Big LD was playing well too. That is a big blow, never thought Easterby should have been in at his expense but at the expense of Back.
These call ups have been an even bigger kick in the teeth for Wales than the initial squad selection - although I am not overly complaining that Simon got in instead of Charvis.
Still say it will be New Zealand all the way.
I think O Gara's criticism is a little unjust. Sure, his goal kicking was atrocious but his kicking out of hand at the start of the second half won them the game (as it settle the team down). Although yes, he was down on Wilko and Jones before the game and even further down now.
OFF TOPIC: THE BOX REC OFFICIAL LIONS THREAD.
i love the welsh, they are funny as all heck but ido think they need to realise that you wont beat the best running ruigby team in the world by playing them at their own game.
simply dont have the players to do that and thats the welsh style at present. They need to dominate up front first and for that you need to have the best pack, unfortunately i dont htink the 8 best forwards in the british isles have that many welshman in it.
Just an opinion, while i do find some of woodwards squad selections strange i understand why he may have done it. My welsh mates seem to think they are being picked on but its just woodward picking on experience i guess.
Not condoning it but nor am i condeming it, if he wins the series he will have been totally justified if he doesnt he wont.
simple as that.
simply dont have the players to do that and thats the welsh style at present. They need to dominate up front first and for that you need to have the best pack, unfortunately i dont htink the 8 best forwards in the british isles have that many welshman in it.
Just an opinion, while i do find some of woodwards squad selections strange i understand why he may have done it. My welsh mates seem to think they are being picked on but its just woodward picking on experience i guess.
Not condoning it but nor am i condeming it, if he wins the series he will have been totally justified if he doesnt he wont.
simple as that.
isnt cockbain australian by birth?stujones wrote:I was a big fan of Simon Shaw but fail to see what he has done in the last 12 months to justify being picked above Cockbain.
and don't get me started on Kevin Morgan's exclusion.
sorry if so then he should not play for the lions
i dont agree with all this country swapping its bullshit and the kiwis are the worst.
Most the side is friggin Fijian or samoan. Rathbone being cpatain of the SA under 21s then playing for Oz is a disgrace too and Henry Paul (just to show im not biased totally).
but agreed theres people who deserve to be there more thsan Shaw imo.
Think morhgan lost out due to such competwetiveness for the full back and wing postions. But agreeed he should have at least made the plane.
Agreed. Brent Cockbain is an Australian. The very fact he has been allowed to pull on the Welsh shirt shows just how low the Taffs are prepared to stoop to beat the English. To suggest he should be considered for The Lions is a scandal in itself. Stu Jones, you should be ashamed.
(Prepare for the Josh Lewsey is a Welshman propaganda).
(Prepare for the Josh Lewsey is a Welshman propaganda).
stujones wrote:I was a big fan of Simon Shaw but fail to see what he has done in the last 12 months to justify being picked above Cockbain.
and don't get me started on Kevin Morgan's exclusion.
Totally with you on Kevin Morgan. He should have been on the list ahead of Balshaw, Murphy, Horgan.
Shaw is in good form. The thing that's hampered his career is lack of consistency. But on his day he is eminently capable of outplaying Chris Jack. Cockbain, for all his abilities, is not.
they wouldnt consider cockbain for a the lions.
and rightly so, theres no need, i can understand the national sides geting away with it (and the worst i hasten to add are the Kiwis, most the team is samoan or fijian by blood / birth.)
Something needs to be done about this in the game, i also hate the fact that Henry paul played for Nz at league yet played for England at Union.
its a scandal so is the aussie (saffie) winger rathbone.
I think you should have blood links at the very least to play for a country or be born there. At the moment its a joke
and rightly so, theres no need, i can understand the national sides geting away with it (and the worst i hasten to add are the Kiwis, most the team is samoan or fijian by blood / birth.)
Something needs to be done about this in the game, i also hate the fact that Henry paul played for Nz at league yet played for England at Union.
its a scandal so is the aussie (saffie) winger rathbone.
I think you should have blood links at the very least to play for a country or be born there. At the moment its a joke
Hahahahahahahaha John Hayes
You are so bad.
Is John Hayes worse than Al Baxter? Clash of the Tight Ants.
