Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Cholo]

"Boxeo" . . .

Is a documentary film on the great Latino boxers of yesterday and today.
It is produced by an Academy Award winning film maker, Alan Swyer, and is expected to air on HBO later this year.
Alan traveled to Mexico, Puerto Rico, and other Latin countries in making this film.
Alan called me a few days ago to tell me the film has been edited and a 12 minute promo video has been produced.
He also told me he is sending me a link, that I can post here, that will play the film's promo.
Some of those interviewed in the film are Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosely, Ruben Olivares, Booby Chacon, Frankie Duarte, Victor Ortiz, Bob Arum, Jimmy Lennon Jr., Don Chargin, Don Fraser, Sergio Martinez, Ruben Castillo, Roberto Duran, Sergio Martinez, Saul Alvarez, Frank Baltazar Sr. and myself, to name a few.

Alan and I will bring the film to an upcoming GSBA meeting Hollywood to preview it in it's entirety.

Rick, Great news, l'm looking forward to this one....

[CNorkusJr]

Charlie Norkus . . .

When I think of the great fighters he boxed, and when he fought them, that great era when New York was the boxing capitol of the world.
I'm grateful that Charkie Jr. is a part of this thread. Thanks for your kindness in sharing your father's history, which is a great part of the history of boxing.

Thank You Rick and Cholo, Boxing is something we all have in common here.
No matter if you were a World Champ. tough competetor or just a fan of boxing, this forum is the place where we can all meet and relive great moments that occurred in our lives, and to discuss passionately the future of the sport and its combatents of today.
I get a great pleasure of sharing the life of my father as it has to been Blessed to be his son.
There is no doubt he is smiling above.
I am glad all here enjoy his pictures and the retelling of events as told to me or remember first hand.

Together with The Baltalzar's, De La O's, Rick Farris, Tom, Rob, and everybody who contributes ( I do not slight no one by no mention as there are many contributors here,many of our friends from Europe too !!) this continues to be the #1 site to go to for todays boxing chat. And food emporium I might add !

All the Best to The Best.
CN Jr

[Rick Farris]

This is why . . .

"It amazes me that he is the same guy that walked in the first day. His work ethic is exactly the same. Guys get comfortable; guys get lazy after winning a world title. Guys get cocky. He hasn't. He trains his ass off everyday. He has many distractions outside the ring, a lot of chaos, lots of drama, but he can seperate that. Whatever else is going on in his life, he leaves it outside."

-Freddie Roach on Manny Pacquiao.

[Rick Farris]

When Manny came to America . . .

The GenSen boys sold doughnuts and worked construction (once Manny Pacquiao didn't eat for four days because his employer didn't pay him).
If one member of the group had money, rice was purchased for the group. Manny was so good hearted he would often forgo his share so someone else could have more.
When other boxers would leave the gym as a group to get a bite, Pacquiao would hang back, never wanting to be a charity case.
In a letter to his mother, he told her not to worry: "Life is difficult here. There are times when I eat rice only once a day".

[Rick Farris]

Hungry Fighters . . .

Hunger has always motivated great fighters.
Once that aren't hungry anymore, their thoughts change and they lose something, they lose the spark.
Pacquiao keeps his flames raging in a way that is unique only to himself.
Manny is defying the greats who couldn't stay focused, the Duran's, Dempsey's, Tyson's, Olivares's, the Ramos', etc. These greats all lost interest.

So who is truly great?
A champ who takes care of himself? One with a stronger nature? Discipline?
In many ways, this guy is one of the best ever. His charactor is second to none.
Just my opinion, of course.

[Rick Farris]

This is why . . .

"It amazes me that he is the same guy that walked in the first day. His work ethic is exactly the same. Guys get comfortable; guys get lazy after winning a world title. Guys get cocky. He hasn't. He trains his ass off everyday. He has many distractions outside the ring, a lot of chaos, lots of drama, but he can seperate that. Whatever else is going on in his life, he leaves it outside."

-Freddie Roach on Manny Pacquiao.

Channeling the spirit of Mel Epstein ( ) on Manny Pac . . .

