Tony Ayala

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 28 Jun 2005, 14:54

How good was tis guy b4 he went to jail.....how would do against todays Hopkins.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 28 Jun 2005, 15:01

I think anybody that mentally suspicious would not beat the Bernard Hopkins of recent years.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 28 Jun 2005, 16:03

Ayala would have been takn apart by Leonard, Hearns Duran and Hagler had he not been put away. Today he's overrated

dws · Post by **dws** » 28 Jun 2005, 17:44

I totally agree,this guy gets better(according to some) as the years go by.Bottom line is he fought and knocked out a bunch of journeymen,considering his chances against Duran,Leonard,and others is speculation of the highest order.Mentally weak means he gets the hell beat out of him by the big boys.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 28 Jun 2005, 17:48

Always surprised me the rapturous reception this guy used to get in San Antonio during his comeback, all things considered.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 29 Jun 2005, 02:25

You guys are nuts....Tony Ayala was a good fighter. Destroyed guys...he was an up and comer when he screwed up........He would have ended up with a title shot, and given that left handed Hagler fits.........of course those days are gone. His comeback is too little to late trying to recapture what might have been. He blew it himself....

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 29 Jun 2005, 03:35

I thought the comeback was over, because he was back inside for a long time? I guess a scumbag doesn't change even in 17 years.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 29 Jun 2005, 14:09

Did he get thrown back into prison? What did he do this time? Anyone know?

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 29 Jun 2005, 14:13

ringsider wrote:Did he get thrown back into prison? What did he do this time? Anyone know?

Hmm, maybe he is back out of clink now, looks like he should still be in there though. Leopards and spots it seems.

He was accused of breaking into a San Antonio home in 2000. Ayala was shot in the shoulder with a handgun by one of the two women in the house, and he was charged with burglary with intent to commit sexual assault. He pleaded guilty to reduced charges of burglary and attempt to commit aggravated assault. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail and 10 years of probation. He was also ordered into a sexual offender's program to receive treatment to manage his violent tendencies and his behavior toward women. Ayala spent 16 years in prison for a 1983 rape conviction in New Jersey.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 29 Jun 2005, 15:00

I am positive Ayala is back behing bars.

Totybear · Post by **Totybear** » 29 Jun 2005, 16:40

I seem to remember that Ayala had signed to fight Davey Moore for the WBA light middleweight title when arrested and was a massive favourite to win. He was replaced by Duran and the rest is history.

Another couple of stories I read about was that at age 14 he gave Pipino Cuevas a real beating in a sparring session and that he offered Duran out to s street fight!!!!!!!!!!

He really was an handfull and if he had gotten in with the current Bernard Hopkins then BH could retire knowing not all his fights were out and out snooze fests.

Jukejar · Post by **Jukejar** » 29 Jun 2005, 22:00

The young Ayala was a legitimate contender and rising star who might have accomplished many things, but I think he was nearing his come-uppance in the ring when he got it in the courts. I think he might have beaten Davey Moore in a good contest, but an Ayala-Hagler fight would have been an easy win for Marvin, at least after the first 2 rounds.

Ayala would have been an interesting opponent for any of the rising-in-weight welters of the period, such as Leonard, Benitez, Hearns, and Duran. I think his best shot at greatness would have been against Duran or Hearns. He had the ingredients to make those great fights but I don't think he would have beaten either man.

Hopkins would be to big, too strong, and too talented for Ayala.

My real suspicion is that Ayala would have lost to any high-quality fighter who didn't crumble early, which sounds like another popular bully who came to prominence not long after Ayala went away.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 30 Jun 2005, 13:52

I love the way youve all painted el Toro as a character who would crumble under any adversity in some lazy Tyson-comparison.

Well Ayala fought hard & tough against the very dangerosu Yory Boy Campas despite being nearly 40 yrs old & there was no pyschological unravelling in that fight.

If you want to compare Ayala & Tyson compare how until Buster Douglas unlocked the secret, Tyson terrofired everybody & flattened a number of heavyweights who with the subsequent info that Douglas provided us would maybe not have quit so easily (Holmes, Spinks, etc)

Ayala was a complete animal in the 80s & to assume he would fall apart because of your completely baseless analysis is poor. It is equally possible that these big name fighters, particularly Hearns, would be put to sleep by the Baby Bull, who could take a lick & give one.