There are a number of problems with the nationality thing. You're getting your steer from governments - if the French will give Brian Liednburg and Peter de Villiers a passport then they're entitled to play for the country. And New Zealand has a special relationship with the Islands, they've all got relatives in Auckland so it's easy for them to come over and claim citizenship. Those Islanders keep excellent tabs on their extended family - hence Inga Tuigamala, David Tua, The Rock and the Fighting Samoans all being cousins. Not a family I'd want to piss off. Martin Pugh and Kevin Barry must be shitting bricks in case they go inside.
When I was living in NZ I remember having a conversation with a kiwi guy about this who was laughing about Mike Catt being a Saffer brought in by England. He could not for the life of him see the hypocrisy in decrying that yet refusing to see the huge bloody Islanders drafted in to the ABs as anything other than kiwis. His argument that New Zealand has become a mongrel race didn't hold water.
This Pacific Island Team is a joke anyway. Nice idea but it's just a supermarket for NZ and Australia, making it easier for them to go shopping rather than having to watch inter-Island games.
I'd have the IRB impose a flat match fee for any international of Group 1 status for all players. That way the guys get the same cash for playing for their own country as they would for a big hitter. Paid for out of a central pot, with contributions from all nations to match their individual finances.
You are so bad.
Is John Hayes worse than Al Baxter? Clash of the Tight Ants.
There are a number of problems with the nationality thing. You're getting your steer from governments - if the French will give Brian Liednburg and Peter de Villiers a passport then they're entitled to play for the country. And New Zealand has a special relationship with the Islands, they've all got relatives in Auckland so it's easy for them to come over and claim citizenship. Those Islanders keep excellent tabs on their extended family - hence Inga Tuigamala, David Tua, The Rock and the Fighting Samoans all being cousins. Not a family I'd want to piss off. Martin Pugh and Kevin Barry must be shitting bricks in case they go inside.
When I was living in NZ I remember having a conversation with a kiwi guy about this who was laughing about Mike Catt being a Saffer brought in by England. He could not for the life of him see the hypocrisy in decrying that yet refusing to see the huge bloody Islanders drafted in to the ABs as anything other than kiwis. His argument that New Zealand has become a mongrel race didn't hold water.
This Pacific Island Team is a joke anyway. Nice idea but it's just a supermarket for NZ and Australia, making it easier for them to go shopping rather than having to watch inter-Island games.
I'd have the IRB impose a flat match fee for any international of Group 1 status for all players. That way the guys get the same cash for playing for their own country as they would for a big hitter. Paid for out of a central pot, with contributions from all nations to match their individual finances.
just watched the game and a much more cohesive performance, back, jenkins and peel were outstanding.
byrne hit the linouts and it was the backs who failed to fire.
team for ther test is taking place but at present mine is as follows
15. Lewsey
14. Thomas
13/ O driscoll
12 henson
11 Robinson
10. Wilko / Jones (its still not clear)
9 Peel
8 Owen/ Corry - again still in the mix
7. Back (tough on williams but he just wins so much ball on the floor he was outstanding today)
6. Hill
5. O conner
4 Grewcock
3 Jenkins
2 Byrne
1. White
byrne hit the linouts and it was the backs who failed to fire.
team for ther test is taking place but at present mine is as follows
15. Lewsey
14. Thomas
13/ O driscoll
12 henson
11 Robinson
10. Wilko / Jones (its still not clear)
9 Peel
8 Owen/ Corry - again still in the mix
7. Back (tough on williams but he just wins so much ball on the floor he was outstanding today)
6. Hill
5. O conner
4 Grewcock
3 Jenkins
2 Byrne
1. White
Pretty much agree - although I think there are some positions that are not set in stone.
Not sure if Thomas has got the test spot confirmed at 14. Although does look likely.
Henson hasn't done much all tour, Shanklin has been a star. I think as Scott Quinnell said today, Shanklin has got to be tried out at 12. Henson/D'Arcy have'nt done much.
No 10 is close, I would also include Hodgson in the argument.
I think it is advantage Corry for the number 8 spot.
Back looks the 7.
I don't think Hill is set in stone for 6, he was very dissapointing vs the Maori's - Simon Easterby had a stormer today, I'm telling you the guy is class.
Tight five I agree with, although Kay and Grewcock are close.
Not sure if Thomas has got the test spot confirmed at 14. Although does look likely.
