The birth of a legend

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 14:02

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I seem to recall piper mentioning Jones Jr, I'm sure he said something like 'every 20-30 years , Robinson, Leonard, Jones Jr,'

To be honest, technically, Floyd is better than Roy in any case, he actually does use more of a traditional defence, rather than leaving the left hand by his hip all the time.

I will view again, but I am 99% certain it was just the first two he mentioned. Still a little bit of an over exageration, there have been lots of fighters in the last twenty years who could have lived with the two Sugar men talent wise. Not saying better, but in a similar category.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 26 Jun 2005, 14:40

stujones wrote:......there have been lots of fighters in the last twenty years who could have lived with the two Sugar men talent wise.

Exactly. Such as our own Joe Calzaghe for example, who featured so prominently in Sky's P4P ratings the other day............

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 14:47

Duran certainly deserved a mention, but I guess they are talking about a particular type of fighter, of which Robinson, Leonard, Jones Jr and Mayweather are perhaps the most obvious examples, slick, fast fighters who also had power, heart and incredible technique.

Floyd hasn't had to show heart yet, and like another man who didn't receive a mention, Pernell Whittaker, maybe never will have to in spades.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 15:05

Whittikar was the guy I was thinking off specifically, others aswell include Chavez, Lopez, Too Sharp Johnson (in his prime), Barrera, Moseley (for a breif period) Azumah Nelson and I would still say Oscar.

I am glad you mentioned the heart and balls - that does need to be tested before you can judge because if Tyson had retired after the first Bruno fight (or after the Spinks fight when the downward spiral began) then he would be considered skill wise.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 15:29

Roy Jones Jr never had to show any heart though, and that was always the knock on him. by the time he had slowed enough to be hittable, there wasn't enough there to tell if he had heart or not.

Ray Leonard was so good because he showed early in his career that he could rebound from adversity to pull out a win, and showed he could hang tough with a macho man like Duran, even though he lost.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 26 Jun 2005, 15:46

Mayweather is 28, and hasn't taken much damage...

He will be prime for atleast another 4 years...

Oh man, just thinking about all the great fights that could be made makes me gleam.

And unlike Roy Jones, Mayweather won't be avoiding said fights.

Mayweather > Jones

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 15:46

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Roy Jones Jr never had to show any heart though, and that was always the knock on him. by the time he had slowed enough to be hittable, there wasn't enough there to tell if he had heart or not.

Ray Leonard was so good because he showed early in his career that he could rebound from adversity to pull out a win, and showed he could hang tough with a macho man like Duran, even though he lost.

I actually thought Roy showed a fair amount of heart in the first fight with Tarver - he was clearly out of sorts and exhausted but won the 11th and 12th to nick the decision on my card.

I'm not to sure what the argument is on your post James, Mayweather hasn't shown if he has the heart yet either and at the moment the comparisons with Ray Leonard are flawed (as you pointed out with RJJ).

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 26 Jun 2005, 15:51

I have a feeling Mayweather will not be tested until he puts himself at a significant natural weight disadvantage. I thought that might come at 140, but after last night I'm not so sure.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 26 Jun 2005, 15:59

Hesketh wrote:I have a feeling Mayweather will not be tested until he puts himself at a significant natural weight disadvantage. I thought that might come at 140, but after last night I'm not so sure.

Mayweather vs Hopkins. 8)

Oh man that would rock.

Would be the biggest boxing event in decades.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 26 Jun 2005, 16:07

Is Witter the mandatory for Mayweather now when he beat N'dou?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 16:19

Tantum wrote:
Hesketh wrote:I have a feeling Mayweather will not be tested until he puts himself at a significant natural weight disadvantage. I thought that might come at 140, but after last night I'm not so sure.
Mayweather vs Hopkins. 8)

Oh man that would rock.

Would be the biggest boxing event in decades.

I don't think that is likely to happen, mayweather is a welterweight at best, and I don't see either man going for that matchup. In a few years Mayweather might be a LM, but middleweight would be a ways off.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 26 Jun 2005, 16:25

Fighters years ago used to have fights like this all the time.

:P

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 16:30

Hopkins vs Mayweather will never happen, no chance - it wouldn't be the biggest fight for him (I don't even think the Boxing fans would like it cause Hopkins will massacre him).

The biggest fight for Mayweather IS a distinct possibility.

Both are the only fighters to score inside the half way mark wins over Arturo Gatti (scoring KD's in the first).

Both are Olympic Medalists

Both are good looking.

Both are master boxers

The Pretty Boy vs The Golden Boy.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 26 Jun 2005, 16:33

stujones wrote:The Pretty Boy vs The Golden Boy.

