Enzo Calzaghe Legacy

[kamicazze]

Given how nathan cleverley has just been declared world champ it may be worth discussing about enzo's legacy as a trainer. Much was said about him being unable to train anyone but joe but heres a list of fighters he trained
Joe Calzaghe - Unbeaten world champ
Gavin Rees - World Champ at one weight, goes on to be prizefighter champ and british lightweight champ
Enzo Maccarinelli - Has his best years under enzo, World champ
Bradley Pryce - Commonwealth champion, good talent
Gary Lockett - WBU Champion, last guy to beat ryan rhoded. Also World title challenger
Nathan Cleverley - Goes on to be world champion
Jamie Arthur - Went on to be commonwealth champion
Tony Doherty - Welsh champion, real underachiever
Hari Miles - Welsh title challenger
James todd - IBA title challenger
Kerry Hope - good record, fringe title contender
Chris Evangelou - Looks to be a very very good prospect.
Mohammed Nasir - Would have been a good pro had he not failed brain scan
Paul Samuels - Good domestic fighter, welsh title and ibf intercontinental championship

[Eraserhead]

Given how nathan cleverley has just been declared world champ it may be worth discussing about enzo's legacy as a trainer. Much was said about him being unable to train anyone but joe but heres a list of fighters he trained
Joe Calzaghe - Unbeaten world champ
Gavin Rees - World Champ at one weight, goes on to be prizefighter champ and british lightweight champ
Enzo Maccarinelli - Has his best years under enzo, World champ
Bradley Pryce - Commonwealth champion, good talent
Gary Lockett - WBU Champion, last guy to beat ryan rhoded. Also World title challenger
Nathan Cleverley - Goes on to be world champion
Jamie Arthur - Went on to be commonwealth champion
Tony Doherty - Welsh champion, real underachiever
Hari Miles - Welsh title challenger
James todd - IBA title challenger
Kerry Hope - good record, fringe title contender
Chris Evangelou - Looks to be a very very good prospect.
Mohammed Nasir - Would have been a good pro had he not failed brain scan
Paul Samuels - Good domestic fighter, welsh title and ibf intercontinental championship

All that and they've probably only beaten two, maybe three world-class fighters between them. Take away Joe C, and I'd make that grand total...zero.

Smoke and mirrors, baby, smoke and mirrors.

[freddydoesdallas]

Agree with EH, everytime they've stepped up, they've been found wanting bar Joe. Still waiting to see how Clev progresses.

[NazNaci1]

The guy is good at getting fighters in shape, but waaaay overrated when it comes to boxing knowledge and tactics. Some of the stuff he was saying prior to Haye v Mac was laughable, seriously. It showed how badly he misread scenario's.

Not all that, imo.

[JamesH]

I feel sorry for him in a way as it wasn't that long ago he was flavour of the month, Ring Magazines coach of the year et al. Its been a mighty descent.

The thing is, I agree with most of the above, but I think it would be fairer to judge Enzo on the relative ability of his fighters. They may have got beaten when they stepped up, but did he have them overachieving in the first place? Not in every case, but he did well for some of those lads, in conjunction with clever match making.

I do however share some of the tactical reservations, I remember Enzo Macc mocking Hayes punch output prior to their match up, and saying how Enzo would never put up with such a low work rate. A perfect demonstration of the merits of quality over quantity eh...

[apophenic]

All that and they've probably only beaten two, maybe three world-class fighters between them. Take away Joe C, and I'd make that grand total...zero.

rees beat m'baye who was on the fringes of world class.

calzaghe beat kessler, lacy, hopkins, roy jones, bika, mitchell, brewer, reid and eubank....i'd say all those fighters are world class.

and maccarinelli beat braithwaite...who again was world class.

a little higher than your 2 or 3.

[whiskey]

I think when his his fighter's went into deep water, they had to swim out for themselves. Or Powell would drag them out. He was so tense, angry and hyper that it seemed to wind-up his fighters instead of calm them down. Enzo Macc vs Haye was a good example. The self-implosion during the Hopkins is another. His ego was something else, I'll never forget the scorn he showed Macca when he lost the Haye fight. If looks could kill - because his own reputation was dented, which was poor form.

Cant comment on the gym work he does, perhaps that was top notch.

Many think his career was born of the success of a talented son.

There is a grain of truth in that definitely, but he did improve and develop fighters of his own to domestic honours so credit where it's due for that.

[wrimc]

the guy certainly hasnt done too bad. its funny how in one small gym or area you can all of a sudden get an outburts of talent and success. some of it might be due to the right place right time but you have to attribute some success to Enzo. After all there are some well respected boxing trainers in the UK that will be lucky to get one world titlist.

