Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

Around 1980 Don Chargin bought a mid-'70's Cadillac Eldorado from Olympic Auditorium pomoter Aileen Eaton. He asked me about getting it painted. "Sure, the boys and I will paint it for you", "how much" asked Don, get me two pairs of Flores 14 oz. training gloves and its a done deal. And so it was.

[Rick Farris]

Cnorkusjr, I read your father defeated Danny Nardico twice, wasn't it Nardico who ended Jake Lamotta's career?

Yes, Pretty much but you have to take things into consideration.
When they fought Lamotta was 31 with a zillion tough fights under his belt, where Danny was a rising star at 25. Danny knocked down Jake,supposedly his only knockdown in his career, and his corner stopped the onslaught wisely in the ring between Rds 8-9.
Jake did come back 2 years later in 1954 to win 2, lose 1 but he was just a shell of who and what he was. I think it had to do with getting some money in his pocket as he was virtually broke at the time.

Danny moved on to bigger and better things. In 1954, Danny had moved up to heavy after fighting as a lt-Heavy top contender. He was promised a shot at Marciano if he could get by my father. Weill and the IBC sent my father down to Fla. to test Danny for Marciano.
Danny lost a ferocious battle in Jan 1954. My father returned to New York and met with Rocky and Weill and said that Rocky would kill him in the ring,and though he keeps coming at you,his punches dont carry the weight of a full heavy. Danny was better staying at Lt-Heavy and going after Moore or Maxim.

My father and Danny were about the same age.
Because of the national calling for a rematch-my father fought Danny again in March (2 months later). My father met Danny after that fight and my father said that Danny took a bad beating from my dad in the first fight that that my father felt Danny wasnt the same.
Like Jake, Danny fought 3 more times and got a pair of wins and a lose and hung them up.

I talked to my father about fighters moving up in weight over the years.
He mentioned that if a fighter is a young lad starting out and he grows "naturally" into a heavier weight class, thats fine. An example of that would be Willie Pastrano.

But many fighters see bigger paydays as weight classes jump. Many fighters will be (my fathers slang) un-natural and have a very hard time adjusting even if its 5-6 lbs.
My father said lighter weights bantam-lights might be able to handle the frame better,but the speed of punching is slower.
Rick and Randy- Do you agree with that ?
The heavier weights definitly takes its toll in punches and a fighter cant handle the frame weight either,making him exhausted over 10 rounds.Some have done it quite successfully my father went on, but most cant handle the jump, especially if they were fighting at the lower weight for a great deal of time.

Too much Weight . . .

Charlie, I can remember when I was fighting at bantam or feather, that just a few pounds made a big difference. I'm concerned about MAnny Pac, his talent is better than other fighters today. In another era, one with heavier competition, he would not be able to win the fights he does today at heavier weights. However, people are just plain stupid when they ask why he doesn't take on middleweights. That's exactly what he does when he steps in with a guy like Margarito. He wins the fight, but it always takes a greater toll on him than it would a natural at that weight. This is one reason I respect Pac the way I do. He fights them, younger, mid-career, mature. He is the only real fighter in the entire sport today, at least from a "throw back" stand point. I have always had the greaest respect for the incredible Mexican fighters. I know how great some are, however, in today's world they can just take a back seat with the rest of the world until Manny wears out, which won't be much longer, as he is facing another tough fight on May 7th. "OLD" Shane Mosely may have lost his youthful edge, but he is a strong, powerful and proud former champ. He's coming in to win, and although I expect Manny to succeed, the fight will take a heavy toll simply based on Shane's natural size and strength. I think I am one of the few people who realize just how great this Pac is, the greatest fighter of this era, the post-Duran era. However, the Mosely fight isn't a "sure thing" as some people believe. Shane looked bad in a recent bout with a very third rate fighter from East LA, it happens, especially when the ELA kid fought scared to death. I look forward to May 7th, it will likely be the last decent high-profile bout this year. That's all we get these days, one or two worthwhile bouts per year, overall.

[Rick Farris]

Around 1980 Don Chargin bought a mid-'70's Cadillac Eldorado from Olympic Auditorium pomoter Aileen Eaton. He asked me about getting it painted. "Sure, the boys and I will paint it for you", "how much" asked Don, get me two pairs of Flores 14 oz. training gloves and its a done deal. And so it was.

