Who would you support, Ex-con versus ex-copper ?

[palooka]

They're not supposed to be upholding the law; people in custody are to be in safe keeping by trained professionals. There are plenty of nut jobs around and some real bad apples in society; some of them are in positions of authority.

[keithmoonhangover]

They're not supposed to be upholding the law; people in custody are to be in safe keeping by trained professionals. There are plenty of nut jobs around and some real bad apples in society; some of them are in positions of authority.

You are correct, there are good and bad in all walks of society. More over, there are people that do bad things in all walks of society.

However, one thing is certain. Unless they were wrongly convicted, Ex-cons have already done something bad. That is a FACT.

[palooka]

I agree; but also have to take into account some of the many wrongful convictions that have put innocent people in jail; sometimes for very long stretches.

[keithmoonhangover]

I agree; but also have to take into account some of the many wrongful convictions that have put innocent people in jail; sometimes for very long stretches.

I also agree, that's why I mentioned it.

The facts are, that there are a lot of good cops out there, who actually do want to make the world a better place.

How many criminals could you say the same about?

[Teddy's Toupee]

They're both pricks so none!

You did call me a prick. I'm over it now and you can me in person if you like to give me a giggle and I won't hit you. Make sure you introduce yourself first though so I don't think its some random person approaching me and making me fear harm because I may then have to hurt you. Like I said I have never hurt anyone who I didn't believe had the intention of hurting me. I don't count hurt feelings in the same catagory as physical harm :-)

What's up "defecatingdaily", no considered response to me labelling you a moral coward? Stop picking on "the truth".

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

They're both pricks so none!

You did call me a prick. I'm over it now and you can me in person if you like to give me a giggle and I won't hit you. Make sure you introduce yourself first though so I don't think its some random person approaching me and making me fear harm because I may then have to hurt you. Like I said I have never hurt anyone who I didn't believe had the intention of hurting me. I don't count hurt feelings in the same catagory as physical harm :-)

What's up "defecatingdaily", no considered response to me labelling you a moral coward? Stop picking on "the truth".

And you call me a troll!

[demolitiondaley]

They're both pricks so none!

You did call me a prick. I'm over it now and you can me in person if you like to give me a giggle and I won't hit you. Make sure you introduce yourself first though so I don't think its some random person approaching me and making me fear harm because I may then have to hurt you. Like I said I have never hurt anyone who I didn't believe had the intention of hurting me. I don't count hurt feelings in the same catagory as physical harm :-)

What's up "defecatingdaily", no considered response to me labelling you a moral coward? Stop picking on "the truth".

Sorry I missed that dig, theres that much shite in this thread to pick through. I have never stood by and watched other cops dish out unecessary pain on anyone, even on nonces. I even went as far as to take a steel toe capped boot in the ribs that was aimed for a roid raging drug dealer's head who I had just chinned as he was swinging for me. I
Dropped him with a peach of a straight right on the button (pity I've not managed that in the ring I know but the guy was about 14st rather than my usual 17st opponent) and then jumped on him to slap some cuffs on him while he was still dazed. My red misted mate then tried to put the boot in, so don't accuse me of moral cowardice you big keyboard warrior

[davidas]

Does that include all the real men you lost to in the ring as opposed to the 7 stone junkies, drunks and kids you and your ever so brave colleagues usually like to throw their weight around with? The police are bullies, and like all bullies they are cowards.

There have been 333 deaths in police custody since 1998.

How many ring deaths since 1998; (when there is a level playing field)?

333 deaths in police custody you say. Well let me ask you this, how many people have been killed by ex-cons since 1998?

and how many through the fault of the police? In an station with cctv cameras everywhere and procedures left right and centre you'd know about it. Maybe theres been one or two cases of misconduct and the rest due to the ill health/drug addictions of those actually IN custody? The ones of misconduct you see on every news channel/newspaper and theres certainly not been 333 so that argument hold NO weight whatsoever!
The problem seems to be with certain INDIVIDUAL officers and the laws an officer has to uphold. They are in the minority, however they are always remembered and discussed. The vast majority are honest chaps who work for the right reasons.

