Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Randyman]

A young Jackie McCoy

Frank, thanks for posting these photos of Jackie McCoy. I know you knew him well. My father always had a lot of respect for Jackie, always thought that he was one of the best trainers around. Jackie was well respected but I always thought he was vastly underrated as a trainer. He never got the accolades of trainers like Manny Steward, Angelo Dundee or Eddie Futch. He was deserving of it. Maybe you or Rick can tell us a little more about him. He always struck me as the epitome of a stand up guy.

[Randyman]

Left to right: Auto racer Barney Oldfield, Speedy Dado & James J. Jeffries

Looks like this picture was taken at Jeffries Barn? I never saw the barn when it stood near my home in Burbank, as I was only two-years-old when it was taken apart and reconstructed as a "California historical building" at Knott's Berry Farm. I had planned to visit Knott's one day and take a photo of the barn as it looks today, however, I was told that it no longer on the site? If so, I believe somebody is in violation of California law, as it has been listed as a historical building. I will check this out, but I don't know when I will have the time to do so. Tom, have you heard anything of the building being removed from the site?

Yes, I think that photo was taken at the Barn. I think the Barn is still at Knott's Berry Farm. I saw a recent picture of it dated 2010 on a website recently.

Jeri and I might take the grandkids to Knott's later this year. I'll make a beeline for the barn and take some photos. I've seen the barn before but never knew about the Jeffries connection.

[Randyman]

Frank, you've been posting some good classic photos the last few days. You always come up with some good stuff!

[Randyman]

Roberto Duran vs Aaron Pryor

Debunking a common fallacy…………..

Almost without fail, whenever the subject of both Roberto Duran and Aaron Pryor comes up, Duran is almost always accused of purposely passing over the junior welterweights in order to avoid a showdown with Aaron Pryor. But the truth is when Roberto Duran moved up in weight to fight Edwin Viruet in April of 1978, it was Antonio Cervantes who held the junior welterweight title. Pryor would eventually challenge Cervantes for that title in August of 1980, almost two and a half years after the Duran vs. Viruet fight, stopping Cervantes in the 4th round.

Prior (no pun intended) to winning the title against Cervantes, Aaron Pryor had not fought anyone of any real consequence and certainly no one of Duran’s caliber. At the time of the Duran vs Viruet fight, Aaron Pryor was undefeated in 12 fights with 10 KO’s to his name. A fine record for an up and coming fighter but hardly someone deserving of a fight with Roberto Duran, at least not in that era. Even with an amateur win over Detroit’s Tommy Hearns in 1976, Pryor would not even be an after thought as an opponent for Duran. Pryor’s claim to fame was his 14th round KO over three time champ Alexis Arguello in November of 1982. He would fight Arguello the following year stopping him in the 10th round.

Pryor, a fine fighter with an exciting style peaked with the Arguello fight and never in his career came close to being the type of fighter that Duran was. Pryor had six more fights after the second Arguello fight, all of them against mediocre to average competition.

Roberto Duran was the reigning lightweight champ for almost seven years before moving up in weight and setting his sights on the welterweight crown. Duran ended the 70’s with fights against Viruet, Ezequiel Obando, Monroe Brooks, Jimmy Heair, Carlos Palomino and Zeffie Gonzalez. In the case of Viruet, Heair and Brooks, Duran was fighting better than average competition, and in Palomino’s case he was fighting an outstanding former welterweight champion. In his previous fight earlier that year, Palomino lost the welterweight title to the great Wilfredo Benitez by a 15 round split decision. It was Duran’s win over Carlos Palomino that showed he was a real threat to the welterweights.

So the question remains, who would win?

Physically, they match up well, Pryor standing 5’6” ½ , Duran at 5”7’ a ½ inch taller, but for me this is a no brainer. Duran, a natural lightweight might have lost some of his KO power when he moved up in weight, especially when he moved up to the middleweights, but he would have been right at home as a junior welterweight. Pryor was street tough and aggressive. Duran was feral, savage and primal in his approach. Both fighters could be relentless but Duran had bigger arsenal to draw from. Overall, Roberto Duran was a fundamentally better fighter.

Duran was no one hit wonder and his career record will back me up. He is in the top five of almost anyone’s all time great list and certainly in the top ten. Counter punching was the key to defeating Pryor and Duran was a great albeit vastly underrated counter puncher. Duran had angles and was great on the inside. He had too much experience for Pryor. Duran was a well schooled fighter with perhaps the greatest cornermen of all time working in his corner, Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown, Panama Lewis would be in Pryor’s corner. There is no such thing as a sure thing, I know that but I believe Duran had too much going for him.

Duran beat Ken Buchanan to win the WBA World Lightweight Championship at the Madison Square Garden in New York in 1972. In 1980, at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal, Quebec Duran lifted the welterweight crown from Sugar Ray Leonard in a hard fought and exciting 15 rounds unanimous decision. After the disastrous rematch with Leonard (I can hardly utter the words) and following a dark period in his career, including a 15 round unanimous decision loss to Wilfredo Benitez, Duran rebounded with a win over Pipino Cuevas, winning by a 4th round KO and securing a title fight with junior middleweight Davey Moore. Duran would outclass and out fight the game but overmatched champion Davey Moore in 8 rounds.

Later that year, 1983 Duran would face Marvelous Marvin Hagler for the middleweight title, losing a closer than expected unanimous 12 round decision. It was fight that brought out all of Duran’s crafty experience. Duran would be knocked out the following year for the first time in his career by fellow legendary fighter Tommy “Hit man” Hearns. For the next several years Duran would have inconsistent success against mostly inferior opponents, including a split decision loss to Marvin Hagler’s half brother Robbie Simms.

In 1989 Duran would once again fight for a world title, facing the ever tough fighter from the Bronx, New York, Iran Barkley in Atlantic City, New Jersey for the WBC Middleweight title. It was a close back and forth fight that saw Duran enduring some great punching by Barkley and drawing upon his experience to knockdown Barkley in the 11th round and securing a split decision win from the judges. This would be Duran’s last great fight.

