Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Cholo]

Rick, I've come across a photo of you and Johnny Flores, i've read alot on Johnny Flores on this thread, now i can put a face to his name. Old school trainers who knew there stuff, couldn't we do with them today, Great photo Rick.

[CNorkusJr]

Received this email from Pres of Ring 10 here in NY.
Because some of its info contains "Knotts Berry Farm" I am posting it here for anyone who might help this gentleman.
Please reply directly with any info to Matt Farago at [email protected]
Thank You.
The message as follows:

Hello my name is gary and i'm tring to find my grandfather who was a boxer.
> > my mother called you a couple of days ago.She told me to send you this info.
> >
> > His name is Halsey Henry nelson
> > Born in aulsable NY Clinton co.
> > died in Bridgeport CT. in 1957-58
> >
> > Boxing Names were---- battling nelson or battling kid nelson
> >
> > His picture used to hang in the knott's berry farm sports room in the 70's
> >
> >
> > He fought a boxer by the name Flash Fisher and broke his jaw.
> > I dont know what year or where.
> > from what i could gather. My grandfather fought mostley in NY.
> > Thank you for taking the time to check this out.
> > Gary

[Rick Farris]

Rick, I've come across a photo of you and Johnny Flores, i've read alot on Johnny Flores on this thread, now i can put a face to his name. Old school trainers who knew there stuff, couldn't we do with them today, Great photo Rick.

Johnny is a legend in Los Angeles amateur boxing, and had a legendary career handling professionals.
He took a tough 7-year-old named Jerry Quarry, guided him to L.A. Jr. Golden Gloves titles, a Nat'l GG's heavyweight championship, all the way to a couple shots at the world heavyweight title.
I was proud to be a part of the Johnny Flores stable. Johnny was a smart man, and had a strong personna, he could stand up and look you in the eye, he had balls.
A heavily decorated hero of WW2.

[Rick Farris]

Received this email from Pres of Ring 10 here in NY.
Because some of its info contains "Knotts Berry Farm" I am posting it here for anyone who might help this gentleman.
Please reply directly with any info to Matt Farago at [email protected]
Thank You.
The message as follows:

Hello my name is gary and i'm tring to find my grandfather who was a boxer.
> > my mother called you a couple of days ago.She told me to send you this info.
> >
> > His name is Halsey Henry nelson
> > Born in aulsable NY Clinton co.
> > died in Bridgeport CT. in 1957-58
> >
> > Boxing Names were---- battling nelson or battling kid nelson
> >
> > His picture used to hang in the knott's berry farm sports room in the 70's
> >
> >
> > He fought a boxer by the name Flash Fisher and broke his jaw.
> > I dont know what year or where.
> > from what i could gather. My grandfather fought mostley in NY.
> > Thank you for taking the time to check this out.
> > Gary

Sorry I can't help, but I found it interesting that you mention something about Knott's Berry Farm, and a boxer named "Nelson".
Back in the 60's, the amusement park played host to a small boxing museum inside a section of the legendary "Jim Jeffries Barn".
The museum had an on-site boxing historian present to talk boxing with anybody who cared to. His name was Al Nelson.
When Nelson passed decades back, the museum disappeared and I'm not sure of the barn's status at the moment.
Never heard of the boxer mentioned.

[Chuck1052]

I have read that there was an effort to match Art Aragon with Sugar Ray Robinson during the middle 1950s, but the California State Athletic Commission wouldn't permit such a bout.

- Chuck Johnston

[Rick Farris]

Paul, have you seen the Gil Cadilli documentary "Fight for Life"? I assume you have.
If not, you will love it. It's on Youtube.

Pt. 1-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsRxcs9r1GU

[Cholo]

Paul, have you seen the Gil Cadilli documentary "Fight for Life"? I assume you have.
If not, you will love it. It's on Youtube.

