zab Judah..........back in the mix ?

[Quixall]

Is zab Judah back in the mix after winning the IBF title ?

Could zab feature against Bradley or khan and mix things up a bit ?

Things seemed to unravel for Judah between 2006 and 2007 when he lost consecutive big fights to baldomir, mayweather and then cotto, with things not improving in 2008 with his loss to clottey. So it seems as if Judah hasnt really been active in terms of quality fights for 4 years now. I think the defeat to cotto took a lot out of Judah physically and mentally and its interesting that he is now fighting at 140lbs.

I personally dont think that Judah would trouble Bradley, but he may be a test for khan and if khan is to move up to welterweight in the next 18 months or so, then in some ways a fight with Judah would give him more preparation than Bradley, because Judah has mixed with the very best at welterweight, despite coming undone in what can be said were close fights.

What do you guy's think ?

[Carbo]

Those fast, heavy hands are always going to make Zab a danger. He was never a welterweight -- it's just his speed and power allowed him some success there.

But his problem has never been the tools he brings to the ring, but his mind. He seems pathologically incapable of concentrating for an entire fight, and is prone to having the stuffing knocked out of him, and slipping into supine survival mode.

How many times have we seen him give quality fighters problems in the first half of a fight, only to completely screw it up?

Tszyu, Cotto, Mayweather, are three that spring to mind, but the big one, for me, was Baldomir, a limited, oafish plodder who was completely overmatched, and surely lost the first 5 or 6 rounds, but who was allowed back into the fight to the extent he managed to win. And Judah seemed completely oblivious to the idea he might be losing, and did nothing about it, when you got the impression that at any time he could have. I've even seen Judah look ordinary against bums he's fed in biding time fights.

The man is extremely frustrating.

But, in conclusion, he can, given the right frame of mind, be a danger to anyone; however, I suspect that anyone of a certain quality able to take him the distance, and put him under consistent pressure, will beat him.

[Quixall]

Good post carbo.........I agree

In a recent interview zab said that for some of his big fights he only trained 50 per cent, which could be an excuse, but if true says something of his mentality. As you say, he was winning all of those big fights for the first 6 rounds and then nose dived. Mayweather was struggling to work him out and tzsyu was getting turned over.

I think Judah is a little too old and past his prime to really trouble the top at 140lbs, but as I said before, it would be an excellent fight for khan.

[Bomber 1]

I rate Judah, he has not done what he fully could have given his tools but let's have it right he's done very well, been undisputed welterweight champion and also won a few titles at light welter, I saw improvements in his last fight and I think the link up with sweet pea will be a good move for him. I see him Definitly back in the mix, he'd Definitly be a danger yo Amir if they meet..

[keithmoonhangover]

I'm not sure how far Judah will go, but it's great to have so many names and good fighter in the mix in and around light welter.

Bradley
Khan
Alexander
Judah
Maidana
Morales

and potentially they could fight

Pacquiao
Mayweather
Mosely

or even

Hatton
De la Hoya.

[Bomber 1]

I hope the bottom 2 names stay away although DLH does create massive intrest! Imagine Cotto Vs DLH!! It would be huge in the US or DLH Vs Tito? The last hurrah for both men?? Go out in a high??

[kamicazze]

I think he can be a force. look at the guys he has mixed with in comparison to khan and bradley. Southpaw with electric speed and a devestating uppercut is best avoided imo. If hatton or de la hoya have to come back then they need to avoid fighters in their prime. In de la hoya's case fight mosley, or trinidad for revenge or someone like robert steigletz to get a title at another weight. Hatton on the other hand should only fight lighter guys such as morales, barrera or marquez. Not for the reason that they are the lighter punchers, but theyre the only fights worth a damn where it isnt a prime young fighter in there with him

[kamicazze]

I do not want to see Hatton on his back again, or de la hoya humiliated. They Gave too much to the sport for that but id like to see them go out with a win and with dignity

[D-MAC]

In regards to Khan and Bradley, then you couldn't see Judah as a 12 round threat (ie: he's not gonna win on points). But he's definitely a 4-6 round threat at the start, against Khan especially.

[D-MAC]

I rate Judah, he has not done what he fully could have given his tools but let's have it right he's done very well, been undisputed welterweight champion and also won a few titles at light welter, I saw improvements in his last fight and I think the link up with sweet pea will be a good move for him. I see him Definitly back in the mix, he'd Definitly be a danger yo Amir if they meet..

Lets put the undisputed WW champion-thing in perspective.

It was against Cory Spinks, who he'd previously lost to.

Cory is a good scalp, but nothing special, irrespective of the titles on the line. The big plus point was that it was a stoppage victory, and Cory didn't get stopped much back in his prime.

[DIRT SUGAR]

Think he'd have given Khan alot more trouble than McCloskey that's for sure. He seems to be thriving under Pernell Whitaker's tutelage and seems to have grown up and is making one last real go of it.

[Final round]

That hook in his last fight was almost effortless but carrying serious power, impressive

[jtourettes]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Khan fight him next. I feel the same as most posters in here in that he's a real handful for 6 rounds.

