Ali, Berbick, Tyson & McBride Question.

[KOJOE90]

I have yet to see either fight and have little desire to for the obviouse reasons so I was wondering about a couple of points for those who have seen or were around at the time of both fights.

(1) Who looked the more shot out of Ali and Tyson?
(2) Which fight gained the most pre-fight press?
(3) Was Ali - Berbick seen as competative before the fight?
(4) Was there still talk of Ali fighting on after the Berbick lose like there is with Tyson now?

[overhand_right]

As far as Ali/Berbick goes, Ali was 40 & came in heavy rather than nearly killing himself like he did before the Holmes fight where he took bad medical advice from a cowboy doctor who prescribed him medicine that drained his body of power & energy among other things.

The fight was arranged because of Alis excuses for the Holmes fight & he wanted to go out with a win (but if he had won he definitely wouldve been lined up for Mike Weaver)

Ali was slow but still had a hard head. He had a bit of pop in his right hand, but it was slow & telegraphed & couldnt budge Berbick who was durable.

Basically round after round featured Berbick roughing up Ali. He would throw about 7 or 8 clubbing body shots at a time & Ali couldnt get out of the way and would visibly grimace in pain.

Despite the fact Berbick was winning round after round & pummeling Ali, Ali refused to quit, go down or stay on his stool. He lasted the 10 rds and lost a lop sided decision.

In the pre-fight press conference Ali admitted he was finished. Yes it got way more publicity than Tyson/McBride, waaay more.

Also lets note Berbick was one of the top heavies of the 80s, freakishly strong & a future world champ. Ali was older than Tyson, completely shot & still didnt quit or resort to illegal tactics like Tyson did in losing to a slow limited journeyman.

[silkov]

As far as Ali/Berbick goes, Ali was 40 & came in heavy rather than nearly killing himself like he did before the Holmes fight where he took bad medical advice from a cowboy doctor who prescribed him medicine that drained his body of power & energy among other things.

The fight was arranged because of Alis excuses for the Holmes fight & he wanted to go out with a win (but if he had won he definitely wouldve been lined up for Mike Weaver)

Ali was slow but still had a hard head. He had a bit of pop in his right hand, but it was slow & telegraphed & couldnt budge Berbick who was durable.

Basically round after round featured Berbick roughing up Ali. He would throw about 7 or 8 clubbing body shots at a time & Ali couldnt get out of the way and would visibly grimace in pain.

Despite the fact Berbick was winning round after round & pummeling Ali, Ali refused to quit, go down or stay on his stool. He lasted the 10 rds and lost a lop sided decision.

In the pre-fight press conference Ali admitted he was finished. Yes it got way more publicity than Tyson/McBride, waaay more.

Also lets note Berbick was one of the top heavies of the 80s, freakishly strong & a future world champ. Ali was older than Tyson, completely shot & still didnt quit or resort to illegal tactics like Tyson did in losing to a slow limited journeyman.

Good run down of the fight. Ali though well past it and already suffering from Parkingsons still managed to be halfway competitive for the first 5 rounds or so but Berbick dominated the last half of the fight. All things considered Ali's loss to Berbick is impressive in the fact that Berbick was a very tough fighter who was the first man to take Holmes the distance in a title defence and also first man to beat Greg Page (great fight!) and beat Tate and Thomas too... for Ali to lose as he did to Berbick was no disgrace and showed again the courage and toughness of the man.
Though I obviously wish Ali had stayed retired after the Spinks fights I'm glad really that his last fight was not that shocker against Holmes.... Ali was about 80% a better fighter against Berbick than he was vs Holmes when he really seemed to be barely able to stand.
I've little doubt the Ali who lost to Berbick would have beaten Mcbride.

[lvlarc]

I have yet to see either fight and have little desire to for the obviouse reasons so I was wondering about a couple of points for those who have seen or were around at the time of both fights.

(1) Who looked the more shot out of Ali and Tyson?
(2) Which fight gained the most pre-fight press?
(3) Was Ali - Berbick seen as competative before the fight?
(4) Was there still talk of Ali fighting on after the Berbick lose like there is with Tyson now?

Why the hell havent you watched these fights?!!! I mean both of these fights will stay in boxing history forever. Ali's farewell fight and Tyson winning the belt as the youngest ever. I suggest you go and buy these fights. :)

[The_Power]

I have yet to see either fight and have little desire to for the obviouse reasons so I was wondering about a couple of points for those who have seen or were around at the time of both fights.

(1) Who looked the more shot out of Ali and Tyson?
(2) Which fight gained the most pre-fight press?
(3) Was Ali - Berbick seen as competative before the fight?
(4) Was there still talk of Ali fighting on after the Berbick lose like there is with Tyson now?

Why the hell havent you watched these fights?!!! I mean both of these fights will stay in boxing history forever. Ali's farewell fight and Tyson winning the belt as the youngest ever. I suggest you go and buy these fights. :)

i dont think you understand the question.