Pt. 1-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsRxcs9r1GU

Rick, I've seen the Cadilli documentary, excellent film by Cadilli jnr. Still waiting for someone to do a documentary on "Golden Boy" Aragon or the history of L.A. Boxing..

[Cholo]

I have read that there was an effort to match Art Aragon with Sugar Ray Robinson during the middle 1950s, but the California State Athletic Commission wouldn't permit such a bout.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck, I've read that as well, if you watch the Robinson/Olson Wrigley Field fight from 1956, Aragon is seated ringside with his trainer Lee Boren..

[Cholo]

Rick, I've come across a photo of you and Johnny Flores, i've read alot on Johnny Flores on this thread, now i can put a face to his name. Old school trainers who knew there stuff, couldn't we do with them today, Great photo Rick.

Johnny is a legend in Los Angeles amateur boxing, and had a legendary career handling professionals.
He took a tough 7-year-old named Jerry Quarry, guided him to L.A. Jr. Golden Gloves titles, a Nat'l GG's heavyweight championship, all the way to a couple shots at the world heavyweight title.
I was proud to be a part of the Johnny Flores stable. Johnny was a smart man, and had a strong personna, he could stand up and look you in the eye, he had balls.
A heavily decorated hero of WW2.

Rick, Thanks for the info on Johnny Flores, i appreciate it buddy..

[Cholo]

From The Ring September 1956 Aragon/Robinson,
At this time of writing, Aragon is engaged in a campaign, seeking to force Sugar Ray Robinson into a title fight. The newly appointed State Athletic Commission of California turned thumbs down on the match in there first official meeting. They have nixed the bout in a subsequent get together. Had the fight gone on it seems probable that it would have drawn $350,000, maybe even a $500,000 gate in Los Angeles.

[Rick Farris]

Paul, have you seen the Gil Cadilli documentary "Fight for Life"? I assume you have.
If not, you will love it. It's on Youtube.

Pt. 1-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsRxcs9r1GU

Rick, I've seen the Cadilli documentary, excellent film by Cadilli jnr. Still waiting for someone to do a documentary on "Golden Boy" Aragon or the history of L.A. Boxing..

I would love such a film, but few of the people who are capable of telling the story from first hand experience are still around.
The info is still there, and a film could be made, but the truth is, there is no interest or demand in such a project beyond this thread.
If I had two years, a huge budget, and a belief that there was more than a dozen people who gave a damn, I'd do it as best I could.
You are right, Paul. It could be done so well and it would be very interesting as it brings together the best of boxing and the best of entertainment.
However, knowing the direction of the film world these days, I'm pretty confident such a project will never come to be. Only a few people could make it happen, and those people are almost gone. I would love to write the Art Aragon book, but I'm not the best guy to do it. I heard of the era, and feel it, but I never lived it, I was a kid. I could do one about my era in L.A. boxing and I with my film making knowledge could do a good one. The reason I have no plans to do so is that I understand that this is something that will only interest a few people, regardless of how well it is done. I have been planning to write a book on my era, but I refuse to self publish and sell books out of the trunk of my car as most boxing people do. At this stage, I prefer to interview on film boxing legends whom I know have a great story to tell, and I archive those interviews for future use and reference. From those interviews a film will eventuall surface. I will also write my stories for the world to see right here. I'm not motivated by money, I'm all about the fighters and the history remaining correct. I will write my stories, and with the help of my amigo Dan Hanley, we will interview the legends. One day we will produce something. I also plan to write the Mando Ramos story, as I know that I have my own story to tell relating to Mando Ramos. I would prefer to give that story to boxing, as opposed to sell it hoping to profit from it. I was very happy to see the new Jerry Quarry book come out recently "Hard Luck". It was well done, but I found many inaccuracies as the writers were forced to go on the info that was related thru the Quarry family. It was not completely accurate relating to "who" was responsible for Jerry's early management. In due course, I will continue to write L.A. boxing history, and eventually a project will surface that excites me. I have talked to Audie about an Aragon project, but I told him should he ever attempt such a thing, I wold use all of my resources to help him if possible. I refer all the info you and Frank contribute here on Art to Audie. I want to help the Golden Boy's son know his dad's career. I do this not because Audie is Art's son, but because he's been a good friend of mine on some big feature films for more than thirty years.

