The Hopkins-Benitez Debate...

[Goodnight, Irene]

Saw this one on another forum, & decided to blatantly steal it.

Which do you class as the more impressive achievement, becoming the oldest champion ever, beating Pascal at 46, or the youngest ever, defeating Cervantes at 17 (in your 18th year, though). I go with Benitez here, but someone else made a good point --- any old man will tell you Hopkins, because they know how hard it is as you age.

Who you got?

[dempseyfire]

Hopkims definitely, this shouldn't even be a debate. Fighting through age and wear and tear is much harder than relative lack of experience. At 17-18 you still have the energy of youth and muscles heal quicker than Carl Lewis. I remember thoroughly . . just the difference from 17 to 27 in terms of proneness to injury is huge.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

LOL at it not being debatable. I'd wager another 46 year old can exploit a style perfect for him before another 17yr old is beating an all time great. I doubt either happens in the next century. But benitez by a hair for me.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Its definitely a debate, as I see it. There are some really good points on either side.

Im the age DempseyFire mentioned in his post, 27, and to be honest, I cant even remember if I bounced back quicker or not when I was 17. Seems like a long time ago.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Its definitely a debate, as I see it. There are some really good points on either side.

Im the age DempseyFire mentioned in his post, 27, and to be honest, I cant even remember if I bounced back quicker or not when I was 17. Seems like a long time ago.

I was in better shape at 27. But I never messed with weights until my early 20's. I started noticing issues bouncing back in my later 30's. But even if that is different than most. A 27 year old is a full strength grown man as opposed to a teenager. At 27 I would have put a 17yr old me in the morgue. I'm 42 now and there aren't many 17yr olds in the world that I wouldn't decimate. That's a kid.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I gotta say, as a counter-argument to the idea that the best answer here will come from someone who knows what it is to be in your 40s (and its definitely a strong point, and one which gave me pause), step into any gym and see the state of development your average 17-year-old is in, even the exceptional amateurs. It really puts Benitez's achievement in stark context.

[Ezzard]

Occasionally in sports you get a kid come along who is amazing. In football teenagers often come through and make the first team from a young age. You rarely get a 46 year-old playing at the top level.

Modern science and 12 rounders make it easier for boxers to last longer these days but even so it's a great achievement.

And the point about kids in fights is a good one.

Hopkins or Benitez? Can't make my mind up.

[I Feel Fine]

Benitez beating a Hall of Famer with a ton of defenses in Cervantes is more impressive than Hopkins beating Pascal. But looking at it purely from an age perspective, forgetting the opponent (which seems to be the point of the poll) then it is Hopkins in my view. Many/most fighters are shot by 36, much less 46. Anyone who tries to diminish what Hopkins did is crazy (yes, I'm thinking specifically of distinguished Michael Moorer trainer Teddy "Foreman's an old used car" Atlas, who criticizes other trainers for not getting their young guns properly prepared to beat an old legend like B-Hop.)

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Can't make up your mind is perfect. Because there are no other examples. The minuscule edge for me is Cervantes over Pascal.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Benitez beating a Hall of Famer with a ton of defenses in Cervantes is more impressive than Hopkins beating Pascal. But looking at it purely from an age perspective, forgetting the opponent (which seems to be the point of the poll) then it is Hopkins in my view. Many/most fighters are shot by 36, much less 46. Anyone who tries to diminish what Hopkins did is crazy (yes, I'm thinking specifically of distinguished Michael Moorer trainer Teddy "Foreman's an old used car" Atlas, who criticizes other trainers for not getting their young guns properly prepared to beat an old legend like B-Hop.)

You contend that Atlas did not adequately prep Moorer for Foreman?

[I Feel Fine]

I don't think that was my main point. At any rate, I do think Atlas gave bad advise. If I remember correctly, Atlas was telling Moorer to keep the pressure on. If I remember right, he seemed to think that if Moorer kept the pressure on Foreman that George would tire; all Moorer did by keeping the pressure on was get knocked out, ala Louis-Conn. I do think that was a failing on Atlas' part. But, regardless of why Moorer lost, my point was that Atlas is the last person who should be critical of people who trained a fighter who lost to a forty year old legend. Old George left Atlas' fighter a bloody mess. It would be like if Ricky Hatton were to criticize Paul Williams for getting KO'd so bad against a top fighter... if you see what I mean.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I get you, and probably agree, in truth. I just dont know if that result should disqualify Atlas' opinion on principle.

[Jaywheel]

Benitez, by way of the quality of opposition they both fought to accomplish their feast.

[Jaywheel]

How about old George/Moorer vs Benitez ?

[The Irish Assassin]

Benitez, by way of the quality of opposition they both fought to accomplish their feats.

Yea, thats what it came down to for me.... Though, I'm still not 100% sure if I agree with myself.

[Seamus]

Have to go with Hopkins. A 46 yr old may ordinarily maintain strength, power and stamina, but the reflexes to fight at the highest level should by all reason be long gone by that age.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Hopkins for me. When you're as young as Benitez sometimes pure athleticism and physicality can compensate for technical mistakes. The room for missteps is a lot smaller when you're middle-aged for most people.

[Jaywheel]

Hopkins for me. When you're as young as Benitez sometimes pure athleticism and physicality can compensate for technical mistakes. The room for missteps is a lot smaller when you're middle-aged for most people.

Not when you are fighting a technically flawed guy like Pascal whose stamina compares to that of The Cannon.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Hopkins for me. When you're as young as Benitez sometimes pure athleticism and physicality can compensate for technical mistakes. The room for missteps is a lot smaller when you're middle-aged for most people.

Not when you are fighting a technically flawed guy like Pascal whose stamina compares to that of The Cannon.

Pascal's stamina sucks, but it's often situational. Hopkins had him thinking a lot more and mind-raped him in there, as opposed to say, Froch and Diaconu who went in guns blazing against him.

[Idisagree]

I have to go with Benitez here. Both are very impressive but the slight edge goes to Benitez because he simply was just a kid fighting a HOF. For me Hopkins had way more experience than Pascal not to mention that Pascal is a very limited fighter. On the other hand, we had a kid vs an established high caliber fighter like Cervantez. Like I said I have to go with Benitez.

[MEISINGER]

tough call.both are unheard of accomplishments
and i agree with the poster that said it could be
100 years before it happens again

i do think hopkins record will fall before benitez's

[Goodnight, Irene]

I think Benitez's record is here to stay. Few are even pro at his age anymore, let alone ready to threaten for a championship.

[Ambling Alp]

I guess I am on the same page as I Feel fine and Idisagree.
If the opponents were even, then I would lean toward Hopkins; though it is arguable.

However, Benitez had to beat a far better opponent. So in this case what Benitez's did more impressive. A 17-year old beating a great fighter is hard to beat.

[orbtastic]

I think it's slightly easier for a guy to keep going into his 40s, living the right lifestyle i.e. as Hopkins does than it is for a young kid to achieve what Benitez did.

[McCannW14]

Saw this one on another forum, & decided to blatantly steal it.

Which do you class as the more impressive achievement, becoming the oldest champion ever, beating Pascal at 46, or the youngest ever, defeating Cervantes at 17 (in your 18th year, though). I go with Benitez here, but someone else made a good point --- any old man will tell you Hopkins, because they know how hard it is as you age.

Who you got?

It has to be Benitez, just.

Hopkins has the benefit of all that experience, all that guile cunning and ringcraft, and he beat a good but not great fighter.

If I remember correctly Benitez atopped Antonio Cervantez for the 140lb title. I think Cervantez was better than Pascal P4P.