Disagree on the KT fight being mentioned though. Doing ok in one round of a two round fight doesn't mean shit.

[charlieb]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Khan fight him next. I feel the same as most posters in here in that he's a real handful for 6 rounds.

Disagree on the KT fight being mentioned though. Doing ok in one round of a two round fight doesn't mean shit.

It does when Tszyu was being clobbered in that first round, so much so that it looked as though it gave Judah a false sense of security, coming out for that second round appearing quite sloppy compared to the fear feulled sharpness he had in the first. Looked as though he'd already decided it was going to be an easy night's work.

I think a rematch would've been very interesting, but he shot himself in the foot with all of the crap he gave Tszyu about not getting a rematch.

[Quixall]

Maybe judah is similar in stamina to Taylor, where he starts dropping off in the second half of the fight. I think its good to have him back at the top with a title, which hopefully means he can gain one or two high calibre fights, but knowing zab, he will perhaps defend against a nobody, get sloppy and lose !!!!

One thing that hasnt really Bern mentioned is the fact that zab is now at 140lbs and those big fights all happenned at 147lbs. Maybe it was a case that come fight night zab was at a significant disadvantage to the others in terms of the weight gained since the weigh in, but I'm not sure if zab is a natural 147lbs having to be disciplined to get down to 140lbs or he is a natural 140lbs fighter. I know in interviews he has said that he is a natural 140lbs fighter and in that case its obvious that he fought at 147lbs to get the names and money !!!!

Still a dangerous fighter in my opinion

[keithmoonhangover]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Khan fight him next. I feel the same as most posters in here in that he's a real handful for 6 rounds.

Disagree on the KT fight being mentioned though. Doing ok in one round of a two round fight doesn't mean shit.

It does when Tszyu was being clobbered in that first round, so much so that it looked as though it gave Judah a false sense of security, coming out for that second round appearing quite sloppy compared to the fear feulled sharpness he had in the first. Looked as though he'd already decided it was going to be an easy night's work.

I think a rematch would've been very interesting, but he shot himself in the foot with all of the crap he gave Tszyu about not getting a rematch.

I just watched Tszyu-Judah again the other night. All Kostya did until the stoppage, was look for an opening to throw the right had. As soon as he did, Zab went down. Kostya knew what he was doing the whole time. He was just waiting for the right moment.

[mrbassie]

It is rather incredible his ability to screw up fights he could win. Especially when he gets such incredible advice in the corner as "you gotta go huhuhuhuhrarararaarbububububuahahahaharurururururuh" and the like.

[charlieb]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Khan fight him next. I feel the same as most posters in here in that he's a real handful for 6 rounds.

Disagree on the KT fight being mentioned though. Doing ok in one round of a two round fight doesn't mean shit.

It does when Tszyu was being clobbered in that first round, so much so that it looked as though it gave Judah a false sense of security, coming out for that second round appearing quite sloppy compared to the fear feulled sharpness he had in the first. Looked as though he'd already decided it was going to be an easy night's work.

I think a rematch would've been very interesting, but he shot himself in the foot with all of the crap he gave Tszyu about not getting a rematch.

I just watched Tszyu-Judah again the other night. All Kostya did until the stoppage, was look for an opening to throw the right had. As soon as he did, Zab went down. Kostya knew what he was doing the whole time. He was just waiting for the right moment.

Tszyu did what Tszyu always did, and he was getting caught with bombs for his troubles, he was staggered back in to the ropes in the first.

He didn't catch Judah with anything that had an impact until he caught him napping in the second. I'll admit you could see it coming as Tsyzu got closer in that round, but it wasn't as straightforward as Tszyu working an opening from the off, finding it - fight over. It was more of a shoot-out and Judah wasn't as sharp in the second as he was in the first.

I thought it at the time and I think it still, a rematch might not've been a repeat. That's all overshadowed by the manner of the finish.

[keithmoonhangover]

It does when Tszyu was being clobbered in that first round, so much so that it looked as though it gave Judah a false sense of security, coming out for that second round appearing quite sloppy compared to the fear feulled sharpness he had in the first. Looked as though he'd already decided it was going to be an easy night's work.

I think a rematch would've been very interesting, but he shot himself in the foot with all of the crap he gave Tszyu about not getting a rematch.

I just watched Tszyu-Judah again the other night. All Kostya did until the stoppage, was look for an opening to throw the right had. As soon as he did, Zab went down. Kostya knew what he was doing the whole time. He was just waiting for the right moment.

Tszyu did what Tszyu always did, and he was getting caught with bombs for his troubles, he was staggered back in to the ropes in the first.

He didn't catch Judah with anything that had an impact until he caught him napping in the second. I'll admit you could see it coming as Tsyzu got closer in that round, but it wasn't as straightforward as Tszyu working an opening from the off, finding it - fight over. It was more of a shoot-out and Judah wasn't as sharp in the second as he was in the first.

