What Is The Greatest Achievement In Boxing History?

[keithmoonhangover]

For me it would have to be Henry Armstrong holding the Featherweight, Lightweight and Welterweight World Titles all at the same time. Awesome

[alexpaterson]

Harry Greb going 41(?) fights undefeated in 1919 deserves a shout!

[Goodnight, Irene]

For me it would have to be Henry Armstrong holding the Featherweight, Lightweight and Welterweight World Titles all at the same time. Awesome

I have to agree, but there are some cracking, super-human efforts in the sport's history worthy of mention.

[King Carlos]

To combat Armstrong's case, how about Terry McGovern knocking out the Bantamweight, Featherweight, and Lightweight champions of the world all within a span of 9 months?

[Goodnight, Irene]

To combat Armstrong's case, how about Terry McGovern knocking out the Bantamweight, Featherweight, and Lightweight champions of the world all within a span of 9 months?

[King Carlos]

To combat Armstrong's case, how about Terry McGovern knocking out the Bantamweight, Featherweight, and Lightweight champions of the world all within a span of 9 months?

Problem?

[Goodnight, Irene]

LOL, not having a go, I agree with you. Just making the point his efforts you outlined are head-spinning.

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

This question is very difficult to gauge and impossible to answer definitively.

However, some notables should be:

Sugar Ray Robinson winning the middleweight championship an unprecedented 5 times, he was past his prime during some of these wins and middleweight wasn't even his most prolific or effective weight class .

Muhammad Ali winning the heavyweight crown 3 times. I know this record has been broken, but Ali did it during the golden age of heavyweight boxing competing against the very best.

Henry Armstrong. The triple crown.

[dajuggernaut]

Maybe not the best but these deserve some mention:

Wilfred Benitez winning a world title at age 17.
Jones and Fitzsimmons winning titles from 160 up to heavyweight.
Sugar Ray Robinson "starting" his career 128-1-2.
Robinson losing his first fight to Lamotta and avenging it less than 3 weeks later. (he even had a tune-up fight in between ;;-) )
I believe Robinson would have had the greatest achievement if he beat Maxim.
Archie Moore's 131 KO's.

and the most impressive...

James Toney making 157 as a pro.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Hard to argue with Armstrong.

A few not yet mentioned.

Langford beating Gans,Walcott, Ketchel,O'Brien, Wills

Obviously he has many more wins, but that is all time greats from Lightweight to Heavyweight. Even though the Walcott fight was a draw, I've never read an account that didn't have Sam comfortably winning


Joe's 25 defenses, the bum of the month gets more play than it should. He made some solid fighters appear to be bums. That was more a moniker of his immense talents and it certainly didn't encapsulate the entire reign.

Armstrong's 11 title defenses in 39.

My favorite tidbit is Burley fighting Ezzard Charles & Holman Williams in the same week. Sadly, he went 1-1 so it can't make the cut. Still an incredible display of manhood.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Alis record still stands, Sugar. No one has won the real title three times but Ali.

[King Carlos]

Maybe not the best but these deserve some mention:

Wilfred Benitez winning a world title at age 17.
Jones and Fitzsimmons winning titles from 160 up to heavyweight.
Sugar Ray Robinson "starting" his career 128-1-2.
Robinson losing his first fight to Lamotta and avenging it less than 3 weeks later. (he even had a tune-up fight in between ;;-) )
I believe Robinson would have had the greatest achievement if he beat Maxim.
Archie Moore's 131 KO's.

and the most impressive...

James Toney making 157 as a pro.

To be fair, Fitz's achievement was far more profound than Jones's, as all of his titles were lineal and he did so weighing less than 170 pounds throughout.

Also, why would you have rated Robinson's victory over Maxim higher than, say, Greb's victories over the larger, younger Tunney while half-blind? Armstrong moving up from Featherweight to dominate Welterweight champion Barney Ross while outweighed by about 10 pounds (and only because he'd gorged himself to even get within that difference)? Duran over Leonard? etc. etc.

[theone]

Worth a mention...Julio Cesar Chavez has had more championship fights (37) championship wins (31) and title defenses (27) than any fighter in history.

