Most Overrated Heavyweight of all time?

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

Evander Holyfield

Was he a great fighter? yes he was! but bear this in mind:
In 1999 the RING listed Evander at #3 in their top HWs ever!
Now THAT is overated my friends!
Though the Tyson holyfield beat was younger than the Tyson Lewis beat, the Tyson of 1996 was still past his best... yet that victory seemed to put Evander into immortality... hence the RING rating him so highly.


Take a look at Evanders HW title fight record and its very patchy. 10-7 (and 2 draws)... Yes some of those losses came after his prime, yet it was only WHEN he lost to Lewis people were talking of the end of Evanders prime.... which takes his HW record to 9-3 (1 draw). Hardly dominant.

If anything Evander is the best connected HW in history, as soon as he lost title, being close to King, he got title shots again right away.
ie
Loses title to Bowe... gets a title rematch 2nd fight back
Loses title to Moorer... gets a title shot at Tyosn after going 2-1 in between
Loses his world title to Lewis.... gets put into a WBA fight againt Ruiz next fight!
Loses title to Ruiz... gets immediate rematch
Draws with Ruiz... gets another title shot at Byrd in his 2nd match back
Loses a WBO shot against Ibragimov.... gets another title shot next fight against Valuev

Its no wonder he won a HW title 4 times given his number of opportunities

[keithmoonhangover]

Evander Holyfield

Was he a great fighter? yes he was! but bear this in mind:
In 1999 the RING listed Evander at #3 in their top HWs ever!
Now THAT is overated my friends!
Though the Tyson holyfield beat was younger than the Tyson Lewis beat, the Tyson of 1996 was still past his best... yet that victory seemed to put Evander into immortality... hence the RING rating him so highly.


Take a look at Evanders HW title fight record and its very patchy. 10-7 (and 2 draws)... Yes some of those losses came after his prime, yet it was only WHEN he lost to Lewis people were talking of the end of Evanders prime.... which takes his HW record to 9-3 (1 draw). Hardly dominant.

If anything Evander is the best connected HW in history, as soon as he lost title, being close to King, he got title shots again right away.
ie
Loses title to Bowe... gets a title rematch 2nd fight back
Loses title to Moorer... gets a title shot at Tyosn after going 2-1 in between
Loses his world title to Lewis.... gets put into a WBA fight againt Ruiz next fight!
Loses title to Ruiz... gets immediate rematch
Draws with Ruiz... gets another title shot at Byrd in his 2nd match back
Loses a WBO shot against Ibragimov.... gets another title shot next fight against Valuev

Its no wonder he won a HW title 4 times given his number of opportunities

I agree with you that Tyson was past his best. But you need to remember that Holyfield was considered to be almost shot before the Tyson fight. Evander was well past his prime also and Tyson was the betting favourite.

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

I agree with you that Tyson was past his best. But you need to remember that Holyfield was considered to be almost shot before the Tyson fight. Evander was well past his prime also and Tyson was the betting favourite.

If people say Holy was shot at age 34 when he beat Tyson, then heck... going back to his falsely diagnosed heart problem in losing the titles to Moorer in 1994, we are not judging him by many title fights at HW in his prime are we?

[keithmoonhangover]

I agree with you that Tyson was past his best. But you need to remember that Holyfield was considered to be almost shot before the Tyson fight. Evander was well past his prime also and Tyson was the betting favourite.

If people say Holy was shot at age 34 when he beat Tyson, then heck... going back to his falsely diagnosed heart problem in losing the titles to Moorer in 1994, we are not judging him by many title fights at HW in his prime are we?

Regardless, I grew up as a Holyfield fan and not a Tyson fan, but when they fought, myself and almost all of the boxing media thought Holyfield was past his best.

[Ezzard]

Evander Holyfield

Was he a great fighter? yes he was! but bear this in mind:
In 1999 the RING listed Evander at #3 in their top HWs ever!
Now THAT is overated my friends!
Though the Tyson holyfield beat was younger than the Tyson Lewis beat, the Tyson of 1996 was still past his best... yet that victory seemed to put Evander into immortality... hence the RING rating him so highly.


