Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Rick Farris]

Jeri and I had pastrami on our minds today. We were thinking about Grinder Haven in Ontario but switched gears and decided to head to L.A.. We headed for Langer's Deli just west of downtown L.A. in the MacArthur Park area. Langer's is famous for their pastrami sandwiches. Langer's has been around since the 1940's and judging by the look of it it is probably the only hold over from Los Angeles' glory days.

Jeri ordered the number 19 or as they like to call it "The Legendary number 19", a pastrami sandwich on rye with swiss cheese, cole slaw and Russian dressing. Jeri asked for her sandwich to be served with toasted sourdough.The slaw is served in the sandwich. Jeri looked like she was enjoying it so I asked " How's the sandwich? All she could say was "Hmmm!" It's good? I asked again. "Very good" she said. So I said "Better than Grinder Haven"? "Just as good but different.

I ordered a half pastrami on rye with swiss cheese and Russian dressing along with the chicken matzo ball soup with noodles. Everything was outstanding. It amazes me how pastrami could be so good and so different from restaurant to restaurant. I've had both the corned beef sandwich and pastrami sandwich at Carnigies in New York, when it comes to quantity Carnigies has it over on Langer's but Langer's holds it's own in quality and taste. Also, the pickles at Carnigies were the best I've ever had.

After we ate we drove over to Main Street. I wanted to look at the spot where the old gym once stood. It has been gone for years but this time I wanted to get a picture. I was amazed at how the area has changed. Downtown has been trying to rebuild and reinvent itself for years. No more bums in the street. Frank and Rick will remember stepping over and around the poor souls that littered Main Street near the gym, many of them former fighters. Across the street where Johnnie's Shrimp Boat once stood is a new building. Nothing stays the same.


Langer's Deli on the corner of 7th and Alvarado.


The Legendary number 19


My half pastrami sandwich above and

Matzo Ball and Noodle soup below. (Good Stuff)


Two views of the empty space where the Main Street Gym once stood

Randy, that space is no longer empty. A big building now occupies the spot where the parking lot was.
It's hard to recognize the old neighborhood, no Follies Theatre, No Gym, no greezy spook Fish Boat stand, no pawn shops, no barber college . . . Just new buildings.

[Randyman]

Jeri and I had pastrami on our minds today. We were thinking about Grinder Haven in Ontario but switched gears and decided to head to L.A.. We headed for Langer's Deli just west of downtown L.A. in the MacArthur Park area. Langer's is famous for their pastrami sandwiches. Langer's has been around since the 1940's and judging by the look of it it is probably the only hold over from Los Angeles' glory days.

Jeri ordered the number 19 or as they like to call it "The Legendary number 19", a pastrami sandwich on rye with swiss cheese, cole slaw and Russian dressing. Jeri asked for her sandwich to be served with toasted sourdough.The slaw is served in the sandwich. Jeri looked like she was enjoying it so I asked " How's the sandwich? All she could say was "Hmmm!" It's good? I asked again. "Very good" she said. So I said "Better than Grinder Haven"? "Just as good but different.

I ordered a half pastrami on rye with swiss cheese and Russian dressing along with the chicken matzo ball soup with noodles. Everything was outstanding. It amazes me how pastrami could be so good and so different from restaurant to restaurant. I've had both the corned beef sandwich and pastrami sandwich at Carnigies in New York, when it comes to quantity Carnigies has it over on Langer's but Langer's holds it's own in quality and taste. Also, the pickles at Carnigies were the best I've ever had.

After we ate we drove over to Main Street. I wanted to look at the spot where the old gym once stood. It has been gone for years but this time I wanted to get a picture. I was amazed at how the area has changed. Downtown has been trying to rebuild and reinvent itself for years. No more bums in the street. Frank and Rick will remember stepping over and around the poor souls that littered Main Street near the gym, many of them former fighters. Across the street where Johnnie's Shrimp Boat once stood is a new building. Nothing stays the same.


Langer's Deli on the corner of 7th and Alvarado.