Aaron Pryor would beat both Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello. The first fight with Arguello was named the fight of the decade by Ring Magazine and is considered one of the classic fights of the 1980’s. Despite fighting many good fighters during his career, in 40 fights in a 14 year career these are the only truly meaningful names on his resume. One, Cervantes, a near great, the other, Arguello, an all time great champion. Juxtaposed against Roberto Duran, whose career records reads like a classic boxing hall of fame roster, Pryor pales in comparison. It’s true that anything can happen in boxing and on any given night any fighter can win or lose, that’s been proven again and again over the years. Still if I had to pick a winner between Duran and Pryor, on their best night, I would pick Duran. When Duran was Duran he was unbeatable.

[THEHAMMER321]

Roberto Duran vs Aaron Pryor

Debunking a common fallacy…………..

Almost without fail, whenever the subject of both Roberto Duran and Aaron Pryor comes up, Duran is almost always accused of purposely passing over the junior welterweights in order to avoid a showdown with Aaron Pryor. But the truth is when Roberto Duran moved up in weight to fight Edwin Viruet in April of 1978, it was Antonio Cervantes who held the junior welterweight title. Pryor would eventually challenge Cervantes for that title in August of 1980, almost two and a half years after the Duran vs. Viruet fight, stopping Cervantes in the 4th round.

Prior (no pun intended) to winning the title against Cervantes, Aaron Pryor had not fought anyone of any real consequence and certainly no one of Duran’s caliber. At the time of the Duran vs Viruet fight, Aaron Pryor was undefeated in 12 fights with 10 KO’s to his name. A fine record for an up and coming fighter but hardly someone deserving of a fight with Roberto Duran, at least not in that era. Even with an amateur win over Detroit’s Tommy Hearns in 1976, Pryor would not even be an after thought as an opponent for Duran. Pryor’s claim to fame was his 14th round KO over three time champ Alexis Arguello in November of 1982. He would fight Arguello the following year stopping him in the 10th round.

Pryor, a fine fighter with an exciting style peaked with the Arguello fight and never in his career came close to being the type of fighter that Duran was. Pryor had six more fights after the second Arguello fight, all of them against mediocre to average competition.

Roberto Duran was the reigning lightweight champ for almost seven years before moving up in weight and setting his sights on the welterweight crown. Duran ended the 70’s with fights against Viruet, Ezequiel Obando, Monroe Brooks, Jimmy Heair, Carlos Palomino and Zeffie Gonzalez. In the case of Viruet, Heair and Brooks, Duran was fighting better than average competition, and in Palomino’s case he was fighting an outstanding former welterweight champion. In his previous fight earlier that year, Palomino lost the welterweight title to the great Wilfredo Benitez by a 15 round split decision. It was Duran’s win over Carlos Palomino that showed he was a real threat to the welterweights.

So the question remains, who would win?

Physically, they match up well, Pryor standing 5’6” ½ , Duran at 5”7’ a ½ inch taller, but for me this is a no brainer. Duran, a natural lightweight might have lost some of his KO power when he moved up in weight, especially when he moved up to the middleweights, but he would have been right at home as a junior welterweight. Pryor was street tough and aggressive. Duran was feral, savage and primal in his approach. Both fighters could be relentless but Duran had bigger arsenal to draw from. Overall, Roberto Duran was a fundamentally better fighter.

Duran was no one hit wonder and his career record will back me up. He is in the top five of almost anyone’s all time great list and certainly in the top ten. Counter punching was the key to defeating Pryor and Duran was a great albeit vastly underrated counter puncher. Duran had angles and was great on the inside. He had too much experience for Pryor. Duran was a well schooled fighter with perhaps the greatest cornermen of all time working in his corner, Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown, Panama Lewis would be in Pryor’s corner. There is no such thing as a sure thing, I know that but I believe Duran had too much going for him.

Duran beat Ken Buchanan to win the WBA World Lightweight Championship at the Madison Square Garden in New York in 1972. In 1980, at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal, Quebec Duran lifted the welterweight crown from Sugar Ray Leonard in a hard fought and exciting 15 rounds unanimous decision. After the disastrous rematch with Leonard (I can hardly utter the words) and following a dark period in his career, including a 15 round unanimous decision loss to Wilfredo Benitez, Duran rebounded with a win over Pipino Cuevas, winning by a 4th round KO and securing a title fight with junior middleweight Davey Moore. Duran would outclass and out fight the game but overmatched champion Davey Moore in 8 rounds.

Later that year, 1983 Duran would face Marvelous Marvin Hagler for the middleweight title, losing a closer than expected unanimous 12 round decision. It was fight that brought out all of Duran’s crafty experience. Duran would be knocked out the following year for the first time in his career by fellow legendary fighter Tommy “Hit man” Hearns. For the next several years Duran would have inconsistent success against mostly inferior opponents, including a split decision loss to Marvin Hagler’s half brother Robbie Simms.

In 1989 Duran would once again fight for a world title, facing the ever tough fighter from the Bronx, New York, Iran Barkley in Atlantic City, New Jersey for the WBC Middleweight title. It was a close back and forth fight that saw Duran enduring some great punching by Barkley and drawing upon his experience to knockdown Barkley in the 11th round and securing a split decision win from the judges. This would be Duran’s last great fight.

Aaron Pryor would beat both Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello. The first fight with Arguello was named the fight of the decade by Ring Magazine and is considered one of the classic fights of the 1980’s. Despite fighting many good fighters during his career, in 40 fights in a 14 year career these are the only truly meaningful names on his resume. One, Cervantes, a near great, the other, Arguello, an all time great champion. Juxtaposed against Roberto Duran, whose career records reads like a classic boxing hall of fame roster, Pryor pales in comparison. It’s true that anything can happen in boxing and on any given night any fighter can win or lose, that’s been proven again and again over the years. Still if I had to pick a winner between Duran and Pryor, on their best night, I would pick Duran. When Duran was Duran he was unbeatable.

Randy, you are right on there,Pryor would have been taylor made for Duran, I think in order to beat a peak Duran you would have to be a master boxer with a great chin,Pryor with his straight ahead style would have been counterpunched to death before being kayoed about the 7th round if he was lucky, and this coming from someone who bet the underdog Pryor in the first Arguello fight,I remember people talking about Pryor versus Ray Leonard also, and even though I was not a Ray Leonard fan, Pryor would not have had a chance.