[Teddy's Toupee]

You did call me a prick. I'm over it now and you can me in person if you like to give me a giggle and I won't hit you. Make sure you introduce yourself first though so I don't think its some random person approaching me and making me fear harm because I may then have to hurt you. Like I said I have never hurt anyone who I didn't believe had the intention of hurting me. I don't count hurt feelings in the same catagory as physical harm :-)

What's up "defecatingdaily", no considered response to me labelling you a moral coward? Stop picking on "the truth".

Sorry I missed that dig, theres that much shite in this thread to pick through. I have never stood by and watched other cops dish out unecessary pain on anyone, even on nonces. I even went as far as to take a steel toe capped boot in the ribs that was aimed for a roid raging drug dealer's head who I had just chinned as he was swinging for me. I
Dropped him with a peach of a straight right on the button (pity I've not managed that in the ring I know but the guy was about 14st rather than my usual 17st opponent) and then jumped on him to slap some cuffs on him while he was still dazed. My red misted mate then tried to put the boot in, so don't accuse me of moral cowardice you big keyboard warrior

Well that must be true, because a police officer says it is. By the way I'm an ex-pro boxer myself and nobody managed to knock my teeth out or break my nose. No keyboard warriors here.

[Teddy's Toupee]

Does that include all the real men you lost to in the ring as opposed to the 7 stone junkies, drunks and kids you and your ever so brave colleagues usually like to throw their weight around with? The police are bullies, and like all bullies they are cowards.

There have been 333 deaths in police custody since 1998.

How many ring deaths since 1998; (when there is a level playing field)?

333 deaths in police custody you say. Well let me ask you this, how many people have been killed by ex-cons since 1998?

and how many through the fault of the police? In an station with cctv cameras everywhere and procedures left right and centre you'd know about it. Maybe theres been one or two cases of misconduct and the rest due to the ill health/drug addictions of those actually IN custody? The ones of misconduct you see on every news channel/newspaper and theres certainly not been 333 so that argument hold NO weight whatsoever!
The problem seems to be with certain INDIVIDUAL officers and the laws an officer has to uphold. They are in the minority, however they are always remembered and discussed. The vast majority are honest chaps who work for the right reasons.

There is a culture of contempt within the police towards the the public, you know, those people who pay for the police's generous salaries, perks and pensions. Do these "individual officers" always act in isolation, away from their honest colleauges or the all-seeing cctv? Power can have a corrosive effect on people, especially those who seek to have it. By the way, this may only be an anecdotal, though not an apocryphal, story, but a police officer once told me he was only in the job for the early retirement age and pension, as were most of his colleauges. And that must be true because a police officer told me it is.

[larry cake]

Does that include all the real men you lost to in the ring as opposed to the 7 stone junkies, drunks and kids you and your ever so brave colleagues usually like to throw their weight around with? The police are bullies, and like all bullies they are cowards.

There have been 333 deaths in police custody since 1998.

How many ring deaths since 1998; (when there is a level playing field)?

333 deaths in police custody you say. Well let me ask you this, how many people have been killed by ex-cons since 1998?

and how many through the fault of the police? In an station with cctv cameras everywhere and procedures left right and centre you'd know about it. Maybe theres been one or two cases of misconduct and the rest due to the ill health/drug addictions of those actually IN custody? The ones of misconduct you see on every news channel/newspaper and theres certainly not been 333 so that argument hold NO weight whatsoever!
The problem seems to be with certain INDIVIDUAL officers and the laws an officer has to uphold. They are in the minority, however they are always remembered and discussed. The vast majority are honest chaps who work for the right reasons.

im sorry mate, but i think you are naive if you think only one or two deaths in police custody out of 333 are the polices fault. you are probaly correct that only a couple are INVESTIGATED as cases of misconduct, but the reality is the police will have been responsible for many of the deaths, either through direct violence or through neglect. i have been on the receiving end many a time, some deserved some not, and one thing im absolutley certain is that the vast majority of police officers are NOT honest chaps, they constantly break the law whilst at work wheter it be traffic offences, threatening people or assaulting people.

as for howard being a coward. well ive seen howard box and he is no coward, and as a police officer i do belive he will of been a decent enough one. i think it can be a stressful job and howard probaly used his boxing to let of a bit of steam, but i belive a lot of coppers let of some steam while on the job ( not a sexual referance ).
the fact is were living in whats fast becoming a police state, and with the greater powers the police are getting they are only going to get worse.

copper or ex con? ex con any day.

