Most Overrated Heavyweight of all time?

[crusader]

I really don't see how Lewis is overrated. It seems to me that the majority of people who discuss his all-time ranking tend to place him in the low top 10-12 range--not somewhere ridiculous like the top 3/4. If you don't see a legit case for ranking Lewis in the top 10/12, can you please present a cogent argument as to why not.

In my experience people tend to have him closer to the 3-4 realm than the 10-12 one, although I'd agree the latter is right around where he belongs.

If that's the case then he is being overrated, but I most of the time I tend to find him around the lower half of the top 10.

[barry]

>>>This is a bizarre thing to say! "Lennox beat everyone he ever fought.........but he should have beaten them better".<<<

He did beat the best there was in his era, except for Bowe, but it has been a very, very weak era. Lewis was KO'd, he never got off the deck to win and 85% his fights were hard to watch...not the makings of an all-time great champion! His power and size, and skill, he should have destroyed opponents...David Tua, very hard puncher, but very limited. He had some good fights, but he was no where near as dominate as he should have been. He was too cautious and every time that he got hit good, he got hurt! Any fighter can be knocked out, but the all-time greats won like an all-time great should win...Lewis simply got by a lot of the time! His style would make it hard for anyone to beat him, but for him to just get by and win as ugly as he did...well, it just don't leave a lot of room for greatness! I give him complete credit for being the best heavyweight of his era, aside from Bowe, as they never fought as pro's. I'm not saying that Bowe was better than Lewis, but Lewis certainly was not better than Bowe either and had the two fought at their very best I believe Bowe would have absolutely destroyed Lewis...if Lewis had had a strong chin, I may have a different view of who would win, but with those whisker and Bowe had a great chin at his best...well, Bowe had all the attributes! But then again...if Lewis came out against Bowe throwing big shots then he certainly could knockout anyone, but unfortunately Lewis was not that kind of fighter, which is why I do not list him as an all-time great!

[Controversial]

>>>This is a bizarre thing to say! "Lennox beat everyone he ever fought.........but he should have beaten them better".<<<

He did beat the best there was in his era, except for Bowe, but it has been a very, very weak era. Lewis was KO'd, he never got off the deck to win and 85% his fights were hard to watch...not the makings of an all-time great champion! His power and size, and skill, he should have destroyed opponents...David Tua, very hard puncher, but very limited. He had some good fights, but he was no where near as dominate as he should have been. He was too cautious and every time that he got hit good, he got hurt! Any fighter can be knocked out, but the all-time greats won like an all-time great should win...Lewis simply got by a lot of the time! His style would make it hard for anyone to beat him, but for him to just get by and win as ugly as he did...well, it just don't leave a lot of room for greatness! I give him complete credit for being the best heavyweight of his era, aside from Bowe, as they never fought as pro's. I'm not saying that Bowe was better than Lewis, but Lewis certainly was not better than Bowe either and had the two fought at their very best I believe Bowe would have absolutely destroyed Lewis...if Lewis had had a strong chin, I may have a different view of who would win, but with those whisker and Bowe had a great chin at his best...well, Bowe had all the attributes! But then again...if Lewis came out against Bowe throwing big shots then he certainly could knockout anyone, but unfortunately Lewis was not that kind of fighter, which is why I do not list him as an all-time great!

Bowe refused to fight Lewis in 1993 remember. To be fair lots of ATG's had awful fights, Ali and Holmes spring to mind and Marciano's career can be picked to pieces if you look hard enough. I still think a fit and focused Lewis is a hard fight for anyone and in my opinion he would have beaten Bowe.

Bowe's title opponents were jokes, Dokes (past it) and Ferguson (half decent journeyman at best). The rest of his resume is pretty poor, excluding Holyfield, the others were not that good. Even Golota was battering him in both fights before being disqualified.