[Randyman]

Randy, you are right on there,Pryor would have been taylor made for Duran, I think in order to beat a peak Duran you would have to be a master boxer with a great chin,Pryor with his straight ahead style would have been counterpunched to death before being kayoed about the 7th round if he was lucky, and this coming from someone who bet the underdog Pryor in the first Arguello fight,I remember people talking about Pryor versus Ray Leonard also, and even though I was not a Ray Leonard fan, Pryor would not have had a chance.

Paul, Pryor was one of those guys that we've talked about here before that kept his chin up when he threw punches. Duran would have capitalized on it.

[bennie]

Frankie Gavin always stood out. The slick, counterpunching southpaw from Birmingham boxed with a smile on his face as he went all the way to gold at the world amateur championships in the States in 2007 and a showdown with Mario Kindelan before one Amir Khan made his name beating the same man.
A pro since February 2009, "Funtime" Frankie has raced to the Irish light-welterweight title and a record of 8-0 (7) but he hasn't been smiling much this week as intended opponents fell out like skittles. This Saturday at York Hall, Frankie finally gets a match against Michael Lomax, a tall Essex southpaw who won an ABA title back in 2002 but who still has a lot of the amateur in him at 32. He's a lovely man, very game, and he won't let Gavin rest in there, but he's scrappy and lacks a big punch. Lomax won Prizefighter in 2008 and challenged Kell Brook for the British welterweight title a year later in Manchester and was outgunned and stopped in three rounds, although Brook can really whack.
Since then, Lomax has won two out of three to make it 17-3-1 (2) as a pro. He enjoys natural weight on Gavin but the 25-year-old Gavin has been filling out rapidly and his brawn should not be underestimated alongside his boxing brain, his natural speed and ability.
Gavin looks likely to box and punch his way to a smart decision.

[Rick Farris]

GREATEST BRITISH FIGHTERS OF ALL TIME
by John Bardelli


British fighters adorn the ranks of the pantheon of the greatest fighters of all time, irrespective of birth place or nationality, challenging for spots within the top twenty-five greatest in each division. From the ranks of those indomitable Brits, come representatives from each division --- heavyweight to paperweight, heralding from each decade from the 1800's through the decade of the 2010's into the beginning of still another decade commencing in 2011.

Consider, for example, that within the IBRO divisional top twenty rankings, one finds within the heavyweight rankings, Lennox Lewis ranked number 12 by IBRO, --- a ranking which I would never personally adhere to, considering that to secure that ranking Lennox Lewis had to be ranked higher than Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfied, Sam Langford, and notable other greats, whose names I will not go into at this time, including that of Joe Jeannette, for goodness sakes.

No English light-heavyweights were ranked within the IBRO rankings although an examination of the ring records of Len Harvey, Jock McAvoy, and Ruby Bob Fitzsimmons establishes just how great the company of light heavyweights were to exclude one such as a Len Harvey 111-(51)-13(2)-9 and a Jock McAvoy 132(88)-14(2)-1, stellar records, indeed, and records that are greater than those accomplished by fighters of the same ilk as Hamad, Hatton and Lennox Lewis

Bob Fitzsimmons --- and his place in boxing history defies description. Hailing from New Zealand and the United States, one needs to write a book to describe his contributions to boxing history and it is something I do not intend to embark upon within this brief essay. Suffice it to say, that it is sacrilege to mention Lewis, Hamad, or Hatton in the same breath as Bob Fitzsimmons whether discussing English greats or all-time great fighters. Fitzsimmons is rated and/or considered by many boxing historians as the pound for pound greatest fighter who ever lived. Enough said about Ruby Robert.

As super middleweights --- where do Joe Calzaghe, Nigel Benn, Michael Watson and Chris Eubank rate in terms of over-all greatness of moderns in comparison to Lewis, Hamad, and Hatton? Although each is a relatively modern fighter, for my money, all four rate superior to Hamad and Hatton. That leaves a comparison with Lennox Lewis. You can do your own evaluating and comparing of the respective careers of Calzaghe, Benn and Eubank with that of Lewis ... and draw your own conclusions. Hopefully, what is written hereafter will be helpful to the reader in his/her considerations.

Within the Middleweights, consider the careers of Randy Turpin, Frank Moody, Tommy Milligan, and Arthur Sadd as fighters who compiled impressionable records considering the caliber of opposition and the longevity of their respective careers. And for sure, we cannot forget Australian Les Darcy, taken by death at an early age, and the accomplishments and promise he exacted. For sure, each was greater and made more impact on English boxing history than that of either Hamad or Hatton. Again, Lewis having garnered the heavyweight crown makes it difficult to compare because of the prestige that comes with his having won the Heavyweight Championship of the World. However, as you will later see, the caliber of opposition Lewis had to go through to win the title was thin, wearing, and on the wane. Yet, one must give him credit for win the title he did despite other factors inclusive of quality of opposition.

Were each of these middleweights greater than heavyweight Lennox Lewis? Arguments can be made pro and con. Lewis is in the relative limelight as his career has only recently ended. We have a generation of sports writers and boxing fans who have no recall that Mike Weaver was once the Heavyweight Champion of the World. Although Art endures, Fame is both fickle and fleeting. Time will present formidable arguments to the all-around greatness of Lennox Lewis, I am sure.

Consider in the world of baseball, as another example. We have a generation of fans who know nothing of Ty Cobb and his diamond exploits. Nor do they have any comprehension of the greatness of Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays. They recall Mark McGuire's titanic homerun shots and consider that McGuire must have been the greatest power hitter in baseball when he shattered Roger Maris' 61 homeruns in a single season. Yet little do they know that Mickey Mantle's eight longest homeruns traveled greater distances than did Mark McGuire's longest homerun. In that same respect, the modern fan will point to the homerun exploits of Barry Bonds "far eclipsing" Babe Ruth's record of 714 homeruns. Yet, they have no idea of the live ball, the shortening of homerun fences, and lowering of baseball mounds, as all being contributory to favoring Bonds and the modern ball player in its emphasis on the "long ball." Yet they believe Bonds to be physically stronger than Ruth without being able to answer why Ruth hit, during his major league career, over 50 homeruns which traveled over 500 feet while Barry Bonds was never able to hit a 500 foot homerun.

It is the crush of history and the death of their own generation of opposition, and fans, and writers, coupled with the deterioration and loss of historical descriptions of their fights which has relegated Turpin, Moody, Milligan, and Sadd --- all to the scrap heap of history --- long forgotten warriors who, at one time held veritable positions equivalent to those of a Hamad, Hatton, or a Lewis, all whose recognition has been enhanced through the scope of television and video/film preservation.

