Kell Brook next fight

[Jon Saxon]

I agree Jon and the sad part is that it was staying close to the Ingle system that enabled Naseem to showcase his physical gifts so well. when he started to go off track, training at odd hours and stopped listening to Brendan Ingle he deteriorated. I live in South Yorksire and Naseem was always in the Doncaster Star as an amateur (also in Boxing News). By the time he got to world title level he was on the decline. The Naseem on the way up, before the money and attention spoiled him; that Naseem was a force of nature, fast, powerful, unpredictable and confident; he was moulded that way within the Ingle system.

Great post. I agree 100%.

Anyone foolish enough to believe that it was Manny who taught him body shots, obviously missed his pro debut at 18.



mickey got Johnny Nelson's ring entrance music right last week and he's spot-on again.

For a hat-trick can you name the cruiserweight from the Sauerland camp that trained at the Ingles ? (Clue - it's not Herbie Hide).

AGAIN I WILL ASK YOU

what King fighter or any TOP USA figher was sent to shefield?

DO YOU THINK THAT THE INGLE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?.


Cluck cluck cluck....

[palooka]

Jon; you had a point when you said that the Ingle system had flaws; it has been admitted that every style of boxing does. It takes a fantastic boxer to box 'world class standard' in 2 or 3 styles.

On the issue of Ingles' system not standing up in the Pound for Pound and All Time Greats; there are not all that many true great boxers. There are certainly far more in the Hall of Fame than were true greats.

How many Pound for Pound boxers have ever come from Great Britain? How many All time Greats from Great Britain? Ingle worked with what he had and in Britain (Yorkshire) that is a pretty small pool of talent compared with Mexico or the USA.

There can be no denying that though there may have been few brilliant stars that have been molded completely within the Wincobank gym the Ingle system and philosophy has done more good than harm. Many young roustabouts have changed their habits and thinking for the better and many have had a boost of confidence through boxing and performing; they have not been badly beaten up in sparring either.

If you've not read the book 'The Corner Men' if you PM me your address I'll send it you but you must send it back as it's one of my favourites

[palooka]

Mickey1975 feels that the Don King boxer was Owen Beck which seems a good choice.

[danfoster]

Re: the foreign heavyweight mentioned above - i'm pretty sure that it was owen beck but it was before my time. i'll call dom later and confirm.

PS Jon Saxon - let it go mate, Simon Fox and others are having a reasoned and really interesting debate but you're coming across like a bit of weirdo with a strange vendetta against Brendan et al

[Jon Saxon]

Re: the foreign heavyweight mentioned above - i'm pretty sure that it was owen beck but it was before my time. i'll call dom later and confirm.

PS Jon Saxon - let it go mate, Simon Fox and others are having a reasoned and really interesting debate but you're coming across like a bit of weirdo with a strange vendetta against Brendan et al

Dan, I just want Pugilist-specialist to give the board a straight answer, no you not Simon not anyone just him, after all it's his bassles claims that started this.

You see you know and I know, hell eveyone knows he doesnt have any but isnt man enought to admit it.

You should never enter into a debate without the proper info to back you up AND more to the point never make shit up as you always get found out.

[mickey1975]

I thought Jon saxon was asking a question,which i answered. Now i think he is trying to suggest NO fighters have been sent to the Ingles as a way of pointing out they must be "flawed".

[Jon Saxon]

Jon; you had a point when you said that the Ingle system had flaws; it has been admitted that every style of boxing does. It takes a fantastic boxer to box 'world class standard' in 2 or 3 styles.

On the issue of Ingles' system not standing up in the Pound for Pound and All Time Greats; there are not all that many true great boxers. There are certainly far more in the Hall of Fame than were true greats.

How many Pound for Pound boxers have ever come from Great Britain? How many All time Greats from Great Britain? Ingle worked with what he had and in Britain (Yorkshire) that is a pretty small pool of talent compared with Mexico or the USA.

There can be no denying that though there may have been few brilliant stars that have been molded completely within the Wincobank gym the Ingle system and philosophy has done more good than harm. Many young roustabouts have changed their habits and thinking for the better and many have had a boost of confidence through boxing and performing; they have not been badly beaten up in sparring either.

