The birth of a legend

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 26 Jun 2005, 00:20

After watching tonights fight I can't help but sit in amazement. Gatti couldn't even touch Mayweather. I had Gatti 8 points down after 6.

I think Mayweather is now the best P4P. Before I thought Gatti was beatable but not without getting hurt but Mayweather embarassed him and made him look 2 levels below. Mayweather wasn't even marked.

If I was Hatton even though I'd love to see the fight, I'd run away from Mayweather and I think he actually plans to do that by the sound of the interviews. Both Hatton and Graham made sure to drop Cottos name in there, whoever would of thought that Cotto would be getting looked at as a safe option for Hatton.

As for Vivian Harris, that has to be upset of the year right there. Maussa won't last one defense. With Tszyu, Harris and Gatti all recently defeated, Cotto as WBO champ and Hatton and Mayweather looking to each other it might be a good time for Junior Witter to sneak in the back door and claim the WBA championship. Just goes to show you should never underestimate your opponent. I found it hilarious, he was hand picked to make Harris look good and and makes Harris look like an undertrained, over hyped fighter who runs out of steam quickly.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:16

Mayweather was superb last night, a true P4P masterclass. I think we were again reminded that although Gatti is a big draw in the USA he is not a fighter who can compete at the very highest level. Saying that you can't take anything away from Floyd, he was superb.

Vivian Harris - oh dear......

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:22

PBF falls into the "don't like but respect" camp for me. He looked good against a shopworn Gatti who does not look to have a lot left IMHO

I would pick PBF over Hatton right now, although I think it would be closer than people think.

As for Harris. Manny Steward should be f**king ashamed to send a fighter out in that condition. He was wheezing from the third against a truly limited fighter and, while the left that put him down was on the button, I think a lot of it was just pure exhaustion.

Slapsie

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:25

Witter is not rated in the WBA top 15 so he cant get a shot right away but since Kotelnik is 5th he will most likely get a ranking if he beats him. But I think M'Baye will get the shot first because its time for a mandatory shot to the title.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:27

Carlos Maussa may be Colombia's answer to Peter Oboh, similar ungainly style with awkward, wide shots delivered with heavy hands. Harris was in a shocking condition for a 12 round defence.

ps - Who put that tall ref in with Calderon and Verde? I think it was Randy Neumann, made the fighters look like little children

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 09:14

i was watching that fight with someone who didn't know how small the fighters were and he shouted 'fornicating hell, that referee must be a giant!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 09:15

Hesketh wrote:Carlos Maussa may be Colombia's answer to Peter Oboh, similar ungainly style with awkward, wide shots delivered with heavy hands. Harris was in a shocking condition for a 12 round defence.

ps - Who put that tall ref in with Calderon and Verde? I think it was Randy Neumann, made the fighters look like little children

oboh throws straight shots shots, maussa couldn't throw a straight shot if you strapped a ruler to his arm.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 09:15

Whilst I was dissapointed in Gatti's display (I think the KD in the first hurt him and he was weary from then on) I think some of the comments made be the team on Sky were rediculous.

Did I hear Paul Dempsey call him slow and limited?

Ian Darke use suggest the Gatti was old and slow? Fairl play, Jim Watt shot him down for that.

Just watch Gatti's last few fights, sure he looked slow next to Mayweather, but his hands speed has been blistering. He is an exceptional boxer and an exceptional fighter - criticise his opposition all you want they were decent fighters who have given fellow champions problems in the past.

I still say Gatti vs Hatton would be one hell of a fight (but would now JUST favour Ricky). Hatton vs Mayweather will be a one sided affair I'm afraid.

The guy looks strong at Light Welter and is at his fighting peak. I don't think I have ever seen Gatti out muscled like that, not even against Micky Ward.

It was one of the best displays I have ever seen, please do not labell Gatti as limited, Sky. Just remember the praise you were giving him in January.

Gatti at 147 will be interesting, he has fought there before and looked strong - I wouldn't right him off at all, just Mayweather is a different class almost to any boxer P4P.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 26 Jun 2005, 09:21

jamesmcdonnell wrote:oboh throws straight shots shots, maussa couldn't throw a straight shot if you strapped a ruler to his arm.