Lewis, Hamad and Hatton have had the benefit of being exposed by the preservation of their fights on film and video. It is a rare treat or, indeed, often impossible, to be able to see Randy Turpin, Frank Moody, or Arthur Sadd, and as a consequence, one cannot fathom what these fighters brought into the ring in establishing the inimitable records that they were able to accomplish during their own days in the sun.

With all due respect, fans who were caught up in the emotion and hoopla of the breeze left by a Ricky Hatton, a Naseem Hamed or a Lennox Lewis, --- believing as they are entitled to so believe --- that these fighters, impressionable to eyes which have not touched greatness, were the elite heralding from that nation, are incapable of understanding the meaning of the creme de la creme of the fighters emanating from England and the United Kingdom and the lasting records which, when examined, simply leave one in awe in appreciation.

Consider that Hatton, Hamed and Lennox Lewis, fought a total of 128 combined fights during their respect careers, recording 105 combined knockouts in the process. Ted "Kid" Lewis' career as a welterweight saw Lewis go to post 234 times recording 80 knockouts in the process.

Ted "Kid" Lewis was thought to be great enough to enter the ring against non-other than Jack Dempsey had Lewis emerged victorious over Georges Carpentier in a 1922 encounter. We are left with the celluloid embers of Lewis, fighting as a middleweight, being stiffened laying on the canvas at the feet of the Orchard Man who, after experiencing some moments where it looked like Lewis might register a knockout, himself over Carpentier in their brilliant but brief encounter. Carpentier seized the moment when Lewis, like Jack Sharkey some 5 years later in July of 1927, took his eyes off a still lethal Jack Dempsey and paid the customary price ... that of being deposited on the canvas lying in a heap, in a couple of historical tidal reversals which may have changed the course of boxing history.

Ted "Kid" Lewis' accomplishments in the ring are virtually on par with any fighter who every entered the ring, British and non-British. Lewis won the British featherweight title while he was only 18 years old and later in that same year he added the European crown. He won world the welterweight title from Jack Britton in 1915. Before his career ended, he would fight Britton 20 times.

He added to his laurels Britain's middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight crowns, before challenging Dempsey and world light heavyweight (and European heavyweight) champion Georges Carpentier in 1922.

There is only one way to describe the indomitable Ted "Kid" Lewis --- he was a marvel of the ring, this Gershon Mendeloff, fearless in every aspect of the word as is evidenced by an examination of his record and the veritable list of opponents he fought, a significant number who are members of an elite Boxing Hall of Fame. In 1912, Lewis fought 39 fights, alone, nearly eclipsing the total number of fights engaged in by Hatton (47), Hamad (37), and Lennox Lewis (44) in their own respective careers.

To be sure, when one speaks about the number of fights engaged in by a fighter, one has to take into consideration the quality of opposition to lend meaning to sheer statistics standing on their own merit. I am not here to represent that Ted "Kid" Lewis was a greater fighter because of the sheer volume of activity in which he engaged during the course of a 20 year ring career (1909 - 1929). However, when one knows something about the opponents fought by Ted "Kid" Lewis including, as examples, Johnny Basham, Mike O'Dowd, Jack Britton, Augie Ratner, left-hook artist Charley White, Willie Ritchie, Soldier Bartfield, Mike Gibbons, Albert Badoud, Italian Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Georges Carpentier, Maxey Roosenbloom, Roland Todd, and Tommy Milligan --- and compares the opposition to those fought by Hatton, Hamad and Lennox Lewis, the opposition faced by Ted "Kid" Lewis stands eons above the quality of the chief opposition faced

by Hatton ---- Freddy Pendleton, Kostya Tszyu, Floyd Mayweather, Jr., Jose Luis Costillo and Manny Pacquiao;

and by Hamad --- Manuel Medina, Kevin Kelley, and Marco Barrera.

The best of the opposition faced by Lennox Lewis, when considered, reveals a washed up Donovan Ruddock, a washed up Frank Bruno, a viable but psychological distressed Oliver McCall, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Andrew Golota, Shannon Briggs, Hasim Rahman, Evander Holyfield, David Tua, a washed up Mike Tyson, and Vitali Klitshcko. Who in that mix presents Hall of Fame caliber opposition ---- Tyson and Holyfield. Some will argue for Klitshko's inclusion. I admire Lewis for going through these fighters in climbing to the top and defending his title once he got there. On any given night, the roof can cave in --- as it did in the McCall and Rahman fights. He redeemed himself valiantly and forcefully as a great fighter will do when the chips are on the line. To come back and prevail against a fighter who has inflicted a knockout is deserving of recognition as a major accomplishment. And Lewis is deserving of such recognition and nothing should be taken from him for what he did accomplish in that regard, those losses non-withstanding.

Inclusion of Ted "Kid" Lewis as the greatest welterweight heralding from England, leaves us with Jack "Kid"Berg, and Johnny Basham, vying for recognition for their storied careers as well.

Berg, "The Whitechapel Whirlwind," held in the highest esteem by his trainer, Ray Arcel, as one of the greatest fighters to have every entered the ring, by that endorsement alone certainly merits honors beyond those achieved by Hamad, Hatton and Lewis as the greatest to come out of England. True, Arcel did not see Hamad, Hatton, nor Lewis ply their trade within the ring. But one questions what it was that they did, on a comparison basis, that would lead Arcel to rank any of them beyond what he saw during his years as a trainer to Jack "Kid" Berg, years where Berg fought 192 fights, recording 61 KOs while losing but 26 fights.

Dropping down to the lightweight division, consider the ring career of Freddy Welsh and Lenny Wickwar, names not familiar to a generation of newborn boxing historians and fans alike. If there is no film footage or video perpetuation --- the younger fans in our midst cannot envision or relate to the greatness possessed by a fighter of an earlier era because their center of relativity surrounds only that which they have seen within the circle of their own lifetime --- anything else constitutes an invasion of the sanctity of their mind and opinion. This, in philosophical terms, is known as solipsism --- the essence being that knowledge of anything outside one's own specific mind is unjustified and cannot be known and might not exist.