[KOJOE90]

I have yet to see either fight and have little desire to for the obviouse reasons so I was wondering about a couple of points for those who have seen or were around at the time of both fights.

(1) Who looked the more shot out of Ali and Tyson?
(2) Which fight gained the most pre-fight press?
(3) Was Ali - Berbick seen as competative before the fight?
(4) Was there still talk of Ali fighting on after the Berbick lose like there is with Tyson now?

Why the hell havent you watched these fights?!!! I mean both of these fights will stay in boxing history forever. Ali's farewell fight and Tyson winning the belt as the youngest ever. I suggest you go and buy these fights. :)

lvlarc_uk you seem to have misread my post. I am talking about the Ali Vs Berbick fight and the Tyson vs McBride fight.

I don't have any real wish to watch Ali vs Berbick because I don't want to see an old, ill, shot Ali get bullied around by the tough but limited Berbick. I could order the tape of the fight today but have no desire to do so. To me Ali vs Spink 2 was his farewell fight (or should have been).

As for McBride vs Tyson. I chose not to get the PPV as I thought it wasn't going to be worth the money and it sounds like I was proved right. I am no Tyson fan so have no wish to see the shot version of him quit on his stool against a fighter who would not have lasted a round against him in his prime.

For the record I saw Tyson vs Berbick live on TV, and I have it on tape and have watched it countless times.

[revporl]

Whereas ovbiously ideally Ali should have gone out after the 2nd Spinks fight (which sealed his legacy), at least he went out with some dignity in the Berbick fight rather than the massacre which was the Holmes debacle.

[lvlarc]

I have yet to see either fight and have little desire to for the obviouse reasons so I was wondering about a couple of points for those who have seen or were around at the time of both fights.

(1) Who looked the more shot out of Ali and Tyson?
(2) Which fight gained the most pre-fight press?
(3) Was Ali - Berbick seen as competative before the fight?
(4) Was there still talk of Ali fighting on after the Berbick lose like there is with Tyson now?

Why the hell havent you watched these fights?!!! I mean both of these fights will stay in boxing history forever. Ali's farewell fight and Tyson winning the belt as the youngest ever. I suggest you go and buy these fights. :)

lvlarc_uk you seem to have misread my post. I am talking about the Ali Vs Berbick fight and the Tyson vs McBride fight.

I don't have any real wish to watch Ali vs Berbick because I don't want to see an old, ill, shot Ali get bullied around by the tough but limited Berbick. I could order the tape of the fight today but have no desire to do so. To me Ali vs Spink 2 was his farewell fight (or should have been).

As for McBride vs Tyson. I chose not to get the PPV as I thought it wasn't going to be worth the money and it sounds like I was proved right. I am no Tyson fan so have no wish to see the shot version of him quit on his stool against a fighter who would not have lasted a round against him in his prime.

For the record I saw Tyson vs Berbick live on TV, and I have it on tape and have watched it countless times.

Ah right my bad, I did'nt see the "McBride" in the subject header :)

But still I thought most people would of watched Ali's last fight :)

[Marciano Frazier]

I have yet to see either fight and have little desire to for the obviouse reasons so I was wondering about a couple of points for those who have seen or were around at the time of both fights.

(1) Who looked the more shot out of Ali and Tyson?
(2) Which fight gained the most pre-fight press?
(3) Was Ali - Berbick seen as competative before the fight?
(4) Was there still talk of Ali fighting on after the Berbick lose like there is with Tyson now?

1. Ali was certainly more shot than Tyson. He was already beginning to show symptoms of Parkinson's syndrome at the time and didn't really possess any of his old qualities besides his chin.

2. Definitely Ali-Berbick, because Berbick was actually a real contender, whereas Tyson-McBride was basically seen as a joke fight(until McBride won, that is). Not to mention that boxing was much more mainstream at the time.

3. Yes, it was. In fact, it actually was a reasonably competitive fight.

4. I don't believe there was.

I think Ali accounted for himself much better as he went off into the sunset than Tyson did. Ali lost to a guy who was actually a top fighter, went the distance, and didn't disgracefully resort to blatant intentional fouls or quit like Tyson did.

[KOJOE90]

I think Ali accounted for himself much better as he went off into the sunset than Tyson did. Ali lost to a guy who was actually a top fighter, went the distance, and didn't disgracefully resort to blatant intentional fouls or quit like Tyson did.

Thanks for all the feedback Overhand, Silkov and MF etc. You have all confirmed what I thought/knew and helped fill in a few gaps as well.

One thing that always springs to my mind when comparing Ali's and Tysons careers is the following.

Comeback fights after 3 years away from Boxing

Tyson - Peter McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr and Frank Bruno for the Title.
Ali - Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bounavena and Joe Frazier for the Title.

Final two fights

Tyson - Danny Williams & Kevin McBride
Ali - Larry Holmes & Trevor Berbick.

Speaks volumes I feel.

[silkov]

I think Ali accounted for himself much better as he went off into the sunset than Tyson did. Ali lost to a guy who was actually a top fighter, went the distance, and didn't disgracefully resort to blatant intentional fouls or quit like Tyson did.

