Kell Brook next fight

[Jon Saxon]

I'd love to tell you the King fighter, but you're an expert on boxing and you've already said we know nothing about boxing.
He wasn't white, troll.

PS "any decent trainer" -you've still not named a British one.

Sorry you dont get my humour, i wil explain for you,
what i meant was that great white hw's are like gold dust and i was joking that King would actually find one and send it over to britain..I mean that would be absurd wouldnt it?
I'm thinking you dont actually know the king fighter as there wasnt one that i can recall, however if you want to show us all youyr wisdom then please do unless of course he came to britain to just spar, you could use that as your get out clause)
great british trainer, I think Enzo is great, i think George Francis (god rest his soul) was fantastic, hmm I think Adam Booth pretty forward thinking, do you want any more?
Oh and I must give a mention to the work done with Paul Ingle (was it steve Pollard i think so, yes it was) I mean how good was his head movement, one of the best i have ever seen.
However none of them come near to a Eddie Futch, Manny or probably Freddie Roach,
Is this hard for you to understand?

Are these the trainers who will tell you the flaws in the Ingle system ?
All good trainers. Of course, none of their fighters got hit never mind put down, like that Errol bloke once did.
I don't need to show you my wisdom - you've already owned me haven't you.

Also name the champion King fighter that was sent to the Ingles (you know like the way King sent McCall to Manny to plot the downfall of Lennox or the way Holy required Manny against Bowe (2) I could go on forever but I won't)
Remember to provide us with a credible source link, if you don't then all the other posters will know that you have do depth and that you should from this point on forever hold your tongue.

Again your reponce will be my sig from now on.

[Pugilist-specialist]

It's been a barren winter in the bleak Scottish countryside.

You can twist words if you want - you introduced "champion". Only a spurious one - is that more "evidence" of a flawed system ?

I thought the King heavyweight would shut up the self-proclaimed internet-boxing expert. You're on IGNORE until you name him.

Come on Saxon-baby. I don't know anything about boxing and I'm laughing at you.

DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD

[palooka]

The 'Ingle' system does have flaws; any style does. The majority of Ingle boxers I have seen are far happier at range and countering. They do tend to have a decent defence - often by being able to move in an agile and co-ordinated manner. Switch hitting also adds to the mix. A capable and talented 'Ingle system' boxer also hits with power, brought through timing and using the legs correctly.

I enjoy watching an Ingle boxer, particularly if they 'know what they are doing' and are in against an aggressive orthodox boxer. The Ingle boxer can shine against these men. From time to time a less talented Ingle boxer will fiddle and fudge their way through and everything looks 'wrong'.

I also like to watch a top mexican body punching in fighter - Chavez in his prime for example. The action is incredible; again though, it depends on the style of boxing they are facing.

There is no 'super style' of boxing that is flawless and infallible. Boxing is scientific, Brendan Ingle thought his system through and it is a novel addition to the more orthodox styles. (IMO)

[Jon Saxon]

It's been a barren winter in the bleak Scottish countryside.

You can twist words if you want - you introduced "champion". Only a spurious one - is that more "evidence" of a flawed system ?

I thought the King heavyweight would shut up the self-proclaimed internet-boxing expert. You're on IGNORE until you name him.

Come on Saxon-baby. I don't know anything about boxing and I'm laughing at you.

DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD Emoticons please help me with my arguement this guy is owning me and i dont like the feeling

Oh dear folks it seems poor Pugilist-specialist doesnt seem to have any answers,
In truth I dont like liars, I never have, you sir are nothing more than a liar, the joy this thread is giving me knows no end.
so the queston begs Billy Liar, are you going to bottle out of giving me some answers in front of these smart people on this well viewed thread?


AGAIN I WILL ASK YOU

Why cant you tell us what great (hell any decent world champ or known fighter will do, in fact when did The Ingles EVEN work his corner? I dont remember this.. hmm strange, could it be that NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER) fighter was sent by King to shefield? lol you cant, you have no scource, no cred, NOTHING. owned forever, I am now your father and will always be...another Epic fail on your part again.

DO YOU THINK (Like Simon above) THAT THE INGLE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?.

Face it baby all you bring is dumb emoticons to help your feeble arguement, you got nothing & you bring nothing, no knowledge, no insight, no witt, no brains no retort, no grounding AND NO DIRECT RESPONCES!