Duran is another guy who turned his back & QUIT in the prime of his life when before hand as Ray Arcel put it "before this fight if anyone said Duran even knew the word quit i'd have spat in his eye"

Ayala was a terrorfying guy & although i wouldnt pick him over Hagler or Leonard, i'd definitely give him a legit shot of crushing Hitman & Manos de Piedres.

PS yeah he is back in the slammer for 10 yrs. was caught driving without a licence with porn & heroin in the vehicle. What a guy!!

Totybear · Post by **Totybear** » 30 Jun 2005, 16:27

overhand_right wrote:
Ayala was a complete animal in the 80s & to assume he would fall apart because of your completely baseless analysis is poor. It is equally possible that these big name fighters, particularly Hearns, would be put to sleep by the Baby Bull, who could take a lick & give one.

I agree he was a terryfying proposition for most of the contenders around at the time and would have loved to have seen him tackle hearns. However I think Hearns wold have tamed him and ruined his career. Assuming he didn't get knocked out first!!!!!

Jukejar · Post by **Jukejar** » 30 Jun 2005, 17:06

overhand right:
"I love the way youve all painted el Toro as a character who would crumble under any adversity " Hmm, I believe what I said was that Ayala "would have lost to any high-quality fighter who didn't crumble early," meaning, for instance, that if he didn't clock Hearns in an early round, Hearns would have made him fold. I would also give Ayala a shot against Hearns and Duran, as I mentioned ("I think his best shot at greatness would have been against Duran or Hearns."). I don't see much about your post that actually contradicts mine, despite your choosing to condemn my opinion as "completely baseless analysis." It's an opinion based on watching Ayala and the other fighters in action during the time period discussed--just an opinion, and just as 'baseless' as your own opinion. Don't really see why you felt the need to attack, but I guess that's your thing.

I would also add that the Ayala who fought Campos is a different proposition than the bully of the early 1980s. Fifteen years in a state prison will definitely change a man. Two weeks in a county workhouse will leave its mark, and that's not baseless analysis.

As for holding up the second Leonard fight to be the benchmark for Duran--thats a discussion for another post.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 30 Jun 2005, 18:41

overhand_right wrote:Duran is another guy who turned his back & QUIT in the prime of his life when before hand as Ray Arcel put it "before this fight if anyone said Duran even knew the word quit i'd have spat in his eye"

Ayala was a terrorfying guy & although i wouldnt pick him over Hagler or Leonard, i'd definitely give him a legit shot of crushing Hitman & Manos de Piedres.

Agree with your whole post overhand_right, bar this bit. Everything about 'no mas' is a farce - from the build up, to the fight itself, to the post reaction. Count the fight where they both were in shape, the fight that happened in the summer of that year. The fight where Duran walked through Leonard for an easy UD (I scored it 11 to 4).

Look at the similarities between Ayala and Roldan, then look at how Roldan handled Hagler with relative comfort, before the disgraceful thumbing incident - a product of Marvin's particular climb through the ranks, which I suppose, as a Champion, you have to give him a certain degree of credit for.

Of course, maybe Hagler was a little gunshy in that fight considering he'd just lost to Duran over 12 rounds - a feat that proved much harder for Leonard to do FOUR years later, after Hagler had struggled with Roldan, been mentally drained with Hearns, and went through mental and physical destruction against John Mugabi. Plus he was also fighting one fight a year by that point.

Leonard benefited hugely from the timing-power his market status gave him.

Duran beat Hagler much easier over 12 than Leonard did. The extra fat on his natural lightweight/light-welter body took his gas in those championship rounds. Whether to actually credit Duran for his performance is up for debate, as he really had no business at 160lbs, and should have been taken out in devastating fashion (ala Hearns) by any Middleweight Champion worth their salt.

