A. formed this person that I am today. E.L.A. is in my DNA.
It now brings me joy to reminisce, because I can relive those times. Many thanks to all of you out there who join me on these little journeys to memoryland. So let’s take another trip….

My journey into ELA . . .

Frank . . . I'll always take a seat on those little journeys into the past, especially when it reminds me of what I saw as a little boy.
In the 50's, L.A. had changed from what it was in the 20's & 30's, but there were still reminders.
When I was a young boy in the mid-to-late 50's, I'd occasionally join my dad as he went to his office to retrieve something he was working on.
My dad was in his early 30's, and he was building his future at Bank of America, where he he worked out of the 7th & Spring St. B of A Southern California headquarters.
My dad had quit high school to join the Sea Bees during WW2, so with no college degree, he had to work harder than the others.
Eventually the bank provided his education, they saw someting special in him.
On those little journeys, we'd see the old Red Cars on the tracks that criss-crossed downtown, and the old buildings such as the Richfield Bldg., etc.
A few years later, I became obsessed with boxing, not just interested or a fan, but truly obsessed.
I had to see the Main St. Gym, and my dad took me there one saturday morning around 1962.
One of the guys training in the gym that day was featherweight champ, Davey Moore.
Moore sparred with a great featherweight named Don Johnson, and somebody else whose name I don't know.
I was fascinated by Main Street, the Burlesque houses, the bums, winos, Pawn Shops, etc.
I felt as if I'd been there before, got a feeling of deja vu.
I grew up in the Valley, where things were pretty much middle class white in those days.
I always felt something was missing in the Valley, but I just don't know what it was.
Main Street in downtown L.A., the heart of Skid Row, provided something that I missed.
As I entered boxing, I became very familiar with ELA.
I loved it there, it wasn't like the Valley, people were more "human" for the lack of a better word.
I guess I didn't really fit, most were Latinos, but they all made me feel welcome. They had large, close knit families.
Although ELA can't really be considered my home, I wanted it to be, fighters came from ELA, and really good people.
There was no attitudes in ELA, no phonies, nobody attempting to be more than what they were. No Hollywood types.
It was not as economically strong as some places in Southern Cal, but it was solid, with solid people.
There was an edge. Living there could be tough, and you had to be tough in the barrios. I liked that, a fighter had to be tough.
Yeah Frank, save a seat for me on your bus that travels back thru time in ELA, or downtown, or any place where fighters come from.

[CNorkusJr]

Save a seat on that bus for me. I'd love to tag along at that journey, as I have been doing since I joined this room. Great stuff.

[kikibalt]

Here's a link to a blog I started on the Simons brickyard, this might not be everybody's cup of tea, but some of you might want to join me on a trip back to my youth. if you so desire sign in and make any comments you like...

http://simonsbrickyard.blogspot.com/

[THEHAMMER321]

Whittier Blvd, E.L.A

Memories of A Lost Boulevard; Ghosts of the Eastside



By Aidesmadre

The character of the E.L.A. that I knew growing up is long gone. Everything changes, evolves.
Those who lived there before me surely must have cherished their own “good old days” as much as I do mine. And twenty years from now, others will do the same.
We are beings that exist in that sliver of time between our past and future. Yet, if we were to somehow erase every memory from the past out of our minds, who would we be? The sum of our experiences, the memories of what we have lived before, are essentially the totality of who we are at this moment. So have my experiences and present memories of growing up in E.L.A. formed this person that I am today. E.L.A. is in my DNA.
It now brings me joy to reminisce, because I can relive those times. Many thanks to all of you out there who join me on these little journeys to memoryland. So let’s take another trip….

My journey into ELA . . .

Frank . . . I'll always take a seat on those little journeys into the past, especially when it reminds me of what I saw as a little boy.
In the 50's, L.A. had changed from what it was in the 20's & 30's, but there were still reminders.
When I was a young boy in the mid-to-late 50's, I'd occasionally join my dad as he went to his office to retrieve something he was working on.
My dad was in his early 30's, and he was building his future at Bank of America, where he he worked out of the 7th & Spring St. B of A Southern California headquarters.
My dad had quit high school to join the Sea Bees during WW2, so with no college degree, he had to work harder than the others.
Eventually the bank provided his education, they saw someting special in him.
On those little journeys, we'd see the old Red Cars on the tracks that criss-crossed downtown, and the old buildings such as the Richfield Bldg., etc.
A few years later, I became obsessed with boxing, not just interested or a fan, but truly obsessed.
I had to see the Main St. Gym, and my dad took me there one saturday morning around 1962.
One of the guys training in the gym that day was featherweight champ, Davey Moore.
Moore sparred with a great featherweight named Don Johnson, and somebody else whose name I don't know.
I was fascinated by Main Street, the Burlesque houses, the bums, winos, Pawn Shops, etc.
I felt as if I'd been there before, got a feeling of deja vu.
I grew up in the Valley, where things were pretty much middle class white in those days.
I always felt something was missing in the Valley, but I just don't know what it was.
Main Street in downtown L.A., the heart of Skid Row, provided something that I missed.
As I entered boxing, I became very familiar with ELA.
I loved it there, it wasn't like the Valley, people were more "human" for the lack of a better word.
I guess I didn't really fit, most were Latinos, but they all made me feel welcome. They had large, close knit families.
Although ELA can't really be considered my home, I wanted it to be, fighters came from ELA, and really good people.
There was no attitudes in ELA, no phonies, nobody attempting to be more than what they were. No Hollywood types.
It was not as economically strong as some places in Southern Cal, but it was solid, with solid people.
There was an edge. Living there could be tough, and you had to be tough in the barrios. I liked that, a fighter had to be tough.
Yeah Frank, save a seat for me on your bus that travels back thru time in ELA, or downtown, or any place where fighters come from.

