Aaron Pryor vs Kosta Tszyu

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Jul 2005, 19:40

Both Kosta and Pryor basically spent their wholde career at junior welterweight never challenging for the welterweight title. Both are two All time great junior welterweights. WHO WOULD HAVE WON?????

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 01 Jul 2005, 19:54

Kostya would win. Pryor was too easy to hit and too slow. Of course his offensive style could cause Kostya problems "a la Hatton". But a prime Zoo would stop Pryor in ten!

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 01 Jul 2005, 21:43

Aaron Pryor wins very, very easily.

Of course he'll suffer a flash knockdown but then he will get back up and knock Kosta Tzsyu out.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 01 Jul 2005, 21:44

locoxelbox wrote:Kostya would win. Pryor was too easy to hit and too slow. Of course his offensive style could cause Kostya problems "a la Hatton". But a prime Zoo would stop Pryor in ten!

You have no idea who Aaron Pryor is if you think that he was slower than Kosta Tszyu.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 02 Jul 2005, 02:03

...aaron pryor is a highly over rated fighter...but i've always felt...and this was long before the fight with haton...that kostya , ...though a good fighter....was too robotic and a little stiff and could be taken by an aggressive opponent who'd throw lots of leather....and who had speed...and pryor had all these qualities and i think he'd win.

(that thud was tomato can fainting)

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 02 Jul 2005, 02:37

Jaclem wrote:...aaron pryor is a highly over rated fighter...but i've always felt...and this was long before the fight with haton...that kostya , ...though a good fighter....was too robotic and a little stiff and could be taken by an aggressive opponent who'd throw lots of leather....and who had speed...and pryor had all these qualities and i think he'd win.

(that thud was tomato can fainting)

Does that mean Kostya Tzsyu was over rated?

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 02 Jul 2005, 02:41

Jaclem wrote:...aaron pryor is a highly over rated fighter...but i've always felt...and this was long before the fight with haton...that kostya , ...though a good fighter....was too robotic and a little stiff and could be taken by an aggressive opponent who'd throw lots of leather....and who had speed...and pryor had all these qualities and i think he'd win.

(that thud was tomato can fainting)

Man.............you guys are something else.

Aaron Pryor was one of the most underated fighters of all time.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 02 Jul 2005, 02:58

Grimm wrote:
Jaclem wrote:...aaron pryor is a highly over rated fighter...but i've always felt...and this was long before the fight with haton...that kostya , ...though a good fighter....was too robotic and a little stiff and could be taken by an aggressive opponent who'd throw lots of leather....and who had speed...and pryor had all these qualities and i think he'd win.

(that thud was tomato can fainting)
Man.............you guys are something else.

Aaron Pryor was one of the most underated fighters of all time.

Were you one of those guys in his entourage that was always shouting, "What time is it?...Hawk Time! What Time is it?...Hawk Time!"???

Actually, I liked him quite a bit...it's unfortunate that his toughest opponent was cocaine...

He would have handled Kostya Tszyu with ease at his peak...I heard he used to beat up Ray Leonard in sparring sessions...

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Jul 2005, 10:42

Pryor would clobber Kostya. Anyone who thinks Pryor was easy to hit, ain't seen any of his fights. Problem was by chance if you did hit him, Aaron got mad and then beat the shit out whoever hit him........Nobody of his time would touch Pryor. He was dangerous, and all the fighters of his time knew it. Sugar Ray Leonard would not accept his challenge to fight, and Pryor was the smaller man.........

The "hawk" would have given Leonard a spank'n!!

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:21

ringsider wrote:Pryor would clobber Kostya. Anyone who thinks Pryor was easy to hit, ain't seen any of his fights. Problem was by chance if you did hit him, Aaron got mad and then beat the shit out whoever hit him........Nobody of his time would touch Pryor. He was dangerous, and all the fighters of his time knew it. Sugar Ray Leonard would not accept his challenge to fight, and Pryor was the smaller man......... The "hawk" would have given Leonard a spank'n!!

