Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

[Finn]

I saw Bruno on Harry Hills TV burp the other night and was thinking where abouts he would be rated in todays current crop.

I'd personally guess at no. 4 but i wouldnt be suprised if he could beat wlad. Bearing in mind this was a guy that had a prime lewis rocked, got battered by a prime tyson but when you see the fights actually gave a good account of himself before he was stopped (a better account than most), beat oliver mccall, went 11 rounds with a prime witherspoon, and KO'd all but 2 of his 40 victims.

Any thoughts?

[LeedsLad]

2nd.

Only Wlad beats the Bruno that fought Lewis more often than Bruno beats him.

[stujones]

Actually quite tough to predict, because Bruno lost to world champions - 3 of these being very decent world champion. However, he didn't really fight many in the "fringe contender" bracket.

Think Haye, and both Klits beat him - Bruno vs Chag and Valuev would be very interesting.

[Syntax Error]

As of right now, The fighting doctors, David Haye & Povetkin would probably be ranked ahead of him, so I'd probably put Bruno in at number 5 or thereabouts.

[Finn]

Lewis wasn't in his prime when he fought Frank, he was still developing.

Bruno would be ranked lower than Povetkin and on a level with the Chambers, Dimitrenkos and Peters of the world; probably the best of that bunch.

Pretty sure he was a world champion when he fought frank. Maybe not at his absolute peak now i think about it though i'll give you that, but still superior to the one that vitali fought.

[orbtastic]

"peak" Bruno would probably be mid table right now. Of course were he fighting now he may well have been knocked out four or five times and had several failed world title attempts but who can say.

I always fought the cancelled bill in China where he was supposed to box would have been interesting. I can't remember if it was Mercer or Morrison, I think Morrison.

[stujones]

"peak" Bruno would probably be mid table right now. Of course were he fighting now he may well have been knocked out four or five times and had several failed world title attempts but who can say.

I always fought the cancelled bill in China where he was supposed to box would have been interesting. I can't remember if it was Mercer or Morrison, I think Morrison.

Mercer - would have been a great test.

Hide was supposed to fight Morrison, not sure if it was in Hong Kong, but it was around that time.

One of the only times in the mid 90's BBC Grandstand did a segment on Boxing - and it was basically to laugh at the sport.

[orbtastic]

yeah, i remember it well. still have that segment on tape.

[SteveDow]

I think Bruno would have been 4th at worst and I'd have given him almost a 50-50 chance to beat Wlad and Haye though I wouldn't have fancied his changes against Vitali. Let's not forget, he was a huge puncher and a very decent boxer who also had a decent chin and was never knocked cold. Usually he was beaten whilst still on his feet and I couldn't see him being massively overpowered by anyone in the division. All in all let's not forget that Frank was around in a much better era.

[Syntax Error]

Lewis wasn't in his prime when he fought Frank, he was still developing.

Bruno would be ranked lower than Povetkin and on a level with the Chambers, Dimitrenkos and Peters of the world; probably the best of that bunch.

Pretty sure he was a world champion when he fought frank. Maybe not at his absolute peak now i think about though i'll give you that, but still superior to the one that vitali fought.

I'd disagree. Lennox got cuter as he got older. He still made a lot of rudimentary mistakes at the time he fought Bruno (93) and whilst he was a world champion, he hadn't beaten a world champion to get the belt.

Spot on.

Pre McCall 1, Lewis was extremely reckless & over reliant on his big Right hand.

After he flattened Ruddock, it's as if he believed that all he had to do to win his bouts was to land one big Right & that would be it.

As he found out against Tucker & Bruno in 1993, that was not the case, as he struggled with those 2; both of whom he should have beaten pretty easily & it culminated with him getting starched by McCall in 1994.

[Bricks]

a "peak" bruno certainly wasnt the one of the 90's even tho most his biggest name wins (carl williams,oliver mccall, jessie ferguson,pierre coetzer) were in that time.....no the "peak" bruno was the guy who beat bugner and shook tyson despite having to wait 15 months and many postponements to take that fight.....bruno was 6ft 3 and a leaner 224lbs in the late 80s and that bruno i would make the 4th best hw today....haye-bruno would be similar to the less polished version of lewis he fought.....wlad and vitali he matches up with far far better and i could see him hurting wlad even flooring him but being busted up and stopped bruised swollen and out on his feet.......

frank had an incredible career and tel lawless managed him remarkeably....helped make him a household name and millionaire and took him forward throughout his time.....really looked after him......but from a pure boxing point of view its a real shame bruno didnt hook up with an american trainer like emanuel steward or eddie futch or a gil clancy after the first tyson loss and gave up the weights and learned to loosen up .....i beleive we would have seen a much better bruno altho in honesty the hw division was getting very strong around 1990-92 so in retrospect from a money point of view and the wins he did get...frank did great in the 90s.....he was a hw contender for 10 years thats a hell of a achievement

[McCannW14]

IMO Bruno would be top or second at worst. Just who is there to beat a big, strong, hard punching, live, young and hungry heavyweight?