[Rick Farris]

From The Ring September 1956 Aragon/Robinson,
At this time of writing, Aragon is engaged in a campaign, seeking to force Sugar Ray Robinson into a title fight. The newly appointed State Athletic Commission of California turned thumbs down on the match in there first official meeting. They have nixed the bout in a subsequent get together. Had the fight gone on it seems probable that it would have drawn $350,000, maybe even a $500,000 gate in Los Angeles.

That would have been a huge box office success here.
Too bad they didn't fight, but I don't think it would have played out well for the Golden Boy in the ring.

[Cholo]

Paul, have you seen the Gil Cadilli documentary "Fight for Life"? I assume you have.
If not, you will love it. It's on Youtube.

Pt. 1-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsRxcs9r1GU

Rick, I've seen the Cadilli documentary, excellent film by Cadilli jnr. Still waiting for someone to do a documentary on "Golden Boy" Aragon or the history of L.A. Boxing..

I would love such a film, but few of the people who are capable of telling the story from first hand experience are still around.
The info is still there, and a film could be made, but the truth is, there is no interest or demand in such a project beyond this thread.
If I had two years, a huge budget, and a belief that there was more than a dozen people who gave a damn, I'd do it as best I could.
You are right, Paul. It could be done so well and it would be very interesting as it brings together the best of boxing and the best of entertainment.
However, knowing the direction of the film world these days, I'm pretty confident such a project will never come to be. Only a few people could make it happen, and those people are almost gone. I would love to write the Art Aragon book, but I'm not the best guy to do it. I heard of the era, and feel it, but I never lived it, I was a kid. I could do one about my era in L.A. boxing and I with my film making knowledge could do a good one. The reason I have no plans to do so is that I understand that this is something that will only interest a few people, regardless of how well it is done. I have been planning to write a book on my era, but I refuse to self publish and sell books out of the trunk of my car as most boxing people do. At this stage, I prefer to interview on film boxing legends whom I know have a great story to tell, and I archive those interviews for future use and reference. From those interviews a film will eventuall surface. I will also write my stories for the world to see right here. I'm not motivated by money, I'm all about the fighters and the history remaining correct. I will write my stories, and with the help of my amigo Dan Hanley, we will interview the legends. One day we will produce something. I also plan to write the Mando Ramos story, as I know that I have my own story to tell relating to Mando Ramos. I would prefer to give that story to boxing, as opposed to sell it hoping to profit from it. I was very happy to see the new Jerry Quarry book come out recently "Hard Luck". It was well done, but I found many inaccuracies as the writers were forced to go on the info that was related thru the Quarry family. It was not completely accurate relating to "who" was responsible for Jerry's early management. In due course, I will continue to write L.A. boxing history, and eventually a project will surface that excites me. I have talked to Audie about an Aragon project, but I told him should he ever attempt such a thing, I wold use all of my resources to help him if possible. I refer all the info you and Frank contribute here on Art to Audie. I want to help the Golden Boy's son know his dad's career. I do this not because Audie is Art's son, but because he's been a good friend of mine on some big feature films for more than thirty years.

Rick, I understand, would be great if Audie could do something, there must be loads of old archive film gathering dust of the "Golden Boy" and other greats from that golden era..

[Cholo]

From The Ring September 1956 Aragon/Robinson,
At this time of writing, Aragon is engaged in a campaign, seeking to force Sugar Ray Robinson into a title fight. The newly appointed State Athletic Commission of California turned thumbs down on the match in there first official meeting. They have nixed the bout in a subsequent get together. Had the fight gone on it seems probable that it would have drawn $350,000, maybe even a $500,000 gate in Los Angeles.