KOSTYA barely throws a right in the first. Make no mistake, Kostya was looking for that shot,

I thought it at the time and I think it still, a rematch might not've been a repeat. That's all overshadowed by the manner of the finish.

[jtourettes]

Maybe judah is similar in stamina to Taylor, where he starts dropping off in the second half of the fight. I think its good to have him back at the top with a title, which hopefully means he can gain one or two high calibre fights, but knowing zab, he will perhaps defend against a nobody, get sloppy and lose !!!!

One thing that hasnt really Bern mentioned is the fact that zab is now at 140lbs and those big fights all happenned at 147lbs. Maybe it was a case that come fight night zab was at a significant disadvantage to the others in terms of the weight gained since the weigh in, but I'm not sure if zab is a natural 147lbs having to be disciplined to get down to 140lbs or he is a natural 140lbs fighter. I know in interviews he has said that he is a natural 140lbs fighter and in that case its obvious that he fought at 147lbs to get the names and money !!!!

Still a dangerous fighter in my opinion

KT fight was at 140 but I do think he was small compared to some of the other fighters in 147 division.

[Carbo]

It does when Tszyu was being clobbered in that first round, so much so that it looked as though it gave Judah a false sense of security, coming out for that second round appearing quite sloppy compared to the fear feulled sharpness he had in the first. Looked as though he'd already decided it was going to be an easy night's work.

I think a rematch would've been very interesting, but he shot himself in the foot with all of the crap he gave Tszyu about not getting a rematch.

I just watched Tszyu-Judah again the other night. All Kostya did until the stoppage, was look for an opening to throw the right had. As soon as he did, Zab went down. Kostya knew what he was doing the whole time. He was just waiting for the right moment.

Tszyu did what Tszyu always did, and he was getting caught with bombs for his troubles, he was staggered back in to the ropes in the first.

He didn't catch Judah with anything that had an impact until he caught him napping in the second. I'll admit you could see it coming as Tsyzu got closer in that round, but it wasn't as straightforward as Tszyu working an opening from the off, finding it - fight over. It was more of a shoot-out and Judah wasn't as sharp in the second as he was in the first.

I thought it at the time and I think it still, a rematch might not've been a repeat. That's all overshadowed by the manner of the finish.

I think that Tszyu would have knocked him out again in a rematch. Tszyu just 'got' how to fight against southpaw cuties. You saw it against Judah, and against Mitchell. He just knew how to get to them. You also forget what an awesome finisher Tszyu was. He was extraordinarily powerful, had technically correct, very accurate punches, underrated speed, and was clinical. I remember in Mitchell II, when he had him hurt against the ropes, he backed off and picked out two withering punches to the body, softening him up for the kill, when many fighters would have gone all out wild. There are two types of great finishers -- the Dela Hoya type who swarms, and the clinical type, like Hamed, who picked guys apart with monster shots. And Tszyu was the latter.

On the fight itself, and how it pertains to our discussion on Judah's frailties, it was perhaps harsh of me to chalk this up as another example of him losing concentration after looking sharp, as Tszyu made some excellent and very smart adjustments and it was very early in the fight; however, you still notice in the fight that in the first two minutes of the round, Judah was markedly more relaxed about defence, with lower hands, he was dancing around more, crossing his feet in little showy shuffles on a couple of occasions, and he was less crisp and attentive with his work, as he seemed content just to look for the bombs and let Tszyu get off first.

It was almost like you could see him thinking "heh-heh, this guy is mine whenever I decide to land."

Indeed, the KO itself was due as much as anything to carelessness. Where were his hands when that punch landed, I ask? It wasn't a counter shot, yet Judah's hands were both low. Tszyu, on about three occasions within a minute before the KO shot, including once about two seconds before, had thrown missile rights that Judah had just avoided. And yet with all his cockiness and arrogance, he thought he could rely on head movement. Even Mayweather doesn't do that, as he usually has one hand high and his chin behind the other shoulder. No, Judah was definitely at fault.

And, watching the aftermath, just a few minutes ago, reminded me of what a punk the guy is. I mean the stoppage was kind of controversial, because he would've had 45 seconds in the corner to recover (although my own view is that if Nady had just continued counting, he would've got to ten before Judah had regained his footing), but even so, the way he acted was a disgrace.

[alexpaterson]

He looked good in spurts against Mabuza, overall I had Mabuza up I thought he was letting himself be outworked by the clumsy Mabuza but finished excellently and showed some great skills, defensively and offensively. At the top of the division I think Bradley's workrate would be far too much for Judah, who might get the early rounds but would soon allow himself to be outhustled by the stronger, fitter Bradley. I think early he would give Khan hell matching his hand speed but doing it offensively and really putting 'the pressure on Khan landing big shots, I think his right uppercut could get the job done early, if he can't put Khan away within 4 I then see Amir getting on the toes and working behind the jab when Judah's work deteriorates as the rounds go by. Judah early or Khan late IMO. I think Zab would outclass Maidana landing his combinations and getting out not letting Maidana get set to offload.