Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Chuck1052]

Many journeymen or clubfighters are capable fighters. I do agree that prospects have to be carefully matched at the beginning, but they also should be challenged to some degree in order for them to learn how to be solid professional fighters.

- Chuck Johnston

[kikibalt]

"Orlando de la Fuentes, whose birth name is Eugene but prefers to go by the name "Roy," trained Elvis Presley for the 1962 movie Kid Galahad. (Photo.) He was also Presley's final opponent in that movie".

I was reading Orlando De La Fuentes's bio on BoxRec and I seen where they have a few things wrong. First of all Orlando's birth name is not Eugene, its Ernest, and its not De La Fuentes, though that is his ring name, his real last name is Fuentes, second he was not Elvis Presley's final opponent in the Kid Galahad movie, that was Orlando's brother, Ray De La Fuentes. I have known the De La Fuentes from way back in the '50's when they were just the Fuentes's. The name Orlando belongs to a sibling. The father, Bob Fuentes, thought that Orlando De La Fuentes sounded better than Ernest, Ernie or Roy Fuentes, and I agree with big Bob Fuentes. Roy?, don't know when or where Orlando pick that name up.
Just trivial stuff in the history of L.A. boxing that you will only find in the "Classic American West Coast Boxing" thread....

[Panzerfaust]

I agree with Chuck, there has to be a certain degree of challenge.. a guy that shows up to lie down from the first jab thrown is really not worth the time

[kikibalt]

I agree with Chuck, there has to be a certain degree of challenge.. a guy that shows up to lie down from the first jab thrown is really not worth the time

Ah!, but as managers we like those kind of guys.....

[Panzerfaust]

I agree with Chuck, there has to be a certain degree of challenge.. a guy that shows up to lie down from the first jab thrown is really not worth the time

Ah!, but as managers we like those kind of guys.....

I bet they come cheap too

[kikibalt]

I agree with Chuck, there has to be a certain degree of challenge.. a guy that shows up to lie down from the first jab thrown is really not worth the time

Ah!, but as managers we like those kind of guys.....

I bet they come cheap too

As cheap as a six pack of beer, sometimes!!...

[Rick Farris]

Rick, Malcolm "Flash" Gordon, the publisher and editor of an "underground" boxing publication during the 1970s and 1980s, always said, "Stiffs don't teach you nothin'." This came to mind because Flash use to lambast the management of Gerry Cooney and Howard Davis for putting their charges in too much "soft" opposition.

- Chuck Johnston

He was right about that, Chuck.

[Rick Farris]

Many journeymen or clubfighters are capable fighters. I do agree that prospects have to be carefully matched at the beginning, but they also should be challenged to some degree in order for them to learn how to be solid professional fighters.

- Chuck Johnston

[Rick Farris]

"Orlando de la Fuentes, whose birth name is Eugene but prefers to go by the name "Roy," trained Elvis Presley for the 1962 movie Kid Galahad. (Photo.) He was also Presley's final opponent in that movie".

I was reading Orlando De La Fuentes's bio on BoxRec and I seen where they have a few things wrong. First of all Orlando's birth name is not Eugene, its Ernest, and its not De La Fuentes, though that is his ring name, his real last name is Fuentes, second he was not Elvis Presley's final opponent in the Kid Galahad movie, that was Orlando's brother, Ray De La Fuentes. I have known the De La Fuentes from way back in the '50's when they were just the Fuentes's. The name Orlando belongs to a sibling. The father, Bob Fuentes, thought that Orlando De La Fuentes sounded better than Ernest, Ernie or Roy Fuentes, and I agree with big Bob Fuentes. Roy?, don't know when or where Orlando pick that name up.
Just trivial stuff in the history of L.A. boxing that you will only find in the "Classic American West Coast Boxing" thread....

A Classic American West Coast Boxing family . . .

Boxrec also has Dwight Hawkins year of birth listed as 1938, when it was actually 1940.
Boxrec is using the date provided by a phony birth certificate that provided "The Hawk" his pro license at age 15.
No matter. By age 29, Dwight Hawkins had been fighting professionally for half of his life. He was old as a fighter, and well traveled, far beyond the 31 years Boxrec suggests.
And Frank, thanks for the info on one boxing's class acts, Orlando De La Fuentes. What a great family!
Ramon Fuentes was a helluva fighter, handed Art Aragon a loss at the Olympic.