[bluenoseshf]

EX-Con EVERY TIME!!!!!


I mean sure the ex-con might have been a murderer, a rapist, a sex offender, a drug dealer, a mugger, a junkie, a (attempted) suicide bomber, drunk driver, expense stealing politician, TOMMY SHERIDAN or some other form of vermin lowlife, But my uncles friends sisters cousins best mate once got hit off a copper so that makes coppers worse than ex-cons

[Teddy's Toupee]

EX-Con EVERY TIME!!!!!


I mean sure the ex-con might have been a murderer, a rapist, a sex offender, a drug dealer, a mugger, a junkie, a (attempted) suicide bomber, drunk driver, expense stealing politician, TOMMY SHERIDAN or some other form of vermin lowlife, But my uncles friends sisters cousins best mate once got hit off a copper so that makes coppers worse than ex-cons

I see no-one is still able to offer a reasoned critique of the valid observations I have made. All the replies I have read seem to be disturbingly irrational and reactionary. The true voice of the police and their supporters? :geek2:

[Tommy Gunn13]

EX-Con EVERY TIME!!!!!


I mean sure the ex-con might have been a murderer, a rapist, a sex offender, a drug dealer, a mugger, a junkie, a (attempted) suicide bomber, drunk driver, expense stealing politician, TOMMY SHERIDAN or some other form of vermin lowlife, But my uncles friends sisters cousins best mate once got hit off a copper so that makes coppers worse than ex-cons

I see no-one is still able to offer a reasoned critique of the valid observations I have made. All the replies I have read seem to be disturbingly irrational and reactionary. The true voice of the police and their supporters? :geek2:

This topic could run on&on...seems to me you&Simon are trying to wind Howard up for some reason,Its been said your a ex fighter,what are you hoping a fight with him?? I enjoyed reading Simons posts,but on this topic he has let himself down in my eyes..The pair off you seem to get some enjoyment of winding Howard up..Hes always came across as a good guy on these boards,dosent matter if he was on the force or not,speak as i find,if u look at my earlier post in this thread i could be anti police...

[palooka]

To be honest Tommy I got in a tit for tat thing with Carlos of Wigan. I've no real strong feelings either way; I've had dealings with the Police and for most part they've been ok. I have seen some heavy handed stuff by the Police at the weekend and know of a couple that frequent Northern Soul do's that take cocaine. I've no axe to grind with Demolition Daley; I do not know the man and neither has he done or said anything to me.

I objected to being called 'a melt' and that it was presumed I was a coward (with a hardman fetish) who would say nothing to a persons face. That pissed me off a bit; hence the retaliation and snide remarks made by me at every turn.

The issue of 'Ex con vs Ex Cop' is a complex one; if a person has had a bad experience with the Police then they're less likely to cheer for him in the ring. Society obviously needs rules (laws) and norms of behaviour and deviations need to be policed and remedied. There's no real denying that some sections of society are 'over policed' and some serious transgressions are overlooked. The Police are also pretty much a law unto themselves with no external oversight. It could also be said that the Police are an agency of the State that protect the interests of the ruling classes. I live in Doncaster and have memories of the policing of the miners strike.

The 333 deaths in Police custody are obviously not all suspicious but some of them are; and no one has been tried or convicted over a death. If there is a 'bad apple' in a station and a bit of a slap goes too far there are other 'apples' in the station who do nothing or see nothing and that certainly contributes to the Police as a whole being tarred as bad.

Teddy is more than able to make his point (which is a different view to mine); and I can say that he would say his piece regardless; he wouldn't need me to make or support a case for him.