Take a look at Evanders HW title fight record and its very patchy. 10-7 (and 2 draws)... Yes some of those losses came after his prime, yet it was only WHEN he lost to Lewis people were talking of the end of Evanders prime.... which takes his HW record to 9-3 (1 draw). Hardly dominant.

If anything Evander is the best connected HW in history, as soon as he lost title, being close to King, he got title shots again right away.
ie
Loses title to Bowe... gets a title rematch 2nd fight back
Loses title to Moorer... gets a title shot at Tyosn after going 2-1 in between
Loses his world title to Lewis.... gets put into a WBA fight againt Ruiz next fight!
Loses title to Ruiz... gets immediate rematch
Draws with Ruiz... gets another title shot at Byrd in his 2nd match back
Loses a WBO shot against Ibragimov.... gets another title shot next fight against Valuev

Its no wonder he won a HW title 4 times given his number of opportunities

Heartbreak, it always makes me happy to see your posts…

Holyfield is a difficult one.

I think his best is hard to judge. At the very least though, absolute minimum, he was as past his best as Tyson was (I think he was further past it). The issue is, that like Duran, Holyfield dragged his career back from the brink on many occasions.

Some Leonard fans will argue that Leonard-Duran III is a notable victory for Ray because Duran had just beaten Barkley. There’s a logic to it until you start to look below the surface.

So, Holy looking finished after defeat by Bowe amazed us by winning the rematch. Then, after the wars with Riddick he amazed us again by beating Tyson. Then losing a close and keenly fought second fight with Lewis after the awful performance in the “draw” amazed us again.

I do agree with you that 3rd is too high. I myself think a prime Evander beats Lennox but that’s based on one close fight and a leap of faith. I wouldn’t expect to see him at number 3 on The Ring’s all-time list now.

Evander does suffer from inconsistency but on his day he was a special Heavyweight.

[keithmoonhangover]

Evander Holyfield

Was he a great fighter? yes he was! but bear this in mind:
In 1999 the RING listed Evander at #3 in their top HWs ever!
Now THAT is overated my friends!
Though the Tyson holyfield beat was younger than the Tyson Lewis beat, the Tyson of 1996 was still past his best... yet that victory seemed to put Evander into immortality... hence the RING rating him so highly.


Take a look at Evanders HW title fight record and its very patchy. 10-7 (and 2 draws)... Yes some of those losses came after his prime, yet it was only WHEN he lost to Lewis people were talking of the end of Evanders prime.... which takes his HW record to 9-3 (1 draw). Hardly dominant.

If anything Evander is the best connected HW in history, as soon as he lost title, being close to King, he got title shots again right away.
ie
Loses title to Bowe... gets a title rematch 2nd fight back
Loses title to Moorer... gets a title shot at Tyosn after going 2-1 in between
Loses his world title to Lewis.... gets put into a WBA fight againt Ruiz next fight!
Loses title to Ruiz... gets immediate rematch
Draws with Ruiz... gets another title shot at Byrd in his 2nd match back
Loses a WBO shot against Ibragimov.... gets another title shot next fight against Valuev

Its no wonder he won a HW title 4 times given his number of opportunities

Heartbreak, it always makes me happy to see your posts…

Holyfield is a difficult one.

I think his best is hard to judge. At the very least though, absolute minimum, he was as past his best as Tyson was (I think he was further past it). The issue is, that like Duran, Holyfield dragged his career back from the brink on many occasions.

Some Leonard fans will argue that Leonard-Duran III is a notable victory for Ray because Duran had just beaten Barkley. There’s a logic to it until you start to look below the surface.

So, Holy looking finished after defeat by Bowe amazed us by winning the rematch. Then, after the wars with Riddick he amazed us again by beating Tyson. Then losing a close and keenly fought second fight with Lewis after the awful performance in the “draw” amazed us again.

I do agree with you that 3rd is too high. I myself think a prime Evander beats Lennox but that’s based on one close fight and a leap of faith. I wouldn’t expect to see him at number 3 on The Ring’s all-time list now.

Evander does suffer from inconsistency but on his day he was a special Heavyweight.

Very well put Ezzard. Another quality post.

