Dempsey - Lewis

[Lenny]

I don’t believe Lewis had a china chin. He could be hurt and he could be KO’d. The main issue is that on the rare occasion he did get put down he didn’t get up. Probably had poor recuperation.

It is a strange one for me, both time Lewis was put down, he did get back up. Sure he didn't really know where he was but you could argue that Larry Holmes had been aloud to continue in just as bad a condition, rode out the danger and won a couple of times. It's one of the main factors that gets him rated much higher on all time lists than Lewis.

Lewis did recover well against Briggs and took some flush shots against some heavy hitters without falling. I'm not saying he would have got up to win especially in the Rahman fight as I think he was exhausted, but he wasn't from an era when fighters were given the chance.

So basically i'm saying, fighters like Larry Holmes being put down like they were in modern day fights would most likely have been stopped, so to hold it against another guy in a different era seems wrong. And this is why comparing fighters from different eras is a bit of a pointless (if fun) exercise (especially when we are talking 70/80)

[Ezzard]

I don’t believe Lewis had a china chin. He could be hurt and he could be KO’d. The main issue is that on the rare occasion he did get put down he didn’t get up. Probably had poor recuperation.

It is a strange one for me, both time Lewis was put down, he did get back up. Sure he didn't really know where he was but you could argue that Larry Holmes had been aloud to continue in just as bad a condition, rode out the danger and won a couple of times. It's one of the main factors that gets him rated much higher on all time lists than Lewis.

Lewis did recover well against Briggs and took some flush shots against some heavy hitters without falling. I'm not saying he would have got up to win especially in the Rahman fight as I think he was exhausted, but he wasn't from an era when fighters were given the chance.

So basically i'm saying, fighters like Larry Holmes being put down like they were in modern day fights would most likely have been stopped, so to hold it against another guy in a different era seems wrong. And this is why comparing fighters from different eras is a bit of a pointless (if fun) exercise (especially when we are talking 70/80)

You’re right, Lenny.

Also as shown in Dempsey versus Willard way back in the day you had to obliterate a man before the ref would step in.

I think the Rahman stoppage was fair enough but the McCall stoppage was too soon. Lewis deserved the chance to recover in that one.

It’s a great point about Holmes though. He could have been stopped as could Ali against Frazier. Similarly Louis looked out on his feet for long periods of the first Schmeling fight but was eventually KO’d.

I agree on your point about different eras. I put this fight forward as a way of discussing the differences.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I must be remembering it wrongly, but I thought Rahman felled Lewis for the count (a count the Lewis camp disputed)?

[Jaywheel]

I must be remembering it wrongly, but I thought Rahman felled Lewis for the count (a count the Lewis camp disputed)?

Lewis was finished against Rahman. 2 minutes after he got back up, he's like ''I'm not the champ anymore?'' Concussed. We saw the same thing when Camacho jr was koed by Lemieux recently. Gets up and doesn't berlieve that he was ko'ed. Still thinking the fight has yet to start.

[Brett Paul Dunbar]

I'm going to go against my normal picks and give Dempsey the slight edge over 15. Lewis would stand a better chance of holding out for a points win over 12, but as hes never done 15 it may tell.
Also Dempsey is a one off amongst the old timers, and smaller heavyweights. He was a savage fighter in his peak, with great power, and a vicious streak. Its possible that he could pulverise Lewis. Dempsey would have a much better chance than other smaller guys of getting inside Lewis's long reach and doing some real damage.

Actually Lewis might have the edge on stamina. Even if you ignore the fact that Dempsey didn't believe he could manage more than ten against Tunney; he was rather past his best by then. Dempsey only went past ten rounds on two occasions, a twelfth round KO of Bill Brennan and a fifteen round points win over Tommy Gibbons. Lewis went past ten on five occasions, one draw (Evander Holyfield I) and four points wins (Tony Tucker, Zeljko Mavrovic, Evander Holyfield II, David Tua). There is no real reason to think Lewis couldn't have trained for fifteen if that had been necessary.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'm going to go against my normal picks and give Dempsey the slight edge over 15. Lewis would stand a better chance of holding out for a points win over 12, but as hes never done 15 it may tell.
Also Dempsey is a one off amongst the old timers, and smaller heavyweights. He was a savage fighter in his peak, with great power, and a vicious streak. Its possible that he could pulverise Lewis. Dempsey would have a much better chance than other smaller guys of getting inside Lewis's long reach and doing some real damage.