[barry]

I agree, for the most part, about Bowe thou I don't think he was afraid of, or necessarily ducking Lewis...I just don't believe Bowe ever heard the right amount of money for the risk! Competition-wise Lewis is far ahead of Bowe, but when both men were at their very best I just think Bowe was better with more tools! The Bowe that beat Holyfield in their first fight is the Bowe I am speaking of...he was in supurb condition and his skills were razor-sharp, not to mention his chin! Would Bowe have beaten Lewis, I don't know, but I think he would have! The main factor in my view is the chin on Lewis! When he was dropped he didn't get back up!

[The Great John L]

Foreman and Bowe

[keithmoonhangover]

Bowe is overrated on these boards, without question.

[Idisagree]

The most over-rated is Ike Ibeabuchi. How people keep bringing him up like he was some sort of superman is astonishing.

As for Bowe, the reality is he had some skills that very few could claim. His inside fighting was one of the best at heavyweights. Neither of the K brothers with all the accomplishments could claim that they had better skills than Bowe. I would rate Bowe higher than both of them.

[Controversial]

As for Bowe, the reality is he had some skills that very few could claim. His inside fighting was one of the best at heavyweights. Neither of the K brothers with all the accomplishments could claim that they had better skills than Bowe. I would rate Bowe higher than both of them.

The problem with Bowe is he looked great against journeymen or past it fighters, his resume is pretty poor. He struggled against the decent guys or good fighters on the slide like Tubbs, who gave him a close fight. Golota was ahead on all scorecards in both fights before being disqualified. Bowe didn't prove himself against enough decent fighters for me.

[keithmoonhangover]

The most over-rated is Ike Ibeabuchi. How people keep bringing him up like he was some sort of superman is astonishing.

As for Bowe, the reality is he had some skills that very few could claim. His inside fighting was one of the best at heavyweights. Neither of the K brothers with all the accomplishments could claim that they had better skills than Bowe. I would rate Bowe higher than both of them.

Vitali Klitschko at his best, beats Bowe at his best.

[hhaehre]

On these boards I'd say McCall is vastly overrated.

[Idisagree]

The most over-rated is Ike Ibeabuchi. How people keep bringing him up like he was some sort of superman is astonishing.

As for Bowe, the reality is he had some skills that very few could claim. His inside fighting was one of the best at heavyweights. Neither of the K brothers with all the accomplishments could claim that they had better skills than Bowe. I would rate Bowe higher than both of them.

Vitali Klitschko at his best, beats Bowe at his best.

That is highly debatable. I like Bowe’s chances against both K brothers. Lewis was out of shape and was able to bust Vitali up. Vitali’s power is over-rated and the one time he steps up in class was defeated by an out of shape Lewis. Bowe’s inside fighting would be a nightmare for Vitali. His style of punch and grab would not work with a fighter like Bowe. At close range Bowe is just in another league compare to anything that Vitali or Wlad has faced. Bowe clearly had more skills than both K brothers. His resume is superior to that of the K brothers despite all the accomplishments they have made. As a result Bowe should be ranked ahead of both K brothers.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The Bowe from the first Holyfield fight would slaughter both Klitschko's in the same night.

[Goodnight, Irene]

The Bowe from the first Holyfield fight would slaughter both Klitschko's in the same night.

I dont know about a slaughter, but I would definitely be stunned if either could beat Bowe. I dont see it.

[crusader]

I would favor Bowe, but I would not be stunned if he lost to Vitali.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Vitali is immensely over-rated. Immensely.

[crusader]

He might be immensely overrated by some, but I think his size, chin, stamina, and workrate make him a tough fight for many guys that are ranked higher than he is. Yes, that is a fight Bowe should win, but I would not quite be "stunned" if he didn't. I think Bowe is somewhat overrated as well.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Thats fair enough, and I can accept Vitali as a tough nights work for some of the greats, but I really dont see him as the kind of winner many make him out to be. He throws arm punches, FFS.

[Ezzard]

I think Vitali and Wlad are overrated if you take too much notice of the Current Scene forum. I also think whoever is/are the current king(s) will always be overrated. That's just the nature of it.