It is unimaginable to the modern mind that Lenny Wickwar fought 465 fights! But he did ... and he did it in the course of a 19 year fight career meaning that he had to average 24 fights per year or two fights a month to accomplish the feat. But fight he did and, in compiling such a record --- just in terms of sheer volume of fights --- the feat merits inclusion into the category of greatness akin to the record of any fighter who ever stepped into the ring.

Moving into the echelons of the great featherweights ... let me direct you to a boxing historian hailing from England --- one of the greatest boxing writers on the planet, none other than Mike Casey, and let Mr. Casey expound upon the meaning of the word "great" when it comes down to defining two fighters hailing from England or the United Kingdom --- Young Griffo and Jem Driscoll. Young Griffo and Jem Driscoll. These two essays should be read and reread to garner a semblance of what it means to be a great fighter and any writing of Mr. Casey brings with it a measuring stick inclusive of the temper of the times.

Casey is a prodigious writer and is capable of bringing light to forgotten eras, perhaps like no writer I have ever read. Please do read them and when you come away from the treat that lies within ... ask yourself if you think that Hamad, Hatton, or Lewis measure up to either of these greats and their ring accomplishments.

From the class of featherweights, one cannot forget Owen Moran or John Phinneas among those who are long forgotten but whose records and accomplishments speak volumes and about whom very little is written requiring a sojourn back to the prime sources to garner the impact each had upon the minds of boxing enthusiasts during their respective boxing lifetimes.

Getting right to the heart of the matter, the argument presented, namely, that Hatton, Hamad and Lewis constitute the formidable trio of English fighters, the best ever produced, --- that argument is put immediately to rest in the examination of a single career --- the career of Jimmy Wilde, alone, emerging as a flyweight and generally considered the greatest flyweight who ever stepped into the ring. Indeed, many call him the greatest fighter ever to have stepped into the ring including Gene Tunney.

Known variably as The Ghost With a Hammer or The Mighty Atom, it is inescapable that the record established by Jimmy Wilde has stood the test of time and constitutes a record against which all fighters, from the heavyweight division to the paperweight division, will be measured when evaluating greatness. Here, take it again from Mike Casey, and build upon the assembling fortress of knowledge being compiled to come to grips with the modernity argument of bigger, faster, stronger. It isn't so ... and here's proof ... in the personage of one who commands attention as one of the greatest ten fighters ever to have entered the ring to ply his trade of leather swapping ... here is the Welshman in all his glory. Jimmy Wilde

Hatton, Hamad, Lennox Lewis ... the greatest ever to come out of England? Not by a longshot my friend ... and the proof is in the pudding. To think that they do represent the greatest from England is wishful thinking at its best and, additionally, proof that solipsism is a veritable philosophical underpinning sustaining someone's ego in formulating such a belief.

My first thought is "Wow"! As is the case with anything John writes, there is a lot of thought and research put in this article. He states his argument and then he proceeds to make his case. There are no holes in his arguments. This is a primer on British boxing greats.

Great piece John!

Randy, it's not hard to understand why John is such a successful attorney.
John is a pal and protector for his clients, he stands up for those who are beaing beaten up by the system and even feeds his clients who are hungry. John goes after the big guys, and he often puts them on the run. He works seven days a week, and often spends his nights in his office, sleeping on a sofa as he works on his cases. He is a selfless man and the greatest friend we could have.

[Rick Farris]

Roberto Duran vs Aaron Pryor

Debunking a common fallacy…………..

Almost without fail, whenever the subject of both Roberto Duran and Aaron Pryor comes up, Duran is almost always accused of purposely passing over the junior welterweights in order to avoid a showdown with Aaron Pryor. But the truth is when Roberto Duran moved up in weight to fight Edwin Viruet in April of 1978, it was Antonio Cervantes who held the junior welterweight title. Pryor would eventually challenge Cervantes for that title in August of 1980, almost two and a half years after the Duran vs. Viruet fight, stopping Cervantes in the 4th round.

Prior (no pun intended) to winning the title against Cervantes, Aaron Pryor had not fought anyone of any real consequence and certainly no one of Duran’s caliber. At the time of the Duran vs Viruet fight, Aaron Pryor was undefeated in 12 fights with 10 KO’s to his name. A fine record for an up and coming fighter but hardly someone deserving of a fight with Roberto Duran, at least not in that era. Even with an amateur win over Detroit’s Tommy Hearns in 1976, Pryor would not even be an after thought as an opponent for Duran. Pryor’s claim to fame was his 14th round KO over three time champ Alexis Arguello in November of 1982. He would fight Arguello the following year stopping him in the 10th round.

Pryor, a fine fighter with an exciting style peaked with the Arguello fight and never in his career came close to being the type of fighter that Duran was. Pryor had six more fights after the second Arguello fight, all of them against mediocre to average competition.

Roberto Duran was the reigning lightweight champ for almost seven years before moving up in weight and setting his sights on the welterweight crown. Duran ended the 70’s with fights against Viruet, Ezequiel Obando, Monroe Brooks, Jimmy Heair, Carlos Palomino and Zeffie Gonzalez. In the case of Viruet, Heair and Brooks, Duran was fighting better than average competition, and in Palomino’s case he was fighting an outstanding former welterweight champion. In his previous fight earlier that year, Palomino lost the welterweight title to the great Wilfredo Benitez by a 15 round split decision. It was Duran’s win over Carlos Palomino that showed he was a real threat to the welterweights.

So the question remains, who would win?

Physically, they match up well, Pryor standing 5’6” ½ , Duran at 5”7’ a ½ inch taller, but for me this is a no brainer. Duran, a natural lightweight might have lost some of his KO power when he moved up in weight, especially when he moved up to the middleweights, but he would have been right at home as a junior welterweight. Pryor was street tough and aggressive. Duran was feral, savage and primal in his approach. Both fighters could be relentless but Duran had bigger arsenal to draw from. Overall, Roberto Duran was a fundamentally better fighter.

Duran was no one hit wonder and his career record will back me up. He is in the top five of almost anyone’s all time great list and certainly in the top ten. Counter punching was the key to defeating Pryor and Duran was a great albeit vastly underrated counter puncher. Duran had angles and was great on the inside. He had too much experience for Pryor. Duran was a well schooled fighter with perhaps the greatest cornermen of all time working in his corner, Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown, Panama Lewis would be in Pryor’s corner. There is no such thing as a sure thing, I know that but I believe Duran had too much going for him.