Actually Lewis might have the edge on stamina. Even if you ignore the fact that Dempsey didn't believe he could manage more than ten against Tunney; he was rather past his best by then. Dempsey only went past ten rounds on two occasions, a twelfth round KO of Bill Brennan and a fifteen round points win over Tommy Gibbons. Lewis went past ten on five occasions, one draw (Evander Holyfield I) and four points wins (Tony Tucker, Zeljko Mavrovic, Evander Holyfield II, David Tua). There is no real reason to think Lewis couldn't have trained for fifteen if that had been necessary.

[Brutu]

Possibly one would have to factor in this,
If Lennox Lewis had been born in the same year as Jack Dempsey(1895),
he would have stood about 6 ft 2 at most if he was 25 yrs old in 1920.
If Jack Dempsey had been born in 1965(Lennox Lewis birthday)
Dempsey would have stood 6 feet 4 inches tall when he would be 25 in 1990,
thanks to the evolution of health,nutrients,clean living in USA since 1995.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Possibly one would have to factor in this,
If Lennox Lewis had been born in the same year as Jack Dempsey(1895),
he would have stood about 6 ft 2 at most if he was 25 yrs old in 1920.
If Jack Dempsey had been born in 1965(Lennox Lewis birthday)
Dempsey would have stood 6 feet 4 inches tall when he would be 25 in 1990,
thanks to the evolution of health,nutrients,clean living in USA since 1995.

I'm not bothered by it, to be honest. I'm ready to put them in the ring as-is & back Dempsey. In this instance, Speed >>> Size, IMO.

[Jaywheel]

I'm going to go against my normal picks and give Dempsey the slight edge over 15. Lewis would stand a better chance of holding out for a points win over 12, but as hes never done 15 it may tell.
Also Dempsey is a one off amongst the old timers, and smaller heavyweights. He was a savage fighter in his peak, with great power, and a vicious streak. Its possible that he could pulverise Lewis. Dempsey would have a much better chance than other smaller guys of getting inside Lewis's long reach and doing some real damage.

Actually Lewis might have the edge on stamina. Even if you ignore the fact that Dempsey didn't believe he could manage more than ten against Tunney; he was rather past his best by then. Dempsey only went past ten rounds on two occasions, a twelfth round KO of Bill Brennan and a fifteen round points win over Tommy Gibbons. Lewis went past ten on five occasions, one draw (Evander Holyfield I) and four points wins (Tony Tucker, Zeljko Mavrovic, Evander Holyfield II, David Tua). There is no real reason to think Lewis couldn't have trained for fifteen if that had been necessary.

Rick James might even say Bitch pleeaaaase...

[Brute]

Holmes beat Norton for the WBC title and I believe he was a superior fighter to Weaver, who won the vacant WBA title after Ali retired. Holmes was unbeaten for a further seven years.

I think you could call him a World Champion.

[dempseyfire]

Actually Lewis might have the edge on stamina. Even if you ignore the fact that Dempsey didn't believe he could manage more than ten against Tunney; he was rather past his best by then. Dempsey only went past ten rounds on two occasions, a twelfth round KO of Bill Brennan and a fifteen round points win over Tommy Gibbons. Lewis went past ten on five occasions, one draw (Evander Holyfield I) and four points wins (Tony Tucker, Zeljko Mavrovic, Evander Holyfield II, David Tua). There is no real reason to think Lewis couldn't have trained for fifteen if that had been necessary.

Rick James might even say Bitch pleeaaaase...

Exactly. Stamina is definitely a weakness on Lennox's part. . .esp. relatively compared to other HW champions. Faded late many times, vs Mercer, Tucker, Holyfield (II) etc. When forced to fight at a faster pace than he wanted the bug guy would start huffing and puffing big time. The pace Dempsey kept up vs Brennan and Gibbons alone shows a significant edge in fight stamina here,