Come on, ringsider. I bought tapes of lots of Pryor fights some years ago and was shocked the amount of times he was bowled over in the early rounds. You are right that when he boxed he was very hard to hit - his lateral movment was awesome when he decided to use it. But Tsyzu would turn up for a fight against Pryor since he would have studied his tapes. He wouldn't have come into the fight intending to box, and box only, then get caught out/cold (like the past-it Pambele did). Tsyzu would turn up to fight, as would Pryor, which could mean he may constantly catch Pryor with those long shots; Pryor wouldn't look to smother like Hatton did, he would crowd throwing bunches of punches, which means he wouldn't be thinking 'safety first'.

Saying that, the fact Pryor was a fast starter and also showed he could take it to a new level (albeit under dodgy circumstances - would that have happened in a televised fight today?), means you'd have to favour him late also, especially since it was high workrate in the later rounds that caught Tszyu out in both his defeats.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:28

Manos de Oro wrote:
ringsider wrote:Pryor would clobber Kostya. Anyone who thinks Pryor was easy to hit, ain't seen any of his fights. Problem was by chance if you did hit him, Aaron got mad and then beat the shit out whoever hit him........Nobody of his time would touch Pryor. He was dangerous, and all the fighters of his time knew it. Sugar Ray Leonard would not accept his challenge to fight, and Pryor was the smaller man......... The "hawk" would have given Leonard a spank'n!!
Come on, ringsider. I bought tapes of lots of Pryor fights some years ago and was shocked the amount of times he was bowled over in the early rounds. You are right that when he boxed he was very hard to hit - his lateral movment was awesome when he decided to use it. But Tsyzu would turn up for a fight against Pryor since he would have studied his tapes. He wouldn't have come into the fight intending to box, and box only, then get caught out/cold (like the past-it Pambele did). Tsyzu would turn up to fight, as would Pryor, which could mean he may constantly catch Pryor with those long shots; Pryor wouldn't look to smother like Hatton did, he would crowd throwing bunches of punches, which means he wouldn't be thinking 'safety first'.

Saying that, the fact Pryor was a fast starter and also showed he could take it to a new level (albeit under dodgy circumstances - would that have happened in a televised fight today?), means you'd have to favour him late also, especially since it was high workrate in the later rounds that caught Tszyu out in both his defeats.

Pryor would constantly tumble to the ground but they were much less than flash knockdowns.

I'm actually a Kosta Tszyu fan, but nobody and I mean nobody could beat Aaron Pryor at 140 I believe he wouldve beat the hell out of Leonard also.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:30

Manos de Oro wrote:
ringsider wrote:Pryor would clobber Kostya. Anyone who thinks Pryor was easy to hit, ain't seen any of his fights. Problem was by chance if you did hit him, Aaron got mad and then beat the shit out whoever hit him........Nobody of his time would touch Pryor. He was dangerous, and all the fighters of his time knew it. Sugar Ray Leonard would not accept his challenge to fight, and Pryor was the smaller man......... The "hawk" would have given Leonard a spank'n!!
Come on, ringsider. I bought tapes of lots of Pryor fights some years ago and was shocked the amount of times he was bowled over in the early rounds.

In what fight(s) was he "bowled over in the early rounds"?...through the Alexis Arguello fights, Pryor was outstanding...after that, he went downhill from drugs...

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:34

That is very true, he was usually up at a count of 1 and didn't appear hurt in the slightest. The part that bugs me is that he was caught in the first place. I'm really not sure he'd be up at a count of 1 if a well-timed Kostya jackhammer right caught him flush, while he was still to settle into the fight. But then Tsyzu could be such a slow starter at times, what if he didn't get that signiture shot off?..