GREAT story!

[CNorkusJr]

Around 1980 Don Chargin bought a mid-'70's Cadillac Eldorado from Olympic Auditorium pomoter Aileen Eaton. He asked me about getting it painted. "Sure, the boys and I will paint it for you", "how much" asked Don, get me two pairs of Flores 14 oz. training gloves and its a done deal. And so it was.

Your sons sure gave their opponents a "Paint job" in the ring with those gloves Frank !

[Rick Farris]

The only fighter missing from his resume (Erik Morales resume) is the great Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know why that fight never happened.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good question. Another name missing from Marquez's record, aside from Morales, is Marco Antonio Barrera. Both seemed to skip over Marquez.
Guess who fought them all, and more than once? The best of them all, Manny Pacquiao! Manny has avoided nobody, young or old.
Can't say that about all of the Mexican's stars of the time, or the American's. The Filippino kid has out done them all.

Rick, Do you think Manny Pacquiao would have beaten Roberto Duran, Duran was one hell of a ring technician, and heavy handed, my all-time favourite "Hands Of Stone".

Cholo, Duran is also my favorite. If Duran entered the ring againstr Pac out of shape, which he often did with others thruout his career, he'd lose.
Both in top shape? I'll go with Duran, but it would not be easy. Both are master boxers with unorthodox styles, both hit hard, both take a great shot.
I believe it would be one of the greatest fights ever, especially at 135 pounds. Guys like Marquez, Barrera and Morales have been some of my favorites in recent years, but not one is as good as Pacquiao. They were some of the best of our era, I rate Pac competitive in any era. That's my opinion.

[kikibalt]

Adamek vs McBride tonight in Newark NJ. Didnt check TV listings yet-hopefully on HBO or Showtime or ESPN TV.
$53 tickets available for $20 through NJ Boxing Hall of Fame.
Who said fights are affordable nowadays.

In 1951 I paid 5 bucks to see Art Aragon fight Jimmy Carter for Carter's lightweight title. In the early '50's general admission fare for the weekly Olympic Auditorium fights was about two bucks.

[kikibalt]

Around 1980 Don Chargin bought a mid-'70's Cadillac Eldorado from Olympic Auditorium pomoter Aileen Eaton. He asked me about getting it painted. "Sure, the boys and I will paint it for you", "how much" asked Don, get me two pairs of Flores 14 oz. training gloves and its a done deal. And so it was.

Your sons sure gave their opponents a "Paint job" in the ring with those gloves Frank !

They tried Charlie

[Rick Farris]

Man, I'm still ticked off about the beating of a San Francisco giant fan last week by some cowardly punks. I hope they catch them. the man was beaten in front of his kids. I hope they get the same treatment by the cops, on video so we can all applaud!

I love going to the Dodger stadium. Never had a problem. These were not real Dodger fans. Cowardly bastids!

This incident got good coverage here in New York papers and TV news.
Enough to warrant a full page article about security measures at our New York area stadiums as well. Hope they get these rat bastids too.

The punks that beat that poor guy were gang banger types. In other words, professional cowards.
Hopefully they will be killed soon. Death to all gang members, Black, White & Latino gangsters are punks. I enjoy hearing of one being popped.
This has resulted in increased LAPD presence at Dodger games. Walter O'Malley is rolling in his grave.
The Dodgers have always been a class operation, and Dodger Stadium a place where people can go and have clean fun.
After Davey Moore was killed in a featherweight title defense in 1963, boxing was permanently banned from being held at Dodger Stadium.
Walter O'Malley made it known that Dodger Stadium was not built as a place where athletes risk death in competition. Fans? No way will it be tolerated.
Like Randy, I love going to Dodger Stadium.