[Eraserhead]

All that and they've probably only beaten two, maybe three world-class fighters between them. Take away Joe C, and I'd make that grand total...zero.

rees beat m'baye who was on the fringes of world class.

calzaghe beat kessler, lacy, hopkins, roy jones, bika, mitchell, brewer, reid and eubank....i'd say all those fighters are world class.

and maccarinelli beat braithwaite...who again was world class.

a little higher than your 2 or 3.

Really? Wow. Our definitions of 'world class' are a little apart, to say the least.

[apophenic]

All that and they've probably only beaten two, maybe three world-class fighters between them. Take away Joe C, and I'd make that grand total...zero.

rees beat m'baye who was on the fringes of world class.

calzaghe beat kessler, lacy, hopkins, roy jones, bika, mitchell, brewer, reid and eubank....i'd say all those fighters are world class.

and maccarinelli beat braithwaite...who again was world class.

a little higher than your 2 or 3.

Really? Wow. Our definitions of 'world class' are a little apart, to say the least.

which one's do you disagree with?

[kamicazze]

My definition of world class is a fighter whO fights at the top level. World class is your titlists and world ranked fighters. I believe this guy reckons that world class to be what I class as elite fighters. Elite fighters are p4p top 30 imo. Joe Gallagher is hailed as a good coach however he is yet to have a world titlist and not one of his fighers has defeated a world class opponent?? That doesn't make him a bad coach though. In fact I think Gallagher is a great coach

[observer1]

rees beat m'baye who was on the fringes of world class.

calzaghe beat kessler, lacy, hopkins, roy jones, bika, mitchell, brewer, reid and eubank....i'd say all those fighters are world class.

and maccarinelli beat braithwaite...who again was world class.

a little higher than your 2 or 3.

Really? Wow. Our definitions of 'world class' are a little apart, to say the least.

which one's do you disagree with?

Only World Class Win's he had was against Kessler.
Lacy was a Joke, Never Was, and evidently Never Will
Hopkins-a dodgy SD against a 44 year old is nothing big.
RJJ - im not even going to say anything
As for everyone else on your funny list, you can't be serious ?

If you want an ELITE resumé for recent fighters look at: - Hopkins, Mayweather, Paquiao, Marquez, RJJ (Simply for multi-weight achievements) etc.

World Class Resumé: - Cotto, Mosley, Martinez, Andrew Ward, Carl Froch, Chris John, Morales and Barrera etc.

Joe Cal was good, but there is a reason why Calzaghe is looked at as a joke, his fanboys are a complete farce. Anyone who can hold Lacy, Brewe and Mitchell has World Class wins really hasn't got a clue about Boxing.

Not to mention how Frank spilled the Beans once he was sacked about Joe's "injuries" and "Pullouts" from any half-big fight during his "Scared of leaving the UK due to fear of flight" days.

[Coco]

Given how nathan cleverley has just been declared world champ it may be worth discussing about enzo's legacy as a trainer. Much was said about him being unable to train anyone but joe but heres a list of fighters he trained
Joe Calzaghe - Unbeaten world champ
Gavin Rees - World Champ at one weight, goes on to be prizefighter champ and british lightweight champ
Enzo Maccarinelli - Has his best years under enzo, World champ
Bradley Pryce - Commonwealth champion, good talent
Gary Lockett - WBU Champion, last guy to beat ryan rhoded. Also World title challenger
Nathan Cleverley - Goes on to be world champion
Jamie Arthur - Went on to be commonwealth champion
Tony Doherty - Welsh champion, real underachiever
Hari Miles - Welsh title challenger
James todd - IBA title challenger
Kerry Hope - good record, fringe title contender
Chris Evangelou - Looks to be a very very good prospect.
Mohammed Nasir - Would have been a good pro had he not failed brain scan
Paul Samuels - Good domestic fighter, welsh title and ibf intercontinental championship

Surely all this didn't happen by accident??
It ranks with any other trainers achievements and from an area which was never a boxing hotbed.

[SteveDow]

I always viewed Enzo Calzaghe as more of a fitness trainer than a boxing coach. He reminded me of a recalcitrant army leader with small man syndrome. A little Hitler if you like.

His methods were crude and seemed to be centred around completely beasting his fighters (eg: the running up and down steps multiple times, the "bam, bam, bam" pad work he used to do with Macca) and his tactics in the corner seemed to focus on administering slaps to the face of his fighters whilst bellowing incomprehensible advice into their faces rather than giving sound, calm and considered advice. The crude tactics in the corner may work when your fighter is beating the crap out of someone but not when they are under the cosh and need a rapid change of game plan.