I'm a fan of both Leonard and Hagler, but they're both overrated.

pambele · Post by **pambele** » 01 Jul 2005, 06:29

When it comes to judging a fighter on reputation - or on cold, hard facts - I know which one I choose. Tony Ayala built up a fearsome reputation after extending Pipino Cuevas in sparring as a 14-year-old. As a pro, he was promoted by Lou "This kid coulda been the greatest fighter in the world" Duva, a man well known for over-emotion.
But the record doesn't lie.
Ayala beat one world-rated fighter - the lanky, fragile Carlos Herrera. The rest were handpicked, and the most dangerous, Mario Maldonado, actually dropped Little Bull. It's all very well saying he could have done this and done that. He didn't. He punked out in both his pro careers.
FACT.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 01 Jul 2005, 13:20

Jukejar, get over yourself. I was responding to several peoples posts not you personally. If your that sensitive maybe you should go visit a forum about flowers or perfume rather than a tough subject like the boxing game.

PS i wasnt judging Durans whole career on the 2nd Leonard fight btw, never said i was.

I still stand by the opinion that you have all decided Ayala loses because of a "Tyson-bully come uppence scenario" is a totally lazy stand point given the facts & doesnt take any boxing knowledge whatsoever because its been written a million times over ad nauseum.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 01 Jul 2005, 13:34

Duran beat Hagler much easier over 12 than Leonard did.

says Manos de Oro.

I wasn't aware that Duran beat Hagler.

Seems to me Duran lost a split decision to Hagler....in reality it was unaimous. The judges were blind. I watched the fight, and Duran was never in it, and lost at least 9 rounds of of the 12.

Jukejar · Post by **Jukejar** » 01 Jul 2005, 16:05

Gee, overhand_right, thanks for pointing that out. I do feel better now that you've increased my self-knowledge and I have discovered a wonderful forum that discusses the questions as to whether poinsettas should really be only a seasonal flower or perhaps deserve to be enjoyed all year long. Finally, thanks to your wonderful insight, I can now say that I am over myself.

Thanks also for your demonstrating, through facts, the greatness of Tony Ayala, whose "bully" reputation was clearly contrived by the misintrepretation of his actions in the ring those many years ago. My observations of his ring character and deportment are undoubtedly influenced by the opinions which have apparently filled boxing journals and forums in the years since. I really should read more so that I can get a sense of such things instead of relying on my own admittedly near-senile memory. Again, thank you for the opportunity to get over myself. Now, I really must decide whether tulips are indeed a flower that works in July--so much controvery . . .

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Jul 2005, 17:28

ringsider. actually HAGLER WON BY UNANIMOUS DECISION. he was trailing by two scorecards after 13th but won the last two rounds to win the unanimous decision .

scorecards 144-142 146-145 and 144-143.

MANOS how the hell could u say leonard and hagler are overated. if their overated then who the hell is not overated?????
Hagler top 5 all time middleweight, and leonard 2nd best welterwight of all time.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 01 Jul 2005, 18:02

ringsider wrote:
Duran beat Hagler much easier over 12 than Leonard did.
says Manos de Oro.

I wasn't aware that Duran beat Hagler. Seems to me Duran lost a split decision to Hagler....in reality it was unaimous. The judges were blind. I watched the fight, and Duran was never in it, and lost at least 9 rounds of of the 12.

Seems you can't read as well as see:

Manos de Oro wrote:The extra fat on his natural lightweight/light-welter body took his gas in those championship rounds.

Brockton: get tapes of as many Hagler fights you won't find on "Best Of" collections as you can, then see what you think. Strive for a picture of The Complete Marvin Hagler. Search for newspaper reports about the pre-fight build up to his fights, watch the fights with no sound, then analyze the post-fight reactions. You have a great start considering you're from MA.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Jul 2005, 10:48

The Complete Marvin Hagler.

Is a foot in the bucket southpaw plodder.........over rated.

Dapaper · Post by **Dapaper** » 02 Jul 2005, 10:58

The only sad thing is that nobody put a bullet in Ayala's head before he got a chance to hurt people.

-Dapa

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:10

ringsider wrote:
The Complete Marvin Hagler.

Is a foot in the bucket southpaw plodder.........over rated.

To be fair to Marvin, he could look great when he circled and threw out that elongated jab (Briscoe, Sibson spring to mind), but "a foot in the bucket southpaw plodder" is a pretty damn accurate description of Hagler at his most mediocre.