F*ck me, that is the obvious fight isn't it? Oscar has already declared his desire to move down the divisions again, and a meeting at 147 would have HBO executives struggling to conceal their boners. You'd have to fancy Mayweather's chances pretty strongly though.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 16:47

Hesketh wrote:
stujones wrote:The Pretty Boy vs The Golden Boy.
F*ck me, that is the obvious fight isn't it? Oscar has already declared his desire to move down the divisions again, and a meeting at 147 would have HBO executives struggling to conceal their boners. You'd have to fancy Mayweather's chances pretty strongly though.

Mayweather said he would fight and beat him around the time he was struggling to impress at lightweight (the Castillo / Sosa fights). Everyone pissed themselves at those comments and that suggestion.

Not laughing now, are they.

It would be a great fight and a tough one to call, don't write off Oscar. If he does come back at all it will show his desire.

PS - Obvious typo in my previous post I meant to say Hopkins vs Mayweather wouldn't be his biggest fight. This one would be.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 17:09

I reckon Mayweather is already better than Oscar ever was, technically he shits all over Oscar, who for most of his career went into contests with pretty big physical advantages. mayweather doesn't go into fights outweighing opponents by 10-15 lbs on fight night.

Oscar is a great fighter and a future hall of famer, but Mayweather is differnt gravy, he looks to be on track for the Leonard, Duran, Whittaker level.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 26 Jun 2005, 18:11

Hesketh wrote:
stujones wrote:The Pretty Boy vs The Golden Boy.
F*ck me, that is the obvious fight isn't it? Oscar has already declared his desire to move down the divisions again, and a meeting at 147 would have HBO executives struggling to conceal their boners. You'd have to fancy Mayweather's chances pretty strongly though.

ODH? Is he still fighting?

Don't see much fascination in this really; Oscar is more of a name now than a fighter (although obviously excellent). Definitely a television network dream fight but I have no inclination to see it.

As for Mayweather v Hopkins; thankfully it would never happen. Whenever I see Hopkins fight I can't help but think of Sven Ottke...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jun 2005, 18:20

Oscar is slated to return in September on the undercard of Barerra vs Peden (which is possibly the most one sided looking unification fight in history).

All this according to this sites schedules.

Matchfixer.

A big if I know, but if DLH signs to fight Mayweather at 147 (signaling his intentions of making the weight) then are seriously telling me you don't intend to watch it? Why? you think it will be a mismatch? Which way do you think it will be the mismatch cause for me you could argue it a mismatch either way.

I think it will be a cracker of an occasion and a close fight to call, it will probably not be a fight of the year but I think alot of different scenerio's as to how the fight will transpire.

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 26 Jun 2005, 19:09

I have no interest in that fight either, I think for name value he is the best opponent available but for providing Mayweather with a challenge he is far from the best fight out there. I'd still watch it since I watch most fights but it wouldn't be in the top 3 of fights I'd like to see Mayweather involved in. I think the last of DLHs competitive self hit the canvas against Hopkins.
There are still one or two pay days in the Light Welter division before he looks at that anyway.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 26 Jun 2005, 20:27

Floyd does look a bit like Leonard too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Jun 2005, 20:30

Yes, he does bear more than a passing resemblance, the grin is very reminiscent of Leonard.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 26 Jun 2005, 20:48

They do have the same grin!

He's a clone accept he's a lighter and smaller version.

J · Post by J » 27 Jun 2005, 07:22

TOP TOP PERFROMANCE BY MAYWEATHER, what with my prediction of a late gatti win and the lions i had a piss poor weekend predictions wise, even rob fornicating calloway beat Bob M, ive relinquished my prediction title quicker than Maussa will relinquish the WBA belt

that fight as i said to James at the weekend, was like watching two drunks fight ove ra bottle of meths.

Wonder where those guys who reckon Harris would maul RH are now?

gone strangely quiet.

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 28 Jun 2005, 20:27

Mayweather really is a wonder. What a talent, and what an awesome display against Gatti. My friend watched it with me and was seeing Mayweather for the first time. He was dumbstruck. You get a supertalent every decade or so - Leonard in the 70s/80s, Roy Jones Jr in the 90s and now Mayweather.

I'd love to see a fight with Zab Judah. Might even happen. DLH probably won't, but then DLH would fancy his chances against a smaller guy, while Floyd would take the test to prove his greatness.

Hatton should forget about Floyd Mayweather.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 29 Jun 2005, 17:58

stujones wrote:Matchfixer.

A big if I know, but if DLH signs to fight Mayweather at 147 (signaling his intentions of making the weight) then are seriously telling me you don't intend to watch it? Why? you think it will be a mismatch? Which way do you think it will be the mismatch cause for me you could argue it a mismatch either way.

I think it will be a cracker of an occasion and a close fight to call, it will probably not be a fight of the year but I think alot of different scenerio's as to how the fight will transpire.

The reason is that ODH is nearing the end of his career and in slight decline and the fight wouldn't really add to clarifying the future of the LW division; too much of a one off.

However, I do agree though that combining PBFs skills with the natural size difference does make for an exciting fight.