That would have been a huge box office success here.
Too bad they didn't fight, but I don't think it would have played out well for the Golden Boy in the ring.

Rick, Would have been a tough one for the "Golden Boy", don't think Art was a middleweight. Frank/Rick, do you think the late 40's early 50's would have been Art's peak years?.
I found this piece, Art talking, "The most i ever trained in my life was a month, six weeks. I didn't like training. Jim Murray[the acclaimed LA sports writer] asked me one time 'Art, we know you hate training. What do you hate the most? The boxing, the sparring, the roadwork?' I said yes!'

[kikibalt]

Old Baldy vs. Old Bones - SI June/1/1959

Old Baldy Vs. Old Bones
Defending his lightweight title, Joe Brown stakes it against Paolo Rosi
by Martin Kane


The lightweight division, the one in which there is more action in the ring than in the hearing rooms of boxing commissions, has a modest surplus of legitimate contenders for the title. One of these worthy opponents, ranked No. 3 by the National Boxing Association, gets a proper chance at the championship in Washington, D.C. next week.

This No. 3 contender is Paolo Rosi, a balding bleeder in his 30s, a naturalized Italian who has proudly named one of his sons Dwight (for Ike) and the other Kenneth because it is so American. Paolo is essentially a club fighter, grotesque in style but remarkably effective against prettier men. On the night of June 3 he will be up against one of the prettier and prosier-named champions, Joe Brown, in one of the more attractive of TV's Wednesday Night Fights.

Joe has been a fighting champion, as the term is measured in these days of high taxes that generally make it unprofitable for a titleholder to risk his championship more than a couple of times a year. This will be Brown's seventh defense in little more than two years, and his 100th professional fight in 13 years of campaigning. Before that he was the Navy's lightweight champion during World War II, winning 16 fights between seven landings in the Pacific.

In contrast to Rosi, who is principally a slugger and taker, Brown is in the tradition of the truly knowing masters of the moves.

Paolo's brown eyes are ever a clear and present danger to his survival. He has had mounds of sensitive scar tissue removed from above them by surgery. But even so he has not lost a fight since December 1956, when he was stopped in the seventh (on a cut) by Baby Vasquez. Since then Paolo has rehabilitated himself with a decision over Vasquez and has destroyed the hopes of such wistful fellows as Frankie Ryff and Bobby Scanlon, both of whom, like Joe Brown, are sleek boxers. (What they lack, though, is the essential wisdom of the even sleeker Brown.) Paolo has, furthermore, beaten Johnny Busso, a club fighter who beat Brown when the title was not at stake, then made Brown look less than magnificent when the title was at stake.

The Brown-Rosi fight is, therefore, a natural sort of match, since it pits a sturdy puncher with a good left hook, conqueror of stylists and starchers, against a boxer-puncher of the old school, a sly trickster who can hit with either hand and doesn't care which.

Brown, who is known as Old Bones although he is a mere 33 by the official count and has not begun to approach the venerable status of an Archie Moore, has shown recent signs that he is about ready to be taken—not necessarily by Rosi but certainly, in due course, by one of the higher-ranking contenders.

There is, for instance, top-ranked Kenny Lane, the southpaw who was a mere point away from a draw and two points from the title when he met Brown last July at Houston. There is Carlos Ortiz, the young No. 2 challenger, a superior boxer and stout puncher now about to campaign against Lane in the regrettably revived junior welterweight division. On a good night, with a little bit of luck, either of these fighters might take Brown.

And so, for that matter, might Rosi, assuming that Old Bones is really over the hill, that time has drawn the temper of his ancipital weapons, and that he is about ready, as he himself has hinted in informal discourse, to pack it in for a lifetime of rest and contemplation of the better things.