Frank and Rick, I was born about 30 years to late 1967, but that doesn't stop me from being one of the most nostalgic people you will ever meet, I am intrigued mostly with history right after WWII , I hate when the people at these city council meetings start talking about refurbishing old communities and old buildings, I like everything the way it was, ''leave it alone'', as a teenager in Vegas I always hung out with ''oldtimers'' around pool halls in the downtown area, I loved to hear the stories of the way Vegas used to be before these clowns with business degrees started running it, the ''wise guys'' they told me knew how to treat people, they didn't need a textbook to know how to treat the customers they used common sense like ''treat people the way you would like to be treated'' you could never go wrong with that, as far as a lot of those posters on the boxers of the past forum, a lot of them are what I call ''The class of 2000 guys'' they probably walk around with blackberry phones textmessaging everybody and there brother and thinking that the greatest fighter of all time is Roy Jones and Floydmayweather, me I would as my kids tell me,I just want to ''live in the past'' .

[CNorkusJr]

With all this talk about British fighters, I will defer to you guys who know much more about those British blokes of yesteryears than I ever will. But I do remember my father talking about one fellow he met briefly. While I was looking through his photo albums with my father, we came across a picture of my father talking to Paul Berlanbach "The Astoria Assassin" who came to an amateur fight of my dads back in 1948. Along with Mr Berlanbach my father said was a onetime British Isle Heavy Champ named Jack Peterson. My father said he didnt get to talk to Mr Peterson all that much, but rather exchanged pleasantries, and Mr Peterson wished my father well in his boxing career ahead. Jack was then diverted to a group of newspapermen nearby when a news man took a picture of Paul Berlanbach and my father, but Jack was too busy for the picture.
My father remembered him as taller and well built and carried a Champion's "aire" about him.
I dont know if Mr Berlanbach fought Mr Peterson ever,or what business they might of had together, but they came together for the night out.

[kikibalt]

Whittier Blvd, E.L.A

Memories of A Lost Boulevard; Ghosts of the Eastside



By Aidesmadre

The character of the E.L.A. that I knew growing up is long gone. Everything changes, evolves.
Those who lived there before me surely must have cherished their own “good old days” as much as I do mine. And twenty years from now, others will do the same.
We are beings that exist in that sliver of time between our past and future. Yet, if we were to somehow erase every memory from the past out of our minds, who would we be? The sum of our experiences, the memories of what we have lived before, are essentially the totality of who we are at this moment. So have my experiences and present memories of growing up in E.L.A. formed this person that I am today. E.L.A. is in my DNA.
It now brings me joy to reminisce, because I can relive those times. Many thanks to all of you out there who join me on these little journeys to memoryland. So let’s take another trip….

My journey into ELA . . .

Frank . . . I'll always take a seat on those little journeys into the past, especially when it reminds me of what I saw as a little boy.
In the 50's, L.A. had changed from what it was in the 20's & 30's, but there were still reminders.
When I was a young boy in the mid-to-late 50's, I'd occasionally join my dad as he went to his office to retrieve something he was working on.
My dad was in his early 30's, and he was building his future at Bank of America, where he he worked out of the 7th & Spring St. B of A Southern California headquarters.
My dad had quit high school to join the Sea Bees during WW2, so with no college degree, he had to work harder than the others.
Eventually the bank provided his education, they saw someting special in him.
On those little journeys, we'd see the old Red Cars on the tracks that criss-crossed downtown, and the old buildings such as the Richfield Bldg., etc.
A few years later, I became obsessed with boxing, not just interested or a fan, but truly obsessed.
I had to see the Main St. Gym, and my dad took me there one saturday morning around 1962.
One of the guys training in the gym that day was featherweight champ, Davey Moore.
Moore sparred with a great featherweight named Don Johnson, and somebody else whose name I don't know.
I was fascinated by Main Street, the Burlesque houses, the bums, winos, Pawn Shops, etc.
I felt as if I'd been there before, got a feeling of deja vu.
I grew up in the Valley, where things were pretty much middle class white in those days.
I always felt something was missing in the Valley, but I just don't know what it was.
Main Street in downtown L.A., the heart of Skid Row, provided something that I missed.
As I entered boxing, I became very familiar with ELA.
I loved it there, it wasn't like the Valley, people were more "human" for the lack of a better word.
I guess I didn't really fit, most were Latinos, but they all made me feel welcome. They had large, close knit families.
Although ELA can't really be considered my home, I wanted it to be, fighters came from ELA, and really good people.
There was no attitudes in ELA, no phonies, nobody attempting to be more than what they were. No Hollywood types.
It was not as economically strong as some places in Southern Cal, but it was solid, with solid people.
There was an edge. Living there could be tough, and you had to be tough in the barrios. I liked that, a fighter had to be tough.
Yeah Frank, save a seat for me on your bus that travels back thru time in ELA, or downtown, or any place where fighters come from.