[Rick Farris]

Another Fillipino southpaw champion, Flash Elorde vs. the great Sandy Saddler . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzlKrmXDGNw

Elorde's career spanned twenty years (1951-71). He fought eight times in Northern California in 1956, including his title fights with Sandy Saddler in San Franciso.
Great fighter!

[kikibalt]

"Orlando de la Fuentes, whose birth name is Eugene but prefers to go by the name "Roy," trained Elvis Presley for the 1962 movie Kid Galahad. (Photo.) He was also Presley's final opponent in that movie".

I was reading Orlando De La Fuentes's bio on BoxRec and I seen where they have a few things wrong. First of all Orlando's birth name is not Eugene, its Ernest, and its not De La Fuentes, though that is his ring name, his real last name is Fuentes, second he was not Elvis Presley's final opponent in the Kid Galahad movie, that was Orlando's brother, Ray De La Fuentes. I have known the De La Fuentes from way back in the '50's when they were just the Fuentes's. The name Orlando belongs to a sibling. The father, Bob Fuentes, thought that Orlando De La Fuentes sounded better than Ernest, Ernie or Roy Fuentes, and I agree with big Bob Fuentes. Roy?, don't know when or where Orlando pick that name up.
Just trivial stuff in the history of L.A. boxing that you will only find in the "Classic American West Coast Boxing" thread....

A Classic American West Coast Boxing family . . .

Boxrec also has Dwight Hawkins year of birth listed as 1938, when it was actually 1940.
Boxrec is using the date provided by a phony birth certificate that provided "The Hawk" his pro license at age 15.
No matter. By age 29, Dwight Hawkins had been fighting professionally for half of his life. He was old as a fighter, and well traveled, far beyond the 31 years Boxrec suggests.
And Frank, thanks for the info on one boxing's class acts, Orlando De La Fuentes. What a great family!
Ramon Fuentes was a helluva fighter, handed Art Aragon a loss at the Olympic.

Rick, Yes, the De La Fuentes are a big part of L.A.'s boxing history, they go way, way back. I was at the Fuentes/Aragon fight, up in the peanut galley. saw Ramon and his brother Jess fight numerous times at the Olympic.

[Rick Farris]

"Orlando de la Fuentes, whose birth name is Eugene but prefers to go by the name "Roy," trained Elvis Presley for the 1962 movie Kid Galahad. (Photo.) He was also Presley's final opponent in that movie".

I was reading Orlando De La Fuentes's bio on BoxRec and I seen where they have a few things wrong. First of all Orlando's birth name is not Eugene, its Ernest, and its not De La Fuentes, though that is his ring name, his real last name is Fuentes, second he was not Elvis Presley's final opponent in the Kid Galahad movie, that was Orlando's brother, Ray De La Fuentes. I have known the De La Fuentes from way back in the '50's when they were just the Fuentes's. The name Orlando belongs to a sibling. The father, Bob Fuentes, thought that Orlando De La Fuentes sounded better than Ernest, Ernie or Roy Fuentes, and I agree with big Bob Fuentes. Roy?, don't know when or where Orlando pick that name up.
Just trivial stuff in the history of L.A. boxing that you will only find in the "Classic American West Coast Boxing" thread....

A Classic American West Coast Boxing family . . .

Boxrec also has Dwight Hawkins year of birth listed as 1938, when it was actually 1940.
Boxrec is using the date provided by a phony birth certificate that provided "The Hawk" his pro license at age 15.
No matter. By age 29, Dwight Hawkins had been fighting professionally for half of his life. He was old as a fighter, and well traveled, far beyond the 31 years Boxrec suggests.
And Frank, thanks for the info on one boxing's class acts, Orlando De La Fuentes. What a great family!
Ramon Fuentes was a helluva fighter, handed Art Aragon a loss at the Olympic.