Mel replied:
"That kid is a real fighter, but his hair is a too long. Now Speedy Dado, there was a great Filippino, he had a fighter's haircut. Those F-ing Beatles ruined the country!"

[Chuck1052]

In his prime years, Shane Mosley would have been the favorite over Manny Pacquiao, a naturally smaller fighter by a huge margin. But based on his last two bouts, Mosley is a shell of his former self, which means he has very little chance at best against Pacquiao.

- Chuck Johnston

[Rick Farris]

In his prime years, Shane Mosley would have been the favorite over Manny Pacquiao, a naturally smaller fighter by a huge margin. But based on his last two bouts, Mosley is a shell of his former self, which means he has very little chance at best against Pacquiao.

- Chuck Johnston

I don't believe that Shane would have been favored to beat today's Manny Pacquiao at any point in his career.
What makes Shane the favorite? Size might help Shane in the odds, but not in the result.
Pac of today vs. Shane at any point in his career? I pick Pacquiao to win and believe he would be a close favorite anytime.
I agree about Shane being a shell of his former self, but I credit his great skills and heart, he's always dangerous.

[Rick Farris]

In the words of Roberto Duran . . .

At an early 80's press dinner, Marvin Hagler spotted Roberto Duran.
Hagler thought Duran was a great champ and wanted to meet him.
When introduced to to Duran, Hagler expresses he's honored.
Duran looks Hagler up & down, turns to an associate and says, "I want to fight him, look how small he is."
Duran turned and walked away. Hagler was angry, and the fight was made.

[Rick Farris]

And speaking of something Duran might say, "No mas!"

[CNorkusJr]

This is why . . .

"It amazes me that he is the same guy that walked in the first day. His work ethic is exactly the same. Guys get comfortable; guys get lazy after winning a world title. Guys get cocky. He hasn't. He trains his ass off everyday. He has many distractions outside the ring, a lot of chaos, lots of drama, but he can seperate that. Whatever else is going on in his life, he leaves it outside."

-Freddie Roach on Manny Pacquiao.

Channeling the spirit of Mel Epstein ( ) on Manny Pac . . .

Mel replied:
"That kid is a real fighter, but his hair is a too long. Now Speedy Dado, there was a great Filippino, he had a fighter's haircut. Those F-ing Beatles ruined the country!"

[Cholo]

In the words of Roberto Duran . . .

At an early 80's press dinner, Marvin Hagler spotted Roberto Duran.
Hagler thought Duran was a great champ and wanted to meet him.
When introduced to to Duran, Hagler expresses he's honored.
Duran looks Hagler up & down, turns to an associate and says, "I want to fight him, look how small he is."
Duran turned and walked away. Hagler was angry, and the fight was made.

Rick, The Hagler fight proved what a Great fighter Duran was, people think of Duran just as a come forward slugger, infact he was a superb ring technician who could box. Smart fighter "El Cholo" he was winning the Hagler fight after 12 rounds on two of the scorecards, why i'm i telling you this rick, you sparred with the great man....

[Cholo]

Rick, Duran combined skill and intensity, the Duran that beat Palomino and Leonard could have beaten anybody in any era....

[Rick Farris]

Sergio Martinez . . .

He's really too big for a Manny Pacquiao, at least when it comes to rules that constitute a fair boxing match.
I think a fight like that would take a lot out of the naturally smaller Pac Man.
However, Manny Pac will defeat Martinez, band likely make him quit.
I don't trust the heart of Sergio Martinez, and I know he will take a lot more punishment than he is capable of dishing out.
Forget his hanging that big one on Paul Williams, Manny is not such an easy target.
Martinez isn't all that much.
Don't expect the Argentine boxer to stand around and take the whipping Margo took from Pac. He'll quit.
Target practice for the greatest boxer since Roberto Duran.

[Cholo]

Sergio Martinez . . .

He's really too big for a Manny Pacquiao, at least when it comes to rules that constitute a fair boxing match.
I think a fight like that would take a lot out of the naturally smaller Pac Man.
However, Manny Pac will defeat Martinez, band likely make him quit.
I don't trust the heart of Sergio Martinez, and I know he will take a lot more punishment than he is capable of dishing out.
Forget his hanging that big one on Paul Williams, Manny is not such an easy target.
Martinez isn't all that much.
Don't expect the Argentine boxer to stand around and take the whipping Margo took from Pac. He'll quit.
Target practice for the greatest boxer since Roberto Duran.