Frank and Rick, I was born about 30 years to late 1967, but that doesn't stop me from being one of the most nostalgic people you will ever meet, I am intrigued mostly with history right after WWII , I hate when the people at these city council meetings start talking about refurbishing old communities and old buildings, I like everything the way it was, ''leave it alone'', as a teenager in Vegas I always hung out with ''oldtimers'' around pool halls in the downtown area, I loved to hear the stories of the way Vegas used to be before these clowns with business degrees started running it, the ''wise guys'' they told me knew how to treat people, they didn't need a textbook to know how to treat the customers they used common sense like ''treat people the way that they would like to be treated'' you could never go wrong with that, as far as a lot of those posters on the boxers of the past forum, a lot of them are what I call ''The class of 2000 guys'' they probably walk around with blackberry phones textmessaging everybody and there brother and thinking that the greatest fighter of all time is Roy Jones and Floydmayweather, me I would as my kids tell me,I just want to ''live in the past'' .

Living in the past?, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, depending on your take, the past is all some of us have. I was talking to Don Fraser and he was telling me that he doesn't like to live in the past, he said he like to think about the future, I then asked him how old he was, I knew how he old was, but I asked him to make a point, "I am 84 years old" said Don," Don", I said,"at 84, how much of a future do you think you have?", I then proceeded to tell him, "Don, you and I only have two things now, we have the past and today, today is our future, and if tomorrow comes for us, well, that's just a bonus....I think I left him thinking....

[Rick Farris]

My journey into ELA . . .

Frank . . . I'll always take a seat on those little journeys into the past, especially when it reminds me of what I saw as a little boy.
In the 50's, L.A. had changed from what it was in the 20's & 30's, but there were still reminders.
When I was a young boy in the mid-to-late 50's, I'd occasionally join my dad as he went to his office to retrieve something he was working on.
My dad was in his early 30's, and he was building his future at Bank of America, where he he worked out of the 7th & Spring St. B of A Southern California headquarters.
My dad had quit high school to join the Sea Bees during WW2, so with no college degree, he had to work harder than the others.
Eventually the bank provided his education, they saw someting special in him.
On those little journeys, we'd see the old Red Cars on the tracks that criss-crossed downtown, and the old buildings such as the Richfield Bldg., etc.
A few years later, I became obsessed with boxing, not just interested or a fan, but truly obsessed.
I had to see the Main St. Gym, and my dad took me there one saturday morning around 1962.
One of the guys training in the gym that day was featherweight champ, Davey Moore.
Moore sparred with a great featherweight named Don Johnson, and somebody else whose name I don't know.
I was fascinated by Main Street, the Burlesque houses, the bums, winos, Pawn Shops, etc.
I felt as if I'd been there before, got a feeling of deja vu.
I grew up in the Valley, where things were pretty much middle class white in those days.
I always felt something was missing in the Valley, but I just don't know what it was.
Main Street in downtown L.A., the heart of Skid Row, provided something that I missed.
As I entered boxing, I became very familiar with ELA.
I loved it there, it wasn't like the Valley, people were more "human" for the lack of a better word.
I guess I didn't really fit, most were Latinos, but they all made me feel welcome. They had large, close knit families.
Although ELA can't really be considered my home, I wanted it to be, fighters came from ELA, and really good people.
There was no attitudes in ELA, no phonies, nobody attempting to be more than what they were. No Hollywood types.
It was not as economically strong as some places in Southern Cal, but it was solid, with solid people.
There was an edge. Living there could be tough, and you had to be tough in the barrios. I liked that, a fighter had to be tough.
Yeah Frank, save a seat for me on your bus that travels back thru time in ELA, or downtown, or any place where fighters come from.

Frank and Rick, I was born about 30 years to late 1967, but that doesn't stop me from being one of the most nostalgic people you will ever meet, I am intrigued mostly with history right after WWII , I hate when the people at these city council meetings start talking about refurbishing old communities and old buildings, I like everything the way it was, ''leave it alone'', as a teenager in Vegas I always hung out with ''oldtimers'' around pool halls in the downtown area, I loved to hear the stories of the way Vegas used to be before these clowns with business degrees started running it, the ''wise guys'' they told me knew how to treat people, they didn't need a textbook to know how to treat the customers they used common sense like ''treat people the way that they would like to be treated'' you could never go wrong with that, as far as a lot of those posters on the boxers of the past forum, a lot of them are what I call ''The class of 2000 guys'' they probably walk around with blackberry phones textmessaging everybody and there brother and thinking that the greatest fighter of all time is Roy Jones and Floydmayweather, me I would as my kids tell me,I just want to ''live in the past'' .

Living in the past?, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, depending on your take, the past is all some of us have. I was talking to Don Fraser and he was telling me that he doesn't like to live in the past, he said he like to think about the future, I then asked him how old he was, I knew how he old was, but I asked him to make a point, "I am 84 years old" said Don," Don", I said,"at 84, how much of a future do you think you have?", I then proceeded to tell him, "Don, you and I only have two things now, we have the past and today, today is our future, and if tomorrow comes for us, well, that's just a bonus....I think I left him thinking....

Las Vegas, 1967 . . .