Another keyboard comando & intellectual COWARD bites the dust.

A TRULY EPIC FAIL IN THE EYES OF THE KNOWLEDGEABLE
(and i dont need little animations for you to smell the joy coming out of my words)

[Jon Saxon]

cat got your tounge?

[palooka]

I can't see any boxing 'style' that has no 'flaws' or disadvantages. Each has it's strengths and a capable, fit and experienced boxer will do pretty well boxing with a 'poor' style.

Although Herol Graham did get knocked out by Julian Jackson, that in itself does not 'prove' anything about the 'Ingle system'. Herol got caught smack on the chin by one of the hardest middleweight hitters post WW2. (Jackson knocked out or stopped 49 men; he hit people and hard regardless of their style of boxing).

Many of the boxers at the Ingle gym can box very well in an orthodox manner and have good fundamental technique. The boxers that tend to do well in the sport have more than a, 'jab, cross and then hook style'. They choose to box in a style that offers them more defensive and offensive options.

Most boxers lose at some point their careers and those losses can be put down to a number of factors - not just the trainer.

(I'd not really say that Kell Brook is a 'textbook' Ingle boxer; he is a very powerful fighter who relies a little bit too much on his strength and comes in and out pretty straight; it has worked for him well up to now and is his own personal interpretation of the style. Bomber Graham (pre Kalumbay) was the exquisite Ingle fighter ) (IMO)

[Jon Saxon]

I can't see any boxing 'style' that has no 'flaws' or disadvantages. Each has it's strengths and a capable, fit and experienced boxer will do pretty well boxing with a 'poor' style.

Although Herol Graham did get knocked out by Julian Jackson, that in itself does not 'prove' anything about the 'Ingle system'. Herol got caught smack on the chin by one of the hardest middleweight hitters post WW2. (Jackson knocked out or stopped 49 men; he hit people and hard regardless of their style of boxing).

Many of the boxers at the Ingle gym can box very well in an orthodox manner and have good fundamental technique. The boxers that tend to do well in the sport have more than a, 'jab, cross and then hook style'. They choose to box in a style that offers them more defensive and offensive options.

Most boxers lose at some point their careers and those losses can be put down to a number of factors - not just the trainer.

(I'd not really say that Kell Brook is a 'textbook' Ingle boxer; he is a very powerful fighter who relies a little bit too much on his strength and comes in and out pretty straight; it has worked for him well up to now and is his own personal interpretation of the style. Bomber Graham (pre Kalumbay) was the exquisite Ingle fighter ) (IMO)

some nice writing there Simon,

Do you know who this King figher was who woworked with the Ingles?

[palooka]

I imagine that with McCall going to Kronk to prepare for Lewis was part to get him away from his environment and people that he was around, (I'm pretty sure he had a serious drug problem) and because Steward had seen Lewis close up and could offer inside info and encouragement.

With Holyfield going to Kronk prior to the Bowe rematch; Evander had trained with Steward at Kronk prior to to the 84 Olympic Games and had made a good impression. From some of the things that have come out about Holyfields domestic situation and the pressures he felt I am sure it would have been a good move to get away from his home town for a spell.

Steward has an enviable record as a trainer of excellent boxers and champions; to accept that and also say that there are other excellent trainers, motivators and tacticians does not mean that someone (Ingle) has to slated.

[palooka]

Thank you Jon :) I haven't a clue who it may be. I know a couple of lads who boxed from the gym 15 or so years back and I'll ask them. I imagine that Don King would have wanted to get right in with the Ingles when Naseem was doing the business and making a lot of interest and money; (Don King was also pretty tight with Mr warren around that time I think).

[palooka]

I can't see any boxing 'style' that has no 'flaws' or disadvantages. Each has it's strengths and a capable, fit and experienced boxer will do pretty well boxing with a 'poor' style.

this is an excellent point because for every boxing style there is another to counter it which makes boxing such a great sport to watch. I love watching intelligent boxers who have several game plans and can change styles mid-fight. I like watching Ingle boxers as their is something different about it but like all styles there is a solution to the problems it throws up to the boxer in the other corner. I recently went back and watched alot of Naz's fights and was quite shocked how wild he was at times. There is no doubt Naz was fantasticly entertaining but as soon as he left Euro level if style looked a bit more suspect against clever/ better schooled fighters. Yes Hamed did lose the plot somewhat depending too much on his power and although i believe the Hamed that fought Robinson would of beated MAB he really was taken to school by the great mexican when they fianlly met.