[Goodnight, Irene]

& once again, the sheer grandeur of your stupidity blinds me to the real depth of your insipid bait postings.

The only stupid one here is you...as usual. It was meant to be funny, not serious or to bait you. So remove that rather large item inserted in your rectum, that seems to hold a permanent place there, and that also seems to give you a false sense of your own expertise on...well everything.

If I was baiting you I would write a rather long post about how, based on the insecurity and angry defensive nature of most of your posts, that you should really look into getting laid sometime soon...by either a man or a woman, whichever toots your horn.

Seriously lighten up buddy. If you choose to mention your hatred for Ike in every possible thread you can (which Freud may think shows some sort of deep homosexual love for him), then don't be surprised if someone jokes around about Ike back with you. YOU mentioned his name in this thread, NOT anyone else. If you don't want to hear about him, then do not talk about him.

And for what it is worth, I would give a years salary to see you call Ike a "pudendum" to his face. I would even book your first class flight from that Island you have likely never left, just so you can be there when he steps out of prison. I am certain about 200 people in this forum would kick in some money as long as there is video evidence of your beating at the hands of Ike. Your combination of keyboard toughness and you constantly giving yourself an erection based on your own grammar "skills" just astounds me.

I do, however, apologize for writing an ironical post that was meant to be funny. I did not realize that a man with your grammar skills would not understand it's humorous tone, and that your deeply hidden homosexual love for Ike would upset you so much. I shall never respond to his name again...even though you bring him up at least once per week.

Funniest post of the year

I think this has reached the point now where I should consider starting a Support Group for Keith, JRC, Collins, & DBerry to help these clearly-tortured souls deal with the devastating impact random Internet postings (LOL) have had on their lives. These ignorant peons, who time & again have proudly put their lack of knowledge on display over a variety of topics (everything from Boxing to film to coffee, but stay tuned, it's an ever-expanding library), continue to pursue me from thread-to-thread, like masochists awaiting their next beating. It would never occur to you during your rabid keyboard-bashing, I take it, to ask, "If GI is as much a prick as we make him out to be, why doesn't he call everyone the terms he uses with me?"

Why don't you ask Ezzard, or DempseyFire, or even Saad (with whom I have disagreed, argued vehemently, & even fallen out with briefly), how many times I've insulted them & their views to the point I do yours? No, that's too difficult a concept for you to grasp, which is another symptom of why you're such imbeciles.

I really should start that Support Group. If only I cared about these tragic souls as much as they appear to care for me.

[Giancarlo]

Saad (with whom I have disagreed, argued vehemently, & even fallen out with briefly)

Tragic, GI, tragic.

Did you need a lot counselling to get over it, or just your usual 3 sessions on the couch?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I see our resident lapdog, Collie, has taken his latest turn. LOL.

[snoopbee]

HARRY WILLS

[Klee Gluckman]

I will don't think that we should call Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis or Tyson overated.

Bowe and Lewis beat every man they faced. And while Tyson gets a lot of flack he was 42-1 before he went to jail and his one loss to Douglas was a fight which he showed he may have won had he been dedicated. Holyfied lost to Moorer and Lewis lost to Macall. Holyfield also beat or drew with every man he faced until he was 38 years old the age in which Tyson and Lewis walked away from the game. These four fighters were far better than anything out there now and walk all walk through this division pretty easily.

I think the most overated heavyweight is one of the Klits, if they had a fight and Wlad won it Vitali would have no legacy whatsoever. If Vitai won Wladimir reign would look hollow, catch 22 I know but one of the Klits is only the second best heavyweight out there and the losers legacy would be forever tarnished.

[jrc26]

The only stupid one here is you...as usual. It was meant to be funny, not serious or to bait you. So remove that rather large item inserted in your rectum, that seems to hold a permanent place there, and that also seems to give you a false sense of your own expertise on...well everything.

If I was baiting you I would write a rather long post about how, based on the insecurity and angry defensive nature of most of your posts, that you should really look into getting laid sometime soon...by either a man or a woman, whichever toots your horn.