Paul . . . Here is a little irony. On a friday afternoon in June of 1967, a few coaches packed a group of Los Angeles Jr. Golden Glovers into a cars and then drove us to Las Vegas. We were going to fight late on saturday afternoon at an old dirt race track, where afterwards a "Destruction Derby" event would be held after the fights had ended. I fought a kid from Henderson, Nevada, and Frankie Baltazar Jr. fought a guy named Willie Jenson, who would later fight pro under the ring name of "Bird Legs". Albert Davila also fought, and I think Tony and Bobby Baltazar fought as well, but I can't remember. I know that Davila got the "Best Boxer" of the night trophy. We had arrived in town the night before, and we all slept at in a big room at an Elks Club, or something like that. Frank and the other coaches went out to McDonalds and brought back a car load of burgers, fries, etc. for us to eat. The next morning we all had a good breakfast before weighing in for the matches that were to be made. This was my first trip to Las Vegas, I was 15. I remember the LV. Strip, which was nothing like it is today. My mom and dad drove in to Las Vegas before the boxing event, and afterwards I left with them. I remember my parents had a room at the Hacienda (which at the time was also a fight venue, with Mel Greb promoting). At the time, the big name local fighters who appeared at the Hacienda were guys such as Ferd Hernandez, Johnnie Brooks, Freddie Little, and Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez. My parents went out that night to gamble, and left me and my brother Rob together in the room. Once they were gone, Rob and I were out the door and exploring the Hacienda, and a few other places within walking distance. There was a magic to Las Vegas back then. Man, all those lights. The Next day we left for home. All the kids had a blast. I recall driving in with about five other kids. We were all packed into an old Buick that belonged to a coach from the Valley, a black dude named "Owen". You must have been born somewhere around that time?

[THEHAMMER321]

Frank and Rick, I was born about 30 years to late 1967, but that doesn't stop me from being one of the most nostalgic people you will ever meet, I am intrigued mostly with history right after WWII , I hate when the people at these city council meetings start talking about refurbishing old communities and old buildings, I like everything the way it was, ''leave it alone'', as a teenager in Vegas I always hung out with ''oldtimers'' around pool halls in the downtown area, I loved to hear the stories of the way Vegas used to be before these clowns with business degrees started running it, the ''wise guys'' they told me knew how to treat people, they didn't need a textbook to know how to treat the customers they used common sense like ''treat people the way that they would like to be treated'' you could never go wrong with that, as far as a lot of those posters on the boxers of the past forum, a lot of them are what I call ''The class of 2000 guys'' they probably walk around with blackberry phones textmessaging everybody and there brother and thinking that the greatest fighter of all time is Roy Jones and Floydmayweather, me I would as my kids tell me,I just want to ''live in the past'' .

Living in the past?, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, depending on your take, the past is all some of us have. I was talking to Don Fraser and he was telling me that he doesn't like to live in the past, he said he like to think about the future, I then asked him how old he was, I knew how he old was, but I asked him to make a point, "I am 84 years old" said Don," Don", I said,"at 84, how much of a future do you think you have?", I then proceeded to tell him, "Don, you and I only have two things now, we have the past and today, today is our future, and if tomorrow comes for us, well, that's just a bonus....I think I left him thinking....

Paul . . . Here is a little irony. In June of 1967, a few coaches packed a group of Los Angeles Jr. Golden Glovers into a few cars and then drove us to Las Vegas to fight late on a saturday afternoon at an old dirt race track, where afterwards a "Destruction Derby" event would be held after the fights had ended. I fought a kid from Henderson, Nevada, and Frankie Baltazar Jr. fought a guy named Willie Jenson, who would later fight pro under the name of "Bird Legs". Albert Davila also fought, and I imagine the other Baltzazar boys, as well, but I can't remember. I know that Davila got the "Best Boxer" of the night trophy. We had arrived in town the night before, and we all slept at in a big room at an Elks Club, or something like that. Frank and the other coaches went out to McDonalds and brought back a car load of burgers, fries, etc. for us to eat. The next morning we all had a good breakfast before weighing in for the matches that were to be made. This was my first trip to Las Vegas, I was 15. I remember the LV. Strip, which was nothing like it is today. My mom and dad drove in to Las Vegas before the boxing event, and afterwards I left with them. I remember my parents had a room at the Hacienda (which at the time was also a fight venue, with Mel Greb promoting). At the time, the big name local fighters who appeared at the Hacienda were guys such as Ferd Hernandez, Johnnie Brooks, Freddie Little, and Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez. My parents went out that night to gamble, and left me and my brother Rob together in the room. Once they were gone, Rob and I were out the door and exploring the Hacienda, and a few other places within walking distance. There was a magic to Las Vegas back then. Man, all those lights. The Next day we left for home. Hey Frank, do you remember that trip we all made???

Rick, my dad came to Vegas in 1960 from New Orleans, he had worked in a after hours joint in New Orleans owned by Carlos Marcello as a dealer, but the pressure from the government became tough on Carlos Marcello, so he told my dad and other workers at the club where they worked,go down to Vegas I will make a call and you will have a job within a few days of getting there, so my dad jumped at the chance to work where gambling was legal, he ended up getting a job at the Riviera hotel, my dad was a boxing fan growing up in New Orleans, his favorite fighter who he talked about all the time was Bernard Docusen, he also new Ralph Dupas but he insisted Docusen was the much better fighter even though Dupas won a title and Bernard didn't, when my dad came here in the 1960s he and my uncle got to know Indian Red Lopez who fought often here at that time,also the big fights were not held in the casinos then,they were at The Las Vegas convention center, the smaller fights were held at the Fremont, Hacienda and a little later the Silver Slipper.

