please help usa boxing is dying

[boxingcoach80]

someone please help us amatuer boxing in california has turned into a joke the judging is horrific all the judges seem to be associated with gyms and are fathers moms aunts or uncles of boxers it has turned out to be a popularity contest rather than a boxing match this has to stop we need reform or boxing will die.....please help somebody .....

[boxmel]

Where in California? Which LBC? Rather than bemoaning the alleged situation, why don't you become part of the solution? Get certified. Become an official. Find people not associated with gyms and get them involved. Speak up when you see a parent or relative judging a boxer.

[boxingcoach80]

those are great suggestions boxmel but its going to take alot more than that to fix this problem we need a higher power to stop this nonsense that goes on .....It happens all the time and most everyone sees whats going on and the officials act like there blind to it. Its ruining dreams for these kids and giving false hope to others something has to be done .

[boxmel]

those are great suggestions boxmel but its going to take alot more than that to fix this problem we need a higher power to stop this nonsense that goes on .....It happens all the time and most everyone sees whats going on and the officials act like there blind to it. Its ruining dreams for these kids and giving false hope to others something has to be done .

Unfortunately, a "higher power" can't step in unless there are ongoing rules violations - and then you have to start at the LBC grievance level. I have no idea how you would "prove" that the judging is biased and unfair. Have you talked to your LBC COO regarding the perceived problem?

[boxingcoach80]

you know that isnt going to do anything the coo just looks at you like im just another poor loser thats how the officials think some of them are rude also when they get confronted about the decisions.....

[funkmehard]

I agree the judging is horrendous in California and everywhere else. Being from Calif i see it in all the LBC'S. What are the judges lookin at. You fight in one place and try to fight the so called olympic style with little or no body shots,hold both hands up when your opponent punches and position yourself by the side with the two judges,the next time you fight a good fight being the agressor,landing body shots,good jabs that snap the head back,going forward and you lose.Some of these fights aren't even that close and they give it to the local favorite anyway.I took two fights on two different occasions both of our opponents already qualified for a national tournament. The first one was with my 11 yr old fighter.We had to prepare him for a bad decision,going into their LBC which i have plenty of friends from. They had the newspapers and cameraman and only three judges,we clearly beat this kid with clean punches,jabs and straight shots. this kid hit with his palm,which is slapping,ugly looping blows had terrible footwork and he wins anyway. They won't even do a rematch. I had an open senior bout with my boxer who is a non citizen against the regional champion in this same LBC, we put it on this person pretty good and i thought we landed 3 punches to 1.I was so happy with my fighters performance i was ready for a happy long ride home then the decision came. If i get a gift like that which is very rare i tell my fighter and i will go over to the other coach and his fighter and tell them we didn't deserve that win.Judging will never be all the way fair. I had an open senior bout where one judge scored the fight 77 to 75 they must not have blocked a punch. Bad judging makes it hard to travel and spend the money to go fight. What do we do.

[zonca]

it happens every where coach, if u know ur fighter won tell him 2 keep his head high, and tell him that it takes a grown up 2 cheat them out of a victory and shame on them, and never b like them, that is why our olympic team cant win a gold medal in the olympics they never send the best fighters ,it is all politics and favortisem,i always say we are 1 of the richest country in the world ,and are free,but yet we cant win gold in the olympic boxing,and the poorest country in the world,with problems,and cant afford 2 put sandles on a fighters feet,yet win gold ,why is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! blame it on our olympic commitee 4 not doing there job right!!!!!!!!

[Jma05]

Amatuer boxing is a joke. No bodyshots, and tell a guy to sit there with his hands up high and a man wont even score anything. What gets me is a guy can move around and box well, and can touch his opponent a 100 diffrent times, but since his opponent has his hands high, the man will score no points through 9 minutes of boxig, where the other man will only throw one punch during the whole fight, and as long as he lands it flush he wins the bout 1-0? So lets give the decision to the man that through one punch during the fight and scored a so what "SCORING BLOW" . Where the other man even though he hit his opponent, even say 20 times, but since the opponent has his hands high that kid scores nothing and loses. It is all a joke. Your seeing alot of international bouts ending, 3-1, 2-0, 1-0, and even sometimes 0-0 . Now honestly how does a boxer score up to only 3 points down to nothing within 9 minutes of fighting? Amatuer boxing s garbage. The kids coming up now might as well turn pro as soon as they can.

[boxmel]

No bodyshots

,

Body shots ARE counted. Period.

and tell a guy to sit there with his hands up high

Whatever that means. I haven't seen a boxer yet just stand and hold his hands up.

but since his opponent has his hands high, the man will score no points

Please explain exactly what you mean. I don't get it.

Your seeing alot of international bouts ending, 3-1, 2-0, 1-0,

Those were accepted scores. Not using that method any more. You'll see much higher punch counts in the future.