Seriously lighten up buddy. If you choose to mention your hatred for Ike in every possible thread you can (which Freud may think shows some sort of deep homosexual love for him), then don't be surprised if someone jokes around about Ike back with you. YOU mentioned his name in this thread, NOT anyone else. If you don't want to hear about him, then do not talk about him.

And for what it is worth, I would give a years salary to see you call Ike a "pudendum" to his face. I would even book your first class flight from that Island you have likely never left, just so you can be there when he steps out of prison. I am certain about 200 people in this forum would kick in some money as long as there is video evidence of your beating at the hands of Ike. Your combination of keyboard toughness and you constantly giving yourself an erection based on your own grammar "skills" just astounds me.

I do, however, apologize for writing an ironical post that was meant to be funny. I did not realize that a man with your grammar skills would not understand it's humorous tone, and that your deeply hidden homosexual love for Ike would upset you so much. I shall never respond to his name again...even though you bring him up at least once per week.

Funniest post of the year

I think this has reached the point now where I should consider starting a Support Group for Keith, JRC, Collins, & DBerry to help these clearly-tortured souls deal with the devastating impact random Internet postings (LOL) have had on their lives. These ignorant peons, who time & again have proudly put their lack of knowledge on display over a variety of topics (everything from Boxing to film to coffee, but stay tuned, it's an ever-expanding library), continue to pursue me from thread-to-thread, like masochists awaiting their next beating. It would never occur to you during your rabid keyboard-bashing, I take it, to ask, "If GI is as much a prick as we make him out to be, why doesn't he call everyone the terms he uses with me?"

Why don't you ask Ezzard, or DempseyFire, or even Saad (with whom I have disagreed, argued vehemently, & even fallen out with briefly), how many times I've insulted them & their views to the point I do yours? No, that's too difficult a concept for you to grasp, which is another symptom of why you're such imbeciles.

I really should start that Support Group. If only I cared about these tragic souls as much as they appear to care for me.

A "bait posting" would be one where I actually argued the greatness of Ike Ibeabuchi, not one where I clearly mock the level of his competition and, in turn, AM ACTUALLY AGREEING WITH YOU. Unfortunately, I did not consider the fact that you have a boarder line personality disorder and are unable to discern when someone is having some good-natured fun with you or whether someone is "baiting" you. Your instant reaction was "the sheer grandeur of your stupidity blinds me to the real depth of your insipid bait postings." Clearly you are the one who has trouble grasping concepts such as: sarcasm, personality, and humility (I had no idea someone could actually be proud of them self for their message board "skills" and "ability" to dish out "beatings" to people with grammar bombs). That must be a real feather in your cap when you are trying to pick up chicks.

I will admit, however, that I do enjoy reading many of your posts. You are like the Kamikaze pilot of Boxrec. You just fire off "joke" after "joke", never actually hitting your intended target with anything resembling humor. So in the end you fly what is left of your damaged ego in to the other people on here with gems like "No, that's too difficult a concept for you to grasp, which is another symptom of why you're such imbeciles", thus leaving your clearly lonely soul floating around in the middle of nowhere.

I do truly feel a tad sorry for you that you were picked on so much as a kid. It really does shine through with just about all of your posts. Always ready to attack.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Funniest post of the year

I think this has reached the point now where I should consider starting a Support Group for Keith, JRC, Collins, & DBerry to help these clearly-tortured souls deal with the devastating impact random Internet postings (LOL) have had on their lives. These ignorant peons, who time & again have proudly put their lack of knowledge on display over a variety of topics (everything from Boxing to film to coffee, but stay tuned, it's an ever-expanding library), continue to pursue me from thread-to-thread, like masochists awaiting their next beating. It would never occur to you during your rabid keyboard-bashing, I take it, to ask, "If GI is as much a prick as we make him out to be, why doesn't he call everyone the terms he uses with me?"

Why don't you ask Ezzard, or DempseyFire, or even Saad (with whom I have disagreed, argued vehemently, & even fallen out with briefly), how many times I've insulted them & their views to the point I do yours? No, that's too difficult a concept for you to grasp, which is another symptom of why you're such imbeciles.

I really should start that Support Group. If only I cared about these tragic souls as much as they appear to care for me.