Henson hasn't done much all tour, Shanklin has been a star. I think as Scott Quinnell said today, Shanklin has got to be tried out at 12. Henson/D'Arcy have'nt done much.
No 10 is close, I would also include Hodgson in the argument.
I think it is advantage Corry for the number 8 spot.
Back looks the 7.
I don't think Hill is set in stone for 6, he was very dissapointing vs the Maori's - Simon Easterby had a stormer today, I'm telling you the guy is class.
Tight five I agree with, although Kay and Grewcock are close.
yeah agree stu.
the only test certs at the moment for me are : Lewsey, peel, back, o connell, hill & jenkins.
i know you rate easterby but hill is the best blindside in the world on his day the defensive work he gets trhough is amazing and we are gonna need that with dally gone and their back row.
o dris obviously is a test cert but only cos he is captain on this form.
his captaincy worries me too.
the only test certs at the moment for me are : Lewsey, peel, back, o connell, hill & jenkins.
i know you rate easterby but hill is the best blindside in the world on his day the defensive work he gets trhough is amazing and we are gonna need that with dally gone and their back row.
o dris obviously is a test cert but only cos he is captain on this form.
his captaincy worries me too.
I agree, but highlighted the key problem. He was rusty as anything vs the Maori's and he was the weak link the caused Martyn Williams to look poor. Unlike today there was no support for the openside. Thats why I think Corry is and Easterby should be favourites for the test spot.J wrote:yeah agree stu.
the only test certs at the moment for me are : Lewsey, peel, back, o connell, hill & jenkins.
i know you rate easterby but hill is the best blindside in the world on his day the defensive work he gets trhough is amazing and we are gonna need that with dally gone and their back row.
o dris obviously is a test cert but only cos he is captain on this form.
his captaincy worries me too.
Seems pretty evident they were playing Shanklin as a pseudo-Thomas until Thomas came out. It also seems pretty evident that Shanks made a better fist of things. He's not done a lot wrong and Thomas just got skinned by a reserve centre.
Not Grewcock, please. Shaw, happily. Grewcock's just going to give away penalties and get himself sent off.
Rumours of Wilko at 12 and Jones at 10 for the tests. Not sure I fancy Wilkinson's defence that much.
Charlotte Church would definitely catch one.
Not Grewcock, please. Shaw, happily. Grewcock's just going to give away penalties and get himself sent off.
Rumours of Wilko at 12 and Jones at 10 for the tests. Not sure I fancy Wilkinson's defence that much.
Charlotte Church would definitely catch one.
Been busy, only just seen the team for Southland and therefore the likely test 22.
Ummm what a poor test team.
Greenwood or Wilko at 12 (should be neither).
Martyn Williams was much better on Saturday, out.
Shanklin has been THE form back (outside of Peel and possibly Lewsey) out.
Dawson over Cussiter?
Graham Rowntree?
Its poor.
What is the betting that the 9, 10 , 12 for the test team is DAWSON, Wilko and Greenwood.
Ummm what a poor test team.
Greenwood or Wilko at 12 (should be neither).
Martyn Williams was much better on Saturday, out.
Shanklin has been THE form back (outside of Peel and possibly Lewsey) out.
Dawson over Cussiter?
Graham Rowntree?
Its poor.
What is the betting that the 9, 10 , 12 for the test team is DAWSON, Wilko and Greenwood.
GOTTA AGREE STU BUT IM NOT SURE HE WONT SURPRISE BLACKS AND PLAY HENSON.
its a travesty if he plays what you saying.
back i still think should play, but greenwood / dawson no way.
and not johnny at inside centree, thats so negative and slows the whole backline down, glaring lack of pace if he does that.
its a travesty if he plays what you saying.
back i still think should play, but greenwood / dawson no way.
and not johnny at inside centree, thats so negative and slows the whole backline down, glaring lack of pace if he does that.
With the way Wilko's tackling, he can't pick him at 12. Henry will have Umaga charging at full pelt in the first 5 to spanner him. Henson has to play 12 simply because no-one else who's filled the sirt on this tour has done a half-decent job.
Smoke and mirrors, some of this. Has to be.