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:34

Sweet Scientist wrote:
Manos de Oro wrote:
ringsider wrote:Pryor would clobber Kostya. Anyone who thinks Pryor was easy to hit, ain't seen any of his fights. Problem was by chance if you did hit him, Aaron got mad and then beat the shit out whoever hit him........Nobody of his time would touch Pryor. He was dangerous, and all the fighters of his time knew it. Sugar Ray Leonard would not accept his challenge to fight, and Pryor was the smaller man......... The "hawk" would have given Leonard a spank'n!!
Come on, ringsider. I bought tapes of lots of Pryor fights some years ago and was shocked the amount of times he was bowled over in the early rounds.
In what fight(s) was he "bowled over in the early rounds"?...through the Alexis Arguello fights, Pryor was outstanding...after that, he went downhill from drugs...

A few of them he went down early, but they were so quick you couldn't even call them flash knockdowns and when he went down he would usually get back up and knock the other guy out.

He went down with Akio Kameda and Kid Cervantes got up and knocked them out.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:37

Sweet Scientist wrote:
Manos de Oro wrote:
ringsider wrote:Pryor would clobber Kostya. Anyone who thinks Pryor was easy to hit, ain't seen any of his fights. Problem was by chance if you did hit him, Aaron got mad and then beat the shit out whoever hit him........Nobody of his time would touch Pryor. He was dangerous, and all the fighters of his time knew it. Sugar Ray Leonard would not accept his challenge to fight, and Pryor was the smaller man......... The "hawk" would have given Leonard a spank'n!!
Come on, ringsider. I bought tapes of lots of Pryor fights some years ago and was shocked the amount of times he was bowled over in the early rounds.
In what fight(s) was he "bowled over in the early rounds"?...through the Alexis Arguello fights, Pryor was outstanding...after that, he went downhill from drugs...

Cervantes, Johnson, some Japanese guy who didn't look much better than a novice... typical WBA mis-match (cf. Harris - Maussa).

EDIT: Obviously Harris - Maussa didn't turn out to be a mis-match.

But many people were calling it so pre-fight.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:57

Sweet Scientist wrote:He would have handled Kostya Tszyu with ease at his peak...I heard he used to beat up Ray Leonard in sparring sessions...

I heard that the Pryor - Leonard sparring sessions were pretty even actually (I am not a big fan of Leonards by the way).

As for Pryor vs Tszyu I would lean towards a bruising points win for Aaron Pryor Tszyu is class no doubt, but I feel the workrate and pressure Pryor could dish out would be the deciding factor.

As for Aarons knockdowns? to me that was more of a balance issue. The Hawks chin was solid.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Jul 2005, 12:25

For what it is worth Aaron Pryor beat Tommy Hearns as an amateur.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 02 Jul 2005, 12:30

ringsider wrote:For what it is worth Aaron Pryor beat Tommy Hearns as an amateur.

Indeed he did. I have the fight on tape and Pryor outpoints a very skinny 17 years old Hearns.

Pryor went on to lose twice to Howard Davis Jr and so therefore never made the 1976 USA Olympic team.

Pryor to this day still says he was robbed against Davis.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Jul 2005, 14:03

Howard Davis was argueably the biggest bust of the 76 olympic boxing team. All the talent in the world and no heart..

Sugar Ray became America's baby, with the picture in his boxing shoes, and him promising his mother he would never fight pro after the olympics....it was sickening..

And America bought into the bullshit. Sugar Ray and most of the boxers from that team got big pro contracts and Aaron Pryor the kid from the street got nothing. That is the inner rage that makes fighters great. Aaron Pryor had that, and talent too....what he didn't have was olympic gold and a marketing machine.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 02 Jul 2005, 14:09

ringsider wrote:Howard Davis was argueably the biggest bust of the 76 olympic boxing team. All the talent in the world and no heart.. Sugar Ray became America's baby, with the picture in his boxing shoes, and him promising his mother he would never fight pro after the olympics....it was sickening.. And America bought into the bullshit. Sugar Ray and most of the boxers from that team got big pro contracts and Aaron Pryor the kid from the street got nothing. That is the inner rage that makes fighters great. Aaron Pryor had that, and talent too....what he didn't have was olympic gold and a marketing machine.

I disagree I think Howard Davis Jr had plenty of heart.

