Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Happy Slapper
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Happy Slapper »

Scottrf wrote:
Happy Slapper wrote:No way. Haye would destroy Frank. We all love him, but you can't compare him with the very top guys of any era. Haye and both Klits would beat him fairly easily.
In which fights has Haye proved he's on a different level to Bruno? He's achieved a lot but in weak divisions with fractured titles. I think he probably is, and is a cleverer fighter, but not sure he's done that much to show it.
He's defended his title more times for one. He's also got a distinguished career as a cruiser.

Listen, I loved Frank, and he was a decent fighter in a very good era, but that's all he was - a decent fighter. He could never compete with the real top guys of any era.

It's the same old thing, people remember the past and past fighters/footballers/bands/whatever to be better than they actually were. Just because someone is in the modern era does not mean they were not good enough for the 'halcyon' days. It's nonsense. In my opinion, if someone is good/great in their era, they would more often than not have been good/great in any era (not definitely, but more often than not).
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Scottrf »

I'd fancy Bruno to defend against Ruiz and Harrison. Distinguished career at cruiser - just 1 defense is hardly Holyfield stuff, and again the opposition wasn't fantastic. Bruno probably wouldn't be the best in any era, but Haye hasn't proved that at Heavy before he fights a Klitchsko.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by LeedsLad »

I don't see how Haye can beat Bruno.

Other than speed, what advantages does he have?

His record isn't exactly stellar, is it? And he's hardly had to earn his top 3 ranking by beating good fighters, has he?

Power - Bruno
Chin - Bruno
Heart - Bruno
Stamina - Bruno
Footwork - Even
Finishing Ability - Bruno
Punch Variety - Bruno
Speed - Haye
Height & Reach - Bruno
Defence - Even

So that's 7-1-2 in Frank's favour. Haye really isn't that good, something that will be proven if and when he fights Wlad. People have short memories on here. Would Haye even have the stones to fight Tyson x2, Lewis, Witherspoon and so on?
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Jeff Thomas »

Bruno was matched with mercer I've got the poster at home
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Happy Slapper »

LeedsLad wrote:I don't see how Haye can beat Bruno.

Other than speed, what advantages does he have?

His record isn't exactly stellar, is it? And he's hardly had to earn his top 3 ranking by beating good fighters, has he?

Power - Bruno
Chin - Bruno
Heart - Bruno
Stamina - Bruno
Footwork - Even
Finishing Ability - Bruno
Punch Variety - Bruno
Speed - Haye
Height & Reach - Bruno
Defence - Even

So that's 7-1-2 in Frank's favour. Haye really isn't that good, something that will be proven if and when he fights Wlad. People have short memories on here. Would Haye even have the stones to fight Tyson x2, Lewis, Witherspoon and so on?
Haye's a lot better than people give him credit for and people will admit that once he's gone.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Happy Slapper »

Happy Slapper wrote:
LeedsLad wrote:I don't see how Haye can beat Bruno.

Other than speed, what advantages does he have?

His record isn't exactly stellar, is it? And he's hardly had to earn his top 3 ranking by beating good fighters, has he?

Power - Bruno
Chin - Bruno
Heart - Bruno
Stamina - Bruno
Footwork - Even
Finishing Ability - Bruno
Punch Variety - Bruno
Speed - Haye
Height & Reach - Bruno
Defence - Even

So that's 7-1-2 in Frank's favour. Haye really isn't that good, something that will be proven if and when he fights Wlad. People have short memories on here. Would Haye even have the stones to fight Tyson x2, Lewis, Witherspoon and so on?
Haye's a lot better than people give him credit for and people will admit that once he's gone.
Heart, Power, Finishing Ability and Punch Variety - Bruno? Are you sure? I beg to differ on these.

Anyway, what about class, desire, amateur pedigree, nerve, tactical awareness? Haye has all these in abundance.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by LeedsLad »

Happy Slapper wrote:
Happy Slapper wrote:
LeedsLad wrote:I don't see how Haye can beat Bruno.

Other than speed, what advantages does he have?

His record isn't exactly stellar, is it? And he's hardly had to earn his top 3 ranking by beating good fighters, has he?

Power - Bruno
Chin - Bruno
Heart - Bruno
Stamina - Bruno
Footwork - Even
Finishing Ability - Bruno
Punch Variety - Bruno
Speed - Haye
Height & Reach - Bruno
Defence - Even

So that's 7-1-2 in Frank's favour. Haye really isn't that good, something that will be proven if and when he fights Wlad. People have short memories on here. Would Haye even have the stones to fight Tyson x2, Lewis, Witherspoon and so on?
Haye's a lot better than people give him credit for and people will admit that once he's gone.
Heart, Power, Finishing Ability and Punch Variety - Bruno? Are you sure? I beg to differ on these.