The first hint that the end might be in sight for this once murderous puncher came on the night of the Lane fight, when his failure to handle an awkward situation with more than adequate grace was put down to the fact that he was baffled by Lane's southpaw stance and delivery. It was a forgivable lapse, but then in his next fight Brown was actually beaten by Busso in a 10-round over-the-weight contest. Well, it was assumed, that just meant Old Joe was shrewdly losing for the double purpose of building up a return match against Busso—this time for the title—and was trying to avoid a return match against Lane, who clearly deserved one. Still, when the title was at stake in the second Busso fight, Old Bones looked just barely good enough to win—and you can throw out some lopsided Houston judging in his favor.


This is not to suggest that Old Baldy is going to beat Old Bones. The odds at this distance from the fight seem a correct 2 to 1 in the champion's favor. But this coming Wednesday night will be a time to look keenly at Joe for those signs of disintegration that presage an early change in the championship.

[Rick Farris]

Rick, I've seen the Cadilli documentary, excellent film by Cadilli jnr. Still waiting for someone to do a documentary on "Golden Boy" Aragon or the history of L.A. Boxing..

I would love such a film, but few of the people who are capable of telling the story from first hand experience are still around.
The info is still there, and a film could be made, but the truth is, there is no interest or demand in such a project beyond this thread.
If I had two years, a huge budget, and a belief that there was more than a dozen people who gave a damn, I'd do it as best I could.
You are right, Paul. It could be done so well and it would be very interesting as it brings together the best of boxing and the best of entertainment.
However, knowing the direction of the film world these days, I'm pretty confident such a project will never come to be. Only a few people could make it happen, and those people are almost gone. I would love to write the Art Aragon book, but I'm not the best guy to do it. I heard of the era, and feel it, but I never lived it, I was a kid. I could do one about my era in L.A. boxing and I with my film making knowledge could do a good one. The reason I have no plans to do so is that I understand that this is something that will only interest a few people, regardless of how well it is done. I have been planning to write a book on my era, but I refuse to self publish and sell books out of the trunk of my car as most boxing people do. At this stage, I prefer to interview on film boxing legends whom I know have a great story to tell, and I archive those interviews for future use and reference. From those interviews a film will eventuall surface. I will also write my stories for the world to see right here. I'm not motivated by money, I'm all about the fighters and the history remaining correct. I will write my stories, and with the help of my amigo Dan Hanley, we will interview the legends. One day we will produce something. I also plan to write the Mando Ramos story, as I know that I have my own story to tell relating to Mando Ramos. I would prefer to give that story to boxing, as opposed to sell it hoping to profit from it. I was very happy to see the new Jerry Quarry book come out recently "Hard Luck". It was well done, but I found many inaccuracies as the writers were forced to go on the info that was related thru the Quarry family. It was not completely accurate relating to "who" was responsible for Jerry's early management. In due course, I will continue to write L.A. boxing history, and eventually a project will surface that excites me. I have talked to Audie about an Aragon project, but I told him should he ever attempt such a thing, I wold use all of my resources to help him if possible. I refer all the info you and Frank contribute here on Art to Audie. I want to help the Golden Boy's son know his dad's career. I do this not because Audie is Art's son, but because he's been a good friend of mine on some big feature films for more than thirty years.

Rick, I understand, would be great if Audie could do something, there must be loads of old archive film gathering dust of the "Golden Boy" and other greats from that golden era..

An Aragon family imposter?

