Decline of the EBU title in Britain

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 11 Jun 2005, 16:13

Esham Pickering's successful recent defence of his European title makes me wonder why the pursuit of the EBU belt seems to have declined in recent years in Britain. That little blue fella has always guaranteed both a good standard of financial reward for it's defence, and a very useful ranking with the Big 3 sanctioning bodies if you make enough of those defences. Would unfashionable guys like Clinton Woods and Billy Schwer have ever made it into WBC mandatory positions without their EBU defences? I just don't understand the lack of interest by promoters these days. Had Joe Calzaghe been defending an EBU belt since 1997 he'd have been WBC, WBA and IBF mandatory any number of times.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 11 Jun 2005, 16:55

Chopping Right wrote:Had Joe Calzaghe been defending an EBU belt since 1997 he'd have been WBC, WBA and IBF mandatory any number of times.

Yeah and then we would have missed out on Mario Veit 1 & 2 wouldn't we? Think about these things before posting please

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 11 Jun 2005, 17:03

Why fight for the EBU when you could get a prestigious world title such as the WBU or WBF far more easily?

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 11 Jun 2005, 17:22

Give me the EBU anytime.

Seasoned Europeans are among the hardest fighters to beat. It can only help a fighter in his quest for a world title.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 11 Jun 2005, 17:30

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Give me the EBU anytime.

Seasoned Europeans are among the hardest fighters to beat. It can only help a fighter in his quest for a world title.

Except when that quest is for any world title, WBU,WBF, IBO, etc. Maybe that is the problem now, EBU defences are too tough and too risky compared to beating Mexican roadsweepers.

Gary_V · Post by **Gary_V** » 12 Jun 2005, 13:25

Hey has anyone considered making a Euro P4P at all?

No particualr order:

Mormeck
Hatton
Vitali Klitschko
Castillejo
Monishipour
Witter
Eastman
Kessler
Nelson
Calzaghe

Gary_V · Post by **Gary_V** » 12 Jun 2005, 13:27

I do like the EBU Title. Seems more authentic than any WBU etc titles and gives the fighters a good standing in the top-3 sanctioning bodies.

Looking at Michael Brodie, as an example. Weighing up his achievements, most would be way more impressed by EBU Title and defences rather than his WBF and IBO Trinkets.

MTG · Post by **MTG** » 12 Jun 2005, 13:34

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Give me the EBU anytime.

Seasoned Europeans are among the hardest fighters to beat. It can only help a fighter in his quest for a world title.

PERSONNALY I REGARD THE EUROPEAN TITLE MORE THAN THESE SO CALLED WORLD BELTS.

M.T GILLICK

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 12 Jun 2005, 14:49

Gary_V wrote:Hey has anyone considered making a Euro P4P at all?

No particualr order:

Mormeck
Hatton
Vitali Klitschko
Castillejo
Monishipour
Witter
Eastman
Kessler
Nelson
Calzaghe

Thats pretty much also the ones I have maybe mixed with Adamek, Urkal, Sinitsin, Tiozzo and Sidorenko in the 15

dwo 27 · Post by **dwo 27** » 12 Jun 2005, 14:57

I'm a great believer in taking the traditional route to a world title. Area Title, British Title, Commonwealth, European.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 12 Jun 2005, 15:10

MTG wrote:
Southpaw Stylist wrote:Give me the EBU anytime.

Seasoned Europeans are among the hardest fighters to beat. It can only help a fighter in his quest for a world title.
PERSONNALY I REGARD THE EUROPEAN TITLE MORE THAN THESE SO CALLED WORLD BELTS.

M.T GILLICK

Hell yeah. Fully agree. EBU the only way to get a good foot up on the way to the big 3, which, whilst a bag of corrupt shit (rankings included) are still the aim for any proper boxer. Even the WBO, usually considered 4th best, gives fighters the option to bypass that route - Calzaghe, Harrison etc. Krasniqi a rare exception I suppose. The others are a joke. Have a slight soft spot for the IBO, who I think are decent enough but lacking age, but other than that I'd rather carry the sodding EU belt than any WBU shit.

Agree with you too, dwo 27, about taking the traditional route.

Always wondered about the Comm. compared to British belts. I know, with a larger pool of ellidgable fighters, the comm. should carry more esteem than the domestic title, but somehow (maybe it's just me perceiving things) but for me a holder of the Brit belt often seems a slightly better boxer than the comm. boxer in the same weight div. Maybe just coincidence. Don't know anything else that would make it so.?