Wlad is fragile when backed up and if Bruno could back up Lewis he could back up Wlad.

Haye - A total mismatch and Bruno flattens him early. Far too strong, tough and hard punching for Haye.

The only one I give a 50/50 chance to would be Vitali who might outlast Bruno in a war of attrition.

[dr_devious]

I think Frank would be ranked number 3 or 4 behind the Klitschkos. Vitali would beat him in 8 or 9 very tough rounds but Bruno had immense power and sound fundamental boxing skills, and awould be too much for most of todays HW division. 50:50 fights against Haye and Vlad

[bennie]

Bruno was a huge puncher who wobbled Tyson and Lewis and stood a puncher's chance with anybody. His self-belief was a chink so I favour the mentally stronger Haye and Vitali over him but not Wlad, nor anybody else for that matter. Christ, he mullered McCall for 12 rounds and McCall is still ranked, isn't he?

[crusader]

3rd Or 4th

I think the division absolutely sucks balls outside Klits and Haye. Povetkin is declining imo, Adamek is way overrated, Chagaev is shot, tubby Arreola has never beaten a top 15 fighter, Dimitrenko is a big baby, etc, etc. Imo Bruno was better than all those types of guys.

[Counter-puncher]

I saw Bruno on Harry Hills TV burp the other night and was thinking where abouts he would be rated in todays current crop.

I'd personally guess at no. 4 but i wouldnt be suprised if he could beat wlad. Bearing in mind this was a guy that had a prime lewis rocked, got battered by a prime tyson but when you see the fights actually gave a good account of himself before he was stopped (a better account than most), beat oliver mccall, went 11 rounds with a prime witherspoon, and KO'd all but 2 of his 40 victims.

Any thoughts?

sorry to be pedantic but Witherspoon wasn't prime IMO. he had bitchtits.

but i do agree Bruno would be top 3-4 today

[Counter-puncher]

Lewis wasn't in his prime when he fought Frank, he was still developing.

Bruno would be ranked lower than Povetkin and on a level with the Chambers, Dimitrenkos and Peters of the world; probably the best of that bunch.

Pretty sure he was a world champion when he fought frank. Maybe not at his absolute peak now i think about though i'll give you that, but still superior to the one that vitali fought.

I'd disagree. Lennox got cuter as he got older. He still made a lot of rudimentary mistakes at the time he fought Bruno (93) and whilst he was a world champion, he hadn't beaten a world champion to get the belt.

agreed. and agreed with Orb Re: Bruno - Mercer?morrison. i think he beats Morrison and gets stopped by Mercer, meself

[orbtastic]

Mercer's a bad fight for him. Assuming it's "peak/pinnacle/zennith" Mercer and he's motivated.

[Happy Slapper]

IMO Bruno would be top or second at worst. Just who is there to beat a big, strong, hard punching, live, young and hungry heavyweight?

Wlad is fragile when backed up and if Bruno could back up Lewis he could back up Wlad.

Haye - A total mismatch and Bruno flattens him early. Far too strong, tough and hard punching for Haye.

The only one I give a 50/50 chance to would be Vitali who might outlast Bruno in a war of attrition.

No way. Haye would destroy Frank. We all love him, but you can't compare him with the very top guys of any era. Haye and both Klits would beat him fairly easily.

[Scottrf]

No way. Haye would destroy Frank. We all love him, but you can't compare him with the very top guys of any era. Haye and both Klits would beat him fairly easily.

In which fights has Haye proved he's on a different level to Bruno? He's achieved a lot but in weak divisions with fractured titles. I think he probably is, and is a cleverer fighter, but not sure he's done that much to show it.

[orbtastic]

Assuming Bruno hadn't convinced himself he was going to lose beforehand i.e. self doubt TKO and he got his jab going, he could give Haye immense problems for 6-7 rounds.

[Captain Hook]

Peak or not Bruno is behind Wlad, VK and Haye....the rest can all beat each other so I'd put him between 4-7....if he got that jab working he'd have given any of this lot problems, but Haye for one would KO him in five rounds.