Duran beat Ken Buchanan to win the WBA World Lightweight Championship at the Madison Square Garden in New York in 1972. In 1980, at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal, Quebec Duran lifted the welterweight crown from Sugar Ray Leonard in a hard fought and exciting 15 rounds unanimous decision. After the disastrous rematch with Leonard (I can hardly utter the words) and following a dark period in his career, including a 15 round unanimous decision loss to Wilfredo Benitez, Duran rebounded with a win over Pipino Cuevas, winning by a 4th round KO and securing a title fight with junior middleweight Davey Moore. Duran would outclass and out fight the game but overmatched champion Davey Moore in 8 rounds.

Later that year, 1983 Duran would face Marvelous Marvin Hagler for the middleweight title, losing a closer than expected unanimous 12 round decision. It was fight that brought out all of Duran’s crafty experience. Duran would be knocked out the following year for the first time in his career by fellow legendary fighter Tommy “Hit man” Hearns. For the next several years Duran would have inconsistent success against mostly inferior opponents, including a split decision loss to Marvin Hagler’s half brother Robbie Simms.

In 1989 Duran would once again fight for a world title, facing the ever tough fighter from the Bronx, New York, Iran Barkley in Atlantic City, New Jersey for the WBC Middleweight title. It was a close back and forth fight that saw Duran enduring some great punching by Barkley and drawing upon his experience to knockdown Barkley in the 11th round and securing a split decision win from the judges. This would be Duran’s last great fight.

Aaron Pryor would beat both Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello. The first fight with Arguello was named the fight of the decade by Ring Magazine and is considered one of the classic fights of the 1980’s. Despite fighting many good fighters during his career, in 40 fights in a 14 year career these are the only truly meaningful names on his resume. One, Cervantes, a near great, the other, Arguello, an all time great champion. Juxtaposed against Roberto Duran, whose career records reads like a classic boxing hall of fame roster, Pryor pales in comparison. It’s true that anything can happen in boxing and on any given night any fighter can win or lose, that’s been proven again and again over the years. Still if I had to pick a winner between Duran and Pryor, on their best night, I would pick Duran. When Duran was Duran he was unbeatable.

Randy, this is great writing, and you are 110% correct. Great anaolgy, etc. etc.

[kikibalt]

Coffee is on the camp fire.....

[CNorkusJr]

Temperatures have been slowly rising here the past few days. 40's, 50's for 2 days and today suppose to hit 64 degrees. The front lawn looks like my head. Some areas still has 3-4 inches of snow but there are plenty of balding spots in which I can see terra firma.
But its only fleeting as Monday nite temps get back to the 30's with possible snow flakes (light) heading our way. Great weather to get sick in. My lungs take a beating in the sudden temp differentials,but I learned how to deal with it over the last 9 years. Otherwise, cant wait for the steady spring weather to come.
I recently picked up on ebay a ticket stub to the Marciano-Matthews fight from Yankee stadium. My father fought on the undercard. Going to make a montage of pictures and ticket for great display piece.
Also found from the Chicago Tribune the wire photo of my father with Tommy "Hurricane" Jackson watching as Jack Dempsey shoots out his "Mannassas Mauler" before their fight in front of Dempseys painting in his Rest. I'll post them when I get them.

I did not know Mr Bardelli is an attorney. He is one helluva a writer on boxing. The newspapers or magazines would be wise to feature his thoughts.
Actually, when you get right down to it, several members here can do an outstanding job with writing in boxing publications.

[raylawpc]

Looks like this picture was taken at Jeffries Barn? I never saw the barn when it stood near my home in Burbank, as I was only two-years-old when it was taken apart and reconstructed as a "California historical building" at Knott's Berry Farm. I had planned to visit Knott's one day and take a photo of the barn as it looks today, however, I was told that it no longer on the site? If so, I believe somebody is in violation of California law, as it has been listed as a historical building. I will check this out, but I don't know when I will have the time to do so. Tom, have you heard anything of the building being removed from the site?

Yes, I think that photo was taken at the Barn. I think the Barn is still at Knott's Berry Farm. I saw a recent picture of it dated 2010 on a website recently.

Jeri and I might take the grandkids to Knott's later this year. I'll make a beeline for the barn and take some photos. I've seen the barn before but never knew about the Jeffries connection.

I've done a bit more research on-line, and I believe Jeffries Barn is now the "Wild West Dancehall." Randy, when it was a doll museum, there was a plaque on the wall identifying it as Jeffries' barn and reciting a bit of the barn's history. You might look for the plaque. I remember reading somewhere that the plaque is mounted on the back wall of the structure and that it's a small plaque. (If you aren't specifically looking for it, you might miss it.)

[Rick Farris]

I saw the small plaque. No history, as I expected to see. Nothing that identified it's past glory. I'm sure Randy will snap a photo.

[raylawpc]

I saw the small plaque. No history, as I expected to see. Nothing that identified it's past glory. I'm sure Randy will snap a photo.

Doesn't the plaque state that the barn was formerly owned by James J. Jeffries, former world heavyweight champion, and had served as a Union Hall in Burbank? I've never seen it, but I was thinking it identified the barn as formerly owned by Jeff - at least, that's what I read.

I hope Randy takes a picture.

[Rick Farris]

I saw the small plaque. No history, as I expected to see. Nothing that identified it's past glory. I'm sure Randy will snap a photo.

Doesn't the plaque state that the barn was formerly owned by James J. Jeffries, former world heavyweight champion, and had served as a Union Hall in Burbank? I've never seen it, but I was thinking it identified the barn as formerly owned by Jeff - at least, that's what I read.

I hope Randy takes a picture.

He will take one, I'm sure.

[kikibalt]

Art Aragon in court with attorney Paul Caruso...1956

[Rick Farris]

Art & Audie Aragon . . .

