Audley v Robert Davis this Thursday

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 13 Jun 2005, 06:52

Chambers2 wrote:...but Hersisa and Bonin were decent opponents for 15th nad 17th opponents (especially Bonin), they both came to fight and with ambition, neither were there as punchbags

I think I'd have to disagree with you there, they did come to fight no doubt about that, but were never going to provide much of an education to Audley. There are good "gatekeepers" out there who would have provided a better test at that stage, but they might not have seemed acceptable to unknowledgable viewers unfortunately because of their losses.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:07

Chopping Right wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:...but Hersisa and Bonin were decent opponents for 15th nad 17th opponents (especially Bonin), they both came to fight and with ambition, neither were there as punchbags
I think I'd have to disagree with you there, they did come to fight no doubt about that, but were never going to provide much of an education to Audley. There are good "gatekeepers" out there who would have provided a better test at that stage, but they might not have seemed acceptable to unknowledgable viewers unfortunately because of their losses.

There are Pros and Cons for either route. I personally think that Audley would have learnt more from the Hersisa/Bonin fights than the Francis one. What suitable "gatekeepers" would you have suggested for his 15th/ 17th opponents instead of Bonin/Hersisa?

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:17

Chambers2 wrote:
Chopping Right wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:...but Hersisa and Bonin were decent opponents for 15th nad 17th opponents (especially Bonin), they both came to fight and with ambition, neither were there as punchbags
I think I'd have to disagree with you there, they did come to fight no doubt about that, but were never going to provide much of an education to Audley. There are good "gatekeepers" out there who would have provided a better test at that stage, but they might not have seemed acceptable to unknowledgable viewers unfortunately because of their losses.
There are Pros and Cons for either route. I personally think that Audley would have learnt more from the Hersisa/Bonin fights than the Francis one. What suitable "gatekeepers" would you have suggested for his 15th/ 17th opponents instead of Bonin/Hersisa?

Agreed. Discounting Europeans on the basis of their nationality is something the Americans do very well without Europeans doing it as well. OK, they weren't going to win but they were going to push the fight - even though Hersisia was / is distinctly ordinary he didn't want to surrender his unbeaten record and M&S belt without at least taking it to Audley. Sticking him in with Imamu Mayfield would prove just as little.

that said, the pool of Europeans worth using as stepping stones is smaller than the pool of Americans.

Harrison - Vidoz? Anyone? Bueller?

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:19

Chambers2 wrote:There are Pros and Cons for either route. I personally think that Audley would have learnt more from the Hersisa/Bonin fights than the Francis one. What suitable "gatekeepers" would you have suggested for his 15th/ 17th opponents instead of Bonin/Hersisa?

Good question, but I wasn't really thinking about British gatekeepers like Julius. Given that he was an Olympic Gold medallist I was hoping for the same sort of guys Lennox was facing. Lewis' 15th fight was against an unbeaten Gary Mason, his next fight was against an aging former champ in Mike Weaver, and after that is was Sky's own Glenn McCrory who had been an IBF cruiser champ shortly beforehand. I think that's the sort of calibre I'd been hoping for, so translating that into modern names maybe you'd be looking at David Izon, Vassily Jirov, Michael Moorer, that sort of level. Basically people who have been in with other international-level people and who a win over would give some idea of Aud's progress.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:22

Coconut wrote:Discounting Europeans on the basis of their nationality is something the Americans do very well without Europeans doing it as well.

But I'm not, I'm just evaluating them based on who they have fought and how they got on.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:31

I think Harrison should got after the EBU title. If he beats Vidoz he then holds the aces over Allegedly as he'll want the likes of Sprott, Williams, Skelton to get a crack at the title. I'm sure that might be in his thinking to get back at him for closing off the British belt.

And Vidoz would doubtless be keen to avenge his olympic defeat.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:34

nickd wrote:I think Harrison should got after the EBU title. If he beats Vidoz he then holds the aces over Allegedly as he'll want the likes of Sprott, Williams, Skelton to get a crack at the title. I'm sure that might be in his thinking to get back at him for closing off the British belt.

And Vidoz would doubtless be keen to avenge his olympic defeat.

I think he could definitely beat Vidoz again, he beat him pretty handily in Sydney and Vidoz is much the same fighter, strong and tough but not in Harrison's skill-bracket. But now he's based in the States and appearing on Goossen cards he will probably make quicker progress staying over there.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:37

Chopping Right wrote:
nickd wrote:I think Harrison should got after the EBU title. If he beats Vidoz he then holds the aces over Allegedly as he'll want the likes of Sprott, Williams, Skelton to get a crack at the title. I'm sure that might be in his thinking to get back at him for closing off the British belt.

And Vidoz would doubtless be keen to avenge his olympic defeat.
I think he could definitely beat Vidoz again, he beat him pretty handily in Sydney and Vidoz is much the same fighter, strong and tough but not in Harrison's skill-bracket. But now he's based in the States and appearing on Goossen cards he will probably make quicker progress staying over there.