If you've not read the book 'The Corner Men' if you PM me your address I'll send it you but you must send it back as it's one of my favourites

I hear what you are saying my point is that if i were a trainer I would teach my fighter the fundaments and not the Ingle system, this is why NO ONE has ever adopted Ingle's unique style and the reason is that Ingle system does not work at the highest level, all this leaving your chin up stuff usually ends with it getting checked.

Yes i would love to read the book and I promise to send it back;-)

[Jon Saxon]

I thought Jon saxon was asking a question,which i answered. Now i think he is trying to suggest NO fighters have been sent to the Ingles as a way of pointing out they must be "flawed".

Hi Mickey,

Yes you are correct,
If I had a prospect i would send himn to the Ingles, I would have higher ambition than that if you see what i mean.

However I want pugulist- specialist to give me HIS answer, you see I think he just makes stuff up.

I have been waiting on his answer for over a day now and it's not looking good for him.

[mickey1975]

I thought Jon saxon was asking a question,which i answered. Now i think he is trying to suggest NO fighters have been sent to the Ingles as a way of pointing out they must be "flawed".

Hi Mickey,

Yes you are correct,
If I had a prospect i would send himn to the Ingles, I would have higher ambition than that if you see what i mean.

However I want pugulist- specialist to give me HIS answer, you see I think he just makes stuff up.

I have been waitintg on his answer for over a day now and it's not looking good for him.

To be fair though,it was supposed to be a trick question,and i answered for him correctly! Herbie Hide,Jon Thaxton,Pele Reid plus countless others have gone to train with the Ingles. Witter is from Bradford and HEROL Graham is from Nottingham for a start.People have travelled from all over to train there. Darren Sutherland left his home country to go there. You just cant argue with their record,it is truly remarkable in any gym let alone just one in Sheffield (where there are a good few gyms to choose from).

[Jon Saxon]

I thought Jon saxon was asking a question,which i answered. Now i think he is trying to suggest NO fighters have been sent to the Ingles as a way of pointing out they must be "flawed".

Hi Mickey,

Yes you are correct,
If I had a prospect i would send himn to the Ingles, I would have higher ambition than that if you see what i mean.

However I want pugulist- specialist to give me HIS answer, you see I think he just makes stuff up.

I have been waitintg on his answer for over a day now and it's not looking good for him.

To be fair though,it was supposed to be a trick question,and i answered for him correctly! Herbie Hide,Jon Thaxton,Pele Reid plus countless others have gone to train with the Ingles. Witter is from Bradford and HEROL Graham is from Nottingham for a start.People have travelled from all over to train there. Darren Sutherland left his home country to go there. You just cant argue with their record,it is truly remarkable in any gym let alone just one in Sheffield (where there are a good few gyms to choose from).

I hear ya but that wasnt my point, my point was that Don King has never sent one of his prospects over to Shefield to get the Ingle treatment and Pugilst- specialist said he did know of a top Us prosepects who had been sent.
Why are you answeing for him anyway Mickey?, it's his noose let him hang himself:-)

still wating....

[palooka]

The Ingle style is not just full of contradictions and weaknesses. It does have it's advantages and the way that the training is set and the sparring is conducted is to maximise results.

World class boxers spar with novice fighters and 4 or more will share a ring and switch sparring partners; no one is knocked about badly or shown up. That is a massive positive in my eyes.

Though you have argued a point Jon; can you see any advantages to the Ingle system, can you see the reasoning behind the manner of training?

The Kronk/Steward system had/has its' detractors and really did depend upon a particular body type (lanky, long arms, tough and with power).

I loved to watch the style employed by Don Curry, trained by Dave Gorman. Curry was magnificent in his prime, look what he did to McCrory (Kronk).

[black panther]

Jon, you make some good points. But the base of your argument is that because Ingle fighters have been found wanting at the very highest level, the "elite" level of boxing, the style is flawed and will always be found wanting at that level. However, how many gyms actually produce "elite" fighters? Not very many in percentage terms. Does that mean that every gym that doesn't have an elite fighter to its name teaches a flawed style?

I just think there aren't many "elite" fighters out there. For the record I think Naz at his peak was such a fighter but having lost to the only true "elite" fighter he faced, albeit when he was past his best, this can only be an opinion.

Ps.

Glad you agree that we didn't see the best of Naz by the time he was fighting in the USA against the likes of Kelley and Barrera. He had slipped considerably by then and had become in love with his power as opposed to the early days where he worked the body and threw combinations.