You have to give the guy credit for his resume but he has also been very lucky to have trained a fighter like Joe Calzaghe who would have been world class no matter who trained him. Guys like Enzo Mac were very well matched and we have seen what happened at the first sign of a step into genuine world class.

As you can see, I'm not the biggest fan of him as either a trainer or a person. I found the guy breathtakingly arrogant and delusional in his pre-fight hype, most notably prior to the Haye v Enzo fight. His all time classic quote prior to that fight: "I can't see how anyone can think that this fight can go beyond two rounds" (obviously in Enzo's favour). Well spot on son but shame you picked the wrong guy!

[observer1]

The question was asked to Fw about a year ago on his forum about Calzaghe ducking people during his reign and he actually said something along the lines of - Calzaghe never ducked anyone except choosing to fight an ageing Hopkins over Pavlik, as this would have been a huge fight at the time.

I'll get the exact words when i can, their forum appears to be down at present.

Dude, he said how he pulled out of the bout against Glen Johnson 3 times, faking injuries in i think two.

He said himself he would never face RJJ "unless someone offered him the crown jewels".

He said himself how RJJ did not was any good anymore by the time he faced him.

i also laugh how Cal fans say "American fighters ducked him". Yes, because Hopkins and RJJ are going to say NO to $Multi-Million Super-Fights in Las vegas to face Joe for the "Warren Boxing Oranization" for about a $100,000

[NazNaci1]

i also laugh how Cal fans say "American fighters ducked him". Yes, because Hopkins and RJJ are going to say NO to $Multi-Million Super-Fights in Las vegas to face Joe for the "Warren Boxing Oranization" for about a $100,000

That was usually Warren's line, when ppl asked why certain matches were not made, it was because they were talking 'telephone numbers'. Which was bollocks, of course.

[Coco]

There is no doubt that Hopkins ducked JC a good few years back, and taking RJJ over Pavlik was a deliberate slap in the face to FW rather than avoiding the fighter

[kamicazze]

Calzaghe's reputation continues to be enhanced by b-hop defeating pascal and pavlik and kessler beating froch and everyone froch thus beats. Read a story that Enzo Maccarinelli has lil enzo back in the corner for his comeback. I will however agree with all who said Enzo is an egomaniac. He always came out with some phrases like ive trained 3 world champs, that speaks for itself.

[Jeff Thomas]

I watch his pad work and read/ listen to what he says and I wonder how the hell he's being so successful! His physiological knowledge is limited to say the least, but his achievements are UNBELIEVABLE!!! I think his achievements are a clear demonstration of the power of mental attitude- these guys surrounded themselves with success and champions and learned off enzo and off each other. I think he must be an incredible motivator and his self belief is clearly infectious. This made him a great trainer.

[Cyclops]

Really? Wow. Our definitions of 'world class' are a little apart, to say the least.

which one's do you disagree with?

Only World Class Win's he had was against Kessler.
Lacy was a Joke, Never Was, and evidently Never Will
Hopkins-a dodgy SD against a 44 year old is nothing big.
RJJ - im not even going to say anything
As for everyone else on your funny list, you can't be serious ?

If you want an ELITE resumé for recent fighters look at: - Hopkins, Mayweather, Paquiao, Marquez, RJJ (Simply for multi-weight achievements) etc.

World Class Resumé: - Cotto, Mosley, Martinez, Andrew Ward, Carl Froch, Chris John, Morales and Barrera etc.

Joe Cal was good, but there is a reason why Calzaghe is looked at as a joke, his fanboys are a complete farce. Anyone who can hold Lacy, Brewe and Mitchell has World Class wins really hasn't got a clue about Boxing.

Not to mention how Frank spilled the Beans once he was sacked about Joe's "injuries" and "Pullouts" from any half-big fight during his "Scared of leaving the UK due to fear of flight" days.

Wow, this guy again? As soon as the name 'Calzaghe' is mentioned in a post, this dude is there doing his best to discredit him. And when I called him on it once he denied hating Calzaghe. Just the bit about "a dodgy SD against a 44 year old is nothing big." That's just brilliant. I can list at least five fighters that Calzaghe should have fought and never did, but the Hopkins fight is looking more and more like his best win. The last time human marvel Bernard Hopkins got beat, the oldest world champion of all time, who subsequently after the Calzaghe loss scalped unbeaten Middleweight champ Kelly Pavlik and Light Heavyweight boss Jean Pascal, and DOMINATED them. The fact that even people who thought Hopkins won only had him winning by a point or so, and that most people agree Calzaghe deserved the nod (including Manny Stewart) against someone who is still fighting on an elite level and regarded as a modern great, proves one thing at least: You're an idiot.