Anyway, what about class, desire, amateur pedigree, nerve, tactical awareness? Haye has all these in abundance.
Seriously?

Heart - Bruno would fight anybody, and always gave his all even when ultimately out of his depth against Tyson and Lewis.

Power - Haye hasn't sparked a legitimate top level HW. Bruno got rid of several.

Finishing Ability - so you are impressed when Haye just steams in throwing a million and one bombs from all angles, smothering his work and leaving himself wide open?

Punch Variety - yes, Bruno had a very good jab, could hook off it and a very good overhand right. Haye's jab is decent, his left hook pretty sloppy and a brilliant right hand.

As for desire, don't make me laugh :lol:

In the past three years all we've heard is contracts, purse splits and TV money. Bruno just fought whoever, McCall, Witherspoon etc.

Haye has really got you all fooled..... his record really is average in the grand scheme of things. Why people can't see that I've no idea. He's just very fortunate that this era is absolutely gash. He'd be in the lower half of the top 10 in the 1990's, if that.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Syntax Error »

LeedsLad wrote:I don't see how Haye can beat Bruno.

Other than speed, what advantages does he have?

His record isn't exactly stellar, is it? And he's hardly had to earn his top 3 ranking by beating good fighters, has he?

Power - Bruno
Chin - Bruno
Heart - Bruno
Stamina - Bruno
Footwork - Even
Finishing Ability - Bruno
Punch Variety - Bruno
Speed - Haye
Height & Reach - Bruno
Defence - Even

So that's 7-1-2 in Frank's favour. Haye really isn't that good, something that will be proven if and when he fights Wlad. People have short memories on here. Would Haye even have the stones to fight Tyson x2, Lewis, Witherspoon and so on?
I'd say stamina was a problem for both Haye & Bruno & it's difficult to say which one's was better.

Haye's only defeat was due to stamina & all Bruno's defeats, bar his last fight when he wet himself, were because of less than average stamina.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Finn »

johnswan1 wrote:A lift from Wikipedia on Bruno's career to refresh memories:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Bruno

Bruno became a professional boxer in 1982, quickly racking up a streak of twenty-one consecutive wins by knockout. This streak caught the attention of international boxing magazines, such as The Ring, KO Magazine, Boxing Illustrated, Ring En Español. During this period Bruno defeated former World Title contender Scott LeDoux, the dangerous fringe contender Floyd Cummings, former European Champion Rudy Gauwe, British contender Eddie Nielson and trial horses such as Bill Sharkey, Walter Santemore and Ken Lakusta.

In March 1984, however, the up and coming future World Heavyweight Champion, American James 'Bonecrusher' Smith, halted that streak when he defeated Bruno by knockout in the tenth and final round of their bout, with Bruno leading clearly on all three judges' cards.

Bruno won his next 6 bouts against respected opposition. He won the European Heavyweight Title with a KO over Swedens Anders Eklund, KO'd former European Champ and World Title contender Lucien Rodriguez, was taken the distance for the first time by the useful world rated Philipp Brown, and beat fringe fighters Larry Frazier and Jeff Jordan.

Bruno got back into title contention with an impressive one round KO win over former WBA champion Gerrie Coetzee of South Africa, and, in July 1986, he challenged Tim Witherspoon for the WBA World Heavyweight championship. After once again leading on the cards for most of the fight, he ran out of steam and was defeated by knockout, in round eleven.

Bruno once again got himself back into title contention with wins over former contender James Tillis and journeymen Reggie Gross and Chuck Gardner. In October 1987 Bruno faced the veteran fellow Briton Joe Bugner, who although long past his peak was coming off impressive wins over Greg Page and David Bey. Bruno won by TKO in the 8th round, the referee stopping the bout, although it appeared Bugner could have continued.

In 1989, Bruno challenged Mike Tyson for the unified world Heavyweight title. In the opening moments, the fighters came together with huge punches. Frank's legs buckled, and he took a big step back, inadvertently stepping off the ring apron. Most agree that he would have gone down, at least to a knee in any event, and this was called a knockdown. Frank did not complain, and instead gathered himself to continue, ultimately rocking Tyson (for the first time in his career) with a left hook toward the end of the round. However, Tyson recovered and eventually beat Bruno when the referee stopped the contest in round five with the Bruno taking heavy punishment, laying helpless on the ropes.

