OSCAR PUSSING OUT

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2005, 07:39

Oscar looks like he is wimping out. His HITLIST for 06 includes Vargas (shot), Trinidad (shot, retired), Winky, who at least will kick oscar's arse.

What a bunch of shite, he's only fighting Vargas and Trinidad because he knows that they are grudge fights, both guys are a shell of what they were, and he's already fucked Vargas up, what's the point?

He's made it clear he's not interested in Mayweather, which sucks, Mayweather is the smaller guy, and it is the best fight out there for fans.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 29 Jun 2005, 07:40

Sorry but I really dont see how anyone can accuse him of pussing out name 1 fighter with a CV as good as his over the last decade.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2005, 07:45

Oh I agree he has a very good CV, however, what he is doing now is pretty cynical, fighting Trinidad and Vargas for paydays when he knows they are shot to shite.

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 29 Jun 2005, 07:45

Just call it a day Oscar, i mean what else has he to prove, he aint gunna need the money, he surely has achieved hall of fame status, why not just keep to the promoting side of boxing ???

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 29 Jun 2005, 07:46

nickd wrote:Sorry but I really dont see how anyone can accuse him of pussing out name 1 fighter with a CV as good as his over the last decade.

Yeah but around 99% carefully selected as being past their sell by date or smaller.

See above for a typical Oscar hit list.

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 29 Jun 2005, 07:47

You could argue that DLH is on the slide as well, if DLH took on the top names in their prime now I fear he'd get beaten would of been a different story years ago but I think he is doing the smart thing legacy wise.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 29 Jun 2005, 08:02

It proves what I always said: Oscar de la Tortilla-Kournikova is a Pussy

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 29 Jun 2005, 08:14

MightyWarrior wrote:
nickd wrote:Sorry but I really dont see how anyone can accuse him of pussing out name 1 fighter with a CV as good as his over the last decade.
Yeah but around 99% carefully selected as being past their sell by date or smaller.

See above for a typical Oscar hit list.

He's a six-weight champ but that just means that he flew into a division then out of it.

The guys he won his first titles from in each weight class weren't exactly the divisional kingpins at the time

Super-feather - Jimmy Bredahl -- Not great pedigree
Light - Jorge Paez -- Good win but Paez's best days were time and weight ago
Light-welter - JC Chavez -- Sliding
Welter - Pernell Whitaker -- A fraction of the man he was
Light-middle - Javier Casillejo -- Handy but limited
Middle - Felix Sturm -- Handy, but not the best, and needed kind judges...

DLH was a good, good boxer, but he's been VERY well managed.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 29 Jun 2005, 08:15

MightyWarrior wrote:
nickd wrote:Sorry but I really dont see how anyone can accuse him of pussing out name 1 fighter with a CV as good as his over the last decade.
Yeah but around 99% carefully selected as being past their sell by date or smaller.

See above for a typical Oscar hit list.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 29 Jun 2005, 08:17

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Oh I agree he has a very good CV, however, what he is doing now is pretty cynical, fighting Trinidad and Vargas for paydays when he knows they are shot to shite.

Mayweather and Judah etc are at 147 and below. Tito, Vargas, Wright will be 154-160 fights so I dont think he can be accused of dodging guys at 147. I doubt very much he can make that weight now whatever he says. Who else at 160 could he fight next year?

dbf · Post by **dbf** » 29 Jun 2005, 09:02

I agree Nick. I dont know, but have some people forgot that his last fight was against hopkins? The man is a beast at middle, and Dela Hoya is a welter/light middle at best. I dont care that he lost, by taking on hopkins in only his second fight at middle was good enough for me, not many fighters do that.

Hes mentioned Winky wright, hardly the most attractive proposisition but come on, fair play, he'll fght a guy who is in his prime and strong at the weight, be it middle or light middle.

Give Oscar some credit.

J · Post by J » 29 Jun 2005, 09:07

juat to tie on a couple of weights divs metioned above here and slightly away form oscar ive just read mayweather might fight Margherito Aug 12th at welter.
could be bollox but interesting that he should move up so quick.....chaisng a megafight with ODLH?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Jun 2005, 10:22

Harsh James,

Look at those fighters again.

Wright - Light Middle / Middle.

Vargas - Light Middle / Middle.

Trinidad - Light Middle / Middle.

Perhaps he has just realised that no way he can make Welter.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 29 Jun 2005, 10:42

But when you look at almost every great fighter from the past they have chosen their last few fights very carefully...so Oscar is no different.

Many favoured Vargas first time around, he is shop worn but so is De La Hoya...and Vargas is a few years younger.

Tito will always get PPV attention and like the above is just as shop worn.

Winky Wright is just a crazy fight for Oscar to take, he`d start a massive under-dog.

All these 140-147 fighters are calling for Oscar knowing they are in a no-lose situation where as Oscar would be in a no-win situation....could Oscar get to even welterweight??

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 29 Jun 2005, 11:59

Would you say the same to Wright, Ouma, Margarito etc for calling out a tired old DLH?

Its business FFS. DLH has usually been about the dollars. But for anyone to call him a pussy strikes me as absurd.

Whittaker, Chavez, Mosley, Trinidad, Vargas, Hopkins to name just six of the fighters he's faced.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 29 Jun 2005, 12:14

Oscar always went the easy route, even in his prime. He racked up his titles by beating up a variety of WBO "champs".

As for his tough fights -

Whittaker - well past his best, but still beat Oscar - who then ducked a rematch.

Chavez - An ancient Aztec mummy who Oscar waited years before facing.

Mosley - much smaller fighter who Oscar though he could beat up on ( wrong about that of course )

Trinidad - Fair enough: a real challenge. But he still manages to turn this superfight into one of the most disapointing of all time.