Art Aragon's oldest son, Audie, and I have been friends for more than thirty years.
Audie was named after Art's best friend, WW2 hero Audie Murphy. Murphy was decorated with the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Art had a role in the feature film on Murphy's life, "To Hell & Back", in the early 50's
Audie is a grip in the film industry and occasionally we will work together on a major feature film.
We are currently working together on the fourth Spider Man feature.
Audie wanted me to thank Frank for posting the recent pics of his dad, and he mentioned that the photos Frank posted were ones that he had not yet seen.
Audie has several huge scrap books of his father's career, and his mother recently gave him a bag that was filled with Art's boxing gloves, the ones he wore in some of his most memorable fights, such as the Jimmy Carter title bout, Carmen Basileo, etc.
Audie said that shortly before his father's death, he had his dad autograph each pair of gloves with a special gold marker. They were signed, "The Golden Boy, Art Aragon".
Audie has promised to share photos of his dads memorabelia, including one of Art's Pacific Coast Championship belt.
When we speak of Classic American West Coast Boxing legends, none is bigger than Art Aragon.
Audie may also post on this site himself, and he has a lot of great memories of his legendary father, and I told him he has a great audience here fro anything he might wish to share.


-Rick Farris

[CNorkusJr]

Art & Audie Aragon . . .

Art Aragon's oldest son, Audie, and I have been friends for more than thirty years.
Audie was named after Art's best friend, WW2 hero Audie Murphy. Murphy was decorated with the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Art had a role in the feature film on Murphy's life, "To Hell & Back", in the early 50's
Audie is a grip in the film industry and occasionally we will work together on a major feature film.
We are currently working together on the fourth Spider Man feature.
Audie wanted me to thank Frank for posting the recent pics of his dad, and he mentioned that the photos Frank posted were ones that he had not yet seen.
Audie has several huge scrap books of his father's career, and his mother recently gave him a bag that was filled with Art's boxing gloves, the ones he wore in some of his most memorable fights, such as the Jimmy Carter title bout, Carmen Basileo, etc.
Audie said that shortly before his father's death, he had his dad autograph each pair of gloves with a special gold marker. They were signed, "The Golden Boy, Art Aragon".
Audie has promised to share photos of his dads memorabelia, including one of Art's Pacific Coast Championship belt.
When we speak of Classic American West Coast Boxing legends, none is bigger than Art Aragon.
Audie may also post on this site himself, and he has a lot of great memories of his legendary father, and I told him he has a great audience here fro anything he might wish to share.


-Rick Farris

When I visited San Francisco in late 1980's, my wife at the time and I were taking in all the tourist sites the city had to offer. We worked our way over to city hall area and I was astonished to see the old SF City Auditorium that housed my fathers bouts as well as countless others. I didnt do any previous check to see if it was still standing prior to visit.
When we walked over to the entrance doors, I found a pair that were unlocked and walked in. The place was clean and used for events at the time, but not that particular week.
There was nobody around. No guard or employee around. I figured maybe a maintenance man was in the actual auditorium (we were in the lobby) and walked over to check it out.
Basically, thats all I wanted to do there anyway-take a look inside.
I did the same thing only a few years ago at the Miami Beach auditorium.
All of the interior doors were locked in SF Aud.
Just then a suited man walked in and asked us what are business was there.I told him I just wanted to see the interior and mentioned my fathers career briefly.
He said " Oh-you want to see the boxing museum on the second floor" and pointed up some stairs at the end of lobby. I was in shock. We thanked the man and quickly found ourselves on the 2nd floor. A very nice display of California Boxing history.Mostly pictures with descriptions, it did contain some boxing gloves,speed bags and shoes and a bell. but only 1 or 2 items of each. No plaques or such. It was sparse, but a very legit collection. It had Jeffries, Moore, a few things on Powell and others I did not connect with until I started coming here to CAWCB.

Frank, I did not note any Baltazar photos,as most of the items were pre 1960 or so. No Chacon either. I dont know when the SF Aud was used last as a boxing venue but I imagine the items were from that early time period. Did your boys ever fight in San Francisco, Frank ?

But far and away from all the items, Art Aragon pieces and pictures were the featured lot. I remember noting that Art Aragon was possibly 50% to 60 % of the museum. I was familiar with Mr Aragon as my father told me about him and his movie career as well. Well worth the time to visit though dont expect a tidal wave of items. If it exists at all. I did notice that the Auditorium in recent years has changed to Bill Graham (rock music promoter) Theatre.
The Miami Bch. Auditorium is now known as "The Jackie Gleason Theatre at the Miami Bch Auditorium". <full name used. There is no boxing items there and the seating area is totally rehabbed to a concert only venue.

[CNorkusJr]

Here is picture I got from Chicago Tribune. Its the same one you saw from the article on my father I posted. Tommy Jackson & Charley Norkus listen intently as Jack Dempsey displays his "Manassas Mauler" at his Rest. Lou Nova looks on. 1954. At least we know where that famous painting is hanging now Thanks to Tom Ray.





Ticket stub from ebay. Marciano vs Matthews July 1952- Yankee Stadium
My father fought for his second time at Yankee Stadium on the undercard.
A 5 Rd Dec loss to Dave Davey.

[CNorkusJr]

I saw the small plaque. No history, as I expected to see. Nothing that identified it's past glory. I'm sure Randy will snap a photo.

If the original plaque is small, and located in an obscure place, the way things are nowadays, its probably long gone. Unfortunetly, in these times of sports memorabilia and kid pranksters-I'm sure that plaque would go for a pretty penny on ebay or sports shows.

Besides boxing, I am a Civil War history enthusiast. I visit battlefields and noted graves of various war dead. Many civil war soldiers had bronze plaques placed next to their stones from post-Civil War era veterans organizations (Grand Army of Republic (GAR) or United Confederate Veterans(UCV)). Over time most are long gone,and occasionally show up on ebay and elsewhere. No respect for others.

[raylawpc]

I saw the small plaque. No history, as I expected to see. Nothing that identified it's past glory. I'm sure Randy will snap a photo.

If the original plaque is small, and located in an obscure place, the way things are nowadays, its probably long gone. Unfortunetly, in these times of sports memorabilia and kid pranksters-I'm sure that plaque would go for a pretty penny on ebay or sports shows.

Besides boxing, I am a Civil War history enthusiast. I visit battlefields and noted graves of various war dead. Many civil war soldiers had bronze plaques placed next to their stones from post-Civil War era veterans organizations (Grand Army of Republic (GAR) or United Confederate Veterans(UCV)). Over time most are long gone,and occasionally show up on ebay and elsewhere. No respect for others.

Many of those bronze plaques are stolen now for the resale value to metal dealers. They had a news report on its the other day in St. Louis. Many vandals are sneaking into cemeteries and stealing bronze and copper plaques and sell them to metal scrap dealers. Unbelievable!