The Legendary number 19


My half pastrami sandwich above and

Matzo Ball and Noodle soup below. (Good Stuff)


Two views of the empty space where the Main Street Gym once stood

Randy, that space is no longer empty. A big building now occupies the spot where the parking lot was.
It's hard to recognize the old neighborhood, no Follies Theatre, No Gym, no greezy spook Fish Boat stand, no pawn shops, no barber college . . . Just new buildings.

Rick, I took that photo yesterday, on Main Street between 3rd and 4th streets, which is where the gym was located. The new building is between 2nd and 3rd. If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat.

[Randyman]

In an article today on fightnews.com, about last night’s fight between Nonito Donaire and Fernando Montiel, Montiel is referred to as a “Mexican Legend”. Huh?? Mexico has produced many boxing legends over the years but unless I’m missing something, Fernando Montiel is not one of them.

I checked his record here on boxrec.com, he has had 49 fights, won 44 of them, 34 by knockout, he’s lost 3 fights, and was stopped once.

His first loss, was an MD loss to Mark Johnson in 2003, the second was a SD to Jhonny Gonzalez in 2006, and of course last night’s fight with Donaire with the lone knockout of his career.

Legend? I’ll refer to Rick’s quote of former California featherweight champ Danny Valdez who said “Don’t tell me how many wins you have, show me who you fought, and that will tell me how good you are."

Ruben Olivares was a legend and his record will back that up. Does anyone here put Montiel in the same league as Olivares? Words like "Legend", "Great" and "Superstar" are tossed around so free and easy nowadays that they have begun to lose any true meaning.

I'll give Montiel credit for getting up as hurt as he was, the shame goes to referee Russell Mora for letting him get up.

[Randyman]

My breakfast, scrambled eggs, pancakes and sausage. :P

[Randyman]

Great spots, Randy. I'm going to call Don Fraser and see if he'd like to join me at Art's Deli this afternoon.
Monica will be working the lunch shift. Don says his favorite L.A. Deli is Art's, where he orders the Pastrami Sandwich.

Art's will be next on my list for L.A.s great deli's. There may be a story in this somewhere.

[Panzerfaust]

My breakfast, scrambled eggs, pancakes and sausage. :P

A breakfast of champions

[Randyman]

I saw one of my favorite old westerns on the western channel last night, Winchester 73 with Jimmy Stewart and Shelley Winters. These old westerns are the types of movies my father and I used to enjoy watching on a Saturday or Sunday morning. They really don't make them like this anymore.


Jimmy Stewart and Charles Drake

The original "True Grit" . . .

Randy . . . I was thinking of you and Frank last night as I watched the original "True Grit" on AMC.
As I've mentioned, one of my uncles worked on that film as well as it's sequal. Rooster Cogburn.
My uncle was not the lighting director on that one, but the assistant to one of the best feature LD's in Hollywood history, Earl Gilbert.
My Uncle traveled the world with Earl during the 60's and early 70's, and they made some all-time classic films. I recall when I was a kid my cousin was always on the road with his dad & mom, that is when school was out. My uncle worked with Earl Gilbert thruout Europe, and here in the States they did films such as the two I mentioned above, as well as "The Graduate", "Catch-22" which wasfilmed here at Paramount Studios as well as Guaymos, Mexico (spelling?).
As I watched True Grit, which they made in the late 60's, I enjoyed the beautiful photography and the brilliant lighting. In those days, the film was a bit slower and this gave it a rich brilliant look when the lighting was balanced correctly. The slower the film emulsion, the more light necessary to illuminate the subjects. On those daytime exterior shots, earl would use quite a few "Arc Lights" which required a lot of power to energize. Instead of a light bulb, and arc light burns carbon like the old search lights you's see on the street at super market openings when we were kids. They would color correct the lights to match the scene and when I saw The Duke lit so nicely, artistically back lit in every shot by the sun it literally gave me goose bumps. Kim Darby looked great. Eastman always made the best film stock,. The Japanese came in during the 70's and tried to push Fuji film, but it didn't measure up to the Eastman stock. Sorry for all the technical dialogue, I got a little carried away by such a beautiful image on the screen. Those images were a lot more difficult to create back in the day, no computers to "fix" things on the screen. Westerns were great to work on, and I'm glad I learned to light them the "old school" way thru my family and Michael LAndon. I'm sure the new "True Grit" looks great, as well. And a part of me wishes I could have lit that film myself, with Michael Landon's legendary cinematographer, the late Ted Voitlander calling the shots from behind the lens. Sometimes it's fun to dream. By the way, I would later have a chance to work with Earl Gilbert myself, as one of his lighting tech's on the moview Zanadu at Universal in 1978. Earl was one of my mentors, the best of the best of Hollywood LD's in the years after my grandfather had retired. Cinematographers would kiss his arse trying to get him to light there big films, he commanded such respect on his big films. The Duke insisted that Earl Gilbert light "True Grit", and the film was delayed until Earl Gilbert had finished a previous film and available for the True Grit production. This came from the top offices at Paramount, who produced the western classic.