[CNorkusJr]

Rick I agree with your analysis with Manny. I too am on his bandwagon, and why not ? Hes pfp one of the best out there. I think you are giving Mosely too much credit though.
I dont think its going to be close. Nothing to do with age, I think Shane is going through the motions for a pay-day. I dont think he has the heart left- I think he knows Manny is THE guy right now and is Thankful for a shot.
What makes this sport so great is the surprise element that it carries. Can Mosely score a KO over Pac-man ? possibly. I dont think if it goes the distance that Mosely wins on points-no way. Can Mosely go the distance with Manny ? possibly. It will definitely takes it toll at the public conception of Manny though. Mosely can beat Margarito- I feel. Manny is a rising star and unfortunately no one around to test him but Mayweather.
If he doesnt get his due from Mayweather,sooner than later,two things could happen-
Manny goes to politics and stays there (unlikely)- or worse, going up to in weight to face the new world. It would be a disaster for him I think.
If I were a betting man- Manny over Mosely KO in 2-3. Giving Mosely his just due.

[Rick Farris]

Frank, Flores gloves seemed to be used a lot in the 40's and 50's. I'd like to get a pair Flores sparring gloves, i often look on ebay, i'm in my late 40's and still go to the gym and do a bit of sparring, i run most mornings there's nothing like it....

Hey Cholo, do you live in Southern Cal?

Rick, I wish......i live in the not so sunny uk.

The U.K.??? A Cholo from Great Britain? Cheers, amigo!
I wanted to invite you to the California Boxing Hall of Fame lunch in June, but I can see that distance will be an issue.
Still, if you should be in Southern Cal at the time, you are welcome.

[Rick Farris]

Rick I agree with your analysis with Manny. I too am on his bandwagon, and why not ? Hes pfp one of the best out there. I think you are giving Mosely too much credit though.
I dont think its going to be close. Nothing to do with age, I think Shane is going through the motions for a pay-day. I dont think he has the heart left- I think he knows Manny is THE guy right now and is Thankful for a shot.
What makes this sport so great is the surprise element that it carries. Can Mosely score a KO over Pac-man ? possibly. I dont think if it goes the distance that Mosely wins on points-no way. Can Mosely go the distance with Manny ? possibly. It will definitely takes it toll at the public conception of Manny though. Mosely can beat Margarito- I feel. Manny is a rising star and unfortunately no one around to test him but Mayweather.
If he doesnt get his due from Mayweather,sooner than later,two things could happen-
Manny goes to politics and stays there (unlikely)- or worse, going up to in weight to face the new world. It would be a disaster for him I think.
If I were a betting man- Manny over Mosely KO in 2-3. Giving Mosely his just due.

I don't believe Shane will win, just not go out easy. I hope it does end quick, for Shane's future health, but I think it will last longer?
Of all of Shane's bouts, the one that I loved most was him entering the ring agaginst MArgarito, a past prime 5-1 under dog, and flattening Margo.
I'm happy to see Margarito on the down side. I will say this, I thouroughly enjoyed watching him take his beating from Pac like a man.

[bennie]

The funeral of Gil Clancy took place last Monday in the balmy setting of Malverne in the shadow of New York City, the end of a journey that had begun a million Mondays earlier when Clancy shaped Emile Griffith into a formidable fighting machine from the late 1950s.
It was a journey marked by many highs and lows, most tragically by the death of Benny "Kid" Paret at the hands of Griffith 'live' on American-TV in 1962. Paret had labelled Griffith a "maricon" at the weigh-in but Clancy insists that the gay slur played no part in Griffith's frightening final onslaught in the 12th round. Dedicated, muscled and one of those complete fighters, Griffith, a man who went the full 15 rounds all of 18 times in his career, simply overwhelmed Paret at a stage in a fight when he always poured it on,
"Emile hit him with 17 punches in five seconds," said Clancy, with Paret unable to fall due to the ropes. (Referee Ruby Goldstein retired in the fight's wake.) "After that, Emile wouldn’t really go after the guy until the guy hit him a couple of times; then he'd start to fight."
Griffith was always the star of Clancy's show as he showed when he dropped horrible 15-round decision to Eckhard Dagge in Germany in 1976 for the WBC light-middleweight title. The title would and should have made Griffith, at the age of 38, the first three-weight champ since Henry Armstrong. "He went from the welterweight title when he beat Paret to become the middleweight champion when he beat Dick Tiger," said Glancy, but Gil was involved with countless other gifted fighters, among them George Foreman, Jerry Quarry, Harold Weston, Oscar De La Hoya and our own Ken Buchanan, before branching into TV-commentary with equal success.
"I guess Emile was the best," said Clancy, "but Jerry could really fight, he really knew how to fight. Kenny was also one helluva fighter. You know, it took a pretty good guy to beat him."
Clancy is survived by five children, 18 grandchildren and 19 great grandchildren. Sadly, the 73-year-old Griffith, in poor mental health, was unable to attend Gil's funeral.