Rick, I agree....

[Rick Farris]

In the words of Roberto Duran . . .

At an early 80's press dinner, Marvin Hagler spotted Roberto Duran.
Hagler thought Duran was a great champ and wanted to meet him.
When introduced to to Duran, Hagler expresses he's honored.
Duran looks Hagler up & down, turns to an associate and says, "I want to fight him, look how small he is."
Duran turned and walked away. Hagler was angry, and the fight was made.

Rick, The Hagler fight proved what a Great fighter Duran was, people think of Duran just as a come forward slugger, infact he was a superb ring technician who could box. Smart fighter "El Cholo" he was winning the Hagler fight after 12 rounds on two of the scorecards, why i'm i telling you this rick, you sparred with the great man....

Paul, I had the fight even after 14 rounds. Keep in mind Roberto had already been fighting professional for more than 15 years when he fought Hagler.
A few years later, at 38, Duran whipped 3-to-1 favorite Iran Barkley and took the IBF Middleweight title. A few months earlier, Barkley had won the title by KOing Tommy Hearns. Duran floored Barkley, and took the middleweight title 17 years after whipping Buchanan for the lightweight title. The bad thing about Duran he would force himself into higher weight classes by over eating. Had he kept his weight down, even considerably less than the guys he was facing (as Pac does) I believe Duran would have been even greater. I believe that a "faster, lighter" Duran would have have clearly whipped Marvin Hagler. I don't believe we saw the best of Duran, due to his poor training habits and lack of discipline. Duran rarely was in optimum shape, aside from maybe the first Leonard fight. Men like Duran and Pacquiao are responsible for the saying, "It ain't the size of the man in the fight, but the fight in the man." Hagler was a great fighter, Duran was better. Aside from a Roberto Duran, nobody in "recent history" compares with Manny Pacquiao. People can disagree, but if so, name one?

[Rick Farris]

Rick, Duran combined skill and intensity, the Duran that beat Palomino and Leonard could have beaten anybody in any era....

Paul, in my lifetime I cannot think of anybody as good as Roberto Duran. Maybe before I was born there was somebody greater (?) but if so, I don't know who?
I've seen some great fighter's up close, including Duran, Arguello, Olivares, etc. I think Pac whips them all, and maybe Duran if he's not at his very best. My opinion.

[Rick Farris]

What Next? And what about Martinez since Mayweather continues to avoid Manny?

Since Mayweather will not risk the beating he'd likely take in a match with Pacquiao, who next after Shane?
Marquez would be an easy "tune-up" against a guy his own size, probably a quick one. However, no challenge.
I think he deserves at least one fight that is fair with regard to natural size, and this would be it. An easy workout, at best.
Another easy, quick fight would be Victor Ortiz. Since Vic just won a world title, it would add a belt to Pac's collection. However, no challenge.
A not so easy fight, and one that would take a heavy toll on his body would be middleweight champ, Sergio Martinez.
Martinez is very typical of past Argentine champs. They are strong, wild and a little crazy in their style.
Like his Argentine countryman before him, he can be a menacing challenge, and like all before him (save Carlos Monzon) will fall to a greater fighter.
Martinez is made to order for an agrssive sharp-shooter like Manny Pac. Pac's punches will bust him up, before taking him out.
The size advantage will result in Martinez taking an extra dose of battering, as he plods forward in the beginning, his looping punches missing by wide margins.
After three rounds, his face will look like he stuck it in a beehive. After six rounds his own mother will not recognize him.
He will hit the deck somewhere at the mid point of the fight. He will not take a forward step from that moment on.
The referee will stop the contest before the tenth round. However, having to deal with all that weight will take a toll. The Filippino will tame the Argentine fighter. Just as Dempsey tamed Firpo when all was said and done.
Once the bully factor is overcome, Argentine boxers unravel. In this weak era, Sergio Martinez is special, but against an all-time great who isn't afraid to "step up", not so special. My opinion.