Vargas - Refused a fight until he'd been decimated by Trinidad, then shaken up in his comeback fight. Oscar knew the guys chin was GONE south.

Quartey - Knocked down twice in his previous fight, and clearly past his best. ( Oscar the master of timing it just right )

Hopkins - did he even try to win this fight, honestly? I'm sorry, but that image of a frustrated ODH, banging the canvas in frustration ( Damn, wish I could get up and go to war!! ) deserved an.........well, Oscar.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 29 Jun 2005, 12:43

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Oh I agree he has a very good CV, however, what he is doing now is pretty cynical, fighting Trinidad and Vargas for paydays when he knows they are shot to shite.

Yes - he should fight Ouma. Judah - Winky - Mayweather.

Oscar Tortilla strikes again!

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 29 Jun 2005, 12:44

MightyWarrior wrote:Oscar always went the easy route, even in his prime. He racked up his titles by beating up a variety of WBO "champs".

As for his tough fights -

Whittaker - well past his best, but still beat Oscar - who then ducked a rematch.

Chavez - An ancient Aztec mummy who Oscar waited years before facing.

Mosley - much smaller fighter who Oscar though he could beat up on ( wrong about that of course )

Trinidad - Fair enough: a real challenge. But he still manages to turn this superfight into one of the most disapointing of all time.

Vargas - Refused a fight until he'd been decimated by Trinidad, then shaken up in his comeback fight. Oscar knew the guys chin was GONE south.

Quartey - Knocked down twice in his previous fight, and clearly past his best. ( Oscar the master of timing it just right )

Hopkins - did he even try to win this fight, honestly? I'm sorry, but that image of a frustrated ODH, banging the canvas in frustration ( Damn, wish I could get up and go to war!! ) deserved an.........well, Oscar.

Oscar is an all time GRATE!. He GRATES me!

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 29 Jun 2005, 12:46

Coconut wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:
nickd wrote:Sorry but I really dont see how anyone can accuse him of pussing out name 1 fighter with a CV as good as his over the last decade.
Yeah but around 99% carefully selected as being past their sell by date or smaller.

See above for a typical Oscar hit list.

He's a six-weight champ but that just means that he flew into a division then out of it.

The guys he won his first titles from in each weight class weren't exactly the divisional kingpins at the time

Super-feather - Jimmy Bredahl -- Not great pedigree
Light - Jorge Paez -- Good win but Paez's best days were time and weight ago
Light-welter - JC Chavez -- Sliding
Welter - Pernell Whitaker -- A fraction of the man he was
Light-middle - Javier Casillejo -- Handy but limited
Middle - Felix Sturm -- Handy, but not the best, and needed kind judges...

DLH was a good, good boxer, but he's been VERY well managed.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 29 Jun 2005, 12:46

BubiScholz wrote:It proves what I always said: Oscar de la Tortilla-Kournikova is a Pussy

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 29 Jun 2005, 13:40

Most fighters try to make a fight when it suits them best. Ie Hatton waited a long time to step up when Tyuzu was old. Trinidad stayed away from slick boxers for a long time. Gatti was kept away from the top dogs for years. Did Lennox wait for Tyson to be old?

Oscars been carefully matched - his 2 130lb fights are a joke, he fought the weaker champs at 130-135 - but this was his development stage. He fought Charvez at 140 (Oscars best weight?) who surely then was what Tyuzu was prior to Hatton and he completely owned Charvez twice. Whitaker was past his best but he was still great and Oscar probably got a gift. He had close fights against the best fighters he faced and won some and lost some. Making him a good but not great champ at Welter and Light Middle.

Hes not in the near the same league as Leonard but I'd rate him above Kostya Tyuzu and Trinidad in recent times.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2005, 13:59

Hmm it's a hard one. Oscar never really dominated any division he was in. I also think his skills are a little overrated, great speed and offence, but his defence was never the greatest.

Whittaker was way over his best fighting weight, and was nowhere near what he was at his peak, and he gave oscar murders, Whittaker was probably his best at lightweight.

Oscar is a modern great, but Tszyu's domination of a single division is every big as impressive, he only lost once in his prime, and once at what was probably the end of his career.

Oscar's achievements are harder to guage because there were a lot more past it fighters. Chavez was a little farther gone than tszyu, he hadn't beaten anyone of Mitchell's calibre in a while and had a very long career behind him. Oscar was favourite going into the fight, hatton wasn't.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 29 Jun 2005, 15:09

Oscar is one of the greatest of the last decades...he took on almost everyone, won 6 titles, what the fornicate are you people bitching about? i don"t like the man very much because of all the singer and golden boy stuff but i like the warrior he was...If u criticize Oscar then u should do worse with about 95% of all active and retired champions...

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 29 Jun 2005, 17:52

Only three people I rate Oscar for fighting are Mosley (first time), Trinidad and Hopkins. The rest were past their sell by date or he won luckily...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jun 2005, 19:15

Raff The Frenchman wrote:Oscar is one of the greatest of the last decades...he took on almost everyone, won 6 titles, what the fornicate are you people bitching about? i don"t like the man very much because of all the singer and golden boy stuff but i like the warrior he was...If u criticize Oscar then u should do worse with about 95% of all active and retired champions...

wow 6 titles, including a WBO title against felix sturm, hardly a genuine middleweight champ, and he didn't even really win the fight.

multiple belts don't really impress me all that much, a fighter who dominates his division for a decade like hopkins, impresses me more. yes, Oscar won 6 titles, but with 4 major belts on the line that's not that impressive any more, had Oscar stuck around at LW and Welterweight instead of belt hopping, he'd have had a much harder time of it.

I respect oscar and do admire his credentials, but in todays era belt hopping has become a cheap way to adding titles.