Shavers Vs. Foreman: Who's The KO Master?

[Homicide Henry]

It is reputed that Earnie Shavers had the greatest KO percentage of any Heavyweight in modern times, with over 98 percent of his bouts by way of kayo.

Foreman is the Heavyweight Champion with the most Ko's to his credit, as a percentage of just under 90 percent.

But for my own personal opinion Marciano out did them both with his record of 49-0 with 43 Ko's.

[Justin]

Shavers was the best puncher of the three. Foreman was the biggest bully, and Marciano was the toughest who just plain wore his opponents down with brute force.

[Manrae]

Foreman had unbelievable power, young or old. Just watch his 2 matches against Fraizer and one with Michael Moorer. Not to mention he was better than Marciano and Shavers ever were.

[Justin]

The fight(s) vs Frazier were when Frazier was way past his prime... and Moorer has no chin, to go along with his mental instability.

[dmille]

The punchers who make it to the top have other attributes to go along with their power. The PURE puncher has nothing but power.

1) George had two handed power, Earnie had only right hand power

2) George had a granite chin, Earnie = glass joe

3) George early in his career had speed to go with his power, later he had patience and vastly improved technique.

Foreman all-time great fighter, Shavers harder puncher.
Matchup? Foreman KO1 Shavers

[Hitman]

Foreman is the better fight no doubt- but the question is simplky one of power is it not? foreman did have two fist power which is a big difference. with one single punch i think Shavers had the biggest ever- that right hand was real quick too. We know what Ali and Holmes say about the acorn.....

Hitman

[Marcellus]

Holmes got off the canvas to beat Shavers. Of course, Lyle got off the canvas, too, but then got ko'd by Foreman. But my guess is that if Foreman really caught Holmes, it would be over. Shavers fought an old Ali, got him big a few times, wobbled him, but no ko. If Foreman really got Ali or anybody else really good, all over. Frazier was not washed up at all in the first fight with Foreman. If Foreman had not quit after Young, he would have been champ a lont time. He had nice footwork and good
handspeed,although too slow for Ali. Foreman, if he had not quit, would be an all time gret champ. Look how good he was in this 40's. Can't even compare Shavers. Better comparison to Foreman is Liston

[Tantum]

[Dickhead]

Shavers was the best puncher of the three. Foreman was the biggest bully, and Marciano was the toughest who just plain wore his opponents down with brute force.

Thats a bunch of bologne. This is another of those false tales handed down over the years. Shavers was a hard hitter, yes, but not the best of all time. He did not have a 98% KO rating. Thats bologne too. He had 67 KO's out of 88 fights. Foreman was much harder than Shavers. Earnie was overrated, he lost 14 fights.

[Marcellus]

I am replying to Tantum. I tend to favor Foreman over Liston, because Liston had no heart and Foreman showed great courage in the Lyle fight, the Moorer fight, and the Holyfield fight. But Ring had Liston beating Foreman. Liston was a champion, and was hugely dominant in his era
until he ran into Clay. he crushed Patterson, Folley, Cleveland Williams,
Nino Valdez. He had good skills. If Ring had Liston over Foreman, it is a valid comparison.

Shavers, obviously, is not in the same league with either.

If Liston had no jail time, he would have been champ from 55 until 64. No Patterson. And he would have crushed Marciano.

[Cojimar 1945]

How could Liston have become champ so early if the champions were unwilling to fight him and were not made to fight him?

[Hesketh Vampire]

The fight(s) vs Frazier were when Frazier was way past his prime...

He certainly wasn't the first time they met in 1973, Frazier was the undefeated world champion and the only man to have beaten Muhammad Ali! To beat Frazier like Foreman did then was a remarkable achievement considering how strong Joe had been.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Foreman is defientely the better puncher of the two. heres why. George Foreman when he got his opponent hurt, he KNOCKED THEM OUT, ALMOST ALL OF THEM. HE COULD PUT PEOPLE AWAY A LOT BETTER THAN SHAVERS COULD. As mentioned before, foreman had two fisted power. shavers soley relied on his right hand. Foreman also knocked out better fighters than earnie did. Earnie shavers knocked out jimmy young and aging Ken nOrton. THOSE were shaver's best Kos. Now foreman on the other hand KOed frazier, prime norton, lyle, and an aging chuvalo. those were far better oppoents. Shavers had lyle down, yet couldnt put him away??? what does that tell u about his finishing power?? and he also LANDED A PUNCH FLUSH ON HOLMES JAW yet he couldnt put holmes away????

foreman was able to put lyle away. foreman was one of the most deadly finishers of all time once he had someone hurt. i think if foreman got holmes in major trouble, he would put holmes away. shavers never knocked out a really big name, and he couldnt finish a big name when he had them basically out. thats why I cannot rate shavers a top 5 puncher of all time for heavyweights. i rate him top 10.

