Haye in very positive talks with Povetkin

[Dioufy]

My idea of a chinny fighter is someone who gets knocked down often by innocuous shots but always gets up. Tito springs to mind. When Katsidis gets floored he stays floored as the knockdowns usually come after a few rounds of him getting spanked senseless.

Katsidis was winning against Earl, no one was getting spanked in the first minute of the Casamayor fight, so it's only the Marquez fight were he was getting beat. To me, that's being harsh, because you're stating that the Kat only gets spanked after being spanked a few rounds before it, when it only happened with Marquez.

Katsidis was stopped on his feet against Marquez, I don't think he was knocked down at all in that fight if my memory serves me.

Even more evidence against the theory that Katsidis only gets floored when he's been "spanked" a few rounds before.

[Horse]

If Khan and Harrison aren't chinny then nobody is.

[Dioufy]

Kat looked strong against Earl after being put down? I was 20 feet away and his legs were everywhere. Look for it on YouTube, and you'll see what I mean. I also looked dead into his eyes, and they weren't correct by any means. Before responding, please watch that clip again, mate, because he wasn't strong at all.

[Dioufy]

Kat looked strong against Earl after being put down? I was 20 feet away and his legs were everywhere. Look for it on YouTube, and you'll see what I mean. I also looked dead into his eyes, and they weren't correct by any means. Before responding, please watch that clip again, mate, because he wasn't strong at all.

So did the ref, he gave him the standing eight and Kat was on the front foot again within seconds, more circumspect but I'd say he regained his strength as they did not have to prop him up with a stick for the remaining 1:30ish of the session. He recovered quite quickly.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but he was hurt. He did some silly dance forward and nearly bumped into Earl - I remember Earl looking about because he wasn't sure what was happening. Kat's powers of recovery are awesome, but that's a different subject. Regardless of how quick Kat recovered, he was still hurt.

[Dioufy]

A standing 8-count? Kat's gloved touched the floor, so therefore it wasn't a standing 8-count.

[Dioufy]

Yes, but my original point was that he looked strong afterwards, and he did. He did not spend the rest of the round on an IV drip. He was still forceful.

I don't think I've ever disputed that, mate. Anyhow, I made my point, that Kat was hurt, and after watching it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JPnZtZu1RI - I stand by that.

[alexpaterson]

Poverkin will be a good fight for Haye, I think Poverkin will cause a lot of problems because he is a little, fast and reasonably fit Heavyweight who will give it a go and is a really good fighter IMO.

[Finn]

I think Audley would fight Klitchsko in a heart beat - but would put on a pathetic display.

I can't remember who on this board said it, but they said if Harrison had fought one of the Klitschkos, he likely would have lasted 8-10 rounds (as does everybody) and would have come out of it with people praising his bravery!

Yeah i said the same thing but saw that quite a few people had also posted the same opinion.

I think the pace they fight at would have been a better fight for audley, he needs to warm into a fight and not have to worry about flurries of punches. And everyone lasts a decent number of rounds with the klits.

[THEBUTCH]

Harrison is chinny even at a low level. He was at an age where he had matured , where as Khan was very much developing and growing when he ran into some of his patchy moments, but still came through. The same fighters like Limmond and Gomez wouldn't trouble him at all now. If Khan is chinny, it's at world class level. Not novice level like Harrison is.

[THEBUTCH]

The light punching novice Krence, rank novice Barrett, oft beaten cruiserweight Matthew Ellis....and the point being Harrison shites himself at the mere suggestion of a punch coming his way, so he's getting rocked whilst doing everything he can to avoid taking a shot. If he took a few risks the stoppages would happen more regularly.

Hardly Margarito is he? Who puts his chin to the test every time against world class bangers.

[THEBUTCH]

Ellis was another cherry plucked from A-Farce's tree of no hopers to try and create the illusion Harrison was more than just a domestic force. Audley ain't dumb, he fooled a lot of people with his expert matchmaking (me included at times). If Afarce didn't feel in danger when the aforementioned rocked him, he wouldn't have had to take evasive action.

Harrison has got a reasonable defence and couple this with the fact he's petrified to take a shot it limits the clean blows landing...and limits the stoppages.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Ellis was another cherry plucked from A-Farce's tree of no hopers to try and create the illusion Harrison was more than just a domestic force. Audley ain't dumb, he fooled a lot of people with his expert matchmaking (me included at times). If Afarce didn't feel in danger when the aforementioned rocked him, he wouldn't have had to take evasive action.

Harrison has got a reasonable defence and couple this with the fact he's petrified to take a shot it limits the clean blows landing...and limits the stoppages.

He blinked, adjusted himself and boxed conservatively. It looked similar to Lewis-Shannon to me as people claim Lennox was rocked to his ancestors in that one but it looked more a case of the speed taking him by surprise.

Harrison has campaigned at heavy his whole career and his defence is not as good as you maintain. He'd have been KO'd more often if he was out-and-out chinny. He's no McCall, but he's no Patterson.

Harrison never fought no Sonny Liston - well, except for the Dutch one!

[Cyclops]

Got bored reading the usual pointless arguing about who is chinny or not. Good fight though, if it comes off. A very good match up. Hope it happens.

[keithmoonhangover]

Got bored reading the usual pointless arguing about who is chinny or not. Good fight though, if it comes off. A very good match up. Hope it happens.

x2

[oliverfennell]

Harrison is chinny. A fighter isn't chinny just because EVERY shot doesn't knock him out. Khan's still chinny, but he can take a half-decent shot, like most percieved chinny fighters. Katsidis is chinny, but just because EVERY shot doesn't knock him doesn't change that perception.