[Cholo]

Rick, Duran combined skill and intensity, the Duran that beat Palomino and Leonard could have beaten anybody in any era....

Paul, in my lifetime I cannot think of anybody as good as Roberto Duran. Maybe before I was born there was somebody greater (?) but if so, I don't know who?
I've seen some great fighter's up close, including Duran, Arguello, Olivares, etc. I think Pac whips them all, and maybe Duran if he's not at his very best. My opinion.

Rick, I agree again, Duran would have had to be in tremendous shape for Manny if they'd met. I've watched the Barkley fight many times, Duran took Barkley to school, Roberto had a way of blocking punches on the inside, a skill i don't see in fighter's today. Sugar Ray Leonard was asked who was the hardest puncher he ever met, Roberto Duran was his reply.
Also Rick i'll never forget seeing Duran knocking out Monroe Brooks with a beauty of a left-hook to the body back 1978 at New Yorks M.S.G., didn't Brooks fight often in Los Angeles?....

[Rick Farris]

Rick, Duran combined skill and intensity, the Duran that beat Palomino and Leonard could have beaten anybody in any era....

Paul, in my lifetime I cannot think of anybody as good as Roberto Duran. Maybe before I was born there was somebody greater (?) but if so, I don't know who?
I've seen some great fighter's up close, including Duran, Arguello, Olivares, etc. I think Pac whips them all, and maybe Duran if he's not at his very best. My opinion.

Rick, I agree again, Duran would have had to be in tremendous shape for Manny if they'd met. I've watched the Barkley fight many times, Duran took Barkley to school, Roberto had a way of blocking punches on the inside, a skill i don't see in fighter's today. Sugar Ray Leonard was asked who was the hardest puncher he ever met, Roberto Duran was his reply.
Also Rick i'll never forget seeing Duran knocking out Monroe Brooks with a beauty of a left-hook to the body back 1978 at New Yorks M.S.G., didn't Brooks fight often in Los Angeles?....

Paul, Brooks was an L.A. fighter and a good one. Against Duran, he faced one of the best ever, no contest.
Brooks was a cagey boxer and a big hitter. I saw Brooks fight Bruce Curry at the Olympic. I was introduced to Monroe Brooks the week before, by a mutual friend.
I'd been following Brooks' career and was rooting for him to beat Curry, but Bruce scored a stunning one punch KO that night.

[Cholo]

Rick, I thought Brooks was a L.A. fighter, i'm going to watch Duran/Barkley again, the little master Duran....

[Panzerfaust]

Marquez would be an easy "tune-up" against a guy his own size, probably a quick one. However, no challenge.
I think he deserves at least one fight that is fair with regard to natural size, and this would be it. An easy workout, at best.
.

I would like to see this fight, if not for anything else i would like to see Marquez get that huge payday. then maybe call it quits .

[Panzerfaust]

Manny is a great fighter, a true throwback with a great trainer that really cares for his fighter like a son i believe.
I doubt we will see a team like that in any near future.
Who will take over as boxings nr 1 guy after Manny? I think it will be another pinoy fighter in Nonito Donaire who i got the feeling that is headed for greatnes. Will he equal Mannys acomplishments? I doubt it,but he is the next best thing imo.

[Rick Farris]

Manny is a great fighter, a true throwback with a great trainer that really cares for his fighter like a son i believe.
I doubt we will see a team like that in any near future.
Who will take over as boxings nr 1 guy after Manny? I think it will be another pinoy fighter in Nonito Donaire who i got the feeling that is headed for greatnes. Will he equal Mannys acomplishments? I doubt it,but he is the next best thing imo.

I also like Donaire. I agree, he is the next best thing to Manny.

[Rick Farris]

Marquez would be an easy "tune-up" against a guy his own size, probably a quick one. However, no challenge.
I think he deserves at least one fight that is fair with regard to natural size, and this would be it. An easy workout, at best.
.

I would like to see this fight, if not for anything else i would like to see Marquez get that huge payday. then maybe call it quits .

Maybe it will happen, Remy. Not much else out there at the moment.