Bruno kept winning fights, helping him to retain his spot as one of the world's leading Heavyweights. He defeated good contenders such as Jose Ribalta, Carl Williams and Pierre Coetzer, as well as the Dutchman Jan Emmen.

In 1993 he had a third world title chance against young Lennox Lewis, who was making the second defence of the belt (his first of three championship reigns). The Lennox Lewis vs. Frank Bruno fight was the first time that two British-born boxers had fought for the world heavyweight title. Lewis beat Bruno on a stoppage in round seven, Bruno again failing to take his title chance after leading the contest on points up until what proved the final round.

Bruno again regrouped, dispatching the respected Jesse Furguson in one round, and the fringe contenders Rodolfo Marin and Mike Evans equally easily.

On 24 September 1994, Oliver McCall beat Lewis with a surprising and somewhat controversial second round knockout victory at Wembley Arena, and, after outpointing Larry Holmes, he came to England to defend the WBC title against Bruno.

On 2 September 1995, Bruno finally became world champion by outpointing McCall over twelve rounds. Bruno did not last long as champion - the contract he signed in order to get McCall meant he had to face Mike Tyson in his first defence. Tyson beat Bruno on a stoppage in round three, Bruno performing unusually poorly in what turned out to be his last bout as a professional, despite having commented prior to the fight "I ain't freezing, son".
When you read that you realise just how pathetic todays heavy weight division is.

Anyone remember VB day! That was quality :lol:
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by forcefraser »

LeedsLad wrote:
Happy Slapper wrote:
Happy Slapper wrote: Haye's a lot better than people give him credit for and people will admit that once he's gone.
Heart, Power, Finishing Ability and Punch Variety - Bruno? Are you sure? I beg to differ on these.

Anyway, what about class, desire, amateur pedigree, nerve, tactical awareness? Haye has all these in abundance.
''

Seriously?

Heart - Bruno would fight anybody, and always gave his all even when ultimately out of his depth against Tyson and Lewis.

Power - Haye hasn't sparked a legitimate top level HW. Bruno got rid of several.

Finishing Ability - so you are impressed when Haye just steams in throwing a million and one bombs from all angles, smothering his work and leaving himself wide open?

Punch Variety - yes, Bruno had a very good jab, could hook off it and a very good overhand right. Haye's jab is decent, his left hook pretty sloppy and a brilliant right hand.

As for desire, don't make me laugh :lol:

In the past three years all we've heard is contracts, purse splits and TV money. Bruno just fought whoever, McCall, Witherspoon etc.

Haye has really got you all fooled..... his record really is average in the grand scheme of things. Why people can't see that I've no idea. He's just very fortunate that this era is absolutely gash. He'd be in the lower half of the top 10 in the 1990's, if that.
Who hasBruno stopped amongst top heavyweight? Joe Bugner? Gerry Coetze? Jumbo Cummins?

I`d actually put Monty Barret and Ruiz aove those guys.

Haye is a far better allrounder than Bruno, he`d beat him handsomley.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by NazNaci1 »

I would favour Bruno to beat pretty much all the crap around today, your Arreola's, Chambers, Povetkin, Snoworski etc...

Only Vitali and Haye could do give him a test.

In particular Vitali. I think he beats Wlad, however Haye has the speed to cause him some problems, though. If Bruno connects with regularity, then its probably 'goodnight'.

He was a very, very powerful puncher, good boxer and his chin was pretty good (he got stopped, but he could take big shots).
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Terminator666 »

Few things Bruno had over todays guys that maybe have not been mentioned.

Not coming into the ring like a tub of lard

Desire/will to win

Fitness/ conditioning-Though maybe not the best stamina but certainly not as bad as some today.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by LeedsLad »

forcefraser wrote:
LeedsLad wrote:
Happy Slapper wrote: Heart, Power, Finishing Ability and Punch Variety - Bruno? Are you sure? I beg to differ on these.

Anyway, what about class, desire, amateur pedigree, nerve, tactical awareness? Haye has all these in abundance.
''

Seriously?

Heart - Bruno would fight anybody, and always gave his all even when ultimately out of his depth against Tyson and Lewis.

Power - Haye hasn't sparked a legitimate top level HW. Bruno got rid of several.

Finishing Ability - so you are impressed when Haye just steams in throwing a million and one bombs from all angles, smothering his work and leaving himself wide open?

Punch Variety - yes, Bruno had a very good jab, could hook off it and a very good overhand right. Haye's jab is decent, his left hook pretty sloppy and a brilliant right hand.