[Jon Saxon]

Jon, you make some good points. But the base of your argument is that because Ingle fighters have been found wanting at the very highest level, the "elite" level of boxing, the style is flawed and will always be found wanting at that level. However, how many gyms actually produce "elite" fighters? Not very many in percentage terms. Does that mean that every gym that doesn't have an elite fighter to its name teaches a flawed style?

I just think there aren't many "elite" fighters out there. For the record I think Naz at his peak was such a fighter but having lost to the only true "elite" fighter he faced, albeit when he was past his best, this can only be an opinion.

Ps.

Glad you agree that we didn't see the best of Naz by the time he was fighting in the USA against the likes of Kelley and Barrera. He had slipped considerably by then and had become in love with his power as opposed to the early days where he worked the body and threw combinations.

Could not agree more and as I have said before Naz was the single biggest disapointment for me in the sports history.
I mean the Ingle style hat he used worked greatly for Naz initially as he used to get fighters to walk into his power therefore doubling his power, then after that he thought he was a pucher and would try to move forward and intimidate fighters with his power, and when they werent and they had good chins and could box then the game was a bogey!

You could't hit him with a bag of rice and yet at the end you couldnt miss him with one either.

[SOUTHPAW]

Defo.....Owen "what the heck" Beck.......ALSO Jon ....what is the elite style?????

[Jon Saxon]

Defo.....Owen "what the heck" Beck.......ALSO Jon ....what is the elite style?????

Elite style did i said that?? Elite class is what I mean (must go and check what I said) by that what I mean is the class at the very top you know SRR, SRR, Barrera, all the well rounded fighters that can compete at the VERY top.
I.E the best 'schooled' fighters in the world.
You will not that I left out Jones Jnr (whom I believe to be the best that ever laced them up) you see unlike most I believe Jones Jrn had amzing fundamentals BUT chose to fight his own style as it worked better than the basics (a rarity in my book) for example look at how good his jab was against Ruiz or say Paz, then look at his straight rights against Toney & Telsco, the look at his uppercuts against Griifin (2) then look at his body work agains Glen Thomas, or his head movement against..well anyone...or his hook of the jab..or his defence against the ropes..or his power (at his natural weight of course) or his footwork. he was the whole package the best I have seen.

Obvioulsy you cant put fighters like Jones Jnr into an category like you can a sound fighter or an Ingle fighter.
Of course like all ATG's it's horrible to watch where he's at now, Clazaghe, Johnson, Tarver etc etc. would have all been beaten with ease in his prime.

Post Ruiz it was over.


PS Owen Beck had two UK fights and prompty left, I guess King never sent a great prposect after all.

I rest my case.

[mickey1975]

Defo.....Owen "what the heck" Beck.......ALSO Jon ....what is the elite style?????

Elite style did i said that?? Elite class is what I mean (must go and check what I said) by that what I mean is the class at the very top you know SRR, SRR, Barrera, all the well rounded fighters that can compete at the VERY top.
I.E the best 'schooled' fighters in the world.
You will not that I left out Jones Jnr (whom I believe to be the best that ever laced them up) you see unlike most I believe Jones Jrn had amzing fundamentals BUT chose to fight his own style as it worked better than the basics (a rarity in my book) for example look at how good his jab was against Ruiz or say Paz, then look at his straight rights against Toney & Telsco, the look at his uppercuts against Griifin (2) then look at his body work agains Glen Thomas, or his head movement against..well anyone...or his hook of the jab..or his defence against the ropes..or his power (at his natural weight of course) or his footwork. he was the whole package the best I have seen.

Obvioulsy you cant put fighters like Jones Jnr into an category like you can a sound fighter or an Ingle fighter.
Of course like all ATG's it's horrible to watch where he's at now, Clazaghe, Johnson, Tarver etc etc. would have all been beaten with ease in his prime.

Post Ruiz it was over.


PS Owen Beck had two UK fights and prompty left, I guess King never sent a great prposect after all.

I rest my case.

You said name a prospect thinking you were being clever because you thought they were none.You got your answer in Beck who,whatever has happened to him since,was signed to Don King.

[Jon Saxon]

Defo.....Owen "what the heck" Beck.......ALSO Jon ....what is the elite style?????