[Cholo]

Hey Cholo, do you live in Southern Cal?

Rick, I wish......i live in the not so sunny uk.

The U.K.??? A Cholo from Great Britain? Cheers, amigo!
I wanted to invite you to the California Boxing Hall of Fame lunch in June, but I can see that distance will be an issue.
Still, if you should be in Southern Cal at the time, you are welcome.

Rick, Maybe not this year, but thanks for the offer, i appreciate it buddy..

[Cholo]

Adamek vs McBride tonight in Newark NJ. Didnt check TV listings yet-hopefully on HBO or Showtime or ESPN TV.
$53 tickets available for $20 through NJ Boxing Hall of Fame.
Who said fights are affordable nowadays.

In 1951 I paid 5 bucks to see Art Aragon fight Jimmy Carter for Carter's lightweight title. In the early '50's general admission fare for the weekly Olympic Auditorium fights was about two bucks.

Frank, i would have paid $500 to see that one, i've got to visit the Olympic Auditorium one of these days, do they still hold fights there?

[kikibalt]

Rick, I wish......i live in the not so sunny uk.

The U.K.??? A Cholo from Great Britain? Cheers, amigo!
I wanted to invite you to the California Boxing Hall of Fame lunch in June, but I can see that distance will be an issue.
Still, if you should be in Southern Cal at the time, you are welcome.

Rick, Maybe not this year, but thanks for the offer, i appreciate it buddy..

Paul, why the "Cholo" moniker?... DD

[kikibalt]

Adamek vs McBride tonight in Newark NJ. Didnt check TV listings yet-hopefully on HBO or Showtime or ESPN TV.
$53 tickets available for $20 through NJ Boxing Hall of Fame.
Who said fights are affordable nowadays.

In 1951 I paid 5 bucks to see Art Aragon fight Jimmy Carter for Carter's lightweight title. In the early '50's general admission fare for the weekly Olympic Auditorium fights was about two bucks.

Frank, i would have paid $500 to see that one, i've got to visit the Olympic Auditorium one of these days, do they still hold fights there?

No more fights there Paul... . Its a church now....

[Cholo]

The U.K.??? A Cholo from Great Britain? Cheers, amigo!
I wanted to invite you to the California Boxing Hall of Fame lunch in June, but I can see that distance will be an issue.
Still, if you should be in Southern Cal at the time, you are welcome.

Rick, Maybe not this year, but thanks for the offer, i appreciate it buddy..

Paul, why the "Cholo" moniker?... DD

Frank, My favourite fighter Duran, and it sounds cool....

[kikibalt]

Rick, Maybe not this year, but thanks for the offer, i appreciate it buddy..

Paul, why the "Cholo" moniker?... DD

Frank, My favourite fighter Duran, and it sounds cool....

Do you know what a "Cholo" is??

[Cholo]

Frank, I know Roberto Duran fought in Los Angeles a few times did you see any, 1973 Juan Medina TKO7 Javier Ayala W10
and 1983 Pipino Cuevas.

[kikibalt]

Manuel's Original...El Tepeyac...East Los Angeles



Fu*k it, lets eat....

[kikibalt]

Frank, I know Roberto Duran fought in Los Angeles a few times did you see any, 1973 Juan Medina TKO7 Javier Ayala W10
and 1983 Pipino Cuevas.

I seen the Ayala and Cuevas fights.

[Cholo]

Frank, Do you think Duran would have beaten Manny Pac, me i think a Roberto Duran in shape would have beaten any fighter that ever lived..

[Cholo]

Manuel's Original...El Tepeyac...East Los Angeles



Fu*k it, lets eat....

Man that looks awesome, i'd have to do some roadwork if i ate that every day.......LOL

[kikibalt]

Frank, Do you think Duran would have beaten Manny Pac, me i think a Roberto Duran in shape would have beaten any fighter that ever lived..

