Jack The Giant Killer, Slayer of Ogres

[HomicideHenry]

Alot of people consider the chances of Jack Dempsey being champion today as being very slim, for the reason that the heavyweights are bigger than they were in his era. To me as a fan and follower of the sport, I never understood this logic when it came to Dempsey as he was known as a dethroner of big men. Consider this list of giants, behemoths, monsters that he laid to rest: Fred Fulton, Carl Morris, Gunboat Smith, Jess Willard, Luis Firpo; throw in the fact that he kayoed 7'2" prospect Ben Wray in an exhibition bout inside 60 seconds, and that 'Big' Bill Tate was his sparring partner, I think we can easily see Dempsey beating men of the average height and weight of 6'5" and 240 pounds with relative ease. It was the quick movers, smaller tacticians, who gave Dempsey the most trouble and fits in the ring, rarely the big men.

Think about it. Does Carnera stand a chance of beating him? Does Nicolai Valuev? Does Chris Arreola? Does Jose Santo? With the exception of possibly Lennox Lewis, there is NOBODY in the field of giants (men over 6'4" and 240) who is a genuine odds maker favorite or who breaks at even odds with Jack Dempsey. So why all the fuss over size, when it never was an issue for him then when the majority of his kayo victims were over 200 pounds?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Alot of people consider the chances of Jack Dempsey being champion today as being very slim, for the reason that the heavyweights are bigger than they were in his era. To me as a fan and follower of the sport, I never understood this logic when it came to Dempsey as he was known as a dethroner of big men. Consider this list of giants, behemoths, monsters that he laid to rest: Fred Fulton, Carl Morris, Gunboat Smith, Jess Willard, Luis Firpo; throw in the fact that he kayoed 7'2" prospect Ben Wray in an exhibition bout inside 60 seconds, and that 'Big' Bill Tate was his sparring partner, I think we can easily see Dempsey beating men of the average height and weight of 6'5" and 240 pounds with relative ease. It was the quick movers, smaller tacticians, who gave Dempsey the most trouble and fits in the ring, rarely the big men.

Think about it. Does Carnera stand a chance of beating him? Does Nicolai Valuev? Does Chris Arreola? Does Jose Santo? With the exception of possibly Lennox Lewis, there is NOBODY in the field of giants (men over 6'4" and 240) who is a genuine odds maker favorite or who breaks at even odds with Jack Dempsey. So why all the fuss over size, when it never was an issue for him then when the majority of his kayo victims were over 200 pounds?

A lot of people do think that --- & a lot of people, simply put, are morons. It's not even as though it is a field of good big men --- 90% of them are sub-standard to average in ability, & a good chunk of that percentage is further hampered by massive excess weight, usually in the form of either too much muscle or, more commonly, outright fat.

Dempsey flattens anyone in the division today, current Klitschkos included.

[dempseyfire]

Something people don't realize is that the 'White Hope' era had more super-sized heavyweights than any era prior to the current one, and now you still have a field dominated mostly by natural cruisers with the Klitschkos (and possibly Helenius in the post K-brother era) being the lone exceptions.

Jess Willard, Luther McCarty, Fred Fulton, Bill Tate, Carl Morris, Dan Daily, Al Palzar, Jim Stewart, Ed Martin . . .all very big heavyweights, with some very athletic and skilled as well.

The way to get inside on a taller fighter is FOOTSPEED. I don't know why anyone is surprised the Klitschkos can dominate a bunch of overweight plodders with cement shoes . . even fat Eddie Chambers, who is considered mr. slickster nowadays, fights mostly completly flatfooted with a basic hands-high guard . . .pathetic. Jess Willard and Fred Fulton would be having a field day with these clowns as well but knocking them out quicker.

[Ric]

[crusader]

Alot of people consider the chances of Jack Dempsey being champion today as being very slim, for the reason that the heavyweights are bigger than they were in his era. To me as a fan and follower of the sport, I never understood this logic when it came to Dempsey as he was known as a dethroner of big men. Consider this list of giants, behemoths, monsters that he laid to rest: Fred Fulton, Carl Morris, Gunboat Smith, Jess Willard, Luis Firpo; throw in the fact that he kayoed 7'2" prospect Ben Wray in an exhibition bout inside 60 seconds, and that 'Big' Bill Tate was his sparring partner, I think we can easily see Dempsey beating men of the average height and weight of 6'5" and 240 pounds with relative ease. It was the quick movers, smaller tacticians, who gave Dempsey the most trouble and fits in the ring, rarely the big men.

Think about it. Does Carnera stand a chance of beating him? Does Nicolai Valuev? Does Chris Arreola? Does Jose Santo? With the exception of possibly Lennox Lewis, there is NOBODY in the field of giants (men over 6'4" and 240) who is a genuine odds maker favorite or who breaks at even odds with Jack Dempsey. So why all the fuss over size, when it never was an issue for him then when the majority of his kayo victims were over 200 pounds?

Fulton weighed in at 208 when he fought Dempsey, which is just 3 pounds above the CW limit today.
Firpo was 6'2.5" and weighed 216 when he fought Dempsey
Smith was 6'2" and weighed 178 when he fought Dempsey in 1918, just 3 pounds above the LHW limit today and 12 pounds lighter than Dempsey.
Morris weighed 220 and 226 the last two times he fought Dempsey

Four of the opponents you have listed were hardly giants by today's standards. Also, Wray only had 4 bouts when he fought Dempsey, so I'm not sure you should look too much into that particular result. I understand that many heavyweights are overweight today, but if the 6'5" 240 pound fighter you are talking about is in shape, most of your examples are still giving up significant size. That may be one reason why certain people think that Dempsey would have problems with the modern big men who are both huge and in shape.

All that aside, I'm not sure why you're coming to the conclusion that a lot of people don't think Dempsey could be a champ today. I think a lot of people would give Dempsey a very good chance against David Haye. Dempsey probably wouldn't be so heavily favoured against the Klitschkos, but I'm sure many people would give him a good shot of beating them as well—they have just as many critics as supporters. When we get into the unpleasant realm of contenders like Povetkin, Chagaev, Adamek, Arreola, etc. and title holders of the recent past such as Ruiz, Liakhovich, Briggs, and Ibragimov I have no doubts that most people would pick Dempsey over these guys. I think Lewis would probably be favoured to beat Dempsey. A lot of people would look at that match as a great big man vs a great little man.