To reiterate; I've no truck with Howard Daley; a man can choose whatever livelyhood he wants. I bit back after being called 'a melt' with a hardman fetish.

[Counter-puncher]

As this is boxing forum and not a political soapbox I won't launch into a lengthy critique of the highly politicised role the police play in society.
What has happened and is still happening to me is just a microcosm of a much bigger issue about police accountability in a putatively democratic society.
Even if Daley hasn't indulged in criminal behaviour himself , and that could be a big "if", having served on a riot squad he will have seen his colleauges commiting criminal acts of violence upon members of the public and, although paid and entrusted to uphold the law by the public, would have turned a blind eye to that criminality. Why? For an easier life in job? Because it's not the done thing to hold fellow officers up to the same standards of lawful behaviour that people like you and I are expected to adhere to? Whichever way you look at it, it's moral cowardice. Here endeth the sermon.

okay, look I am going to try and have a conversation about this.

i am trying to get the logic you have used. basically, you took a kicking in a police cell. and i assume from the bold bit that you are still being persecuted, somehow, by policemen. like some kind of ongoing campaign type thing.

then, it seems, you have complete confidence that even *if* Howard hasn't beaten people up himself, he *must* have seen it and done nothing, therefore even *if* he isn't your Type A Policeman (filth scum bully coward etc) who beats people up, he is simply your lesser-spotted Type B Policeman who simply watches it happen.

am I about right so far?

cos it seems to me that you're making some big assumptions- saying its all but a fact that Howard MUST have witnessed Police violence on civvies, etc etc

on similar lines i could make all kinds of assumptions about you. i could assume that the coppers who gave you a hiding, probably had good reason, in fact I see people all the time getting arrested and I think to myself 'I hope they give that lowlife a good shoeing in the van'.

so, yeah, people get a kicking off the plod now and then, but I say most of the time they probably deserve it anyway. along the lines of those assumptions, you were probably one of those angry violent drunks, you probably hit a woman in the street, in fact it was only the timely intervention of one of our boys in blue that stopped you from beating up a 14 year old then strangling his dog, then running his nan over as you stole his car for a gettaway.

i mean, maybe I am wrong on my assumptions, maybe not. surely you can't deny that there are plenty out there who deserve the kicking they get, though?

[bluenoseshf]

EX-Con EVERY TIME!!!!!


I mean sure the ex-con might have been a murderer, a rapist, a sex offender, a drug dealer, a mugger, a junkie, a (attempted) suicide bomber, drunk driver, expense stealing politician, TOMMY SHERIDAN or some other form of vermin lowlife, But my uncles friends sisters cousins best mate once got hit off a copper so that makes coppers worse than ex-cons

I see no-one is still able to offer a reasoned critique of the valid observations I have made. All the replies I have read seem to be disturbingly irrational and reactionary. The true voice of the police and their supporters? :geek2:

I was making an over exaggerated point to prove the absurdity of this thread, which in my opinion has no place on a boxing forum. A lot of people seem to siding with the Ex cons as they have had a bad experience with the a police officer but seem to disregard all the evil and stupid criminals that make up the majority of ex-cons.

Yes the police force does have some bad apples but the vast majority are honest regular people trying to make a living in a job that gets harder every year due to red tape, soft judges sentences and cushy prisons.

I get the feeling that most people in this thread have some sort of grunge with the police, are criminal or have relatives who are criminals.

[Tommy Gunn13]

To be honest Tommy I got in a tit for tat thing with Carlos of Wigan. I've no real strong feelings either way; I've had dealings with the Police and for most part they've been ok. I have seen some heavy handed stuff by the Police at the weekend and know of a couple that frequent Northern Soul do's that take cocaine. I've no axe to grind with Demolition Daley; I do not know the man and neither has he done or said anything to me.

I objected to being called 'a melt' and that it was presumed I was a coward (with a hardman fetish) who would say nothing to a persons face. That pissed me off a bit; hence the retaliation and snide remarks made by me at every turn.