Rick, I was thinking of you last night as I was watching "Winchester 73". I was thinking how important the lighting was in these older films. The lighting along with the shadows are what brought the mood and atmosphere to a movie, especially in the Film Noir movies such as "Double Indemnity" and others. Real old school movie making, no modern computers just old fashioned know how.

Rick, have you been able to pass on your skills to a younger generation? Is there a group of young people that really want to learn?

[raylawpc]

In an article today on fightnews.com, about last night’s fight between Nonito Donaire and Fernando Montiel, Montiel is referred to as a “Mexican Legend”. Huh??

Maybe he's a legend in the writer's mind. For too many so-called "boxing experts," boxing history began the year they were born.

[Randyman]

My breakfast, scrambled eggs, pancakes and sausage. :P

A breakfast of champions

I feel like a super heavyweight champion this morning!

[Panzerfaust]

In an article today on fightnews.com, about last night’s fight between Nonito Donaire and Fernando Montiel, Montiel is referred to as a “Mexican Legend”. Huh?? Mexico has produced many boxing legends over the years but unless I’m missing something, Fernando Montiel is not one of them.

I checked his record here on boxrec.com, he has had 49 fights, won 44 of them, 34 by knockout, he’s lost 3 fights, and was stopped once.

His first loss, was an MD loss to Mark Johnson in 2003, the second was a SD to Jhonny Gonzalez in 2006, and of course last night’s fight with Donaire with the lone knockout of his career.

Legend? I’ll refer to Rick’s quote of former California featherweight champ Danny Valdez who said “Don’t tell me how many wins you have, show me who you fought, and that will tell me how good you are."

Ruben Olivares was a legend and his record will back that up. Does anyone here put Montiel in the same league as Olivares? Words like "Legend", "Great" and "Superstar" are tossed around so free and easy nowadays that they have begun to lose any true meaning.

I'll give Montiel credit for getting up as hurt as he was, the shame goes to referee Russell Mora for letting him get up.

I have never seen anything ''special'' about Montiel. undoubtedly a good fighter but a legend would be pushing it in my book.
Donaire on the other hand i could definatly see a spark of greatness in that i hope he lives up to
He seems like a very softspoken and humble guy

[Panzerfaust]

My breakfast, scrambled eggs, pancakes and sausage. :P

A breakfast of champions

I feel like a super heavyweight champion this morning!

I hear its Chris Arreolas diet while in camp

[Randyman]

In an article today on fightnews.com, about last night’s fight between Nonito Donaire and Fernando Montiel, Montiel is referred to as a “Mexican Legend”. Huh??

Maybe he's a legend in the writer's mind. For too many so-called "boxing experts," boxing history began the year they were born.

You might be right Tom. Funny thing is, when I was young I had a certain reverence for the past, which is why I loved Jack Dempsey, as did Rick. never saw him fight but I read his biography as a kid. He was my boyhood idol. Same with Robinson, before our time but we knew who and what he was. Makes me wonder what has changed.