Thanks for all the feedback Overhand, Silkov and MF etc. You have all confirmed what I thought/knew and helped fill in a few gaps as well.

One thing that always springs to my mind when comparing Ali's and Tysons careers is the following.

Comeback fights after 3 years away from Boxing

Tyson - Peter McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr and Frank Bruno for the Title.
Ali - Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bounavena and Joe Frazier for the Title.

Final two fights

Tyson - Danny Williams & Kevin McBride
Ali - Larry Holmes & Trevor Berbick.

Speaks volumes I feel.

Indeed... = Ali just a different class to the rusty one! 8)

[lumpymo]

As far as Ali/Berbick goes, Ali was 40 & came in heavy rather than nearly killing himself like he did before the Holmes fight where he took bad medical advice from a cowboy doctor who prescribed him medicine that drained his body of power & energy among other things.

The fight was arranged because of Alis excuses for the Holmes fight & he wanted to go out with a win (but if he had won he definitely wouldve been lined up for Mike Weaver)

Ali was slow but still had a hard head. He had a bit of pop in his right hand, but it was slow & telegraphed & couldnt budge Berbick who was durable.

Basically round after round featured Berbick roughing up Ali. He would throw about 7 or 8 clubbing body shots at a time & Ali couldnt get out of the way and would visibly grimace in pain.

Despite the fact Berbick was winning round after round & pummeling Ali, Ali refused to quit, go down or stay on his stool. He lasted the 10 rds and lost a lop sided decision.

In the pre-fight press conference Ali admitted he was finished. Yes it got way more publicity than Tyson/McBride, waaay more.

Also lets note Berbick was one of the top heavies of the 80s, freakishly strong & a future world champ. Ali was older than Tyson, completely shot & still didnt quit or resort to illegal tactics like Tyson did in losing to a slow limited journeyman.

Exactly right, Ali was a champion with a champions heart the same can not be said for Tyson. When Ali was forced to stop fighting and give up his belt in the 60's, after he was allowed to fight again his first fight was against the #1 contender for the heavyweight title, his second comeback fight was against the only guy to drop the heavyweight champion at the time, he beat both these guys, stopping them both. Now Tyson on his first fight out of his extended vacation was to fight someone that was not only not ranked, but no one had ever even heard of. His second fight was against Buster Mathis jr a big fat guy who could'nt crack an egg, and could barely fight, was he even ranked at the time!
His first title fight was against Frank Bruno, someone who was scared shitless of Tyson, and looked like he was gona cry during the fight. His next title fight was against Bruce Seldon who I am sure was paid to lay down by King, the punch that knocked him out did'nt even land!
You cannot compare these 2, one was a champion, the other was a stain on the world of boxing.

cheers M.O.

[Syntax Error]

As far as Ali/Berbick goes, Ali was 40 & came in heavy rather than nearly killing himself like he did before the Holmes fight where he took bad medical advice from a cowboy doctor who prescribed him medicine that drained his body of power & energy among other things.

The fight was arranged because of Alis excuses for the Holmes fight & he wanted to go out with a win (but if he had won he definitely wouldve been lined up for Mike Weaver)

Ali was slow but still had a hard head. He had a bit of pop in his right hand, but it was slow & telegraphed & couldnt budge Berbick who was durable.

Basically round after round featured Berbick roughing up Ali. He would throw about 7 or 8 clubbing body shots at a time & Ali couldnt get out of the way and would visibly grimace in pain.

Despite the fact Berbick was winning round after round & pummeling Ali, Ali refused to quit, go down or stay on his stool. He lasted the 10 rds and lost a lop sided decision.

In the pre-fight press conference Ali admitted he was finished. Yes it got way more publicity than Tyson/McBride, waaay more.

Also lets note Berbick was one of the top heavies of the 80s, freakishly strong & a future world champ. Ali was older than Tyson, completely shot & still didnt quit or resort to illegal tactics like Tyson did in losing to a slow limited journeyman.

Exactly right, Ali was a champion with a champions heart the same can not be said for Tyson. When Ali was forced to stop fighting and give up his belt in the 60's, after he was allowed to fight again his first fight was against the #1 contender for the heavyweight title, his second comeback fight was against the only guy to drop the heavyweight champion at the time, he beat both these guys, stopping them both. Now Tyson on his first fight out of his extended vacation was to fight someone that was not only not ranked, but no one had ever even heard of. His second fight was against Buster Mathis jr a big fat guy who could'nt crack an egg, and could barely fight, was he even ranked at the time!
His first title fight was against Frank Bruno, someone who was scared shitless of Tyson, and looked like he was gona cry during the fight. His next title fight was against Bruce Seldon who I am sure was paid to lay down by King, the punch that knocked him out did'nt even land!
You cannot compare these 2, one was a champion, the other was a stain on the world of boxing.

cheers M.O.

Excellent post!

Couldn't put it better myself!!!