None of those guys are chinny. OK, I can hear the argument about Harrison and his style reducing the likelihood of getting knocked down, but still I'd say 32 heavyweight fights against a decent - if not top class (aside from Haye) - with only two stoppage losses and three knockdowns is hardly bad form in the whiskers department.

I would have agreed about Khan until recently. You could put the Prescott loss down to a poor strategy against a known puncher, but his knockdowns by light punchers and superfeatherweights on the way up were worrying. But his display against Maidana more than redeemed him IMO and lent credence to the suggestion he was previously vulnerable due to weight-making.

And Katsidis?? If the argument re. Harrison is that he masks a poor chin with his defensive tactics, what on earth is the argument for Katsidis being chinny? He leads with his face and gets hit way more than he should. By rights he should have a host of knockdowns to his debit.

You say Harrison isn't chinny, now you say Khan isn't chinny, then the Kat. Tell me apart from Wlad K which fighter decent fighter is chinny. Every percieved fighter takes decent shots, like Enzo Macc against Braithwaite or Hobson, just like Katssidis did against Marquez, just like Khan did against Maidana. But ultimately that chin lets them down in the end. A fighter is chinny to me not because EVERY half-decent shot knocks him over, but because you know that a half-decent shot might knock him out. Like Enzo against Swaby/wobbled badly against Hobson, Khan against Prescott, Katsidis against Earl/an earlier fight where he was wobbled by a half-cuffing shot/Casamayor in the first minute. It's a difficult one to call, because if we go by your standards, not many fighters are chinny. Perhaps I'm a little tougher than you in my opinion, but to me, one fight were a fighter takes decent shots doesn't automatically tell me he's grown a chin - one swallow doesn't make a summer, mate. It's even the same about Haye - if he fought the best available at heavy then his chin will let him down. Again with Khan - I'd bet my life that that chin will get exposed again, because the twit is still chinny, regardless of the Maidana fight. It may have improved with the weight, ala Haye, but it's still fragile - check Khan's chicken dance at the end of the 10th, or the way his legs just left him when he was hurt.

IMO.

Decent fighters who are chinny... as you say, not many by our standards. I definitely would have said Khan before, but my opinion has been redressed. For sure he'll remain vulnerable through his career, but I'm quite sure a "chinny" boxer would not have endured that 10th round assault from Maidana. I don't think being rocked, but not floored, by a big puncher - especially at world level - is evidence of a poor chin. If it was, then you could even add the likes of Tyson and Duran to the list.

Anyway, to your question, I submit Danny Williams and Herbie Hide. Most people will agree with me on the latter, but Williams often gets a bye because of his bravery. But brave or not (and undeniably he is), that doesn't paper over the fact his knockdowns-against tally is well into double figures, and he's been badly staggered innumerable times - and not always against the best of opposition.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Got bored reading the usual pointless arguing about who is chinny or not.

It's a boxing forum for Christs sakes! It is like saying you're bored of the arguing even though you are sat through watching a 'Judge Judy' omnibus!

[Dioufy]

Khan's conditioning and heart got him though that 10th, not his chin, IMO.

[Finn]

Got bored reading the usual pointless arguing about who is chinny or not.

It's a boxing forum for Christs sakes! It is like saying you're bored of the arguing even though you are sat through watching a 'Judge Judy' omnibus!

[lefty]

Got bored reading the usual pointless arguing about who is chinny or not.

It's a boxing forum for Christs sakes! It is like saying you're bored of the arguing even though you are sat through watching a 'Judge Judy' omnibus!

judge judy,that was some good s£$t back in the day

[Final round]

Have these positive talks developed into something a bit more concrete? ....I dunno like some ink anywhere near legally binding papers on the horizon?

[oliverfennell]

Khan's conditioning and heart got him though that 10th, not his chin, IMO.

Even the fittest fighter in the world will go down if he's got a poor chin.

[Dioufy]

Khan's conditioning and heart got him though that 10th, not his chin, IMO.

Even the fittest fighter in the world will go down if he's got a poor chin.

But surely you know what I mean? It wasn't as if he wasn't hurt, because he was - I still recall that walk back to the corner, if I can call it a walk. To me, if Khan was with anyone other than Freddie and Ariza then he gets stopped in that 10th. He's still got a bad chin, and to say otherwise because he got through ONE fight is ludicrous.

It'll need to be tested more to change my mind completely, but I will admit that it has improved, but it's not exactly as if he's bought a new one off eBay. If Limond and Gomez can hurt him badly then so can a PROVEN bit hitter. Maidana is a percieved murderous puncher, but I am yet to be fully convinced. Big, yes, concussive, unsure.

More wild then anything, IMO.

[Dioufy]

Also, Oli, let get hypothetical. If Herbie Hide got a shot at Enzo Macc a few years ago and took massive shots but pinched a decision would you then be convinced he wasn't chinny? I may be more harsh, but before I make my mind up about something COMPLETELY it takes more than one performance.

It's too easy to jump on the band-wagon of something otherwise.

[oliverfennell]

Well, punch resistance is not something that can be switched on and off. Perhaps we should see the evidence of more than one fight, but how to explain that one fight? How does a chinny boxer survive against Maidana?

Could well be that Maidana's power is overrated, but it's certainly no worse than Limond and Drilzane, is it?

[Dioufy]

Well, punch resistance is not something that can be switched on and off?

That is what I'm saying. Khan is chinny - it's improved but it's still what it is. Do you not agree with that?