[THEHAMMER321]

Here's a link to a blog I started on the Simons brickyard, this might not be everybody's cup of tea, but some of you might want to join me on a trip back to my youth. if you so desire sign in and make any comments you like...

http://simonsbrickyard.blogspot.com/

Frank, maybe you can help, I went to this blog but it wouldn't let me post a comment, do I have to sign up for something ?

[CNorkusJr]

Paul, Frank or Rick,all. Maybe you guys can help me out with some information.
My father had boxing business with a fellow named Angelo Curley. Angelo was a New York guy who at the mid to later stages of his life moved to Las Vegas to continue in the boxing business. He is NOT to be confused with Artie Curley who was in Luis Resto's corner against Billy Collins. I do not know much about Angelo and his boxing business, and /or he may have been related to Artie Curley. (They are not the same man).Quite possibly he could have been a cornerman or trainer my father had for awhile, probably about 1957 in New York.
The last time I met Angelo Curley was about 1964,65 in lower Manhattan when his mother died, and I attended her wake with my mother and dad.There was no boxing talk taking place at that time. It was soon after that Angelo went to Vegas, or could have been there already. I am interested in knowing his business in the fight game. He was a bit older than my father, and would be probably be close to 100 yrs old now, most likely not with us.I dont know any boxers who he was associated with, or where he plied his trade in Vegas.Thanks for anything you might know about him or could find out-good or bad.

[kikibalt]

Here's a link to a blog I started on the Simons brickyard, this might not be everybody's cup of tea, but some of you might want to join me on a trip back to my youth. if you so desire sign in and make any comments you like...

http://simonsbrickyard.blogspot.com/

Frank, maybe you can help, I went to this blog but it wouldn't let me post a comment, do I have to sign up for something ?

Yes, I think you do have to sign in, go ahead and sign in...upper right...

[kikibalt]

Paul, Frank or Rick,all. Maybe you guys can help me out with some information.
My father had boxing business with a fellow named Angelo Curley. Angelo was a New York guy who at the mid to later stages of his life moved to Las Vegas to continue in the boxing business. He is NOT to be confused with Artie Curley who was in Luis Resto's corner against Billy Collins. I do not know much about Angelo and his boxing business, and /or he may have been related to Artie Curley. (They are not the same man).Quite possibly he could have been a cornerman or trainer my father had for awhile, probably about 1957 in New York.
The last time I met Angelo Curley was about 1964,65 in lower Manhattan when his mother died, and I attended her wake with my mother and dad.There was no boxing talk taking place at that time. It was soon after that Angelo went to Vegas, or could have been there already. I am interested in knowing his business in the fight game. He was a bit older than my father, and would be probably be close to 100 yrs old now, most likely not with us.I dont know any boxers who he was associated with, or where he plied his trade in Vegas.Thanks for anything you might know about him or could find out-good or bad.

Charlie, I have to be honest and say that I have never heard of Angelo Curley...

[Rick Farris]

Here's something for young Brits to chew on:
----------------------------------------------------
#1= Jimmy Wilde

By Sean Davies


Standing at just over five foot and weighing in at 100 pounds, Wilde possessed a phenomenal punch that earned him the label 'The Ghost with the Hammer in his Hand.'

He boxed himself out of the pits, and his knock-out skills in the boxing booths have developed legendary status.
His career stretched over 15 years and is thought to have included over 500 fights.

He had claimed the unofficial world title by stopping Joe Symonds in London on 14 February, 1916, and he defended that crown against Tancy Lee in June.

But it was not until he stopped Italian-American Young Zulu Kid in the 11th round in London that he was recognised officially as the world champion.

The Brooklyn man - also known as the "Fighting Newsboy" - was three inches shorter than Wilde, and could not match the Welshman's power or speed in a one-sided contest.

Wilde, born in Quaker's Yard near Merthyr Tydfil, served as a sergeant instructor in the Great War.

His reputation was largely cemented on the world flyweight champion's triumphant six-month tour of North America in 1919-20 - although he already had well over 100 fights to his name in Britain by that point and was probably past his best.

Wilde's success proved his downfall. Having beaten everyone at his weight, he had to take fights against much heavier men.

Wilde won 10 of those 11 bouts across the Atlantic, dropping just one newspaper decision in a "no-contest" clash with Jackie Sharkey.

The "Tylorstown Terror" returned to Britain, where his practice of fighting heavier men finally caught up with him against the excellent bantamweight Peter Herman.
Review of Jimmy Wilde's career and the Pete Herman bout

The American came in way over the agreed weight, but the Prince of Wales persuaded a reluctant Wilde to fight before a packed Royal Albert Hall.

The outgunned Welshman took a terrible beating that he never fully recovered from, the finale coming with a Herman punch in the 17th round that sent Wilde through the ropes and gave him severe concussion as his head cracked the ringside floor.

Pete Herman remembers Jimmy Wilde bout

This sent Wilde towards retirement, but two years later a huge purse of £13,000 and the prospect of another headline show across the Atlantic tempted him back to fight Pancho Villa.

The Philippino - real name Francisco Guilledo - is considered by many as the greatest Asian fighter of all time.

From 1919 he had cut a swathe through the flyweight division, starting in Manila before heading to the US in 1922.

What do you think of my rankings?

Wins over the likes of Johnny Buff and Abe Goldstein confirmed his fearsome reputation, but still Wilde chose to make the mistake of so many ageing champions, believing he still had the goods to handle the popular young challenger.

In front of over 20,000 fervent fans, 31-year-old Wilde opened with his usual aggressive style, but he found that Villa was taking his blows and returning them with interest.