I was a fan of Hamed when he was an amateur but by the time Barerra got his hands on him I wanted him to get brought down a peg or two. The Hamed who beat Robinson was some fighter but was already relying on power shots; the Hamed that beat Belcastro would have hardly taken a hard punch.

[palooka]

Thank you Jon :) I haven't a clue who it may be. I know a couple of lads who boxed from the gym 15 or so years back and I'll ask them. I imagine that Don King would have wanted to get right in with the Ingles when Naseem was doing the business and making a lot of interest and money; (Don King was also pretty tight with Mr warren around that time I think).

i thought it would of been during the time that King/Warren were working together, didnt the poster say the boxer was white earlier in the thread?

I think he said that he was not white.

[palooka]

this is an excellent point because for every boxing style there is another to counter it which makes boxing such a great sport to watch. I love watching intelligent boxers who have several game plans and can change styles mid-fight. I like watching Ingle boxers as their is something different about it but like all styles there is a solution to the problems it throws up to the boxer in the other corner. I recently went back and watched alot of Naz's fights and was quite shocked how wild he was at times. There is no doubt Naz was fantasticly entertaining but as soon as he left Euro level if style looked a bit more suspect against clever/ better schooled fighters. Yes Hamed did lose the plot somewhat depending too much on his power and although i believe the Hamed that fought Robinson would of beated MAB he really was taken to school by the great mexican when they fianlly met.

I was a fan of Hamed when he was an amateur but by the time Barerra got his hands on him I wanted him to get brought down a peg or two. The Hamed who beat Robinson was some fighter but was already relying on power shots; the Hamed that beat Belcastro would have hardly taken a hard punch.

IMO the Hamed that fought Robinson got balance right between power and movement, i will never forget watching that fight as it was one hell of a performence. I wanted Hamed to beat MAB but there was something very unpleasent about him around that time and although i was sad he was taken to school so badly he deserved it.

Yes, I agree. he had turned into a very arrogant and silly young man, very different from the 'tongue in cheek' stuff a few years earlier.

[palooka]

Southpaw may know when he logs on; he knows what was what around that time.

[mickey1975]

A shot in the dark,but was it Owen "what the heck" Beck? I think he trained with the Ingles but not sure if it was through King.

[mickey1975]

I have just googled him and he was signed with King and has an early career fight in England.Purely through memory,i am sure he trained with the Ingles.If so,i have shocked myself with my memory!

[palooka]

That is pretty impressive there are loads on BoxRec that really know their stuff but that was good.

[Jon Saxon]

Watching the decline on Naz was truly sad, I think that he would have stood them all on thier heads if he had not went powerhungry.
I agree the Naz who fought Belcastro was another thing entirely. what truly wasted amazing talent and the worst thing is that all the yanks dont get how good he really was.

If he had stayed at BW/SB He would have been something truly special I think.

[palooka]

I agree Jon and the sad part is that it was staying close to the Ingle system that enabled Naseem to showcase his physical gifts so well. when he started to go off track, training at odd hours and stopped listening to Brendan Ingle he deteriorated. I live in South Yorksire and Naseem was always in the Doncaster Star as an amateur (also in Boxing News). By the time he got to world title level he was on the decline. The Naseem on the way up, before the money and attention spoiled him; that Naseem was a force of nature, fast, powerful, unpredictable and confident; he was moulded that way within the Ingle system.

[big lennox]

It's been a barren winter in the bleak Scottish countryside.

You can twist words if you want - you introduced "champion". Only a spurious one - is that more "evidence" of a flawed system ?

I thought the King heavyweight would shut up the self-proclaimed internet-boxing expert. You're on IGNORE until you name him.

Come on Saxon-baby. I don't know anything about boxing and I'm laughing at you.

DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD Emoticons please help me with my arguement this guy is owning me and i dont like the feeling

Oh dear folks it seems poor Pugilist-specialist doesnt seem to have any answers,
In truth I dont like liars, I never have, you sir are nothing more than a liar, the joy this thread is giving me knows no end.
so the queston begs Billy Liar, are you going to bottle out of giving me some answers in front of these smart people on this well viewed thread?


AGAIN I WILL ASK YOU

Why cant you tell us what great (hell any decent world champ or known fighter will do, in fact when did The Ingles EVEN work his corner? I dont remember this.. hmm strange, could it be that NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER) fighter was sent by King to shefield? lol you cant, you have no scource, no cred, NOTHING. owned forever, I am now your father and will always be...another Epic fail on your part again.

DO YOU THINK (Like Simon above) THAT THE INGLE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?.

Face it baby all you bring is dumb emoticons to help your feeble arguement, you got nothing & you bring nothing, no knowledge, no insight, no witt, no brains no retort, no grounding AND NO DIRECT RESPONCES!

Another keyboard comando & intellectual COWARD bites the dust.

A TRULY EPIC FAIL IN THE EYES OF THE KNOWLEDGEABLE
(and i dont need little animations for you to smell the joy coming out of my words)

Oh dear Mr SAXON.You come over as insufferably smug in your posts, and a bit unpleasant.Looking at your child like arguments, I have a strong impression that you are very passionate about boxing, but are in actual fact a little bit dim.If you want to argue that a gym that continues to produce high level champions is ultimately flawed, then that is your right, but again, I refer you to the issue of credibility.

[Pugilist-specialist]

I agree Jon and the sad part is that it was staying close to the Ingle system that enabled Naseem to showcase his physical gifts so well. when he started to go off track, training at odd hours and stopped listening to Brendan Ingle he deteriorated. I live in South Yorksire and Naseem was always in the Doncaster Star as an amateur (also in Boxing News). By the time he got to world title level he was on the decline. The Naseem on the way up, before the money and attention spoiled him; that Naseem was a force of nature, fast, powerful, unpredictable and confident; he was moulded that way within the Ingle system.

Great post. I agree 100%.

Anyone foolish enough to believe that it was Manny who taught him body shots, obviously missed his pro debut at 18.



mickey got Johnny Nelson's ring entrance music right last week and he's spot-on again.

For a hat-trick can you name the cruiserweight from the Sauerland camp that trained at the Ingles ? (Clue - it's not Herbie Hide).

[Pugilist-specialist]

Ingle's British, Euro or World champs :

Naz, Johnny Nelson, Witter, Herol Graham, Ryan Rhodes, Esham Pickering, Danny McIntosh, Jon Thaxton, Carl Johanneson, Brian Anderson, Chris Saunders, John Keeton, Slugger O'Toole,
Kell Brook, Neville Brown

English champs :

Andrew Facey, Adnan Amar

Trained Silky Jones from a schoolboy ( won WBO title with Hearn). Also trained Jav Khaliq and James Hare as young pros.

Apologies if I've missed some.



Alternative "decent Great British trainer" : "was it steve Pollard I think so, yes it was" :

Champions : Paul Ingle.


Only on the internet would somebody argue that the first system is the flawed system.

No more questions, your honour.

[Jon Saxon]

Ingle's British, Euro or World champs :

Naz, Johnny Nelson, Witter, Herol Graham, Ryan Rhodes, Esham Pickering, Danny McIntosh, Jon Thaxton, Carl Johanneson, Brian Anderson, Chris Saunders, John Keeton, Slugger O'Toole,
Kell Brook, Neville Brown

English champs :

Andrew Facey, Adnan Amar

Trained Silky Jones from a schoolboy ( won WBO title with Hearn). Also trained Jav Khaliq and James Hare as young pros.

Apologies if I've missed some.



Alternative "decent Great British trainer" : "was it steve Pollard I think so, yes it was" : YAWN, AGAIN OUT OF CONTEXT I ALSO SAID GEORGE FRANCIS, ADAM BOOTH, ETC ETC..In fact I could go on but to be honest the yank trainers are better so deal with it.

God is that the best attempt you have to dig yourself out of a deep hole? stop inventing things it just looks bad for you

Champions : Paul Ingle.


Only on the internet would somebody argue that the first system is the flawed system.

No more questions, your honour.

What don't you understand?? can't you read??
My pioint is that the style does not work at elite level, "Elite" being PFP ATG.