Rick, Yes, the De La Fuentes are a big part of L.A.'s boxing history, they go way, way back. I was at the Fuentes/Aragon fight, up in the peanut galley. saw Ramon and his brother Jess fight numerous times at the Olympic.

Didn't one of the older Fuentes fight Jack Dempsey?

[kikibalt]

A Classic American West Coast Boxing family . . .

Boxrec also has Dwight Hawkins year of birth listed as 1938, when it was actually 1940.
Boxrec is using the date provided by a phony birth certificate that provided "The Hawk" his pro license at age 15.
No matter. By age 29, Dwight Hawkins had been fighting professionally for half of his life. He was old as a fighter, and well traveled, far beyond the 31 years Boxrec suggests.
And Frank, thanks for the info on one boxing's class acts, Orlando De La Fuentes. What a great family!
Ramon Fuentes was a helluva fighter, handed Art Aragon a loss at the Olympic.

Rick, Yes, the De La Fuentes are a big part of L.A.'s boxing history, they go way, way back. I was at the Fuentes/Aragon fight, up in the peanut galley. saw Ramon and his brother Jess fight numerous times at the Olympic.

Didn't one of the older Fuentes fight Jack Dempsey?

That was uncle Tony...

[kikibalt]

Rick, Bob and Tony Fuentes were inducted into the CBHOF in 2009

[raylawpc]

Rick, Malcolm "Flash" Gordon, the publisher and editor of an "underground" boxing publication during the 1970s and 1980s, always said, "Stiffs don't teach you nothin'." This came to mind because Flash use to lambast the management of Gerry Cooney and Howard Davis for putting their charges in too much "soft" opposition.

- Chuck Johnston

He was right about that, Chuck.

I cannot agree with Flash catagorically. Depending on where the fighter is in his career, an easy win can built confidence. I think you have to blend easy fights (i.e. against stiffs) with fights your boxer should win but will learn something from (i.e., against journeymen), with true challenges. I think you need all three to create a legitimate challenger.

Look at the Baltazar boys: Frank did a great job in blending the skill levels of his sons' opponents and turned both his boys into legitimate contenders who had a chance with anyone.

BTW, I used to love Flash's weekly newsletter - I can't remember the day it came into O'Grady's office, but on that day I went straight to the office after classes to read whatg Flash had written. But Flash never had a fight, never trained a fighter, never managed a fighter, and never promoted a fight. As far as I know, he never even worked out in a gym. You have to keep in perspective that Flash was little more than a knowledgable fight fan.

[kikibalt]

Rick, Malcolm "Flash" Gordon, the publisher and editor of an "underground" boxing publication during the 1970s and 1980s, always said, "Stiffs don't teach you nothin'." This came to mind because Flash use to lambast the management of Gerry Cooney and Howard Davis for putting their charges in too much "soft" opposition.

- Chuck Johnston

He was right about that, Chuck.

I cannot agree with Flash catagorically. Depending on where the fighter is in his career, an easy win can built confidence. I think you have to blend easy fights (i.e. against stiffs) with fights your boxer should win but will learn something from (i.e., against journeymen), with true challenges. I think you need all three to create a legitimate challenger.

Look at the Baltazar boys: Frank did a great job in blending the skill levels of his sons' opponents and turned both his boys into legitimate contenders who had a chance with anyone.

BTW, I used to love Flash's weekly newsletter - I can't remember the day it came into O'Grady's office, but on that day I went straight to the office after classes to read whatg Flash had written. But Flash never had a fight, never trained a fighter, never managed a fighter, and never promoted a fight. As far as I know, he never even worked out in a gym. You have to keep in perspective that Flash was little more than a knowledgable fight fan.

Thanks for the plug Tom...

I always thought Flash's rag was nothing more than the National Enquirer of boxing....

[raylawpc]

Well, it's true Frank. Since I've gotten to know you, I've spent my share of time looking at Tony's and Frankie's records. I think you did a great job. You gave the boys exactly the right mix of confidence building fights and learning experiences in their early years then, when they were ready, true challenges. I think you did a marvelous job. Both boys were legitimate contenders.

If either one of my boys had been boxers, I would have wanted you to manage them.