[Knucklez]

>>>This is a bizarre thing to say! "Lennox beat everyone he ever fought.........but he should have beaten them better".<<<

He did beat the best there was in his era, except for Bowe, but it has been a very, very weak era. Lewis was KO'd, he never got off the deck to win and 85% his fights were hard to watch...not the makings of an all-time great champion! His power and size, and skill, he should have destroyed opponents...David Tua, very hard puncher, but very limited. He had some good fights, but he was no where near as dominate as he should have been. He was too cautious and every time that he got hit good, he got hurt! Any fighter can be knocked out, but the all-time greats won like an all-time great should win...Lewis simply got by a lot of the time! His style would make it hard for anyone to beat him, but for him to just get by and win as ugly as he did...well, it just don't leave a lot of room for greatness! I give him complete credit for being the best heavyweight of his era, aside from Bowe, as they never fought as pro's. I'm not saying that Bowe was better than Lewis, but Lewis certainly was not better than Bowe either and had the two fought at their very best I believe Bowe would have absolutely destroyed Lewis...if Lewis had had a strong chin, I may have a different view of who would win, but with those whisker and Bowe had a great chin at his best...well, Bowe had all the attributes! But then again...if Lewis came out against Bowe throwing big shots then he certainly could knockout anyone, but unfortunately Lewis was not that kind of fighter, which is why I do not list him as an all-time great!

Frankly, Barry, you're an idiot.

You call Lewis overrated but sing Bowe's praises from the highest hilltop. I'm assuming you're a bog standard, generically uneducated American who thinks any bum in the stars and stripes is better than anyone else. How you're an editor on here is beyond me because you clearly have a very basic knowledge of the sport.

a) Bowe ducked Lewis. There is nothing further to say on this. No debate, no ifs, buts or maybes, Bowe ducked Lewis

b) the 90s were not a weak era in the heavyweight division. It was a perfectly respectable era and one of the strongest in heavyweight history.

c) Lewis was a cautious fighter. This is NOT a negative point, merely an observation on his style. Benny Leonard was cautious so was Willie Pep, Ray Leonard, Larry Holmes, Jose Napoles. The list goes on and on.

d) "85% of his fights were hard to watch" - perhaps you should stick to UFC in future.

e) Bowe's peak lasted about 4 fights. Lewis' lasted about a decade. Bowe's chin was so good he got dropped by the cruiserweight E Holyfield, who couldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight.

You don't seem to be able to differentiate between entertainment and effectiveness, which is a fairly basic error.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

>>>This is a bizarre thing to say! "Lennox beat everyone he ever fought.........but he should have beaten them better".<<<

He did beat the best there was in his era, except for Bowe, but it has been a very, very weak era. Lewis was KO'd, he never got off the deck to win and 85% his fights were hard to watch...not the makings of an all-time great champion! His power and size, and skill, he should have destroyed opponents...David Tua, very hard puncher, but very limited. He had some good fights, but he was no where near as dominate as he should have been. He was too cautious and every time that he got hit good, he got hurt! Any fighter can be knocked out, but the all-time greats won like an all-time great should win...Lewis simply got by a lot of the time! His style would make it hard for anyone to beat him, but for him to just get by and win as ugly as he did...well, it just don't leave a lot of room for greatness! I give him complete credit for being the best heavyweight of his era, aside from Bowe, as they never fought as pro's. I'm not saying that Bowe was better than Lewis, but Lewis certainly was not better than Bowe either and had the two fought at their very best I believe Bowe would have absolutely destroyed Lewis...if Lewis had had a strong chin, I may have a different view of who would win, but with those whisker and Bowe had a great chin at his best...well, Bowe had all the attributes! But then again...if Lewis came out against Bowe throwing big shots then he certainly could knockout anyone, but unfortunately Lewis was not that kind of fighter, which is why I do not list him as an all-time great!