[Randyman]

A breakfast of champions

I feel like a super heavyweight champion this morning!

I hear its Chris Arreolas diet while in camp

That and a gallon of warm beer.

[Randyman]

In an article today on fightnews.com, about last night’s fight between Nonito Donaire and Fernando Montiel, Montiel is referred to as a “Mexican Legend”. Huh?? Mexico has produced many boxing legends over the years but unless I’m missing something, Fernando Montiel is not one of them.

I checked his record here on boxrec.com, he has had 49 fights, won 44 of them, 34 by knockout, he’s lost 3 fights, and was stopped once.

His first loss, was an MD loss to Mark Johnson in 2003, the second was a SD to Jhonny Gonzalez in 2006, and of course last night’s fight with Donaire with the lone knockout of his career.

Legend? I’ll refer to Rick’s quote of former California featherweight champ Danny Valdez who said “Don’t tell me how many wins you have, show me who you fought, and that will tell me how good you are."

Ruben Olivares was a legend and his record will back that up. Does anyone here put Montiel in the same league as Olivares? Words like "Legend", "Great" and "Superstar" are tossed around so free and easy nowadays that they have begun to lose any true meaning.

I'll give Montiel credit for getting up as hurt as he was, the shame goes to referee Russell Mora for letting him get up.

I have never seen anything ''special'' about Montiel. undoubtedly a good fighter but a legend would be pushing it in my book.
Donaire on the other hand i could definatly see a spark of greatness in that i hope he lives up to
He seems like a very softspoken and humble guy

I agree Remy, Donaire seems to have greatness in his future. I like fighters that fight boldly, like Abner Mares, who also seems to have a bright future. Real greatness can't be measured in one or two fights, or in one or two years. Real greatness stands the test of time. We'll see.

[Panzerfaust]

In an article today on fightnews.com, about last night’s fight between Nonito Donaire and Fernando Montiel, Montiel is referred to as a “Mexican Legend”. Huh?? Mexico has produced many boxing legends over the years but unless I’m missing something, Fernando Montiel is not one of them.

I checked his record here on boxrec.com, he has had 49 fights, won 44 of them, 34 by knockout, he’s lost 3 fights, and was stopped once.

His first loss, was an MD loss to Mark Johnson in 2003, the second was a SD to Jhonny Gonzalez in 2006, and of course last night’s fight with Donaire with the lone knockout of his career.

Legend? I’ll refer to Rick’s quote of former California featherweight champ Danny Valdez who said “Don’t tell me how many wins you have, show me who you fought, and that will tell me how good you are."

Ruben Olivares was a legend and his record will back that up. Does anyone here put Montiel in the same league as Olivares? Words like "Legend", "Great" and "Superstar" are tossed around so free and easy nowadays that they have begun to lose any true meaning.

I'll give Montiel credit for getting up as hurt as he was, the shame goes to referee Russell Mora for letting him get up.

I have never seen anything ''special'' about Montiel. undoubtedly a good fighter but a legend would be pushing it in my book.
Donaire on the other hand i could definatly see a spark of greatness in that i hope he lives up to
He seems like a very softspoken and humble guy

I agree Remy, Donaire seems to have greatness in his future. I like fighters that fight boldly, like Abner Mares, who also seems to have a bright future. Real greatness can't be measured in one or two fights, or in one or two years. Real greatness stands the test of time. We'll see.

Donaire said he would stick around at bantam for a while.... Donaire-Mares would be a good matchup

[kikibalt]

Having an Absolut, cigar (Paragas 1845) and listening to some killer blues

[Randyman]

Having an Absolut, cigar (Paragas 1845) and listening to some killer blues

That deserves this....
....it ain't the blues but it's awful good. Seems appropriate for today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMNgfiJ_WeA

[CNorkusJr]