The issue of 'Ex con vs Ex Cop' is a complex one; if a person has had a bad experience with the Police then they're less likely to cheer for him in the ring. Society obviously needs rules (laws) and norms of behaviour and deviations need to be policed and remedied. There's no real denying that some sections of society are 'over policed' and some serious transgressions are overlooked. The Police are also pretty much a law unto themselves with no external oversight.

The 333 deaths in Police custody are obviously not all suspicious but some of them are; and no one has been tried or convicted over a death. If there is a 'bad apple' in a station and a bit of a slap goes too far there are other 'apples' in the station who do nothing or see nothing and that certainly contributes to the Police as a whole being tarred as bad.

Teddy is more than able to make his point (which is a different view to mine); and I can say that he would say his piece regardless.

I just thought you two was being a tad disrespectful toward Howard in his profession(ex)and after a reaction...Ive never been a lover of the police&ive done wrong&have been inside many year ago...The country would be in a worse place if we didnt have them if we agree or not

[palooka]

Which post of mine gave you that impression Tommy?

[Broc]

Ive had a few tear ups in the past and a few cops were out to nab me or my brothers fo anything that they could, but Im a grown man now and I know that th were just doing their job.

Good luck to you Demolition Daley. I believe what you are saying and the streets are safer because of cops like you were.

Its all fine and well for us young fit men to slag off the police, but when the chips are down we rely on them to look after the weak, old and feeble in society.

[Tommy Gunn13]

Which post of mine gave you that impression Tommy?

There was a post or two on this thread i thought you&Teddy was trying to wind Howard up..i could be wrong,but thats how i thought it came across(cant be arsed to look thru 4pages)

[damianhucker1]

as far as the police go heres my view , and im not really ANTI police , although reading this you may think i was .
ive myself had an absolute pummelling from them (4 of them ) in a police cell when i was 16 having been arrested for apparantly mugging someone of a gold ring , a crime a didnt commit , ive done some stuff in the past but in this instance my plea of not guilty was a genuine one , i got found guilty in court though , with no evidence , and even had cctv showing me and a friend chatting up 2 girls on screen whilst the robberry was taking place further up the screen , yet we somehow still got found guilty , and my solicitor said i shouldnt appeal in case i got a worse sentance as it could carry a custodial sentance ,whearas i only got a suspended sentance , my pal appealed and got the case thrown out , but was too late for me i had the mugging on my rcord for good , The reason i took a kicking off those officers was due to the fact that i refused to be strip searched without an appropriate adult present , something i was completely within my rights to do so as the police didnt and as far as im aware still dont consider you an adult until 17 years old .

My biological father was a police officer and using his abuse of his position of trust got my 15 year old mum pregnant (conceiving me) , did he get done for this ? no , he was politely asked to leave the force to save face , and went into the fire service instead in which he eventually went on to earn over £80k per year as the notts fire chief , and after his mandatory time to step down he now works as the lead investigation officer or something along those lines , his wife is a mounted police officer , i am his only child , yet ive never met him despite him knowing where i live , ive never had an absolute penny from him , not one , yet i was being clobbered for £500 per month by the csa for my 2 kids with my ex when i only earned £18k per year , wheres the fairness in that .


Also my brother recently had a rant at a police officer in nottingham as he was a pumped up 19-20 stone muscle bound meathead , my brother basically asked him why it was blatantly obviously ok for him to abuse drugs (steroids ) whilst he tries to tell others they cant , tellingly the officer went red faced and silent .

If my famillies name gets mentioned to police in nottingham south , then we can guarantee an arrest as ive got some colourful familly members , luckilly for me its my stepdads side so ive got a different surname meaning its not a problem for me , but when my youngest brother moved into his house with his fiance the police parked a panda outside his house watching what was brought into his house , wtf , why , his record consists of serving 12 months for fighting and nothing else , no robbing or anything , surely thats harrasment ,

Yet despite thistrouble with police my aunt married (and now divorced ) a succesful high ranked copper who went on to be a script writer for police type programmes on the bbc and one of best mates is an ex copper , i also get on very well with the local coppers where i live who all know me through my white collar boxing shows .