Plus Vidoz v Sprott has to happen next, so Mr Warren could well have the European title back pretty damn soon.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:49

Chopping Right wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:There are Pros and Cons for either route. I personally think that Audley would have learnt more from the Hersisa/Bonin fights than the Francis one. What suitable "gatekeepers" would you have suggested for his 15th/ 17th opponents instead of Bonin/Hersisa?
Good question, but I wasn't really thinking about British gatekeepers like Julius. Given that he was an Olympic Gold medallist I was hoping for the same sort of guys Lennox was facing. Lewis' 15th fight was against an unbeaten Gary Mason, his next fight was against an aging former champ in Mike Weaver, and after that is was Sky's own Glenn McCrory who had been an IBF cruiser champ shortly beforehand. I think that's the sort of calibre I'd been hoping for, so translating that into modern names maybe you'd be looking at David Izon, Vassily Jirov, Michael Moorer, that sort of level. Basically people who have been in with other international-level people and who a win over would give some idea of Aud's progress.

As I said there are pros and cons for either route, but the likes of Jirov and Moorer are not realistic opponents IMO for a fighter without 20 fights. Lewis's career was progressed very quickly, so i don't think it is fair to criticise Audleys career for not being as quick as his (Lewis is an all time great). If you compare him to Brock, Peter, Vidoz, Beck etc than Audley is holding his own in terms of how many fights he has had and how quick his standard of opponents have progressed

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:56

Chambers2 wrote:If you compare him to Brock, Peter, Vidoz, Beck etc than Audley is holding his own in terms of how many fights he has had and how quick his standard of opponents have progressed

Well I can live with that, perhaps I was being a bit too ambitious for Audley. Personally I think he could have beaten guys like Jirov and Moorer with something to spare, an Olympic gold generally denotes a pretty special fighter, and I think I'm frustrated with him as much as anything. Personally I think he is one of those fighters who needs better opponents to force them to up his game, in the same way Lennox often furstrated us by doing enough and no more against less dangerous opposition.

I do find it refreshing though how we can disagree and debate an issue properly on the British forum. If this was posted in the current scene you just know we would have had somebody posting "YO MOMMA IS A HO" or similar by now

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 13 Jun 2005, 07:56

BUT

Audley's not got masses of time. Peter has ten years on him.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Jun 2005, 08:04

Not sure I can see the argument in Chambers' post to be honest.

They all turned pro within a year of each other.

One of the fighters is holder of the prestigious EBU title - having beaten a fighter who drew with the WBO mandatory challenger

One fighter is in the worlds top ten following a victory over a geniune top ten fighter.

One is being touted as the next big thing having KO'd a series of top twenty fighters, although hasn't made the next step up.

One's best opponent is Hersia and hasn't even fought a top 5 domestic opponent yet.

Oh yes, very similar progress.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Jun 2005, 09:28

Chopping Right wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:If you compare him to Brock, Peter, Vidoz, Beck etc than Audley is holding his own in terms of how many fights he has had and how quick his standard of opponents have progressed
Well I can live with that, perhaps I was being a bit too ambitious for Audley. Personally I think he could have beaten guys like Jirov and Moorer with something to spare, an Olympic gold generally denotes a pretty special fighter, and I think I'm frustrated with him as much as anything. Personally I think he is one of those fighters who needs better opponents to force them to up his game, in the same way Lennox often furstrated us by doing enough and no more against less dangerous opposition.

I do find it refreshing though how we can disagree and debate an issue properly on the British forum. If this was posted in the current scene you just know we would have had somebody posting "YO MOMMA IS A HO" or similar by now

(I never post on the general forum for that exact reason)

Yeah fair comments, I fully agree that it has been frustrating at times, but its the injuries hes had which have kept him out of the ring that have born the frustration (which he can't do a fat lot about). If Audleys plan for his next few fights go to plan then he will have fought a McCline level opponent and Peter or Brock in his first 20 fights and people will be saying what was all the fuss about

(I hope

)

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Jun 2005, 09:33

stujones wrote:Not sure I can see the argument in Chambers' post to be honest.

They all turned pro within a year of each other.

One of the fighters is holder of the prestigious EBU title - having beaten a fighter who drew with the WBO mandatory challenger

One fighter is in the worlds top ten following a victory over a geniune top ten fighter.

One is being touted as the next big thing having KO'd a series of top twenty fighters, although hasn't made the next step up.

One's best opponent is Hersia and hasn't even fought a top 5 domestic opponent yet.

Oh yes, very similar progress.

I have just reread my post and I didn't phrase what I meant very well, a better way of saying it would have been, compare the first 18 opponents of each of the listed contenders and Audley has held his own.

IF Audleys prospective next 2 fights come off then he will have progressed quicker than the others in terms of how many fights it has taken him to get where he is. If it wasn't for injuries Audley would be at the same level as the others are now IMO

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Jun 2005, 09:36

Coconut wrote:BUT

Audley's not got masses of time. Peter has ten years on him.