At the end of the second, the heavy-punching 22-year-old caught Wilde after he had already heard the bell with a blow that left him concussed.

The great trainer Ray Arcel, watching from ringside after working on the undercard, had been impressed by Wilde's early form and felt that his corner men should have cried foul after Villa's blow.

Arcel believed that a disqualification may have resulted, and at least Wilde would have been given more time to recover.

Wilde made a misguided comeback against the great Pancho Villa
The Welshman somehow came out for the third, taking a fearful beating before being stopped in the seventh with a brutal knock-out combination.

He lost his memory afterwards, and did not recognise his wife for three weeks.

The bout was officially Wilde's fourth loss from 149 encounters, but it is thought that if his booth encounters are included he may have fought more than 1,000 times.

He went into business with a cinema chain, made regular television appearances, and wrote a column for the News of the World.

Wilde was inducted into the World Boxing Hall of Fame in 1959 and the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990, and Villa would later join him in both institutions.

But the story of one of Wales' true sporting greats has a tragic end.

He was mugged on a Cardiff railway platform in 1965 and spent his last four years in Whitchurch Hospital, dying at the age of 76

[Rick Farris]

Paul, Frank or Rick,all. Maybe you guys can help me out with some information.
My father had boxing business with a fellow named Angelo Curley. Angelo was a New York guy who at the mid to later stages of his life moved to Las Vegas to continue in the boxing business. He is NOT to be confused with Artie Curley who was in Luis Resto's corner against Billy Collins. I do not know much about Angelo and his boxing business, and /or he may have been related to Artie Curley. (They are not the same man).Quite possibly he could have been a cornerman or trainer my father had for awhile, probably about 1957 in New York.
The last time I met Angelo Curley was about 1964,65 in lower Manhattan when his mother died, and I attended her wake with my mother and dad.There was no boxing talk taking place at that time. It was soon after that Angelo went to Vegas, or could have been there already. I am interested in knowing his business in the fight game. He was a bit older than my father, and would be probably be close to 100 yrs old now, most likely not with us.I dont know any boxers who he was associated with, or where he plied his trade in Vegas.Thanks for anything you might know about him or could find out-good or bad.

Charlie, I have to be honest and say that I have never heard of Angelo Curley...

Charlie . . . I have heard the name Angelo Curley, but it was from a long time ago and I can't tell you anything about him. Seems I read the name in boxing magazines from long ago, but can't say for sure.

[Rick Farris]

Living in the past?, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, depending on your take, the past is all some of us have. I was talking to Don Fraser and he was telling me that he doesn't like to live in the past, he said he like to think about the future, I then asked him how old he was, I knew how he old was, but I asked him to make a point, "I am 84 years old" said Don," Don", I said,"at 84, how much of a future do you think you have?", I then proceeded to tell him, "Don, you and I only have two things now, we have the past and today, today is our future, and if tomorrow comes for us, well, that's just a bonus....I think I left him thinking....

Paul . . . Here is a little irony. In June of 1967, a few coaches packed a group of Los Angeles Jr. Golden Glovers into a few cars and then drove us to Las Vegas to fight late on a saturday afternoon at an old dirt race track, where afterwards a "Destruction Derby" event would be held after the fights had ended. I fought a kid from Henderson, Nevada, and Frankie Baltazar Jr. fought a guy named Willie Jenson, who would later fight pro under the name of "Bird Legs". Albert Davila also fought, and I imagine the other Baltzazar boys, as well, but I can't remember. I know that Davila got the "Best Boxer" of the night trophy. We had arrived in town the night before, and we all slept at in a big room at an Elks Club, or something like that. Frank and the other coaches went out to McDonalds and brought back a car load of burgers, fries, etc. for us to eat. The next morning we all had a good breakfast before weighing in for the matches that were to be made. This was my first trip to Las Vegas, I was 15. I remember the LV. Strip, which was nothing like it is today. My mom and dad drove in to Las Vegas before the boxing event, and afterwards I left with them. I remember my parents had a room at the Hacienda (which at the time was also a fight venue, with Mel Greb promoting). At the time, the big name local fighters who appeared at the Hacienda were guys such as Ferd Hernandez, Johnnie Brooks, Freddie Little, and Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez. My parents went out that night to gamble, and left me and my brother Rob together in the room. Once they were gone, Rob and I were out the door and exploring the Hacienda, and a few other places within walking distance. There was a magic to Las Vegas back then. Man, all those lights. The Next day we left for home. Hey Frank, do you remember that trip we all made???

Rick, my dad came to Vegas in 1960 from New Orleans, he had worked in a after hours joint in New Orleans owned by Carlos Marcello as a dealer, but the pressure from the government became tough on Carlos Marcello, so he told my dad and other workers at the club where they worked,go down to Vegas I will make a call and you will have a job within a few days of getting there, so my dad jumped at the chance to work where gambling was legal, he ended up getting a job at the Riviera hotel, my dad was a boxing fan growing up in New Orleans, his favorite fighter who he talked about all the time was Bernard Docusen, he also new Ralph Dupas but he insisted Docusen was the much better fighter even though Dupas won a title and Bernard didn't, when my dad came here in the 1960s he and my uncle got to know Indian Red Lopez who fought often here at that time,also the big fights were not held in the casinos then,they were at The Las Vegas convention center, the smaller fights were held at the Fremont, Hacienda and a little later the Silver Slipper.