Just want to say you guys are killing me with the food shots here. Mighty good looking sandwiches. After seeing Langers earlier, I went downstairs and put on the TV. On the Travel Channel, they had a show called "Food Wars". Repeats I'm sure. One of the shows pitted Katz's deli Pastrami Sandwich vs 2nd Ave deli Pastrami Sandwich.
There has to be a sublime message coming through here somewhere.
Katz's deli on the show won the taste testing by food critics. The show made my mouth water. 2nd Ave deli is the new kid on the block at 60 yrs of age compared to Katz's 120 year rep.
Both put out a great sandwich.No mention of Carnegie deli on show.
I had all 3 at one time or another. My opinion: Tasting: Katz's. Original spices and cooked over time,then steamed. handcut by knife.
Most bite for your money: Carnegie, piled mile high usually feeds two.
Thin Sliced: 2nd Ave Deli, cut by slicer,seems more easier to digest.
Best sides- toss up but Katz has crunchy, potato laden knishes homemade,great salads on side. Pickle selection goes to Carnegie.
My craving will bring me to Katzs' soon - gotta take photos and post.
French dips are offered here. Most famous- Brooklyn's " Brennans & Carrs."
Thats another meaty story for another time. Thank You Gents.

[CNorkusJr]

My breakfast, scrambled eggs, pancakes and sausage. :P

A breakfast of champions

My father told me that when things were going good- steak with eggs on top for breakfast. I think that was on mornings of his fights. He didnt fight on empty stomach, but ate early dinner on fight nites.Hydrated well-but not feeling sluggish.

[Randyman]

Just want to say you guys are killing me with the food shots here. Mighty good looking sandwiches. After seeing Langers earlier, I went downstairs and put on the TV. On the Travel Channel, they had a show called "Food Wars". Repeats I'm sure. One of the shows pitted Katz's deli Pastrami Sandwich vs 2nd Ave deli Pastrami Sandwich.
There has to be a sublime message coming through here somewhere.
Katz's deli on the show won the taste testing by food critics. The show made my mouth water. 2nd Ave deli is the new kid on the block at 60 yrs of age compared to Katz's 120 year rep.
Both put out a great sandwich.No mention of Carnegie deli on show.
I had all 3 at one time or another. My opinion: Tasting: Katz's. Original spices and cooked over time,then steamed. handcut by knife.
Most bite for your money: Carnegie, piled mile high usually feeds two.
Thin Sliced: 2nd Ave Deli, cut by slicer,seems more easier to digest.
Best sides- toss up but Katz has crunchy, potato laden knishes homemade,great salads on side. Pickle selection goes to Carnegie.
My craving will bring me to Katzs' soon - gotta take photos and post.
French dips are offered here. Most famous- Brooklyn's " Brennans & Carrs."
Thats another meaty story for another time. Thank You Gents.

Charlie, pleas take some photos!!

Maybe we should rename this thread "Classic American West Coast Boxing and Good Eats Anywhere USA".

[CNorkusJr]

Just want to say you guys are killing me with the food shots here. Mighty good looking sandwiches. After seeing Langers earlier, I went downstairs and put on the TV. On the Travel Channel, they had a show called "Food Wars". Repeats I'm sure. One of the shows pitted Katz's deli Pastrami Sandwich vs 2nd Ave deli Pastrami Sandwich.
There has to be a sublime message coming through here somewhere.
Katz's deli on the show won the taste testing by food critics. The show made my mouth water. 2nd Ave deli is the new kid on the block at 60 yrs of age compared to Katz's 120 year rep.
Both put out a great sandwich.No mention of Carnegie deli on show.
I had all 3 at one time or another. My opinion: Tasting: Katz's. Original spices and cooked over time,then steamed. handcut by knife.
Most bite for your money: Carnegie, piled mile high usually feeds two.
Thin Sliced: 2nd Ave Deli, cut by slicer,seems more easier to digest.
Best sides- toss up but Katz has crunchy, potato laden knishes homemade,great salads on side. Pickle selection goes to Carnegie.
My craving will bring me to Katzs' soon - gotta take photos and post.
French dips are offered here. Most famous- Brooklyn's " Brennans & Carrs."
Thats another meaty story for another time. Thank You Gents.