I agree Audley won't have as much time at the top as Peter and co, but he can't afford to take short cuts to get the top. hHe has to gain the experience along the way the same as everyone else does

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 13 Jun 2005, 09:44

Chambers2 wrote:
Coconut wrote:BUT

Audley's not got masses of time. Peter has ten years on him.
I agree Audley won't have as much time at the top as Peter and co, but he can't afford to take short cuts to get the top. hHe has to gain the experience along the way the same as everyone else does

Absolutely right, but at the moment it seems like he's taking the long route to nowhere. On top of which, the current heavyweight scene is so riddled with ordinariness that missing out on a full tranche of 'gatekeeper' fights is excusable, especially when you've only got a couple of years of athletic prime left. He should have gained the experience fighting international amateurs for years. He was Britain's top heavy for yonks.

I used to believe in Audley, but he really isn't going fast enough. He won the Olympics five years ago now. The guy he beat for the title, who was pretty average, just won the European belt. For Vidoz, that's decent progression. Harrison has / had much more to offer ability-wise, but his caginess has done him no favours.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Jun 2005, 09:56

Coconut wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
Coconut wrote:BUT

Audley's not got masses of time. Peter has ten years on him.
I agree Audley won't have as much time at the top as Peter and co, but he can't afford to take short cuts to get the top. hHe has to gain the experience along the way the same as everyone else does

Absolutely right, but at the moment it seems like he's taking the long route to nowhere. On top of which, the current heavyweight scene is so riddled with ordinariness that missing out on a full tranche of 'gatekeeper' fights is excusable, especially when you've only got a couple of years of athletic prime left. He should have gained the experience fighting international amateurs for years. He was Britain's top heavy for yonks.

I used to believe in Audley, but he really isn't going fast enough. He won the Olympics five years ago now. The guy he beat for the title, who was pretty average, just won the European belt. For Vidoz, that's decent progression. Harrison has / had much more to offer ability-wise, but his caginess has done him no favours.

Audley has lost 2 of those 5 years to injury though.

He is cagey in the ring, but thats his counter-punching style. I believe that we will see the best of Audley when he is in with a more aggressive opponent who is gonna come after him. We should get to find out if my theory is true in his next couple of fights

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Jun 2005, 12:41

Chambers2 wrote:
IF Audleys prospective next 2 fights come off then he will have progressed quicker than the others in terms of how many fights it has taken him to get where he is. If it wasn't for injuries Audley would be at the same level as the others are now IMO

Names please, who are these two next fighters.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 13 Jun 2005, 14:40

I haven't got round to commenting on Audleys latest showing until now.

For a year out of the ring I didn't think he was that bad. Very low output but after the time out I would tend to believe him on this occassion that he wanted the rounds.

And I did like the finish, he looked like he just decided to take Davis out of there, lowered the head and undertook an altogether more menacing demeanour, one lightning straight left through the middle and it was curtains. Don't see many 18st Heavyweights doing that these days.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 14 Jun 2005, 04:02

stujones wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
IF Audleys prospective next 2 fights come off then he will have progressed quicker than the others in terms of how many fights it has taken him to get where he is. If it wasn't for injuries Audley would be at the same level as the others are now IMO
Names please, who are these two next fighters.

Hes said he wants a McCline level opponent next and then Peter or Brock

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 14 Jun 2005, 12:59

Had an interesting thought whilst languashing in the gutter as usual today...

Harrison-Akinwande.

Akinwande would provide a bit more action and movement - make Audley work and quicken up a bit and keep him on his toes. That's what I think he needs

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Jun 2005, 13:56

Chambers2 wrote:
stujones wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
IF Audleys prospective next 2 fights come off then he will have progressed quicker than the others in terms of how many fights it has taken him to get where he is. If it wasn't for injuries Audley would be at the same level as the others are now IMO
Names please, who are these two next fighters.
Hes said he wants a McCline level opponent next and then Peter or Brock

That would be blooming good if it happens, I hope I am wrong but I am sceptical that it will happen.

Akinwande would be a good test also, although I wouldn't mind seeing Henry in a decent fight first (to see what he has left). He was good vs Hoffmann, but that is some time ago now.

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 14 Jun 2005, 19:11

stujones wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
stujones wrote: Names please, who are these two next fighters.
Hes said he wants a McCline level opponent next and then Peter or Brock
That would be blooming good if it happens, I hope I am wrong but I am sceptical that it will happen.

Akinwande would be a good test also, although I wouldn't mind seeing Henry in a decent fight first (to see what he has left). He was good vs Hoffmann, but that is some time ago now.

In 12 months time all of the Audley arguments will be over IMO, he will either be a national hero who proved everone wrong or he will be known as the "we all knew he was crap".

I've spent the last 4 years trying to put some balance to all the Audley threads on various forums and I can't fornicating wait for some answers

COME ON AUDLEY!!!