[badsboxer]

boxmel, sorry but you are wrong I don't care what anyone says body shots are NOT counted in amateur boxing. Most officials will NOT count them. Oh I know what the rulebook sais but in the 'real' world99.9% of body shots are not counted. I seen boxers drop there opponents with a body shot and the monitor proves that the body shot wasnt counted.
There are many boxers who just stand there for long periods of time with their hands up high and it is almost impossible to score against them. You want proof? well let's start at the NATIONAL level Luis Arias, Luis Feliciano, Steve Geffard, Pedro Sosa,and on and on. Need more proof? Do you get it now boxmel?? Amateur boxing IS dying! The corruption and cancer is deep in USA Boxing That is why the USOC has held back funding to USA Boxing and not other sports. USA Boxing is operating on less and less money by the month USA Boxing sucks! There needs to be an overhaul of all personell at USA Boxing! They need to all be replaced with fresh new blood. It couldn't get any worse! Almost all of them are corrupt!

[Slythex]

A few thoughts:

boxmel, sorry but you are wrong I don't care what anyone says body shots are NOT counted in amateur boxing. Most officials will NOT count them. Oh I know what the rulebook sais but in the 'real' world99.9% of body shots are not counted. I seen boxers drop there opponents with a body shot and the monitor proves that the body shot wasnt counted.

Here's what I think the issue is with body shots. Remember that judges are only allowed to score blows THAT THEY SEE, which means just because a kid's head snaps back doesn't mean they saw the blow if the boxer's back is towards them. Body blows are even more difficult to see cleanly. Under the old computer scoring (with the monitor you are referring to), any scoring blow needed to be seen by a minimum of 3 judges within a one second window of time. The nature of a body blow (due to angles and the way the body obscures the view of the blow) is such that it's tough to get a good angle to see cleanly, and remember, for it to score you needed to have THREE judges see it simultaneously and therefore record the blow. That's the OLD scoring system, which is no longer in place. You won't see this problem going forward because we no longer need to have 3 judges record a blow within a specific time frame.

The corruption and cancer is deep in USA Boxing

Just because you don't agree with a result doesn't mean that the cause is corruption. Coaches and fans have been complaining about the results of boxing matches (pro and amateur) since the sport was formed. Yes, there are bad decisions, and yes obviously we want to take whatever steps are possible to minimize these bad decisions, but there's no underlying conspiracy afoot to fix results or anything.

USA Boxing is operating on less and less money by the month USA Boxing sucks! There needs to be an overhaul of all personell at USA Boxing! They need to all be replaced with fresh new blood. It couldn't get any worse! Almost all of them are corrupt!

Let's see, we have a new BOD as of 2010, a goodly amount of the staff are new, and there have been clear steps to fix the financial problems of the past. It looks like things are moving in the right direction, although obviously there's still work to do. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I think we're seeing some tangible signs of improvement. Also, while I believe current leadership is working to fix these problems, recognize that this stuff can't be fixed overnight.

All I can say is channel your frustration into something positive: be active at your LBC level not only as an athlete/coach/official, but also behind the scenes and push for change that improves the sport. Help mobilize other folks to do the same. And do the same at the regional and national level when the opportunities present themselves.

[badsboxer]

Slythex i can tell you are a very positive person and you mean well, but you cannot ignore the corruption. just because scoring is different does not mean there will be no problem with body shot scoring. you evaded the real issue- there ARE many officials who simply will not score body shots i know of three off the top of my head who say that body shots dont count in amateur boxing, and they are usa boxing officials! they believe that body shots should not count and take it upon themselves to not score them even though we all know they should. that is like saying there are no drugs being smuggled into the US because it is against the law!
and when i say the corruption is deep, you mistakenly assume that i am talking about the scoring! wrong again! that is all i can say about that at this time- stay tuned

[boxingcoach80]

ALL IT COMES DOWN TOO IS WE NEED BETTER JUDGES WE NEED TO BE STRICT ON WHO IS JUDGING THESE MATCHES MOST OF THE OFFICIALS REALLY DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT BOXING ......

[JMac]

Have you recruited any officials for your LBC? If not, get working on it. It's not easy finding officials for boxing these days when they get little to no money for their time and get bitched out by coaches and fans if they don't pick who they want to win. Little league umpires make at least $20-$50 a game. I know soccer refs that will work 4-5 games on a saturday and make at least $20 a game. Many times it cost me to go officiate boxing paying for tolls, parking, gas, etc and then the host of the show would get pissed off if you asked for a free hotdog and soda.

[badsboxer]

Very good point JMAC. It is really frustrating though but that is really the only solution at this time

[boxingcoach80]

thats the problem coaches and dads are becoming officials and recruiting family members to be judges so now we have gyms that have 3 or 4 officials from each gym ridiculous bescause if you fight a kid from there gym or kid there associated with good luck getting a fair judgement....