Paul . . . After Frank & Don Fraser inducted Bernard Docusen into the CBHOF, I put his name up for posthumous induction into the WBHOF, and in 2010 he was going to be inducted. There was no WBHOF event held in 2010, so Docusen will be inducted in 2011, along with Tiger Jack Fox, the other posthumous inductee. I have heard nothing but good things about Docusen. He was a young professional who lost only 10 of more than 90 pro fights. He gave Sugar Ray Robinson a good go in a welterweight title fight, and retired in his mid-20's. Bernard Docusen was a man of charactor and class, a kind man who was loved by all.

[kikibalt]

Las Vegas, 1967 . . .

Paul . . . Here is a little irony. On a friday afternoon in June of 1967, a few coaches packed a group of Los Angeles Jr. Golden Glovers into a cars and then drove us to Las Vegas. We were going to fight late on saturday afternoon at an old dirt race track, where afterwards a "Destruction Derby" event would be held after the fights had ended. I fought a kid from Henderson, Nevada, and Frankie Baltazar Jr. fought a guy named Willie Jenson, who would later fight pro under the ring name of "Bird Legs". Albert Davila also fought, and I think Tony and Bobby Baltazar fought as well, but I can't remember. I know that Davila got the "Best Boxer" of the night trophy. We had arrived in town the night before, and we all slept at in a big room at an Elks Club, or something like that. Frank and the other coaches went out to McDonalds and brought back a car load of burgers, fries, etc. for us to eat. The next morning we all had a good breakfast before weighing in for the matches that were to be made. This was my first trip to Las Vegas, I was 15. I remember the LV. Strip, which was nothing like it is today. My mom and dad drove in to Las Vegas before the boxing event, and afterwards I left with them. I remember my parents had a room at the Hacienda (which at the time was also a fight venue, with Mel Greb promoting). At the time, the big name local fighters who appeared at the Hacienda were guys such as Ferd Hernandez, Johnnie Brooks, Freddie Little, and Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez. My parents went out that night to gamble, and left me and my brother Rob together in the room. Once they were gone, Rob and I were out the door and exploring the Hacienda, and a few other places within walking distance. There was a magic to Las Vegas back then. Man, all those lights. The Next day we left for home. All the kids had a blast. I recall driving in with about five other kids. We were all packed into an old Buick that belonged to a coach from the Valley, a black dude named "Owen". You must have been born somewhere around that time?

Rick, I remember that trip, just not sure what year it was, I was thinking more like '69's, not sure, but anyway all three of my boys fought that nite, Frankie lost to Bird legs, Bobby lost to the young Davila boy, and Tony, after 37 wins with out a lost, lost his first fight, as you can see, not a great nite for the Baltazar's... . The McDonalds thing was set up by a young guy, we were all young then.. , anyway this guy, I can't remember his name, he worked at a McDonalds in L.A., that's how he was able to set up our lunch in L.V.. He was not a boxing guy per se, he was working with Louie J. at the Teamsters Boys Club trying to learn boxing, sadly, he died at age 27 not long afterward. Also on that trip was Pete Avalos who at that time was the trainer of Rudy "Porky" Acuna, Pete rode with me and the boys in my '63 Chevy Super Sport..

[Rick Farris]

Hey Paul . . .

I forwarded your post regarding Bernard Docusen to his daughter Patricia.
The Docusen's are a close knit family and I know they will appreciate reading your words regarding their father.
I know she will respond, and when she does, I'll post it here.

[Rick Farris]

Las Vegas, 1967 . . .

Paul . . . Here is a little irony. On a friday afternoon in June of 1967, a few coaches packed a group of Los Angeles Jr. Golden Glovers into a cars and then drove us to Las Vegas. We were going to fight late on saturday afternoon at an old dirt race track, where afterwards a "Destruction Derby" event would be held after the fights had ended. I fought a kid from Henderson, Nevada, and Frankie Baltazar Jr. fought a guy named Willie Jenson, who would later fight pro under the ring name of "Bird Legs". Albert Davila also fought, and I think Tony and Bobby Baltazar fought as well, but I can't remember. I know that Davila got the "Best Boxer" of the night trophy. We had arrived in town the night before, and we all slept at in a big room at an Elks Club, or something like that. Frank and the other coaches went out to McDonalds and brought back a car load of burgers, fries, etc. for us to eat. The next morning we all had a good breakfast before weighing in for the matches that were to be made. This was my first trip to Las Vegas, I was 15. I remember the LV. Strip, which was nothing like it is today. My mom and dad drove in to Las Vegas before the boxing event, and afterwards I left with them. I remember my parents had a room at the Hacienda (which at the time was also a fight venue, with Mel Greb promoting). At the time, the big name local fighters who appeared at the Hacienda were guys such as Ferd Hernandez, Johnnie Brooks, Freddie Little, and Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez. My parents went out that night to gamble, and left me and my brother Rob together in the room. Once they were gone, Rob and I were out the door and exploring the Hacienda, and a few other places within walking distance. There was a magic to Las Vegas back then. Man, all those lights. The Next day we left for home. All the kids had a blast. I recall driving in with about five other kids. We were all packed into an old Buick that belonged to a coach from the Valley, a black dude named "Owen". You must have been born somewhere around that time?

