The Paper champion era

[kamicazze]

Back in 2001 - 2006 there was an influx of paper titles on these shores where a lot of good fighters had these titles rather than legit world titles. These being WBF, IBO, wbu among others. We saw 2 WBU champions go to the next level in Enzo Maccarinelli and Ricky Hatton.
DIscussion is how far could James Hare, Michael Jennings, Jawaid Khaliq, Garry Lockett, Steve Roberts, Jason Cook, Scott dann and any others you can think of gone?
Also what in your minds are the pro's and con's of these paper titles?

[stujones]

Back in 2001 - 2006 there was an influx of paper titles on these shores where a lot of good fighters had these titles rather than legit world titles. These being WBF, IBO, wbu among others. We saw 2 WBU champions go to the next level in Enzo Maccarinelli and Ricky Hatton.
DIscussion is how far could James Hare, Michael Jennings, Jawaid Khaliq, Garry Lockett, Steve Roberts, Jason Cook, Scott dann and any others you can think of gone?
Also what in your minds are the pro's and con's of these paper titles?

I think all could have won EBU titles had they gone that route (Jason was an EBU champion), but no further. Jennings and Lockett got beaten up at the higher level, although I don't think either had ideal preperations for these fights - inactive against the right type of opponent.

[kamicazze]

Back in 2001 - 2006 there was an influx of paper titles on these shores where a lot of good fighters had these titles rather than legit world titles. These being WBF, IBO, wbu among others. We saw 2 WBU champions go to the next level in Enzo Maccarinelli and Ricky Hatton.
DIscussion is how far could James Hare, Michael Jennings, Jawaid Khaliq, Garry Lockett, Steve Roberts, Jason Cook, Scott dann and any others you can think of gone?
Also what in your minds are the pro's and con's of these paper titles?

I think all could have won EBU titles had they gone that route (Jason was an EBU champion), but no further. Jennings and Lockett got beaten up at the higher level, although I don't think either had ideal preperations for these fights - inactive against the right type of opponent.

I would agree with you wholeheartedly there. Jennings went in with Cotto who was coming off a loss so had a point to prove. Had he gone in with Senchenko or an Yuri Nushnenko then im sure he would have been victorious. Likewise with Lockett, had he faced Sturm rather than a in his prime pavlik he may have landed a bomb and got the title.

[WestEndRiot]

The only pro as far as these titles are concerned is that the promoters can call it a world title and get more money from the tv companies, therefore more money for the boxers. This however leads to the biggest con which is the viewing public being ripped off

[kamicazze]

The only world title with real prestige is the ring title. If i was to turn pro id find these so called paper titles great as they help you command a minimum fee and they'll look absolutely wonderful on the mantlepiece :). In years to come i think the IBO will become a recognized organisation by fans as many top champs have held that belt and theyre the only group with a legit ranking system

[tear up]

i boxed frankie demilo for wbf and gave it up within 6 months of winning for the british title as its the belt that everyone craves and at the time sky were showin the but its a boxers dream that lonsdale belt

[kamicazze]

yeah the ionsdale belt is the nicest one :). But i bet the wbf sits nicely in your living room michael?

[Lenny]

The secret could have been unified champ at all the weights

The main problem in this era wasn't that these belts stopped the guys winning world titles - they were all good domestic/European level fighters - but it gave them an excuse not to fight each other. The good old light middleweight seen of the early 2000s had a belt for everyone.

[orbtastic]

SKY were as much to blame as the promoters, they would refuse to have a headliner without a belt on the line.

[kamicazze]

Well yeah of course. Sky are the same nowadays but the titles nowadays are more legit. I hear the WBU champion commands a minimum 25,000 fee for each defence. Hence why the talents holding this belt may have been inactive

[tear up]

yeah the ionsdale belt is the nicest one :). But i bet the wbf sits nicely in your living room michael?

lovely belt pal i use to tel people the diamonds were real was the best dancer in the night club with it on when i won it ha ha ha ah only jokin ha

[Old bones Ian]

Who owns these type of bodies?