Charlie, pleas take some photos!!

Maybe we should rename this thread "Classic American West Coast Boxing and Good Eats Anywhere USA".

[Randyman]

My breakfast, scrambled eggs, pancakes and sausage. :P

A breakfast of champions

My father told me that when things were going good- steak with eggs on top for breakfast. I think that was on mornings of his fights. He didnt fight on empty stomach, but ate early dinner on fight nites.Hydrated well-but not feeling sluggish.

Your father was right Charlie, every once in a while I'll have steak and eggs with some good home fries. Biscuits and gravy too when I can get them. Man, I'm getting hungry all over again.

[Randyman]

33,000 posts!!!!

The last post passed the 33,000 mark.
We are exactly three years old, and have averaged 11,000 posts per year.
Nothing on the web can compare.
We've come a long way from Pug's original post relating to Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez.

I'm proud to be a part of this!

[kikibalt]

Having an Absolut, cigar (Paragas 1845) and listening to some killer blues

That deserves this....
....it ain't the blues but it's awful good. Seems appropriate for today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMNgfiJ_WeA

Thanks Randy, love that great tune from the '60's....

[kikibalt]

Watching this movie on DVD

Champion (1949 film)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Directed by Mark Robson
Produced by Stanley Kramer
Written by Story:
Ring Lardner
Screenplay:
Carl Foreman
Starring Kirk Douglas
Marilyn Maxwell
Music by Dimitri Tiomkin
Cinematography Franz Planer
Editing by Harry W. Gerstad
Distributed by United Artists
Release date(s) April 9, 1949
(United States)
Running time 99 minutes

Champion (1949) is an American film noir drama based on a short story by Ring Lardner. Filmed in black-and-white, it recounts the struggles of boxer "Midge" Kelly fighting his own demons while working to achieve success in the boxing ring. The drama was directed by Mark Robson, with cinematography by Franz Planer. The drama features Kirk Douglas, Marilyn Maxwell, and others.

The film won an Academy Award for Editing and gained five other nominations as well, including a Best Actor for Douglas.
Contents

Cast

* Kirk Douglas as Michael "Midge" Kelly
* Marilyn Maxwell as Grace Diamond
* Arthur Kennedy as Connie Kelly
* Paul Stewart as Tommy Haley
* Ruth Roman as Emma Bryce
* Lola Albright as Palmer Harris
* Luis Van Rooten as Jerome "Jerry" Harris
* Harry Shannon as Lew Bryce
* John Daheim as Johnny Dunne

When the film was released, Bosley Crowther, the film critic for The New York Times, believed the drama was not exactly faithful to the original Lardner story, which had a very hard-edge. Still, he gave the boxing drama a positive review, and wrote, "However, Director Mark Robson has covered up story weaknesses with a wealth of pictorial interests and exciting action of a graphic, colorful sort. His scenes in training gymnasiums, managers' offices and, of course, the big fight rings arc strongly atmospheric and physically intense. Except that the fighting is more furious than one can credit, it is virtually all right. As the hero and "Champion," Kirk Douglas does a good, aggressive job, with a slight inclination to over-eagerness at times, which might amuse an old fight fan. Arthur Kennedy is dour as his crippled brother who distrusts the slaughterous sport, and Marilyn Maxwell, Ruth Roman and Lola Albright are attractive as the "champ's" various girls. Paul Stewart is most convincing as a quiet, hard-bitten manager."

The staff at Variety magazine gave the picture a good review and also noted the difference between the screenplay and the original story. They wrote, "Adapted from a Ring Lardner short story of the same title, Champion is a stark, realistic study of the boxing rackets and the degeneracy of a prizefighter. Fight scenes, under Franz Planer's camera, have realism and impact. Unrelenting pace is set by the opening sequence. Cast, under Mark Robson's tight direction, is fine. Kirk Douglas is the boxer and he makes the character live. Second honors go jointly to Arthur Kennedy, the fighter's crippled brother, and Paul Stewart as the knowing manager."