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 12 Jun 2005, 15:18

jomothepure wrote:Always wondered about the Comm. compared to British belts. I know, with a larger pool of ellidgable fighters, the comm. should carry more esteem than the domestic title, but somehow (maybe it's just me perceiving things) but for me a holder of the Brit belt often seems a slightly better boxer than the comm. boxer in the same weight div. Maybe just coincidence. Don't know anything else that would make it so.?

The Commonwealth belt should be more prestigious than the British title because in theory it should be contested by the best fighters from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana, etc as well as Blighty. As you say though somehow it tends to figure as a second-rate belt that is generally in the possession of the British champion. I don't know why that is, I can only assume it is the lack of prestige for the title in other Commonwealth countries.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Jun 2005, 15:43

I think the main problem with the Commonwealth title is the there are too many eligable countries and it often means the poor fighters who represent a low populated countries get shots, which devalues the belt with mismatches.

Also, despite the large population the depth of talent in Austrailia, New Zealand and Canada isn't great. The national belt holders are usually poor.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 12 Jun 2005, 16:05

stujones wrote:Also, despite the large population the depth of talent in Austrailia, New Zealand and Canada isn't great. The national belt holders are usually poor.

That is a factor, however if the belt had some significant prestige to the top fighters of those countries it should still evlevate the title above British level. Imagine if David Tua, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter were all queuing up for Matt Skelton's heavyweight belt - if only!

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 12 Jun 2005, 16:42

Or even a Corrie Sanders or Owen Beck.
Boxrec's list over the top commonwealth heavies:
http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?natio ... =A&index=0

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 12 Jun 2005, 20:17

Chopping Right wrote:
stujones wrote:Also, despite the large population the depth of talent in Austrailia, New Zealand and Canada isn't great. The national belt holders are usually poor.
That is a factor, however if the belt had some significant prestige to the top fighters of those countries it should still evlevate the title above British level. Imagine if David Tua, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter were all queuing up for Matt Skelton's heavyweight belt - if only!

Hahaha, good point.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Jun 2005, 20:23

Chopping Right wrote:
stujones wrote:Also, despite the large population the depth of talent in Austrailia, New Zealand and Canada isn't great. The national belt holders are usually poor.
That is a factor, however if the belt had some significant prestige to the top fighters of those countries it should still evlevate the title above British level. Imagine if David Tua, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter were all queuing up for Matt Skelton's heavyweight belt - if only!

Yes, but those fighters you mention with the possible exception of Johnson are beyond national / commonwealth level and should be chasing for the geniune world title fights. Kind of like where Danny Williams stands now, really this fight with Skelton is a backward step as is the Commonwealth / British title level.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 13 Jun 2005, 02:37

stujones wrote:
Chopping Right wrote:
stujones wrote:Also, despite the large population the depth of talent in Austrailia, New Zealand and Canada isn't great. The national belt holders are usually poor.
That is a factor, however if the belt had some significant prestige to the top fighters of those countries it should still evlevate the title above British level. Imagine if David Tua, Kirk Johnson and Samuel Peter were all queuing up for Matt Skelton's heavyweight belt - if only!
Yes, but those fighters you mention with the possible exception of Johnson are beyond national / commonwealth level and should be chasing for the geniune world title fights. Kind of like where Danny Williams stands now, really this fight with Skelton is a backward step as is the Commonwealth / British title level.

Not if you take it in terms of the size of this fight commercially. Plus, if you consider Williams' only proper forays outside Britland scene have been getting pummelled by Samil Sam for the EBU and then beating a washed-up Tyson. Yes, hopefully he can do better, but this is just about right for him now IMO.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:44

The fighter, nowadays more than ever, makes the belt.

i like the European top 15 idea, but outside the top tier the depth of talent isn't massively evident. A few good 'uns coming through all the time but rarely reaching the heights.

The issue with the Commonwealth belt is national politics, hence fighters from nations who haven't had a shot for a while getting mismatched, or belts being held onto by specific nations / promoters, just like the Brits or germans do with the various belts on offer to them.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 13 Jun 2005, 12:12

Freiheit wrote:
Gary_V wrote:Hey has anyone considered making a Euro P4P at all?

No particualr order:

Mormeck
Hatton
Vitali Klitschko
Castillejo
Monishipour
Witter
Eastman
Kessler
Nelson
Calzaghe
Thats pretty much also the ones I have maybe mixed with Adamek, Urkal, Sinitsin, Tiozzo and Sidorenko in the 15

Could stick in Roman Karmizin in, (i've just checked his record and see a IBF eliminator win).

Decline of the EBU title in Britain

Decline of the EBU title in Britain

Re: Decline of the EBU title in Britain