For what it's worth, from his sh*tty little run down gym in Wales, to achieve all that is mentioned above is pretty impressive. He's no Freddie Roach, but he's done good considering the beginnings.

[Asterix]

Wow, this guy again? As soon as the name 'Calzaghe' is mentioned in a post, this dude is there doing his best to discredit him.

I was thinking the same thing. Nothing like a Calzaghe post to bring observer1 out of the woodwork. He's obsessed.

[Wake up call]

Did he really have Chris Evangelou? Yes he signed with Calzaghe Promotions and was going to go with Enzo but not sure he did in the end. If Enzo actually trained him it would have only been for a fight or two.

Jamie Arthur was never a success under Enzo. If memory serves me he had one fight under him and lost. Jamie early on was with Tony Borg and was with Darren Wilson when he had his more successful "second career".

Enzo Mac and Gary Lockett were already WBU champs when they went to Enzo.

Nathan Clev always trained with his dad Vince anyway. Enzo, I'm told, used to just add the finishing touches.

For me, Joe apart obviously, Gavin Rees is his greatest success. There in childhood and went on to win British and world titles.

I'm a big fan of Enzo. One of my friends John Salerno trained under Enzo as a junior and still calls him "coach" today. But his successes have been Joe, Gavin and Bradley Pryce. The others merely passed through on their way to somewhere else.

[kamicazze]

Enzo Maccarinelli certainly enjoyed some of his best performances under Calzaghe. Likewise with Lockett who i believe beat Ryan Rhodes whilst under calzaghe. It would be interesting if someone could gather a list of all the fights in order that calzaghe cornered. With the results. Up to 2008 he seemed like a golden goose who just made fighters great and then Haye destroyed macca, Kotelnik ground down rees, Hall wrecked Pryce, Pavlik beat lockett and Joe went and retired. With all this happening at one time could it be that he lost his passion for it

[Jeff Thomas]

Enzo Maccarinelli certainly enjoyed some of his best performances under Calzaghe. Likewise with Lockett who i believe beat Ryan Rhodes whilst under calzaghe. It would be interesting if someone could gather a list of all the fights in order that calzaghe cornered. With the results. Up to 2008 he seemed like a golden goose who just made fighters great and then Haye destroyed macca, Kotelnik ground down rees, Hall wrecked Pryce, Pavlik beat lockett and Joe went and retired. With all this happening at one time could it be that he lost his passion for it

Or was it coincidence that they all started taking part in 50-50 fights?

[Captain Hook]

Really? Wow. Our definitions of 'world class' are a little apart, to say the least.

which one's do you disagree with?

Only World Class Win's he had was against Kessler.
Lacy was a Joke, Never Was, and evidently Never Will
Hopkins-a dodgy SD against a 44 year old is nothing big.
RJJ - im not even going to say anything
As for everyone else on your funny list, you can't be serious ?

If you want an ELITE resumé for recent fighters look at: - Hopkins, Mayweather, Paquiao, Marquez, RJJ (Simply for multi-weight achievements) etc.

World Class Resumé: - Cotto, Mosley, Martinez, Andrew Ward, Carl Froch, Chris John, Morales and Barrera etc.

Joe Cal was good, but there is a reason why Calzaghe is looked at as a joke, his fanboys are a complete farce. Anyone who can hold Lacy, Brewe and Mitchell has World Class wins really hasn't got a clue about Boxing.

Not to mention how Frank spilled the Beans once he was sacked about Joe's "injuries" and "Pullouts" from any half-big fight during his "Scared of leaving the UK due to fear of flight" days.

Unfair, and contradictory

You slate Calzaghe and dismiss his victory over Hopkins and then point to Hopkins (who has beaten fighters like Pavlik and Pascal since being outpointed by JC) as an example of someone with an ELITE resume!

Laughable

Lacy was favourite to beat him with most posters, and you've sidestepped wins over people like Bika, Eubank, Brewer, Jones, Woodhall and Reid

How many times was Joe Calzaghe in trouble in his long career? Once? Twice maybe?

From a tiny little gym in the valleys of South Wales I'd say Enzo Calzaghe's done very well to help produce Cleverly, Calzaghe Jr, Rees, Maccarinelli, Pryce and co, and anyone who says different is being narrow minded.

If he'd done that in the middle of London or Manchester he'd be getting praised to the hilt

He's no longer flavour of the month and I wouldn't say he's the best trainer in the UK by a stretch, but he's up there on achievement in recent years, like him or not.