[keithmoonhangover]

Maybe not the best but these deserve some mention:

Wilfred Benitez winning a world title at age 17.
Jones and Fitzsimmons winning titles from 160 up to heavyweight.
Sugar Ray Robinson "starting" his career 128-1-2.
Robinson losing his first fight to Lamotta and avenging it less than 3 weeks later. (he even had a tune-up fight in between ;;-) )
I believe Robinson would have had the greatest achievement if he beat Maxim.
Archie Moore's 131 KO's.

and the most impressive...

James Toney making 157 as a pro.

I hear what your saying of about Robinson - Maxim.

Interesting to note that Armstrong fought a draw for a portion of the Middleweight Title.

[Knucklez]

To combat Armstrong's case, how about Terry McGovern knocking out the Bantamweight, Featherweight, and Lightweight champions of the world all within a span of 9 months?

Who was this?

[King Carlos]

To combat Armstrong's case, how about Terry McGovern knocking out the Bantamweight, Featherweight, and Lightweight champions of the world all within a span of 9 months?

Who was this?

Bantam/Feather (the weights were different in those days) whirlwind champion of the world at the turn of the 20th century. He blazed through the weights like Tyson blazed through the Heavyweight division in the late 80's, but against superior opponents. Like Tyson, he also had a relatively short prime due to his berserker style.

September 12th, 1899: KO's Bantamweight champion Pedlar Palmer in the first round (the first World Championship bout to end as such under Marquis of Queensbury rules). Wins Bantamweight championship.

January 9th, 1900: TKO's all time Bantam/Featherweight king (and Featherweight champ at the time) George Dixon (albeit an admittedly faded version, but still an excellent champion) in the 8th round.

Defends the title 3 times, KO'ing Eddie Santry (5th round), Oscar Gardner (3rd round, scheduled for 25), and Tommy White (3rd round, also scheduled for 25).

July 16, 1900: TKO's Frank Erne, Lightweight champion at the time, in 3 rounds in a non-title bout.

All told, after a DQ loss to Tim Callahan (which he later avenged by KO) he went 39-0-2 (34 KO's) from August 4, 1898 to May 29, 1901, defeating many ranked contenders during that period to go along with the aforementioned conquests.

He also holds an official KO victory (2nd round) over Lightweight king Joe Gans during that time frame. However, most (myself included) look past this bout, as it's generally regarded as one of the most blatant dives in all of history. The footage certainly suggests as much.

This does nothing to diminish McGovern's standing, though. He was an unheard of force in that era of 20-40 round bouts, wherein the majority of competitors relied on pacing themselves for the distance (and rightly so) and only going for the KO when the opportunity saw fit. Not so with Terrible Terry. He was truly a marvel.

[TigerMoth]

[quote="SUGARRAYSMELEE"]This question is very difficult to gauge and impossible to answer definitively.

However, some notables should be:

Muhammad Ali winning the heavyweight crown 3 times. I know this record has been broken, but Ali did it during the golden age of heavyweight boxing competing against the very best.
.[/quote]

I have never understood losing and then winning as an achievement. Ali lost to an undersized heavyweight with less than 10 pro fights (Leon Spinks) and than fought this same less than qualified contender for the championship again and won his 3rd championship. So, if he beat Leon the first time he fought (which he surely should have) and had been a 2 time heavyweight champ he would have been less of a fighter? Losing to Leon and then beating him was an accomplishment? Wouldn't it have been more of an accomplishment to beat Leon the first time and be a 2 time heavyweight champion?

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

Alis record still stands, Sugar. No one has won the real title three times but Ali.

Touche'.

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

This question is very difficult to gauge and impossible to answer definitively.

However, some notables should be:

Muhammad Ali winning the heavyweight crown 3 times. I know this record has been broken, but Ali did it during the golden age of heavyweight boxing competing against the very best.
.

I have never understood losing and then winning as an achievement. Ali lost to an undersized heavyweight with less than 10 pro fights (Leon Spinks) and than fought this same less than qualified contender for the championship again and won his 3rd championship. So, if he beat Leon the first time he fought (which he surely should have) and had been a 2 time heavyweight champ he would have been less of a fighter? Losing to Leon and then beating him was an accomplishment? Wouldn't it have been more of an accomplishment to beat Leon the first time and be a 2 time heavyweight champion?