Both in prime I go with Duran. But I won't go as far as you in saying that that he could have beaten any fighter that ever lived, I think he would have had a hard time beating a prime Ike Williams...

[Randyman]

Marco Antonio Rubio vs David Lemieux

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6312836

This old story sums up the fight.

An old prospector shuffled into town leading an old tired mule.
The old man headed straight for the only saloon to clear his parched throat.

He walked up and tied his old mule to the hitch rail. As he stood there, brushing some of the dust from his face and clothes, a young gunslinger stepped out of the saloon with a gun in one hand and a bottle of whiskey in the other.

The young gunslinger looked at the old man and laughed, saying, "Hey old man, have you ever danced?"

The old man looked up at the gunslinger and said, "No, I never did dance.. never really wanted to."

A crowd had gathered as the gunslinger grinned and said, "Well, you old fool, you're gonna dance now," and started shooting at the old man's feet.

The old prospector - not wanting to get a toe blown off - started hopping around like a flea on a hot skillet. Everybody was laughing, fit to be tied.

When his last bullet had been fired, the young gunslinger, still laughing, holstered his gun and turned around to go back into the saloon.

The old man turned to his pack mule, pulled out a double-barrelled shotgun, and cocked both hammers.

The loud clicks carried clearly through the desert air.

The crowd stopped laughing immediately.

The young gunslinger heard the sounds too, and he turned around very slowly. The silence was almost deafening.

The crowd watched as the young gunman stared at the old timer and the large gaping holes of those twin barrels.

The barrels of the shotgun never wavered in the old man's hands, as he quietly said, "Son, have you ever licked a mule's ass?"

The gunslinger swallowed hard and said, "No sir..... but... I've always wanted to."

There are a few lessons for us all here:

Never be arrogant.

Don't waste ammunition.

Whiskey makes you think you're smarter than you are.

Always, always make sure you know who has the power.

Don't mess with old men; they didn't get old by being stupid.


Last night's fight between David Lemieux and Marco Antonio Rubio reminded me of that old story. While Rubio is not quite yet an old man, at 30, he is a seasoned veteran and has been around for a while. He may not be taking the world by storm just yet but he is a man that has clearly learned his craft. He passed a little of that knowledge on to his young and over anxious opponent. The lesson that Lemieux learned last night or at least we hope he learned, is that "patience is a virtue".

Marco Antonio Rubio, of Torreon, Mexico, entered the Bell Centre in Montreal, Quebec, Canada Saturday night, the decided underdog against the hometown hero David Lemieux. Who can blame them? With 25 wins under his belt, all but one ending by knockout in the early rounds, he was percieved as unbeatable by his countrymen. Rubio had plans of his own and it didn't include losing to a 22 year old hot shot, hometown or no hometown.

When the first round started Lemieux was on Rubio like a swarm of bees. The crowd was roaring at every punch he threw. Lemieux is a strong kid and hits hard but he didn't have the slightest concept of pacing himself. Rubio on the other hand proved to be a good defensive fighter, covering up, picking off most of the punches and biding his time. This went on for the first four or five rounds. In the fifth Lemieux slowed the pace a bit. Coming into the sixth round the momentum seemed to be shifting and then somewhere in the middle of the round Rubio took control of the fight. It started with a stiff right hand that shook Lemieux a bit. The crowd was quiet now. The stage was set for the next and final round as Rubio, in complete command of the fight now, had his way with Lemieux, dropping him in the corner. Referee Marlon Wright pulled Rubio away from Lemiex. A few seconds later, as Rubio was on the verge of knocking out Lemieux, Lemieux's cornerman Russ Anber motioned to the ref to stop the fight. It was a smart move on Anber's part.

Rubio is the kind of fighter that is hard not to like, durable, not flashy and with a quiet and unassuming demeanor. He clocks in, does his job, clocks out and goes home. What's not to like?

Lemieux? You gotta like him too. He was beaten, tired and humbled last night but I saw no quit in him. You can't fault a man for losing a fight. He's young and if his next few fights are handled properly he'll be back on track, only a little bit smarter.