Here's something you'll find interesting, Paul. Audie was telling me recently that a few years ago, some guy knocks on his father's door and introduced himself as "Joey Aragon". He tells the Golden Boy that he is a distant relative and wants to interview Art. At the time, Art's mind was slipping and he enjoyed talking with his visitor about his career. Audie was skeptical. The guy became a regular guest and began filming Art as he was interviewed. Joey Aragon's plan was to make a documentary on Art Aragon, and Audie discovered that the man was not related to the family. I remember Audie mentioning this when we were doing the movie "Poseiden" in 2005. I told Audie I'd like to interview Art on film, and he was agreeable as he knows and trusts me. Of course, at the time I was not able to get a film team together as I have now, and bit over a year later Art was gone. Toward the end, Art was more likely to bend the truth in such interviews to make them interesting. I love the legends that have come out of Aragon's career, but I want the truth, what really went on. I get that truth through Hap Navarro and Don Fraser. I was lucky enough to copy many of Hap's posts from the old CBZ "History of L.A. Boxing" forum. The best of that thread was lost due to some cyber mistake, but I have hard copies of much of it in my files. I will dig those posts out one day and put them in this thread, where they belong.

[Cholo]

Rick, I've been reading up on "Hap" Navarro and Don Fraser, "Hap" was matchmaker at the Hollywood Legion Stadium, Don Fraser who is good friends with Frank, served as promoter, matchmaker, manager, publicist, writer, executive and corner man in a long career dedicated to boxing. The documentary "Toy Tiger" has Don Fraser talking in it about Art Hafey, i'm learning a lot about these great L.A. fight game figures, thanks to you and Frank..

[Cholo]

Old Baldy vs. Old Bones - SI June/1/1959

Old Baldy Vs. Old Bones
Defending his lightweight title, Joe Brown stakes it against Paolo Rosi
by Martin Kane


The lightweight division, the one in which there is more action in the ring than in the hearing rooms of boxing commissions, has a modest surplus of legitimate contenders for the title. One of these worthy opponents, ranked No. 3 by the National Boxing Association, gets a proper chance at the championship in Washington, D.C. next week.

This No. 3 contender is Paolo Rosi, a balding bleeder in his 30s, a naturalized Italian who has proudly named one of his sons Dwight (for Ike) and the other Kenneth because it is so American. Paolo is essentially a club fighter, grotesque in style but remarkably effective against prettier men. On the night of June 3 he will be up against one of the prettier and prosier-named champions, Joe Brown, in one of the more attractive of TV's Wednesday Night Fights.

Joe has been a fighting champion, as the term is measured in these days of high taxes that generally make it unprofitable for a titleholder to risk his championship more than a couple of times a year. This will be Brown's seventh defense in little more than two years, and his 100th professional fight in 13 years of campaigning. Before that he was the Navy's lightweight champion during World War II, winning 16 fights between seven landings in the Pacific.

In contrast to Rosi, who is principally a slugger and taker, Brown is in the tradition of the truly knowing masters of the moves.

Paolo's brown eyes are ever a clear and present danger to his survival. He has had mounds of sensitive scar tissue removed from above them by surgery. But even so he has not lost a fight since December 1956, when he was stopped in the seventh (on a cut) by Baby Vasquez. Since then Paolo has rehabilitated himself with a decision over Vasquez and has destroyed the hopes of such wistful fellows as Frankie Ryff and Bobby Scanlon, both of whom, like Joe Brown, are sleek boxers. (What they lack, though, is the essential wisdom of the even sleeker Brown.) Paolo has, furthermore, beaten Johnny Busso, a club fighter who beat Brown when the title was not at stake, then made Brown look less than magnificent when the title was at stake.

The Brown-Rosi fight is, therefore, a natural sort of match, since it pits a sturdy puncher with a good left hook, conqueror of stylists and starchers, against a boxer-puncher of the old school, a sly trickster who can hit with either hand and doesn't care which.

Brown, who is known as Old Bones although he is a mere 33 by the official count and has not begun to approach the venerable status of an Archie Moore, has shown recent signs that he is about ready to be taken—not necessarily by Rosi but certainly, in due course, by one of the higher-ranking contenders.

There is, for instance, top-ranked Kenny Lane, the southpaw who was a mere point away from a draw and two points from the title when he met Brown last July at Houston. There is Carlos Ortiz, the young No. 2 challenger, a superior boxer and stout puncher now about to campaign against Lane in the regrettably revived junior welterweight division. On a good night, with a little bit of luck, either of these fighters might take Brown.