If you don't understand this then you are a mentalist.

[Jon Saxon]

It's been a barren winter in the bleak Scottish countryside.

You can twist words if you want - you introduced "champion". Only a spurious one - is that more "evidence" of a flawed system ?

I thought the King heavyweight would shut up the self-proclaimed internet-boxing expert. You're on IGNORE until you name him.

Come on Saxon-baby. I don't know anything about boxing and I'm laughing at you.

DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD DD Emoticons please help me with my arguement this guy is owning me and i dont like the feeling

Oh dear folks it seems poor Pugilist-specialist doesnt seem to have any answers,
In truth I dont like liars, I never have, you sir are nothing more than a liar, the joy this thread is giving me knows no end.
so the queston begs Billy Liar, are you going to bottle out of giving me some answers in front of these smart people on this well viewed thread?


AGAIN I WILL ASK YOU

Why cant you tell us what great (hell any decent world champ or known fighter will do, in fact when did The Ingles EVEN work his corner? I dont remember this.. hmm strange, could it be that NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER) fighter was sent by King to shefield? lol you cant, you have no scource, no cred, NOTHING. owned forever, I am now your father and will always be...another Epic fail on your part again.

DO YOU THINK (Like Simon above) THAT THE INGLE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?.

Face it baby all you bring is dumb emoticons to help your feeble arguement, you got nothing & you bring nothing, no knowledge, no insight, no witt, no brains no retort, no grounding AND NO DIRECT RESPONCES!

Another keyboard comando & intellectual COWARD bites the dust.

A TRULY EPIC FAIL IN THE EYES OF THE KNOWLEDGEABLE
(and i dont need little animations for you to smell the joy coming out of my words)

Oh dear Mr SAXON.You come over as insufferably smug in your posts, and a bit unpleasant.Looking at your child like arguments, I have a strong impression that you are very passionate about boxing, but are in actual fact a little bit dim.If you want to argue that a gym that continues to produce high level champions is ultimately flawed, then that is your right, but again, I refer you to the issue of credibility.

It does not produce at the highest (you know PFP etc..) level BECAUSE IT IS FLAWED


God you are not very bright.

[Jon Saxon]

Ingle's British, Euro or World champs :

Naz, Johnny Nelson, Witter, Herol Graham, Ryan Rhodes, Esham Pickering, Danny McIntosh, Jon Thaxton, Carl Johanneson, Brian Anderson, Chris Saunders, John Keeton, Slugger O'Toole,
Kell Brook, Neville Brown

English champs :

Andrew Facey, Adnan Amar

Trained Silky Jones from a schoolboy ( won WBO title with Hearn). Also trained Jav Khaliq and James Hare as young pros.

Apologies if I've missed some.



Alternative "decent Great British trainer" : "was it steve Pollard I think so, yes it was" :

Champions : Paul Ingle.


Only on the internet would somebody argue that the first system is the flawed system.

No more questions, your honour.

AGAIN I WILL ASK YOU

what King fighter was sent to shefield?

DO YOU THINK THAT THE INGLE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?.


Cluck cluck cluck....

[Jon Saxon]

Ingle's British, Euro or World champs :

Naz, Johnny Nelson, Witter, Herol Graham, Ryan Rhodes, Esham Pickering, Danny McIntosh, Jon Thaxton, Carl Johanneson, Brian Anderson, Chris Saunders, John Keeton, Slugger O'Toole,
Kell Brook, Neville Brown
English champs :
Andrew Facey, Adnan Amar
Trained Silky Jones from a schoolboy ( won WBO title with Hearn). Also trained Jav Khaliq and James Hare as young pros.
Apologies if I've missed some.
Alternative "decent Great British trainer" : "was it steve Pollard I think so, yes it was" : Adam Booth, Gerorge Sander, oh yes and lets not fprget Phil Martin..i could go on for ages.
Champions : Paul Ingle & David Haye, Frank Bruno and on and on..
Only on the internet would somebody argue that the first system is the flawed system.
No more questions, your honour.

BTW Manny Stewards list puts that to shame doesent it?, TBH i'm not really interested in UK fights (only at a high level, i.e Frochy, Haye, Khan etc..) and the occasional prizefighter.