As for desire, don't make me laugh :lol:

In the past three years all we've heard is contracts, purse splits and TV money. Bruno just fought whoever, McCall, Witherspoon etc.

Haye has really got you all fooled..... his record really is average in the grand scheme of things. Why people can't see that I've no idea. He's just very fortunate that this era is absolutely gash. He'd be in the lower half of the top 10 in the 1990's, if that.
Who hasBruno stopped amongst top heavyweight? Joe Bugner? Gerry Coetze? Jumbo Cummins?

I`d actually put Monty Barret and Ruiz aove those guys.

Haye is a far better allrounder than Bruno, he`d beat him handsomley.
So Ruiz, Barrett and Valuev are better than Oliver McCall, Carl Williams etc?

Jeez......

Take the Haye-tinted specs off!
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

I don't see how anyone other than Vitali would beat Bruno in today's era
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by reggaereggae »

bengulnaci1 wrote:I would favour Bruno to beat pretty much all the crap around today, your Arreola's, Chambers, Povetkin, Snoworski etc...

Only Vitali and Haye could do give him a test.

In particular Vitali. I think he beats Wlad, however Haye has the speed to cause him some problems, though. If Bruno connects with regularity, then its probably 'goodnight'.

He was a very, very powerful puncher, good boxer and his chin was pretty good (he got stopped, but he could take big shots).
Bruno was a big puncher....but let's remember who did he beat that was any good?


Oliver McCall - very tough, and certainly decent but basically a journeyman....and Bruno just hung on and was suffering from crack withdrawal.

Gerrie Coetzee - didn't train, not that good anyway....

Anyone half decent beat him. I would rate him at number 10
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by McCannW14 »

Riddick Blowe wrote:I don't see how anyone other than Vitali would beat Bruno in today's era
Agreed. Bruno would crush Haye, who nearly got ko'd by Lolenga Mock FFS.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by reggaereggae »

McCannW14 wrote:
Riddick Blowe wrote:I don't see how anyone other than Vitali would beat Bruno in today's era
Agreed. Bruno would crush Haye, who nearly got ko'd by Lolenga Mock FFS.
Madness. Bruno is a heavyweighter but clumsy and inaccurate....

Haye would overwhelm him, Wlad would never get hit by him and bust him up, Povetkin would confuse and land on him...

Why do you think Duff (or whoever) protected him so mych? Because he was a charismatic puncher who couldn't box and had a suspect chin
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by NazNaci1 »

I think your being a little harsh mate.

Bruno would do well against this crop of HW's. As I have said before, its not that this crop of HW's are any good, theyre not.

He would KO the likes of Chambers, Arreola, Thompson, Snoworski, Rathman, Austin and whoever else the governing bodies have ranked in there top 10.

Vitali would be favourite to win, Haye would be a live underdog and possibly Wlad could have enough to beat him (unless Bruno can get past his jab and land, as Bruno lacked speed).

None of this meand Bruno is no suddenly some sort of 'Great', he isn't. Its more a case that the HW's, at the moment are a true sack of s#%t.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by reggaereggae »

bengulnaci1 wrote:I think your being a little harsh mate.

Bruno would do well against this crop of HW's. As I have said before, its not that this crop of HW's are any good, theyre not.

He would KO the likes of Chambers, Arreola, Thompson, Snoworski, Rathman, Austin and whoever else the governing bodies have ranked in there top 10.

Vitali would be favourite to win, Haye would be a live underdog and possibly Wlad could have enough to beat him (unless Bruno can get past his jab and land, as Bruno lacked speed).

None of this meand Bruno is no suddenly some sort of 'Great', he isn't. Its more a case that the HW's, at the moment are a true sack of s#%t.
Understood - but did he beat anyone better than the above?

His reputation is based on who he lost to, not who he won.

Bruno had heart, could punch quite well, but was vulnerable, lacked stamina and technique.


Who did he beat even close to their prime and who was good?

Bruno is comparable to say Tommy Morrriosn (though in my opinion less so) IE an entertaining punhcer but vulnerable and cannot beat the best.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Happy Slapper »

reggaereggae wrote:
bengulnaci1 wrote:I think your being a little harsh mate.

Bruno would do well against this crop of HW's. As I have said before, its not that this crop of HW's are any good, theyre not.

He would KO the likes of Chambers, Arreola, Thompson, Snoworski, Rathman, Austin and whoever else the governing bodies have ranked in there top 10.

Vitali would be favourite to win, Haye would be a live underdog and possibly Wlad could have enough to beat him (unless Bruno can get past his jab and land, as Bruno lacked speed).