[tiredoldngrey]

Foreman was not the hardest puncher of the three; he had a tendency to throw arm punches that worked greatly to his detriment. Those big arms get heavy, if you are getting hit by them or swinging them. Also he had many tkos- on cuts, or where the fight was stopped, his opponent standing. Shavers had similar endurance issues for similar reasons and he didn't exactly take the best punch. That happens to guys who committ to their own without thinking of the incoming; Shavers knocked guys out, though, count to 10 knocked out. I remember him being hurt by Ellis, who began unloading, following Shavers across the ring, and getting hit with an uppercut that produced a near perfect270 degree backflip. Marciano was the best conditioned and the best defensively of the three. He, too, knocked men out. In a 1953 issue of ring a writer claimed he punched harder than Dempsey; Jack, he said, scored 7,8,9 kds per fight while the Rock only needed one.

[Marciano Frazier]

I think Shavers hit harder than either of them with his single best shot, but they were both much better fighters than he was. Out of the three, I'd favor Foreman to beat either Marciano or Shavers, and I highly doubt Shavers would make it out of the first three rounds with either Marciano or Foreman.

In terms of two-handed power and a variety of power punches, though, Foreman and Marciano outclass Shavers, who actually had a good left hook when he used it, but who relied almost entirely on his right hand. Marciano was the best of the three in terms of consistent, continual power punching and output, while I think Foreman was the best in terms of possessing top one-punch power AND having it in both hands and all his punches, while Shavers had the single hardest punch of the three of them, but was overall both an inferior fighter and an inferior puncher.

[kingpawn]

Deciding who actually hit the hardest with a single punch is rather objective, don't you think? I mean, what's lacking is a true measurable to prove or disprove one's opinion over another's.

Personally, I don't doubt Shavers or Foreman could produce a harder single punch than Marciano, if there was a way to measure it in terms of, say, foot pounds. Marciano still may have been the strongest of the three pound for pound, but, in comparison to the other two, he also lacked about 30-40 pounds of ham behind his punches.

What I'm getting at is that there is a certain relativity about punching power. Marciano, at 185-190 pounds, hitting Walcott or Charles at roughly the same weight, produced more damage in my opinion than he would've decades later hitting a Foreman at 225-230. Just a matter of basic physics.

In other words, Marciano did NOT hit as hard as Foreman or Shavers in a measurable sense, but he DID hit as hard in relation to who was taking his punches.

[Jukejar]

Shavers did knock out some name opponents along the way--Norton, Young (TKO), and Ellis, among others--but is better known for knocking guys around but ultimately losing, such as against Holmes and Ali. Great puncher? Absolutely. Probably even a notch up on Big George on the pure power punch--but Foreman would take him out early. Marciano was small, but not much smaller than Quarry, and Quarry KO'd Shavers in one, so I have trouble picturing Rocky having too much trouble.

But the phrase "puncher's chance" aptly describes Earnie Shavers against anybody.

Huge punch + shaky chin = pure excitement. And he was a class act. I miss the guy.

[Hesketh Vampire]

...Quarry KO'd Shavers in one...

I have a copy of that fight somewhere, and although I haven't watched it in a long while I'm sure Don King was actually working Earnie's corner that night. I believe Earnie was one of King's earliest heavyweight hopes, and it's the only fight I can remember where King is NOT smiling after the fight.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

I like that analyzes Kingpawn. It makes sense. I wish someone or urself could ellaborate on that power punching theory because it is a key one.



ANd I would just like to add that young had only 7 fights when he was knocked out by shavers. WHEN HE FOUGHT SHAVERS AGAIN MORE EXPERIENCED HE FOUGHT SHAVERS TOO A DRAW. ALSO, ellis and norton were way past their primes when they fough shavers. ellis was spent and Norton was all finished after losing to holmes, that took everything out of norton. though i think shavers would have knocked norton out in nortons prime since he had trouble with big punchers. SO IT GOES TO SHOW SHAVERS NEVER KNOCKED ANY TOP CONTENDERS LET ALONE CHAMPIONS OUT FOR THE COUNT???? he couldnt put away lyle or holmes??? foreman was able to put away lyle. i just think if marciano or foreman were to land that flush punch on holmes, they might have put holmes down for the count or went after him and stopped him.