Elite style did i said that?? Elite class is what I mean (must go and check what I said) by that what I mean is the class at the very top you know SRR, SRR, Barrera, all the well rounded fighters that can compete at the VERY top.
I.E the best 'schooled' fighters in the world.
You will not that I left out Jones Jnr (whom I believe to be the best that ever laced them up) you see unlike most I believe Jones Jrn had amzing fundamentals BUT chose to fight his own style as it worked better than the basics (a rarity in my book) for example look at how good his jab was against Ruiz or say Paz, then look at his straight rights against Toney & Telsco, the look at his uppercuts against Griifin (2) then look at his body work agains Glen Thomas, or his head movement against..well anyone...or his hook of the jab..or his defence against the ropes..or his power (at his natural weight of course) or his footwork. he was the whole package the best I have seen.

Obvioulsy you cant put fighters like Jones Jnr into an category like you can a sound fighter or an Ingle fighter.
Of course like all ATG's it's horrible to watch where he's at now, Clazaghe, Johnson, Tarver etc etc. would have all been beaten with ease in his prime.

Post Ruiz it was over.


PS Owen Beck had two UK fights and prompty left, I guess King never sent a great prposect after all.

I rest my case.

You said name a prospect thinking you were being clever because you thought they were none.You got your answer in Beck who,whatever has happened to him since,was signed to Don King.

Hey Mickey what colour is the sky? I say it's green! of course its not, so was Owen Beck EVER a top propspect?, you think he was! of course he wasn't.

Get the fuk outa here Owen beck a top Prospect?? lol what are you on, If you said Miguel Cotto or James Kirkland (who's crap but people had high hopes for him) or maybe Voctor Ortiz, or at Heavy from back in the day say..a Klit or Maybe a Solis or Haye I would say "yeah thye Ingles know there shit" but the "top prospect you give me is @Owne 'what the fuk Beck" lol man your crazy.
Whoa young man, he only fought in Britain and trained AT Ingle's, he WASN'T an Ingle fighter nor was he EVER a great prospect, I imgine quite a few have been the Ingle's gym over tghe years but no top propects have been sent to make them fight better

My point remains the same the US dont rate the Ingles if they did the would have head hunted them for their fighters.

lol I'm still laughing, I thought you were joking when you said mentioned Beck had training there, I never for a minute thought any of you rated him as a real hot prospect.
Man thats funny!

PS STILL WAITING ON P-S's 'real' answers.

[mickey1975]

Beck was an undefeated prospect at the time.He did not lose until his 25th fight.You cant say he was not a prospect because he didnt turn out great just as you cant say a style is flawed just because some of the boxers get beat occasionally.Im leaving this one now,wiki Beck,he werent bad you know.

[Jon Saxon]

Beck was an undefeated prospect at the time.He did not lose until his 25th fight.You cant say he was not a prospect because he didnt turn out great just as you cant say a style is flawed just because some of the boxers get beat occasionally.Im leaving this one now,wiki Beck,he werent bad you know.

Prospect? lol he had only had ONE fight
Do you know how he did as an amatuer? I remember him getting chinned an not winning anything of relevance, his73 - 5 amatuer rec was complied in obscurity, not exactly David Price, or Audley or Haye stuff is it?
Now if you had said someone like Alex Stewart then I just might have let it go, but Owen Beck??

So top prospect no, prospect after one fight?? lol.

[mickey1975]

Beck was an undefeated prospect at the time.He did not lose until his 25th fight.You cant say he was not a prospect because he didnt turn out great just as you cant say a style is flawed just because some of the boxers get beat occasionally.Im leaving this one now,wiki Beck,he werent bad you know.

Prospect? lol he had only had ONE fight
Do you know how he did as an amatuer? I remember him getting chinned an not winning anything of relevance, his73 - 5 amatuer rec was complied in obscurity, not exactly David Price, or Audley or Haye stuff is it?
Now if you had said someone like Alex Stewart then I just might have let it go, but Owen Beck??

So top prospect no, prospect after one fight?? lol.

You are just annoyed as you thought you asked me an impossible question to prove your point and i answered.

[Jon Saxon]

Beck was an undefeated prospect at the time.He did not lose until his 25th fight.You cant say he was not a prospect because he didnt turn out great just as you cant say a style is flawed just because some of the boxers get beat occasionally.Im leaving this one now,wiki Beck,he werent bad you know.