LOL. You might be right there, I can't remember correctly due to the many years that pass between Oboh fights. But there was definitely something about Maussa's awkward style and heavy hands that reminded me of Britain's forgotten light-heavyweight titlist.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 09:29

i know what it was. like Oboh he looks like an arm puncher, but he just keeps on throwing and hurts you.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 09:30

Maussa is poor in my opinion, struggling to think off as big an upset really - Tyson vs Douglas obviously but the gulf in skills between these two were huge both on paper and in reality. What was Harris' training like.

Eamomn Magee, Junior Witter - you want a pay day with Ricky? Go after Maussa and lets get an all UK unification fight.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 26 Jun 2005, 10:42

stujones wrote:He is an exceptional boxer and an exceptional fighter.

Don't let your heart rule your head on this one Stu. Gatti is neither of the above, as his various defeats testify. To put it bluntly, an exceptional boxer or fighter wouldn't be involved in life and death struggles with the Micky Wards of this world.
Mayweather on the other hand...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 10:55

Deserter wrote:
stujones wrote:He is an exceptional boxer and an exceptional fighter.
Don't let your heart rule your head on this one Stu. Gatti is neither of the above, as his various defeats testify. To put it bluntly, an exceptional boxer or fighter wouldn't be involved in life and death struggles with the Micky Wards of this world.
Mayweather on the other hand...

1 life and death struggle, 1 easy win and 1 win which would have been even easier but for injury.

He'd learned from the first Ward fight.

Gatti beat Ward the second time far easier than Zab Judah did. He would have repeated the feat in the third fight but for the fact his hand was gone.

Look at the WINS he has also, I don't want to look at the defeats he had EIGHT years ago - he is a different fighter now.

Look at the guys on Leija's record, look at the wins and the losses - only Moseley and Oscar have done a similar number to him as Gatti. Okay, they were more convincing, but Azumah Nelson, Gabe Reulas, Juan Lazcano AND Kostya Tszyu were not as convincing as Gatti in the manner of the win.

I liked the guy who outclassed Tracy Harris Patterson in the rematch - that resembled the Gatti of the last couple of years. The Gatti who lost to Robinson and Manfredy isn't the best version of him.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 11:03

Stu, i'm surprised at you, Leija was what 38 when he fought Gatti, that's a piss poor comparison and you know it, christ, you might as well say Berbick was an awesome fighter for dominating ali!

Mosley fight 1998
Nelson 1996
DLH 1995.

Do i make my point?

leija retired immediately after the bout with Gatti, I think that says it all...

Also, those losses were at lightweight and super featherweight.

Gatti was a B class fighter, too good for non world class opponents, but floyd is on the path to all time greatness.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 11:17

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Stu, i'm surprised at you, Leija was what 38 when he fought Gatti, that's a piss poor comparison and you know it, christ, you might as well say Berbick was an awesome fighter for dominating ali!

Mosley fight 1998
Nelson 1996
DLH 1995.

Do i make my point?

leija retired immediately after the bout with Gatti, I think that says it all...

Also, those losses were at lightweight and super featherweight.

Gatti was a B class fighter, too good for non world class opponents, but floyd is on the path to all time greatness.

Yes, but there is also

A good account against Kostya Tszyu in 2003

Followed by a 4 fight winning run, including Bojado.

Its a shame the depth between the champions and the challengers is quite a gap (except for Harris). We had Gatti, Cotto (possible future all time great), Tszyu (greatness secured) then Mayweather and Hatton. Below them there is quite a gap. I would say the 2005 version of Leija featured high on the next list (with Witter). Who could have Gatti have fought that you could have called him an A- level fighter or put him in the P4P bracket without a unification (as none of the other fighters have unified).

And since when has a fighters retirment signalled a massive detoriation - if Kostya retires does that diminish Hatton's win. Leija was coming off a career best WIN with a big thread on here saying he deserves his chance now (with alot of poster applauding him).