[Rick Farris]

Rick, Malcolm "Flash" Gordon, the publisher and editor of an "underground" boxing publication during the 1970s and 1980s, always said, "Stiffs don't teach you nothin'." This came to mind because Flash use to lambast the management of Gerry Cooney and Howard Davis for putting their charges in too much "soft" opposition.

- Chuck Johnston

He was right about that, Chuck.

I cannot agree with Flash catagorically. Depending on where the fighter is in his career, an easy win can built confidence. I think you have to blend easy fights (i.e. against stiffs) with fights your boxer should win but will learn something from (i.e., against journeymen), with true challenges. I think you need all three to create a legitimate challenger.

Look at the Baltazar boys: Frank did a great job in blending the skill levels of his sons' opponents and turned both his boys into legitimate contenders who had a chance with anyone.

BTW, I used to love Flash's weekly newsletter - I can't remember the day it came into O'Grady's office, but on that day I went straight to the office after classes to read whatg Flash had written. But Flash never had a fight, never trained a fighter, never managed a fighter, and never promoted a fight. As far as I know, he never even worked out in a gym. You have to keep in perspective that Flash was little more than a knowledgable fight fan.

I used to like his little newsletter publication, but aside from that I know nothing of the man. He certainly wasn't around boxing (or at least known to anybody) back when I was fighting.
Isn't it true that we are all trying to say the same thing? That an early dose of confidence builders is a good thing, so long as they don't become a habit.
Only true competition, gradually served, is the measuring stick to a boxers career. Today's method of building a boxer is not good for the boxers, or the fans.
In the end, everybody loses, especially the sport of boxing.
There is no maybe this, or maybe that, there is only ONE way to build a boxer correctly, and sadly few boxers have the luxury of management that can or will raise their boxer in that manner.
As for the Baltazar's, yes they were brought up correctly. At age 18, with five pro fights under his belt, Frankie Jr. suddenly stepped into his first main event, a ten rounder.
Frank took a chance knowing what his son was ready for, and he made a good decision. An impressive win for Fernie.

[Rick Farris]

Rick, Bob and Tony Fuentes were inducted into the CBHOF in 2009

I remember, I was sitting at your table.

[Rick Farris]

I always thought Flash's rag was nothing more than the National Enquirer of boxing....
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Yeah, the only thing that I really looked for in the publication was the odds for future bouts.
At the time I was betting fights, and Flash's publication was a good source for opening odds on a match.
Aside from that, I don't recall looking at anything else written.

[raylawpc]

Isn't it true that we are all trying to say the same thing? That an early dose of confidence builders is a good thing, so long as they don't become a habit.

Yes. And sometimes a late dose is good, too, if your fighter has lost a couple of big ones and his confidence might be lagging.

[kikibalt]

Rick, Bob and Tony Fuentes were inducted into the CBHOF in 2009

I remember, I was sitting at your table.

Yes, you were....

[raylawpc]

I always thought Flash's rag was nothing more than the National Enquirer of boxing....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, the only thing that I really looked for in the publication was the odds for future bouts.
At the time I was betting fights, and Flash's publication was a good source for opening odds on a match.
Aside from that, I don't recall looking at anything else written.

I liked reading it because he didn't mince words. I liked the way he wrote. Pat and I would read stories to one another, and laugh when he really skewered some poor promotor, manager, or Ring magazine. Gosh!, how he hated Nat Loubet, Johnny Ort and Ring magazine! Also, because it was produced quickly and cheaply, you got results from around the world just a week or two after they happened. Pre-internet, that was something I really liked about it, particularly living out in the Midwest where boxing coverage in our newspapers was pretty limited.

Also, as I recall, he was accurate in what he reported. I don't recall anyone ever asserting - much less proving - that anything he wrote was incorrect. After all, he was the one who exposed the ABCTV-Ring Magazine-USA boxing championship fraud back in the mid-1970s.

[Panzerfaust]

Wasent that the guy who used the newsletter to hype up a jewish heavy that didnt even exist?

[raylawpc]

Wasent that the guy who used the newsletter to hype up a jewish heavy that didnt even exist?

No, quite the opposite. As I recall, Gordon exposed the guy who hyped up a Jewish heavyweight that didn't exist.