[raylawpc]

Art & Audie Aragon . . .

Art Aragon's oldest son, Audie, and I have been friends for more than thirty years.
Audie was named after Art's best friend, WW2 hero Audie Murphy. Murphy was decorated with the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Art had a role in the feature film on Murphy's life, "To Hell & Back", in the early 50's
Audie is a grip in the film industry and occasionally we will work together on a major feature film.
We are currently working together on the fourth Spider Man feature.
Audie wanted me to thank Frank for posting the recent pics of his dad, and he mentioned that the photos Frank posted were ones that he had not yet seen.
Audie has several huge scrap books of his father's career, and his mother recently gave him a bag that was filled with Art's boxing gloves, the ones he wore in some of his most memorable fights, such as the Jimmy Carter title bout, Carmen Basileo, etc.
Audie said that shortly before his father's death, he had his dad autograph each pair of gloves with a special gold marker. They were signed, "The Golden Boy, Art Aragon".
Audie has promised to share photos of his dads memorabelia, including one of Art's Pacific Coast Championship belt.
When we speak of Classic American West Coast Boxing legends, none is bigger than Art Aragon.
Audie may also post on this site himself, and he has a lot of great memories of his legendary father, and I told him he has a great audience here fro anything he might wish to share.


-Rick Farris

Any chance you could twist his arm to bring those scrapbooks to the CBHOF banquet? I know you and I will be buying tables, so there will certainly be a spot there for him!

[CNorkusJr]

Not to long ago,someone asked me to list some NY gyms to visit if in town.

I came across this website that might have an interest to all here:

http://WWW.Boxinghelp.com
click on "gym directory"

I cant speak for the other states- but as far as NY goes, its looks fairly up-to-date.
Since hard times are hitting some gyms,some fold as others open.

If in NY I can recommend by Boros:

Bronx- Worldwide boxing Gym

Also, Juan Laporte's gym.(goes by same name as his).

BKLY- Atlas NYC on Foster Ave. (Teddy is assoc. with this place, whether he is there are not depends on his schedule on the road).

Of course Gleasons Gym- probably your best bet out of them all. Easy to get to from anywhere.

Starrett City- located near housing projects the gym is named after. Mark Breland is there often I am told.

In Manhattan (New York County), Kingsway Intl Boxing. (used to be on 8th Ave for years now relocated. Duran trained there as well as Gleasons when it moved to Manhattan.

Downtown Manhattan: Church Street Boxing.

Queens NY: Irish Ropes Boxing. Was Duddy's new spot, but who knows now.

As usual, please call ahead to find out if gym is still open, and who's in training if there is.
Until mid-March- NY Golden Gloves are currently active and each club has a full slate of young kids training now.

[bennie]

Art & Audie Aragon . . .

Art Aragon's oldest son, Audie, and I have been friends for more than thirty years.
Audie was named after Art's best friend, WW2 hero Audie Murphy. Murphy was decorated with the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Art had a role in the feature film on Murphy's life, "To Hell & Back", in the early 50's
Audie is a grip in the film industry and occasionally we will work together on a major feature film.
We are currently working together on the fourth Spider Man feature.
Audie wanted me to thank Frank for posting the recent pics of his dad, and he mentioned that the photos Frank posted were ones that he had not yet seen.
Audie has several huge scrap books of his father's career, and his mother recently gave him a bag that was filled with Art's boxing gloves, the ones he wore in some of his most memorable fights, such as the Jimmy Carter title bout, Carmen Basileo, etc.
Audie said that shortly before his father's death, he had his dad autograph each pair of gloves with a special gold marker. They were signed, "The Golden Boy, Art Aragon".
Audie has promised to share photos of his dads memorabelia, including one of Art's Pacific Coast Championship belt.
When we speak of Classic American West Coast Boxing legends, none is bigger than Art Aragon.
Audie may also post on this site himself, and he has a lot of great memories of his legendary father, and I told him he has a great audience here fro anything he might wish to share.


-Rick Farris

When I visited San Francisco in late 1980's, my wife at the time and I were taking in all the tourist sites the city had to offer. We worked our way over to city hall area and I was astonished to see the old SF City Auditorium that housed my fathers bouts as well as countless others. I didnt do any previous check to see if it was still standing prior to visit.
When we walked over to the entrance doors, I found a pair that were unlocked and walked in. The place was clean and used for events at the time, but not that particular week.
There was nobody around. No guard or employee around. I figured maybe a maintenance man was in the actual auditorium (we were in the lobby) and walked over to check it out.
Basically, thats all I wanted to do there anyway-take a look inside.
I did the same thing only a few years ago at the Miami Beach auditorium.
All of the interior doors were locked in SF Aud.
Just then a suited man walked in and asked us what are business was there.I told him I just wanted to see the interior and mentioned my fathers career briefly.
He said " Oh-you want to see the boxing museum on the second floor" and pointed up some stairs at the end of lobby. I was in shock. We thanked the man and quickly found ourselves on the 2nd floor. A very nice display of California Boxing history.Mostly pictures with descriptions, it did contain some boxing gloves,speed bags and shoes and a bell. but only 1 or 2 items of each. No plaques or such. It was sparse, but a very legit collection. It had Jeffries, Moore, a few things on Powell and others I did not connect with until I started coming here to CAWCB.

Frank, I did not note any Baltazar photos,as most of the items were pre 1960 or so. No Chacon either. I dont know when the SF Aud was used last as a boxing venue but I imagine the items were from that early time period. Did your boys ever fight in San Francisco, Frank ?

But far and away from all the items, Art Aragon pieces and pictures were the featured lot. I remember noting that Art Aragon was possibly 50% to 60 % of the museum. I was familiar with Mr Aragon as my father told me about him and his movie career as well. Well worth the time to visit though dont expect a tidal wave of items. If it exists at all. I did notice that the Auditorium in recent years has changed to Bill Graham (rock music promoter) Theatre.
The Miami Bch. Auditorium is now known as "The Jackie Gleason Theatre at the Miami Bch Auditorium". <full name used. There is no boxing items there and the seating area is totally rehabbed to a concert only venue.

Great story, Charley. I once stumbled upon a boxing pub in Manchester in which, suffice to say, I consumed a large amount of alcohol.

[bennie]

Me in Ireland a few years ago.