I really should hate coppers but im non too fussed either way , at least thats how i feel today , the next time one pisses me off theyll probably all be tossers again

[Teddy's Toupee]

As this is boxing forum and not a political soapbox I won't launch into a lengthy critique of the highly politicised role the police play in society.
What has happened and is still happening to me is just a microcosm of a much bigger issue about police accountability in a putatively democratic society.
Even if Daley hasn't indulged in criminal behaviour himself , and that could be a big "if", having served on a riot squad he will have seen his colleauges commiting criminal acts of violence upon members of the public and, although paid and entrusted to uphold the law by the public, would have turned a blind eye to that criminality. Why? For an easier life in job? Because it's not the done thing to hold fellow officers up to the same standards of lawful behaviour that people like you and I are expected to adhere to? Whichever way you look at it, it's moral cowardice. Here endeth the sermon.

okay, look I am going to try and have a conversation about this.

i am trying to get the logic you have used. basically, you took a kicking in a police cell. and i assume from the bold bit that you are still being persecuted, somehow, by policemen. like some kind of ongoing campaign type thing.

then, it seems, you have complete confidence that even *if* Howard hasn't beaten people up himself, he *must* have seen it and done nothing, therefore even *if* he isn't your Type A Policeman (filth scum bully coward etc) who beats people up, he is simply your lesser-spotted Type B Policeman who simply watches it happen.

am I about right so far?

cos it seems to me that you're making some big assumptions- saying its all but a fact that Howard MUST have witnessed Police violence on civvies, etc etc

on similar lines i could make all kinds of assumptions about you. i could assume that the coppers who gave you a hiding, probably had good reason, in fact I see people all the time getting arrested and I think to myself 'I hope they give that lowlife a good shoeing in the van'.

so, yeah, people get a kicking off the plod now and then, but I say most of the time they probably deserve it anyway. along the lines of those assumptions, you were probably one of those angry violent drunks, you probably hit a woman in the street, in fact it was only the timely intervention of one of our boys in blue that stopped you from beating up a 14 year old then strangling his dog, then running his nan over as you stole his car for a gettaway.

i mean, maybe I am wrong on my assumptions, maybe not. surely you can't deny that there are plenty out there who deserve the kicking they get, though?

No I haven't "had a kicking" off the police.There isn't a police officer in this country who would be capable of giving me a hiding. My concern is their unaccountability and their position of, for all intents and purposes, legal immunity. "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" as Juvenal once asked :geek2: . We live in a country that is governed by the rule of law. The corpus iuris of this country is supposed to embody the principle of equity, or fairness. That should mean that everyone is equal before the law. Clearly they are not, and that leaves the law as being nothing more than a ruling elite's means of class-based coersion and control. The police are the state's retained thugs and so are afforded their unofficial status outside of the law. It is not the role of the police to dish out summary punishment to what they consider "undesirables" in a democratic society, but maybe that's because I am of the opinion that justice and fairness are a sine qua non for a civilised society.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

I objected to being called 'a melt' and that it was presumed I was a coward (with a hardman fetish) who would say nothing to a persons face. That pissed me off a bit; hence the retaliation and snide remarks made by me at every turn.

I am going to apologise for calling you both 'melts' actually - the term 'melt' where I am from means someone who is a bit thick, a bit slow, it may mean something different in London where Hurlock is from - he certainly didn't teach me this term though. I don't know either of you, you both come across as intelligent guys, so again, I apologise - and let's hope you put an end to this bating of Howard Daley - it is both showing you up in a bad light.

As for your 'hardman' fetish - you both seem to know a lot about violent celebrated criminals and bring them up on here - a boxing forum. Is it a fetish? I don't know - who cares!

[keithmoonhangover]

One of the lads shared a cell with Bronson and said he was a nice fella.

One of my lecturers at Uni was a prison guard and worked with Ian Brady, who, if you didn't read his file was also a nice fella.

So, presumably they are better people than cops?