Frankly, Barry, you're an idiot.

You call Lewis overrated but sing Bowe's praises from the highest hilltop. I'm assuming you're a bog standard, generically uneducated American who thinks any bum in the stars and stripes is better than anyone else. How you're an editor on here is beyond me because you clearly have a very basic knowledge of the sport.

a) Bowe ducked Lewis. There is nothing further to say on this. No debate, no ifs, buts or maybes, Bowe ducked Lewis

b) the 90s were not a weak era in the heavyweight division. It was a perfectly respectable era and one of the strongest in heavyweight history.

c) Lewis was a cautious fighter. This is NOT a negative point, merely an observation on his style. Benny Leonard was cautious so was Willie Pep, Ray Leonard, Larry Holmes, Jose Napoles. The list goes on and on.

d) "85% of his fights were hard to watch" - perhaps you should stick to UFC in future.

e) Bowe's peak lasted about 4 fights. Lewis' lasted about a decade. Bowe's chin was so good he got dropped by the cruiserweight E Holyfield, who couldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight.

You don't seem to be able to differentiate between entertainment and effectiveness, which is a fairly basic error.

I can't argue with most of this. But Napoles and Holmes weren't what I would call cautious.

[jrc26]

Tyson (by his rabid supporters), Ali, & Shavers are good choices.

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Once again your hatred blinds you to the true greatness that is Ike Ibeabuchi. The President had several other dominant wins against good fighters such as: Marion Wilson, Rodney Blount, and Mike Acklie.

If it had not been for that unfortunate incident where the prostitute tricked him into locking her in the bathroom with her voodoo tactics, and then made up that story about him threatening her, I think we would be talking about Ike as a top 5 all-time heavyweight. It was just a matter of time before he got his paws on another great like Tommy Morrison or Ray Mercer. Then you would have been a believer. If he makes parole by 48 years of age, I think you may still see a run of greatness and he could beat Foreman's record as the oldest heavyweight champion ever.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Tyson (by his rabid supporters), Ali, & Shavers are good choices.

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Once again your hatred blinds you to the true greatness that is Ike Ibeabuchi. The President had several other dominant wins against good fighters such as: Marion Wilson, Rodney Blount, and Mike Acklie.

If it had not been for that unfortunate incident where the prostitute tricked him into locking her in the bathroom with her voodoo tactics, and then made up that story about him threatening her, I think we would be talking about Ike as a top 5 all-time heavyweight. It was just a matter of time before he got his paws on another great like Tommy Morrison or Ray Mercer. Then you would have been a believer. If he makes parole by 48 years of age, I think you may still see a run of greatness and he could beat Foreman's record as the oldest heavyweight champion ever.

& once again, the sheer grandeur of your stupidity blinds me to the real depth of your insipid bait postings.

[Ezzard]

Tyson (by his rabid supporters), Ali, & Shavers are good choices.

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Once again your hatred blinds you to the true greatness that is Ike Ibeabuchi. The President had several other dominant wins against good fighters such as: Marion Wilson, Rodney Blount, and Mike Acklie.

If it had not been for that unfortunate incident where the prostitute tricked him into locking her in the bathroom with her voodoo tactics, and then made up that story about him threatening her, I think we would be talking about Ike as a top 5 all-time heavyweight. It was just a matter of time before he got his paws on another great like Tommy Morrison or Ray Mercer. Then you would have been a believer. If he makes parole by 48 years of age, I think you may still see a run of greatness and he could beat Foreman's record as the oldest heavyweight champion ever.

Best post yet.

[jrc26]

Tyson (by his rabid supporters), Ali, & Shavers are good choices.

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Once again your hatred blinds you to the true greatness that is Ike Ibeabuchi. The President had several other dominant wins against good fighters such as: Marion Wilson, Rodney Blount, and Mike Acklie.