As i was looking at the World Boxing Board, they are one of the worst ones for the holders of their belts. The last heavyweight champion was Sheldon Hinton (who i heard myself ask), and they have not held any sort of championship fight since 2009, but then they suddenly have Cotto v Mayorga as their fight for the light-middle belt.

Now surely Cotto and Mayorga wouldn't of paid a sanctioning fee for that belt, would they?

[larry cake]

yeah the ionsdale belt is the nicest one :). But i bet the wbf sits nicely in your living room michael?

lovely belt pal i use to tel people the diamonds were real was the best dancer in the night club with it on when i won it ha ha ha ah only jokin ha

remember you walking on the vic with the belt at half time the day after you won it, 5,000 people thought you were a proper champ and probaly didnt do you any harm with the birds in the nightclub.

[tear up]

yeah the ionsdale belt is the nicest one :). But i bet the wbf sits nicely in your living room michael?

lovely belt pal i use to tel people the diamonds were real was the best dancer in the night club with it on when i won it ha ha ha ah only jokin ha

remember you walking on the vic with the belt at half time the day after you won it, 5,000 people thought you were a proper champ and probaly didnt do you any harm with the birds in the nightclub.

oh yes didnt harm but didnt need the belts good lookin guy i am saved the best till last my wife ha

[kamicazze]

Any title is good for the ladies isnt it. Hell get me a british masters title shot, im sure thatl get me some

[tear up]

Any title is good for the ladies isnt it. Hell get me a british masters title shot, im sure thatl get me some

who you mate and any champion good makes thing s worth while when i won wbf it was a world title in our town mate and prob still is i say it wasnt but people still say i was

[kamicazze]

Im an amateur mate :). yeah i know an ibo world champ and he is treated like a legend here. casual fans dont know the difference

[crusader]

Honestly, I think most of the fighters listed in the original post would have lost to even the weak major title holders of today's era.

[kamicazze]

In total honesty i believe that Garry lockett could beat that sebastien zbik fella or the wba regular champ gennady. I also believe that Khaliq and Jennings would have got the better of Jan Zaveck or Soulemayne M'baye who are the current welterweight champs.

[oliverfennell]

i boxed frankie demilo for wbf and gave it up within 6 months of winning for the british title as its the belt that everyone craves and at the time sky were showin the but its a boxers dream that lonsdale belt

Same as Matt Skelton, he had to choose between the WBU and the British, and he chose the British.

[oliverfennell]

The secret could have been unified champ at all the weights.

The fact he was whipped twice by Sergio Martinez, who hadn't yet hit his prime, shows that he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near doing that.

[palooka]

Im an amateur mate :). yeah i know an ibo world champ and he is treated like a legend here. casual fans dont know the difference

Living clean, getting good and putting the work in and then getting a belt is an achievement pal. At the top world level there are distinctions; (for me) The WBC then WBA then IBF then WBO then IBO etc but each belt has had fantastic boxers who were proud to wear the belt. It's no fraud to be an IBO champion, some managers and promoters do not have the clout to pull the strings for the top belts.

[oliverfennell]

Im an amateur mate :). yeah i know an ibo world champ and he is treated like a legend here. casual fans dont know the difference

Living clean, getting good and putting the work in and then getting a belt is an achievement pal. At the top world level there are distinctions; (for me) The WBC then WBA then IBF then WBO then IBO etc but each belt has had fantastic boxers who were proud to wear the belt. It's no fraud to be an IBO champion, some managers and promoters do not have the clout to pull the strings for the top belts.

Yes, while the lesser belts do get stick - and rightly so in the grand scheme of things, I suppose - they are at least an indicator that the boxer is good enough to compete in international 12-round class.

[kamicazze]

True also for a fighter they will live the rest of their lives as a king with casual fans treating them as a proper world champ. I think the IBO gets a lot of unfair flak. The other titles meanwhile are a bit of a dud in boxing circles but outside boxing world they still loog good and as you say they show you are 12 round international class. Good indication of whether you can go further

[kamicazze]

Michael, did the wbf command a minimum fee at all?