The XV I'd go for is
1 Jenkins
2 Byrne
3 White
4 O'Connell
5 Corry
6 Hill
7 Back
8 Owen
9 Peel
10 Jones
11 Williams
12 Henson
13 BOD
14 Thomas
15 Lewsey
16 Thompson
17 Sheridan
18 Grewcock
19 Jones
20 Cusiter
21 Wilko
22 Robinson
Of that lot, byrne means we win line-outs, Corry at lock means we win line-outs and also have a rumbling forward but have room for Owen, Back's just good and still has it, Jones is steady and whilst he has weaknesses I have more confidence in him than Wilko at this stage, Williams does what Robinson used to, Henson's solid and has a top boot.
Weak link = BOD...
Smoke and mirrors, some of this. Has to be.
The XV I'd go for is
1 Jenkins
2 Byrne
3 White
4 O'Connell
5 Corry
6 Hill
7 Back
8 Owen
9 Peel
10 Jones
11 Williams
12 Henson
13 BOD
14 Thomas
15 Lewsey
16 Thompson
17 Sheridan
18 Grewcock
19 Jones
20 Cusiter
21 Wilko
22 Robinson
Of that lot, byrne means we win line-outs, Corry at lock means we win line-outs and also have a rumbling forward but have room for Owen, Back's just good and still has it, Jones is steady and whilst he has weaknesses I have more confidence in him than Wilko at this stage, Williams does what Robinson used to, Henson's solid and has a top boot.
Weak link = BOD...
Ryan Jones was excellent on Saturday, great performance. Do you guys reckon he deserves a place in the 15? Def. glad he seems to be ahead of Owen who for all his fancy handling might struggle with the strength of McCaw, Collins etc. Think Corry, Back and Hill will be the back row but he will make a good impact player.
Also would play Murphy on the wing, seems to have really found his form on this tour and would have him ahead of both Robinson and Thomas on current form. Henson should be the inside centre. If Wilko is off form then he shouldn't play
According to Clive are the bench players for Wednesday also not going to be considered for the test 22? Think Sheridan should def. be on the bench ahead of Rowntree.
Also would play Murphy on the wing, seems to have really found his form on this tour and would have him ahead of both Robinson and Thomas on current form. Henson should be the inside centre. If Wilko is off form then he shouldn't play
According to Clive are the bench players for Wednesday also not going to be considered for the test 22? Think Sheridan should def. be on the bench ahead of Rowntree.
Jones was very good against a vaunted back row but I'd be reluctant to pitch him straight into a starting line-up.
He's a good balance between the biff of Corry and the lines and hands of Owen, though. I don't think Woodward will plump for him in the starting line-up, mind...
Murphy is a class act but is horribly out of form. Mind you, Shane Horgan's not in the Southland squand and he's just horrible. And if you're looking for a good player out of form then Greenwood is your man...
Shanklin's unlucky. He's done everything asked of him and more.
Rowntree played (and scrummaged) really well against Otago. I can see why he's there but Sheridan defintely offers a bit more, especially from the bench. Anybody else reckon his face looks a little 'unnatural'?
I just like Corry at lock because he does have good line-out presence and he has the work-rate and go-forward that seem to be lacking from our second rows.
All in, Lions is decent fun while boxing's getting slack.
He's a good balance between the biff of Corry and the lines and hands of Owen, though. I don't think Woodward will plump for him in the starting line-up, mind...
Murphy is a class act but is horribly out of form. Mind you, Shane Horgan's not in the Southland squand and he's just horrible. And if you're looking for a good player out of form then Greenwood is your man...
Shanklin's unlucky. He's done everything asked of him and more.
Rowntree played (and scrummaged) really well against Otago. I can see why he's there but Sheridan defintely offers a bit more, especially from the bench. Anybody else reckon his face looks a little 'unnatural'?
I just like Corry at lock because he does have good line-out presence and he has the work-rate and go-forward that seem to be lacking from our second rows.
All in, Lions is decent fun while boxing's getting slack.
Swap Corry and Owen around. Owen is a natural lock. I've been thinking that maybe they should try Owen there for a while now. Is more known in Wales as a lock only in the last season he has been playing exclusively at 8.J wrote:interesting mate to have corry at 5 but with Jack the only line out forward of note for the blacks, that might have an interesitng element to it. nice thinking.
i agree i cant see who else you pick at 12?
Would have wilko over jones but other than that pretty much what i would select.