A "bait posting" would be one where I actually argued the greatness of Ike Ibeabuchi, not one where I clearly mock the level of his competition and, in turn, AM ACTUALLY AGREEING WITH YOU. Unfortunately, I did not consider the fact that you have a boarder line personality disorder and are unable to discern when someone is having some good-natured fun with you or whether someone is "baiting" you. Your instant reaction was "the sheer grandeur of your stupidity blinds me to the real depth of your insipid bait postings." Clearly you are the one who has trouble grasping concepts such as: sarcasm, personality, and humility (I had no idea someone could actually be proud of them self for their message board "skills" and "ability" to dish out "beatings" to people with grammar bombs). That must be a real feather in your cap when you are trying to pick up chicks.

I will admit, however, that I do enjoy reading many of your posts. You are like the Kamikaze pilot of Boxrec. You just fire off "joke" after "joke", never actually hitting your intended target with anything resembling humor. So in the end you fly what is left of your damaged ego in to the other people on here with gems like "No, that's too difficult a concept for you to grasp, which is another symptom of why you're such imbeciles", thus leaving your clearly lonely soul floating around in the middle of nowhere.

I do truly feel a tad sorry for you that you were picked on so much as a kid. It really does shine through with just about all of your posts. Always ready to attack.

As does your complete absence of imagination or witin your postings. Picked on as a kid? Lonely soul? Really!? You're best dig is a dime-store psychology speech & a couple of antique gags about being picked on as a kid? & you & your kind feel I don't give you enough credit or respect. LMAO. While I actually assess what makes you & your band of the gifted such gooses, you can stick to generic insults from the book of Insults 101, & I in fact encourage you to --- weak though it may appear, you're not going to win an actual argument using the facts, much like the majority of your views on Boxing.

See you in the next thread you chase me down in

['Frilla]

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Who?

[Giancarlo]

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Who?

Some bloke Irene has the hots for I think.

[dempseyfire]

okay yall should probably stop cause this is getting ridiculous. has a thread about underrated heavies been made? cause there are definitely some underrated heavies from the '30s - '50s that not too many people talk about

Very true but most just assume they were a bunch of 'bums of the month' which is completly taken out of context. The 20s-40s was the golden age of boxing with incredible depth across weight classes, including the big men.

[Goodnight, Irene]

.

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Who?

Some bloke Irene has the hots for I think.

How would you like me to get you banned again, Collie, just like last time, under your old name. Remember? Good times.

['Frilla]

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Who?

Some bloke Irene has the hots for I think.

No one was supposed to reply to that, im pretty sure G,I knows the little game we play here on Boxrec, someone always replies with "who" when ever Ikes name is mentioned.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yes, I'm aware. Giancarlo, not so much.

[Jaywheel]

Who?

[Goodnight, Irene]

You may know him as Collins

[Goodnight, Irene]

I wonder if beating Tua & Byrd (& no one else) would be a gateway for another fighter to be matched up on forums everywhere with all the great Heavies in history?

I've seen people back Ibeabuchi to either win or barely lose to Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson, Lewis, & even the prime Foreman --- all more than once. He's the greatest fraud I've ever seen.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I wonder if beating Tua & Byrd (& no one else) would be a gateway for another fighter to be matched up on forums everywhere with all the great Heavies in history?

I've seen people back Ibeabuchi to either win or barely lose to Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson, Lewis, & even the prime Foreman --- all more than once. He's the greatest fraud I've ever seen.

I put Wlad in his category of fraud. Bounce into CS, I read yesterday that 25% of Boxing fans place him in the all time top 10.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I have no sympathy for you, friend. You walk into the gulags of BoxRec (Current Scene), you know the risks. To read the opinions there is to lose faith in humanity, question the worth of our species, & threaten your own sanity

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I have no sympathy for you, friend. You walk into the gulags of BoxRec (Current Scene), you know the risks. To read the opinions there is to lose faith in humanity, question the worth of our species, & threaten your own sanity

It was a welcome escape during the Pryor/Arguello is a mismatch arguments. Or pretty much any Elmer post, especially now that he is on a Tommy hearns was unbeatable at 154 but sucked terribly at any other weight crusade.