Prospect? lol he had only had ONE fight
Do you know how he did as an amatuer? I remember him getting chinned an not winning anything of relevance, his73 - 5 amatuer rec was complied in obscurity, not exactly David Price, or Audley or Haye stuff is it?
Now if you had said someone like Alex Stewart then I just might have let it go, but Owen Beck??

So top prospect no, prospect after one fight?? lol.

You are just annoyed as you thought you asked me an impossible question to prove your point and i answered.

Mickey I never asked you a question, i asked 'Pugilsic demntia' so what are you talking about? and hey lets not forget that wasnt the right answer as...
A it cant be proved
B It wasnt your question and yet you jumped in with a fake answer
C It was the erong answer.
D The answer was irrelevant to my question.


smell the truth Mickey..smell the truth.

Now where has PS gone? lol

OK MICKEY I NEED A SCOURCE TO PROVE THAT BECK WAS SENT HERE BY KING TO BE TRAINED BY INGLE TO HELP BETTER HIS TECNIQUE,YOU SEE AS I DONT BELIEVE YOUR ANSWER SO FAR AND I NEED PROOF.

So one you go then, lets have it....

[SOUTHPAW]

Prospect? lol he had only had ONE fight
Do you know how he did as an amatuer? I remember him getting chinned an not winning anything of relevance, his73 - 5 amatuer rec was complied in obscurity, not exactly David Price, or Audley or Haye stuff is it?
Now if you had said someone like Alex Stewart then I just might have let it go, but Owen Beck??

So top prospect no, prospect after one fight?? lol.

You are just annoyed as you thought you asked me an impossible question to prove your point and i answered.

Mickey I never asked you a question, i asked 'Pugilsic demntia' so what are you talking about? and hey lets not forget that wasnt the right answer as...
A it cant be proved
B It wasnt your question and yet you jumped in with a fake answer
C It was the erong answer.
D The answer was irrelevant to my question.


smell the truth Mickey..smell the truth.

Now where has PS gone? lol

OK MICKEY I NEED A SCOURCE TO PROVE THAT BECK WAS SENT HERE BY KING TO BE TRAINED BY INGLE TO HELP BETTER HIS TECNIQUE,YOU SEE AS I DONT BELIEVE YOUR ANSWER SO FAR AND I NEED PROOF.

So one you go then, lets have it....

He was managed/promoted by king.......he was at the ingles.....i saw him there 100's of times....not rockect science is it

[SOUTHPAW]

My point remains the same the US dont rate the Ingles if they did the would have head hunted them for their fighters.

Anything whats not from the US jon...... they dont rate.......

[Jon Saxon]

You are just annoyed as you thought you asked me an impossible question to prove your point and i answered.

Mickey I never asked you a question, i asked 'Pugilsic demntia' so what are you talking about? and hey lets not forget that wasnt the right answer as...
A it cant be proved
B It wasnt your question and yet you jumped in with a fake answer
C It was the erong answer.
D The answer was irrelevant to my question.


smell the truth Mickey..smell the truth.

Now where has PS gone? lol

OK MICKEY I NEED A SCOURCE TO PROVE THAT BECK WAS SENT HERE BY KING TO BE TRAINED BY INGLE TO HELP BETTER HIS TECNIQUE,YOU SEE AS I DONT BELIEVE YOUR ANSWER SO FAR AND I NEED PROOF.

So one you go then, lets have it....

He was managed/promoted by king.......he was at the ingles.....i saw him there 100's of times....not rockect science is it

Yeah but he wasnt there to be trained BY the Ingles, in fact I'm now going to look into this.

[danfoster]

Mickey I never asked you a question, i asked 'Pugilsic demntia' so what are you talking about? and hey lets not forget that wasnt the right answer as...
A it cant be proved
B It wasnt your question and yet you jumped in with a fake answer
C It was the erong answer.
D The answer was irrelevant to my question.


smell the truth Mickey..smell the truth.

Now where has PS gone? lol

OK MICKEY I NEED A SCOURCE TO PROVE THAT BECK WAS SENT HERE BY KING TO BE TRAINED BY INGLE TO HELP BETTER HIS TECNIQUE,YOU SEE AS I DONT BELIEVE YOUR ANSWER SO FAR AND I NEED PROOF.

So one you go then, lets have it....

He was managed/promoted by king.......he was at the ingles.....i saw him there 100's of times....not rockect science is it

Yeah but he wasnt there to be trained BY the Ingles, in fact I'm now going to look into this.

Please move on with your life Jon.