[Cojimar 1945]

The thing that seems so devastating about Marciano is his great conditioning and ability to throw so many punches at a high pace. Although he certainly could hit hard the sheer number of blows may have been his most impressive asset.

With regards to Holmes, you need to remember that Holmes had never been previously kayoed when he fought Shavers. This seems significant since it would mean Shavers was attempting what nobody else had done.

[Jukejar]

In Shavers' defense (a word not often used with his name), Howard Smith and Roy Williams were contenders when they were KO'd, and while they may not be well-remembered now, both were tough customers in their day. And it's easy to say Norton was finished after Holmes but until Shavers clocked him, Norton was still considered a top heavyweight and certainly not considered to be washed-up (and just for the record, Young had ten fights when he fought Shavers, not seven.) Not putting away Holmes is a testament of the heart and recuperative powers of Larry Holmes, not a slam on Shavers, although I agree that either Foreman or Marciano would likely have put a few more follow-up shots on Holmes to probably finish him off.

Shavers has certainly become something of a myth in heavyweight lore. Unlike Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, or other power punchers, Earnie was just too limited to be among the elite. But I think his ranking as a pure puncher is legitimate.

[kingpawn]

In Shavers' defense (a word not often used with his name), Howard Smith and Roy Williams were contenders when they were KO'd, and while they may not be well-remembered now, both were tough customers in their day. And it's easy to say Norton was finished after Holmes but until Shavers clocked him, Norton was still considered a top heavyweight and certainly not considered to be washed-up (and just for the record, Young had ten fights when he fought Shavers, not seven.) Not putting away Holmes is a testament of the heart and recuperative powers of Larry Holmes, not a slam on Shavers, although I agree that either Foreman or Marciano would likely have put a few more follow-up shots on Holmes to probably finish him off.

Shavers has certainly become something of a myth in heavyweight lore. Unlike Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, or other power punchers, Earnie was just too limited to be among the elite. But I think his ranking as a pure puncher is legitimate.

Good post. Perhaps the reason Shavers didn't manage to finish Holmes, too, was because that bomb he landed was more on the side of Larry's head than flush on the chin, or perhaps we'd be talking about how Larry got counted out. It also happened very late in the round. It's certainly a testament to Holmes that he even got up at all, but, as I recall, he only had to survive about another 10-15 seconds.

I do agree with Brockton, though, that Shavers' legend is somewhat tarnished by the fact that there were times when he failed to close the deal. Besides Holmes and Lyle, I recall another fight later in his career against a big South American HW named Bernardo Mercado. Shavers had Mercado down and in serious trouble at one point. I think he also had him cut pretty bad. But then Mercado pulled himself back together, Earnie ran out of gas and the fight was stopped in the 7th round with Mercado digging away and Shavers covering up on the ropes.

[KOJOE90]

In Shavers' defense (a word not often used with his name), Howard Smith and Roy Williams were contenders when they were KO'd, and while they may not be well-remembered now, both were tough customers in their day..

Very true Roy 'Tiger' Williams was one big, bad scary dude.

A much feared and avoided fighter.

[dan1030]

As alluded to in a couple of earlier posts it's hard to rate a guy like Shavers on pure power, since his punching power seems to have been far greater than 1) His punching placement and accuaracy, 2) His overall boxing skills, and 3) His Chin.
I remeber an interview Ali once did in which he said his arms, shoulders, etc. never hurt more after a fight than where he'd been hit by Shavers. If those kinds of punches could have been landed cleanly--and if he'd had the defense and/or chin to stand up to more return fire--then maybe he would have finished better, and maybe he wouldn't have had 14 losses. But the, he'd have been a different fight in that case, wouldn't he?

[Chuck1052]

There are people who weren't boxing fans, but they liked seeing
Earnie Shavers in action because of his awesome punching
power. It is very possible that Shavers was the hardest
hitting heavyweight in boxing history, especially with his
right hand. But make no mistake about it, Shavers also
had alot of power in his left hand. It was a left hook to
the jaw by Shavers that put Ken Norton on "queer street"
for the first time in their bout.

- Chuck Johnston