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 26 Jun 2005, 11:20

Say what you want about Mayweather, but he did what he had to do, and in exactly the fashion he said he was gonna do it.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 11:25

come on mate, leija had been on the skids for years, beating up bojado is one thing but fighting world class fighters is another. Yes he gave a good account against tszyu, but he was stopped, it wasn't a close points loss, he got beat up and quit.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 11:37

jamesmcdonnell wrote:come on mate, leija had been on the skids for years, beating up bojado is one thing but fighting world class fighters is another. Yes he gave a good account against tszyu, but he was stopped, it wasn't a close points loss, he got beat up and quit.

We will agree to disagree there, Leija was moving well vs Gatti, Tszyu and Bojado so I don't think he had been on the skids for years. Yes, not good enough to beat (or even compete) with Mayweather and too small for the rest of the major champions, although I geniunally think he would have beaten Harris and given the Mitchell that struggled with N'dou one tough contest.

Like I said, its just a shame there was a fighter out there who was undoubtely world class, but not all time great class, that could have proved or disproved how good the Gatti with Buddy McGirt in charge was.

People will draw on his defeats vs Ward and DLH as evidence but I say they were too close into McGirt's reign. DLH is an all time great and vs Ward (a fight I thought Gatti won) he did go back into old habbits which I believe he learned from for fights 2 and 3 and did the job on Ward I expect elite fighters to do.

These unification matches were impossible to do (as none of them have unified) and somehow Gatti vs Hatton was never even discussed. So as I said who could have Gatti fought to dispell the evidence that he was a B level fighter.

Mbaye,

Abdullaev

Leija

Dorrin

Sparaforda

Witter - possibly, but it wouldn't sell

N'dou

Mike No Joke Stewart

Tackie

Urkal?

Who?

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 26 Jun 2005, 11:43

I know allegedly claimed to have offered Gatti 3 million to fight Hatton after he beat Dorin and Gatti refused. Not sure how much truth there is in that though.

states · Post by **states** » 26 Jun 2005, 12:08

I think the Gatti fight everyone is forgetting is the Branco affair. He certainly didn't look elite there: Beaten to the punch all night, even before he hurt his hand, and could have been in real trouble if the Italian had any sort of a dig.

Amazing performance from Mayweather, totally flawless. But Gatti has always been a level below him for me.

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 26 Jun 2005, 12:42

Amazing stuff from mayweather who for me has never come close to losing. Whatever u say about gatti's level I m getting the feeling mayweather has the ability to dominate anyone and it reminds me of roy jones a few years back when everyone said he was fighting nobodies because he was dominating his opponents so much. Reality is he was and mayweather is just too good. Having said that hatton would pose more problems for mayweather than gatti as he is faster at getting into punching range.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 13:07

black panther wrote:Amazing stuff from mayweather who for me has never come close to losing. Whatever u say about gatti's level I m getting the feeling mayweather has the ability to dominate anyone and it reminds me of roy jones a few years back when everyone said he was fighting nobodies because he was dominating his opponents so much. Reality is he was and mayweather is just too good. Having said that hatton would pose more problems for mayweather than gatti as he is faster at getting into punching range.

Good post.

I like the comparison with Roy Jones, its a shame Sky completely forgot he existed in the post fight analysis. Nicky called him a talent that only comes once every twenty years - ummm Roy Jones.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 13:21

I seem to recall piper mentioning Jones Jr, I'm sure he said something like 'every 20-30 years , Robinson, Leonard, Jones Jr,'

To be honest, technically, Floyd is better than Roy in any case, he actually does use more of a traditional defence, rather than leaving the left hand by his hip all the time.

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 26 Jun 2005, 13:47

The only flaw in Mayweather was when he was crying at the end. It showed he was human! That was one of the best performances i have seen in a long time. THE Master boxer, although Hatton is no Gatti, i would be very worried for Ricky where a fight to come off.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 26 Jun 2005, 13:51

Neri1983 wrote:....i would be very worried for Ricky where a fight to come off.

I feel pretty confident it won't, or certainly not in the foreseeable future. Frankie W has not carefully groomed Hatton to beat the No 1 guy only to immediately pitch him in with a talent like Mayweather.