If it had not been for that unfortunate incident where the prostitute tricked him into locking her in the bathroom with her voodoo tactics, and then made up that story about him threatening her, I think we would be talking about Ike as a top 5 all-time heavyweight. It was just a matter of time before he got his paws on another great like Tommy Morrison or Ray Mercer. Then you would have been a believer. If he makes parole by 48 years of age, I think you may still see a run of greatness and he could beat Foreman's record as the oldest heavyweight champion ever.

& once again, the sheer grandeur of your stupidity blinds me to the real depth of your insipid bait postings.

The only stupid one here is you...as usual. It was meant to be funny, not serious or to bait you. So remove that rather large item inserted in your rectum, that seems to hold a permanent place there, and that also seems to give you a false sense of your own expertise on...well everything.

If I was baiting you I would write a rather long post about how, based on the insecurity and angry defensive nature of most of your posts, that you should really look into getting laid sometime soon...by either a man or a woman, whichever toots your horn.

Seriously lighten up buddy. If you choose to mention your hatred for Ike in every possible thread you can (which Freud may think shows some sort of deep homosexual love for him), then don't be surprised if someone jokes around about Ike back with you. YOU mentioned his name in this thread, NOT anyone else. If you don't want to hear about him, then do not talk about him.

And for what it is worth, I would give a years salary to see you call Ike a "pudendum" to his face. I would even book your first class flight from that Island you have likely never left, just so you can be there when he steps out of prison. I am certain about 200 people in this forum would kick in some money as long as there is video evidence of your beating at the hands of Ike. Your combination of keyboard toughness and you constantly giving yourself an erection based on your own grammar "skills" just astounds me.

I do, however, apologize for writing an ironical post that was meant to be funny. I did not realize that a man with your grammar skills would not understand it's humorous tone, and that your deeply hidden homosexual love for Ike would upset you so much. I shall never respond to his name again...even though you bring him up at least once per week.

[keithmoonhangover]

Once again your hatred blinds you to the true greatness that is Ike Ibeabuchi. The President had several other dominant wins against good fighters such as: Marion Wilson, Rodney Blount, and Mike Acklie.

If it had not been for that unfortunate incident where the prostitute tricked him into locking her in the bathroom with her voodoo tactics, and then made up that story about him threatening her, I think we would be talking about Ike as a top 5 all-time heavyweight. It was just a matter of time before he got his paws on another great like Tommy Morrison or Ray Mercer. Then you would have been a believer. If he makes parole by 48 years of age, I think you may still see a run of greatness and he could beat Foreman's record as the oldest heavyweight champion ever.

& once again, the sheer grandeur of your stupidity blinds me to the real depth of your insipid bait postings.

The only stupid one here is you...as usual. It was meant to be funny, not serious or to bait you. So remove that rather large item inserted in your rectum, that seems to hold a permanent place there, and that also seems to give you a false sense of your own expertise on...well everything.

If I was baiting you I would write a rather long post about how, based on the insecurity and angry defensive nature of most of your posts, that you should really look into getting laid sometime soon...by either a man or a woman, whichever toots your horn.

Seriously lighten up buddy. If you choose to mention your hatred for Ike in every possible thread you can (which Freud may think shows some sort of deep homosexual love for him), then don't be surprised if someone jokes around about Ike back with you. YOU mentioned his name in this thread, NOT anyone else. If you don't want to hear about him, then do not talk about him.

And for what it is worth, I would give a years salary to see you call Ike a "pudendum" to his face. I would even book your first class flight from that Island you have likely never left, just so you can be there when he steps out of prison. I am certain about 200 people in this forum would kick in some money as long as there is video evidence of your beating at the hands of Ike. Your combination of keyboard toughness and you constantly giving yourself an erection based on your own grammar "skills" just astounds me.

I do, however, apologize for writing an ironical post that was meant to be funny. I did not realize that a man with your grammar skills would not understand it's humorous tone, and that your deeply hidden homosexual love for Ike would upset you so much. I shall never respond to his name again...even though you bring him up at least once per week.

Funniest post of the year