Just a poor chin and lack of punching power.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 02 Jul 2005, 16:06

Dujuan Johnson could bang . . .his power was certainly in the same class if not equal to Kotsya. He hit Aaron FLUSH several times and Aaron just answered by throwing more punches . . .

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 02 Jul 2005, 17:07

dempseyfire wrote:Dujuan Johnson could bang . . .his power was certainly in the same class if not equal to Kotsya. He hit Aaron FLUSH several times and Aaron just answered by throwing more punches . . .

Knockout ratios (and numbers in general in boxing records) are mostly arbitary, though. Johnson's rise to his title shot looks to be filled with hometown knock-over jobs; one guy is even called Benjamin Stiff... In a way, his rise is similar to Pryor's: lot's of hometown filler with a test thrown in (I'm going to guess Montilla posed Johnson some problems, as Asprilla did Pryor). Either way, neither of those two's early records really match up to Kostya, who had actually won a 'world' title in only his 14th fight.

For what it's worth, to compare the numbers in the records anyway:

Johnson went the distance four times in his first twenty fights: Mike Blunt, Petchsayarm Petcharoen, Mario Martinez, Miguel Montilla.

Tsyzu also went the distance four times in his first twenty: with Juan LaPorte, Livingstone Bramble, Hector Lopez and Roger Mayweather.

The noticeable difference between the two is that those are 'names' on Tsyzu's record. No doubt they were likely way past their sell by date at that point, but I'm betting they also knew how to survive/last the distance versus a relative novice better than Johnson's 'lasters' did e.g. see Mayweather's unique 'octopus' style he employed on his trip to Oz.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 02 Jul 2005, 21:22

KOJOE90 wrote:
Sweet Scientist wrote:He would have handled Kostya Tszyu with ease at his peak...I heard he used to beat up Ray Leonard in sparring sessions...
I heard that the Pryor - Leonard sparring sessions were pretty even actually (I am not a big fan of Leonards by the way).

Well...I never actually saw them, but I've heard and read that Pryor gave Leonard a pounding more than once...just hear say, not admissible in court...but that's what I heard...

But even if the sessions were 'pretty even' as you put it, Pryor was 3" shorter and usually somewhat lighter that Ray...so the point could be made that Pryor held his own in sparring with a bigger guy (who happens to be a legend, like him or not...)

I also remember Pryor pubically challenging Leonard at a press conference once...Leonard down played it at the time...I'm certain that Pryor was serious though...a guy got big money to fight Leonard back then, and Pryor liked 'big money' the same as the rest of us, I'm sure...

dws · Post by **dws** » 02 Jul 2005, 21:47

I've always felt that Pryor is a bit over-rated due to his 2 poundings of a slightly past it Arguello,who had trouble as a lightweight(and floored by the unremarkable Andrew Ganigan and the tough as nails but one dimensional Jose Luis Ramirez)and was slowing down some.That's not to say Pryor wasn't good,he was,but getting his career derailed by his own destructive behavior seems to have turned him into a superman to some.The truth is he never got the chance to fight,much less beat,Leonard or Hearns and saying he could beat them or walk through them as some would have you believe seems a bit much.I do think he would beat Tszyu,however.Leonard and Hearns are totally different animals.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 02 Jul 2005, 22:57

....no..i don't necessarily think kosty was over rated...but i do think he was vulnerable to a certain style...and aaron pryor had that style. ofen an inferior fighter can beat the better one if the style is right.

now look...i keep getting sucked into these threads about pryor..and i'll make some of the same points once again...though it doesn't seem to do any good.

"for what it's worth, pryor beat hearns in thr amateurs." well..it's worth nothing. hearns was an entirely different fighter as a pro and matching him against pryor then would get the promoter arressted for manslaughter. hearns by a kayo....a devasting kayo...much like cuevas and duran.

pryor/leonard....the candy ass sugar man used pryor in sparring sessions because that's all pryor could ever be against leonard. nowhere near peers in terms of quality.

i saw pryor's first pro fight from ringside and many many more from the same seat. he was not a great fighter then and he never became one.