None of this meand Bruno is no suddenly some sort of 'Great', he isn't. Its more a case that the HW's, at the moment are a true sack of s#%t.
Understood - but did he beat anyone better than the above?

His reputation is based on who he lost to, not who he won.

Bruno had heart, could punch quite well, but was vulnerable, lacked stamina and technique.


Who did he beat even close to their prime and who was good?

Bruno is comparable to say Tommy Morrriosn (though in my opinion less so) IE an entertaining punhcer but vulnerable and cannot beat the best.
Spot on.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by adamheight »

haye v bruno would be a great fight. i think bruno could do it.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Jon Saxon »

Happy Slapper wrote:
reggaereggae wrote:
bengulnaci1 wrote:I think your being a little harsh mate.

Bruno would do well against this crop of HW's. As I have said before, its not that this crop of HW's are any good, theyre not.

He would KO the likes of Chambers, Arreola, Thompson, Snoworski, Rathman, Austin and whoever else the governing bodies have ranked in there top 10.

Vitali would be favourite to win, Haye would be a live underdog and possibly Wlad could have enough to beat him (unless Bruno can get past his jab and land, as Bruno lacked speed).

None of this meand Bruno is no suddenly some sort of 'Great', he isn't. Its more a case that the HW's, at the moment are a true sack of s#%t.
Understood - but did he beat anyone better than the above?

His reputation is based on who he lost to, not who he won.

Bruno had heart, could punch quite well, but was vulnerable, lacked stamina and technique.


Who did he beat even close to their prime and who was good?

Bruno is comparable to say Tommy Morrriosn (though in my opinion less so) IE an entertaining punhcer but vulnerable and cannot beat the best.
Spot on.
Tommy beat big George I don't think Bruno could have.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by Jon Saxon »

LeedsLad wrote:I don't see how Haye can beat Bruno.

Other than speed, what advantages does he have?

His record isn't exactly stellar, is it? And he's hardly had to earn his top 3 ranking by beating good fighters, has he?

Power - Bruno
Chin - Bruno
Heart - Bruno
Stamina - Bruno
Footwork - Even
Finishing Ability - Bruno
Punch Variety - Bruno
Speed - Haye
Height & Reach - Bruno
Defence - Even

So that's 7-1-2 in Frank's favour. Haye really isn't that good, something that will be proven if and when he fights Wlad. People have short memories on here. Would Haye even have the stones to fight Tyson x2, Lewis, Witherspoon and so on?

lol what planet are you on mate?
He who lands first comes to mind and that would defo be Haye.
How can you say Bruno has more power?? Bruno never ko'ed anyone who was in their prime, Bruno never fought and beat a live dog like Haye has, (albiet at cruiser)
Defence? lol Bruno learned to cheat the older he got with low blows, heatbuts etc
Heart? Haye has a fighters heart, he kept swinging when Thompson was stopping him, he gets up to win, Frank even done that?
Footwork? Big Frank "das staute" Haye looks like Jones Jnr compared to Franks George Foerman impression.
Finishing abilty? FFS have you seen the amount of punches Bruno missed Tyson with once he hurt him??
Punch variety........oh dear god.....Bruno tbf threw a not bad 'hook of the jab' but could he even throw say an 'up jab' a 'check hook'? Haye again looks like a mega stylist compared to the mummy.

Dont make me laugh mate, you clearly know NOTHING about boxing.

Your post is one of THE worst I have ever read on ANY forum.
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by LeedsLad »

So because I disagree with you I know nothing at all?

To suggest that Haye has better finishing ability is absolutely laughable. You are comparing apples with oranges. There's a massive difference between swinging for the fences against a genuine ATG in Tyson, and throwing a million and one wild bombs against old ass Ruiz, old Valuev, journeyman Harrison.

It seems this is the David Haye fanclub, I think I'll get my coat :roll:

You are the most arrogant twat I've ever come across in any forum. Go and swim in acid you prick.

:TU:
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Re: Where would a Prime Bruno be ranked in todays HW Division?

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

kingfinn wrote:
MachoMan09 wrote:Lewis wasn't in his prime when he fought Frank, he was still developing.

Bruno would be ranked lower than Povetkin and on a level with the Chambers, Dimitrenkos and Peters of the world; probably the best of that bunch.
Pretty sure he was a world champion when he fought frank. Maybe not at his absolute peak now i think about it though i'll give you that, but still superior to the one that vitali fought.
He was many years from his peak. Lewis got by on his athletic gifts and power early in his career, really, he didn't peak until he trained with Manny Steward after the McCall loss. That loss made him.
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