[Lenny]

Strange one Bruno, one one hand I can see him beating both Wlad and Haye on a good night (although I agree with what Bennie said about Haye's mental advantage being key). But I can also imagine him getting stopped late by Arreola after winning everything up until then.

Good fighter though, with very good power and skills, but terrible stamina and fighting instincts. No matter what era he fought in, he would always meet someone who was a nightmare matchup for him.

Mercer would have been a terrible match up for Frank. IMO the only guy in that era who would have been worse for him would have been Holyfield.

[Captain Hook]

IMO Bruno would be top or second at worst. Just who is there to beat a big, strong, hard punching, live, young and hungry heavyweight?

Wlad is fragile when backed up and if Bruno could back up Lewis he could back up Wlad.

Haye - A total mismatch and Bruno flattens him early. Far too strong, tough and hard punching for Haye.

The only one I give a 50/50 chance to would be Vitali who might outlast Bruno in a war of attrition.

Haye v Bruno a total mismatch?

[johnswan1]

A lift from Wikipedia on Bruno's career to refresh memories:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Bruno

Bruno became a professional boxer in 1982, quickly racking up a streak of twenty-one consecutive wins by knockout. This streak caught the attention of international boxing magazines, such as The Ring, KO Magazine, Boxing Illustrated, Ring En Español. During this period Bruno defeated former World Title contender Scott LeDoux, the dangerous fringe contender Floyd Cummings, former European Champion Rudy Gauwe, British contender Eddie Nielson and trial horses such as Bill Sharkey, Walter Santemore and Ken Lakusta.

In March 1984, however, the up and coming future World Heavyweight Champion, American James 'Bonecrusher' Smith, halted that streak when he defeated Bruno by knockout in the tenth and final round of their bout, with Bruno leading clearly on all three judges' cards.

Bruno won his next 6 bouts against respected opposition. He won the European Heavyweight Title with a KO over Swedens Anders Eklund, KO'd former European Champ and World Title contender Lucien Rodriguez, was taken the distance for the first time by the useful world rated Philipp Brown, and beat fringe fighters Larry Frazier and Jeff Jordan.

Bruno got back into title contention with an impressive one round KO win over former WBA champion Gerrie Coetzee of South Africa, and, in July 1986, he challenged Tim Witherspoon for the WBA World Heavyweight championship. After once again leading on the cards for most of the fight, he ran out of steam and was defeated by knockout, in round eleven.

Bruno once again got himself back into title contention with wins over former contender James Tillis and journeymen Reggie Gross and Chuck Gardner. In October 1987 Bruno faced the veteran fellow Briton Joe Bugner, who although long past his peak was coming off impressive wins over Greg Page and David Bey. Bruno won by TKO in the 8th round, the referee stopping the bout, although it appeared Bugner could have continued.

In 1989, Bruno challenged Mike Tyson for the unified world Heavyweight title. In the opening moments, the fighters came together with huge punches. Frank's legs buckled, and he took a big step back, inadvertently stepping off the ring apron. Most agree that he would have gone down, at least to a knee in any event, and this was called a knockdown. Frank did not complain, and instead gathered himself to continue, ultimately rocking Tyson (for the first time in his career) with a left hook toward the end of the round. However, Tyson recovered and eventually beat Bruno when the referee stopped the contest in round five with the Bruno taking heavy punishment, laying helpless on the ropes.

Bruno kept winning fights, helping him to retain his spot as one of the world's leading Heavyweights. He defeated good contenders such as Jose Ribalta, Carl Williams and Pierre Coetzer, as well as the Dutchman Jan Emmen.

In 1993 he had a third world title chance against young Lennox Lewis, who was making the second defence of the belt (his first of three championship reigns). The Lennox Lewis vs. Frank Bruno fight was the first time that two British-born boxers had fought for the world heavyweight title. Lewis beat Bruno on a stoppage in round seven, Bruno again failing to take his title chance after leading the contest on points up until what proved the final round.

Bruno again regrouped, dispatching the respected Jesse Furguson in one round, and the fringe contenders Rodolfo Marin and Mike Evans equally easily.

On 24 September 1994, Oliver McCall beat Lewis with a surprising and somewhat controversial second round knockout victory at Wembley Arena, and, after outpointing Larry Holmes, he came to England to defend the WBC title against Bruno.

On 2 September 1995, Bruno finally became world champion by outpointing McCall over twelve rounds. Bruno did not last long as champion - the contract he signed in order to get McCall meant he had to face Mike Tyson in his first defence. Tyson beat Bruno on a stoppage in round three, Bruno performing unusually poorly in what turned out to be his last bout as a professional, despite having commented prior to the fight "I ain't freezing, son".