[badsboxer]

That is the point exaclty - when you recruit, more than 90% of the people who join are either relatives or friends - they have a vested interest. that is human nature. you will never get rid of the corruption. Corruption thrives in amateur boxing because in amateur boxing there are no repurcutions for cheating when you are a judge or ref. when you dont score a punch that landed against your fighter, all you have to say is that you didnt see it. when you score one for your fighter when he really didn't score, all you have to say is that from your angle it looked like a scoring blow. If you don't beileve that it happens often, you are being naive

[bwadd21]

Seems to me that everyones complaining, but nobody is doing anything but talkining about what should be done. I get tired of hearing all the stories of how me and my kid got robbed and all our dreams were shattered!!!!! Its the same ol story... If my kid loses i fight , i tell them to work harder, if they think they got robbed, i tell them they will porobably win one that the other thinks they got robbed. thats how boxing has been and always will be. We either have to deal with it or get out of it!

[boxmel]

bwadd21 - wish there were more coaches with your positive attitude. You are the type of role model our athletes need.

[badsboxer]

you are actually being superficial. just because someone tells it like it is does not mean they are not doing anything about it. Of course I tell my fighters to work harder after they lose. If I believe they got robbed because of favoritism, we continually work hard in areas they could improve on, and keep a positive attitude. I also try to recruit people to even the odds as everyone else does. I do what I can to level the playing field, and instead of crying, I get involved as much as I can. So you incorrectly state that "Nobody is doing anything but talking". However, you cannot bury your head in the sand and pretend that there is no cheating! As I mentioned before, human nature dictates there will always be corruption. Forgive me for 'telling it like it is'! NOW who is being naive?

[boxmel]

As I mentioned before, human nature dictates there will always be corruption. Forgive me for 'telling it like it is'! NOW who is being naive?

So you honestly believe that there are officials who deliberately and with malice aforethought set out to pick who they want to win and that, most times, all three judges are in collusion? What are you going to do about it?

[badsboxer]

Boxmel - You are putting words in my mouth. That is beneath you. You are right about the first part. Yes, ABSOLUTELY I believe (and so does every intelligent person with half a brain) that 'there are officials who deliberately and with malice aforethough set out to pick who they want to win'. That is the way it is. As I stated before, to believe otherwise would be asenine and ignorant.
The second part - to say that I believe that 'most times, all three judges are in collusion' is absurd! I never said that. You are now just embellishing. Everyone will agree that it doesn't happen more than 50% of the time. However, no one can deny that it happens, and it happens way too many times. THAT is the point. We have to reduce the number of times that it happens. Who has a good idea? How can you reduce it - besides what I already stated above? We are back to square one.

[bwadd21]

Some of the comments i read on here are ridiculus! I may not have been coaching for 30 years like some of the rest of you on here but i have been around for a little while and in most cases i believe to officals GET IT RIGHT! some of you act like they boch every single match one of your kids is involved in. i mean come on, its not that bad..... sure there is gonna be a decision every now and then that you disagree with, but that come with all sports in general. I say if you don't like it the either become a judge yourself and fix it, or get out alltogether!

[paopao]

I agree. I know this is an old post but I needed to find justification for my kid losing his first 4 fights recently. His most recent fights were at in the Jr. Olympics and the So Cal state championships. 2 of his matches had multiple standing 8 counts in his favor that I thought for sure he would win. 3 of his fights had people we did not know come up to us and say that my son won. Even the ring Dr. who examined my son after his so cal championships fight said the judges got it wrong. In the so cal tourney the kid my son was supposed to face if the judging were fair got robbed real bad as well. He was a skilled kid who faced a kid that looked totally outclassed. That fight was a really easy to call. The best kids are not getting through which is real bad for boxing. I am hanging on here on the verge of taking my boy out the sport. Paying to travel, hotels, gas and tickets for the entire clan isn't cheap. My sons match at the so cal championships was more competitive but a standing 8 for the other kid and a 3rd round domination by my boy still did not reward him with a victory. My kid loves the sport and he is really good at it and you don't need to know too much about boxing to see who the more polished kid is in the ring. It is just a shame. I look at big time gyms and see every kid holding up a belt and then you see them fight and wonder how they got those belts. I watched Cash Flow get beat and still win in this tournament. It has become a joke really. Amateur boxing in Southern Cali does need some help. I let my son know he was robbed. I know some of yall on here do not, but all that hard work he puts in, I let him know that he won and I let him know when he loses. I am not biased, I am a hard parent that calls it like it is because I want my son to get better. His coach has also told us because he is filipino it might be harder for him to get the favor of the judges. I don't know how true that is.

[scallum2015]

For the most part the officials get it right and the best boxers end up winning the Golds. Sometimes when coaches are to close to something it may cloud thier judgements imo.i been around the sport for awhile and can't think of a instance when the best of the best was constantly not getting the Golds. If a fighter is really good and trains real hard,that fighter will eventually win those Golds