Rick, I remember that trip, just not sure what year it was, I was thinking more like '69's, not sure, but anyway all three of my boys fought that nite, Frankie lost to Bird legs, Bobby lost to the young Davila boy, and Tony, after 37 wins with out a lost, lost his first fight, as you can see, not a great nite for the Baltazar's... . The McDonalds thing was set up by a young guy, we were all young then.. , anyway this guy, I can't remember his name, he worked at a McDonalds in L.A., that's how he was able to set up our lunch in L.V.. He was not a boxing guy per se, he was working with Louie J. at the Teamsters Boys Club trying to learn boxing, sadly, he died at age 27 not long afterward. Also on that trip was Pete Avalos who at that time was the trainer of Rudy "Porky" Acuna, Pete rode with me and the boys in my '63 Chevy Super Sport..

It was '67 Frank. I know that for sure, I was 15.
In 1969, I was already fighting as a licensed amateur, and competed in the National GG's tourney in Kansas City, and the Nat'l AAU tourney in San Diego, both shortly after my 17th birthday. By the way, Albert Davila's younger brother's name was Armando. I remember Pete Avalos too.

[kikibalt]

Las Vegas, 1967 . . .

Paul . . . Here is a little irony. On a friday afternoon in June of 1967, a few coaches packed a group of Los Angeles Jr. Golden Glovers into a cars and then drove us to Las Vegas. We were going to fight late on saturday afternoon at an old dirt race track, where afterwards a "Destruction Derby" event would be held after the fights had ended. I fought a kid from Henderson, Nevada, and Frankie Baltazar Jr. fought a guy named Willie Jenson, who would later fight pro under the ring name of "Bird Legs". Albert Davila also fought, and I think Tony and Bobby Baltazar fought as well, but I can't remember. I know that Davila got the "Best Boxer" of the night trophy. We had arrived in town the night before, and we all slept at in a big room at an Elks Club, or something like that. Frank and the other coaches went out to McDonalds and brought back a car load of burgers, fries, etc. for us to eat. The next morning we all had a good breakfast before weighing in for the matches that were to be made. This was my first trip to Las Vegas, I was 15. I remember the LV. Strip, which was nothing like it is today. My mom and dad drove in to Las Vegas before the boxing event, and afterwards I left with them. I remember my parents had a room at the Hacienda (which at the time was also a fight venue, with Mel Greb promoting). At the time, the big name local fighters who appeared at the Hacienda were guys such as Ferd Hernandez, Johnnie Brooks, Freddie Little, and Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez. My parents went out that night to gamble, and left me and my brother Rob together in the room. Once they were gone, Rob and I were out the door and exploring the Hacienda, and a few other places within walking distance. There was a magic to Las Vegas back then. Man, all those lights. The Next day we left for home. All the kids had a blast. I recall driving in with about five other kids. We were all packed into an old Buick that belonged to a coach from the Valley, a black dude named "Owen". You must have been born somewhere around that time?

Rick, I remember that trip, just not sure what year it was, I was thinking more like '69's, not sure, but anyway all three of my boys fought that nite, Frankie lost to Bird legs, Bobby lost to the young Davila boy, and Tony, after 37 wins with out a lost, lost his first fight, as you can see, not a great nite for the Baltazar's... . The McDonalds thing was set up by a young guy, we were all young then.. , anyway this guy, I can't remember his name, he worked at a McDonalds in L.A., that's how he was able to set up our lunch in L.V.. He was not a boxing guy per se, he was working with Louie J. at the Teamsters Boys Club trying to learn boxing, sadly, he died at age 27 not long afterward. Also on that trip was Pete Avalos who at that time was the trainer of Rudy "Porky" Acuna, Pete rode with me and the boys in my '63 Chevy Super Sport..

It was '67 Frank. I know that for sure, I was 15.
In 1969, I was already fighting as a licensed amateur, and competed in the National GG's tourney in Kansas City, and the Nat'l AAU tourney in San Diego, both shortly after my 17th birthday. By the way, Albert Davila's younger brother's name was Armando. I remember Pete Avalos too.

Either way, it was a fun trip, though my boys lost they all had a great time in Vegas, first time for them in Vegas...

[raylawpc]

Paul, Frank or Rick,all. Maybe you guys can help me out with some information.
My father had boxing business with a fellow named Angelo Curley. Angelo was a New York guy who at the mid to later stages of his life moved to Las Vegas to continue in the boxing business. He is NOT to be confused with Artie Curley who was in Luis Resto's corner against Billy Collins. I do not know much about Angelo and his boxing business, and /or he may have been related to Artie Curley. (They are not the same man).Quite possibly he could have been a cornerman or trainer my father had for awhile, probably about 1957 in New York.
The last time I met Angelo Curley was about 1964,65 in lower Manhattan when his mother died, and I attended her wake with my mother and dad.There was no boxing talk taking place at that time. It was soon after that Angelo went to Vegas, or could have been there already. I am interested in knowing his business in the fight game. He was a bit older than my father, and would be probably be close to 100 yrs old now, most likely not with us.I dont know any boxers who he was associated with, or where he plied his trade in Vegas.Thanks for anything you might know about him or could find out-good or bad.

Charlie, I have to be honest and say that I have never heard of Angelo Curley...

Charlie . . . I have heard the name Angelo Curley, but it was from a long time ago and I can't tell you anything about him. Seems I read the name in boxing magazines from long ago, but can't say for sure.

Charlie, as I recall Angelo Curley was associated with the Fullmer brothers. I believe he trained the Fullmers whenever they came out to the East Coast for fights.