I think losing and then winning is seen as an achievement as it shows mental strength and recuperative skills. Also, it is sometimes assumed that if a fighter loses his belt, than the boxer who beats him is superior, obviously this wasn't the case for either Ali or Robinson, but there was the possibility that they could lose in the rematch. So, when you triumph after losing, it is usually viewed as a greater feat.

Prime example, if Louis had beaten Schmeling the 1st time, him winning the 2nd fight wouldn't have been nearly as spectacular. Regardless of the politics going on.

[TigerMoth]

[quote="SUGARRAYSMELEE"][quote="TigerMoth"][quote="SUGARRAYSMELEE"]This question is very difficult to gauge and impossible to answer definitively.

However, some notables should be:

Muhammad Ali winning the heavyweight crown 3 times. I know this record has been broken, but Ali did it during the golden age of heavyweight boxing competing against the very best.
.[/quote]

I have never understood losing and then winning as an achievement. Ali lost to an undersized heavyweight with less than 10 pro fights (Leon Spinks) and than fought this same less than qualified contender for the championship again and won his 3rd championship. So, if he beat Leon the first time he fought (which he surely should have) and had been a 2 time heavyweight champ he would have been less of a fighter? Losing to Leon and then beating him was an accomplishment? Wouldn't it have been more of an accomplishment to beat Leon the first time and be a 2 time heavyweight champion?[/quote]



I think losing and then winning is seen as an achievement as it shows mental strength and recuperative skills. Also, it is sometimes assumed that if a fighter loses his belt, than the boxer who beats him is superior, obviously this wasn't the case for either Ali or Robinson, but there was the possibility that they could lose in the rematch. So, when you triumph after losing, it is usually viewed as a greater feat.

Prime example, if Louis had beaten Schmeling the 1st time, him winning the 2nd fight wouldn't have been nearly as spectacular. Regardless of the politics going on.[/quote]

I surely agree it is an achievement if the two fighters are both experienced, accomplished, not affected by injuries, in shape - Ali beating Frazier (twice) after losing the first fight was an achievement. But, Ali was not in shape for the first fight with Leon and didn't take him seriously - why should he have? Even at his advanced age, Ali handled Leon easily in the 2nd fight. So, in my opinion, his 3rd championship was more of a blemish than an accomplishment since Leon was not an experienced top flight heavyweight contender and Ali would have beat him the first time if he took him seriously and was in shape. If I am not mistaken, Ali in interviews said pretty much the same thing.

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

I think Sugar Ray Robinson's string of 91 consecutive victories between 1943 and 1951 deserves a mention.

[TigerMoth]

[quote="SUGARRAYSMELEE"]I think Sugar Ray Robinson's string of 91 consecutive victories between 1943 and 1951 deserves a mention.[/quote]

How about Roberto Duran, 72 wins and 1 loss when he moved up to welter and beat Sugar Ray Leonard? Wish he had retired after the 1st fight with SRL! Imagine where he would be on the list of all-time greats if he had!

[JC]

While we're taking about impressive records Willie Pep was 134-1-1 going into the first fight with Saddler.

Also managing a win over Saddler after the plane crash is another achievement worth a mention.

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

I think Sugar Ray Robinson's string of 91 consecutive victories between 1943 and 1951 deserves a mention.

How about Roberto Duran, 72 wins and 1 loss when he moved up to welter and beat Sugar Ray Leonard? Wish he had retired after the 1st fight with SRL! Imagine where he would be on the list of all-time greats if he had!

He is ranked as the greatest LW ever by the Associated Press

He is #6 on ESPN best ever boxers

He is # 5 on 'The Ring' "80 fighters of the last 80 years"

He is # 8 on Bert Sugar's "100 greatest fighters ever"

He is # 9 on the "Top 10 non heavyweights"

Additionally, he is # 28 on 'The Rings' "Greatest Punchers"

Don't worry, he is held in high regard as you can see.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The Moore, Barkley & even the hagler fight enhanced his legacy imo. He was at a point after the first Leonard fight that everything else was icing on the cake, nothing could hurt him at that point. I loved watching the old man on TNF after he turned counter puncher from attacker. His defensive abilities as an under sized, old fatty give me wood.