And so, for that matter, might Rosi, assuming that Old Bones is really over the hill, that time has drawn the temper of his ancipital weapons, and that he is about ready, as he himself has hinted in informal discourse, to pack it in for a lifetime of rest and contemplation of the better things.

The first hint that the end might be in sight for this once murderous puncher came on the night of the Lane fight, when his failure to handle an awkward situation with more than adequate grace was put down to the fact that he was baffled by Lane's southpaw stance and delivery. It was a forgivable lapse, but then in his next fight Brown was actually beaten by Busso in a 10-round over-the-weight contest. Well, it was assumed, that just meant Old Joe was shrewdly losing for the double purpose of building up a return match against Busso—this time for the title—and was trying to avoid a return match against Lane, who clearly deserved one. Still, when the title was at stake in the second Busso fight, Old Bones looked just barely good enough to win—and you can throw out some lopsided Houston judging in his favor.


This is not to suggest that Old Baldy is going to beat Old Bones. The odds at this distance from the fight seem a correct 2 to 1 in the champion's favor. But this coming Wednesday night will be a time to look keenly at Joe for those signs of disintegration that presage an early change in the championship.

Frank, Great piece on "Old Bones", he defeated Dave Charnley twice, TKO'd him in Houston and outpointed him in London, 1961. "Old Bones" had 162 bouts..

[kikibalt]

Frank, Great piece on "Old Bones", he defeated Dave Charnley twice, TKO'd him in Houston and outpointed him in London, 1961. "Old Bones" had 162 bouts..

Paul, "Old Bones" was a great fighter. I seen him fight when he was still a young fighter. I seen him lose to Tommy Campbell in 1951 (Olympic Auditorium) and in 1950, again losing to John L. Davis (Hollywood Legion), also in '51 I seen him beat Baby Ortiz by second round ko (Ocean Park Arena).

[Rick Farris]

Frank, Great piece on "Old Bones", he defeated Dave Charnley twice, TKO'd him in Houston and outpointed him in London, 1961. "Old Bones" had 162 bouts..

Paul, "Old Bones" was a great fighter. I seen him fight when he was still a young fighter. I seen him lose to Tommy Campbell in 1951 (Olympic Auditorium) and in 1950, again losing to John L. Davis (Hollywood Legion), also in '51 I seen him beat Baby Ortiz by second round ko (Ocean Park Arena).

Frank, good piece on Joe Brown and Rosi.
Speaking of Rosi, do you remember Bobby Scanlon, or ever have a chance to see him fight?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(From Boxrec)

Bobby Scanlon . . .

Bobby Scanlon had a very difficult childhood growing up in Father Baker's orphanage. Possessing choirboy looks, Scanlon was frequently the target of tougher kids. Scanlon turned to boxing and became the orphanage champion. He began his pro career in mid 1954. During the first two-and-a-half years of his career, he was undefeated in 22 fights. He competed mainly in New York City, with occasional stops in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Erie, Pennsylvania.

His sister, Carol, remembers her brother driving his powder-blue Thunderbird around the First Ward. He is also remembered as a very generous brother who returned home during the Christmas season to buy gifts for his sisters. Bobby Scanlon's manager, Mike Scanlon (no relation), then moved Bobby and his other three fighters--Rocky Fumerelle, Richie Todaro and Joey Giambra--to San Francisco in 1957. After a brief stay Todaro returned to Buffalo. The remaining three fighters occupied the same house along with Mike Scanlon, and they all became top contenders in their divisions. Scanlon improved his winning streak to 32 in California. He defeated such top fighters as Lauro Salas, Wallace (Bud) Smith, Joey Lopes and Dave Gallardo.

Following the March 1957 fight with Davy Gallardo, Scanlon broke with his manager Mike Scanlon. Bobby was already showing a dislike for the tough training techniques utilized by Mike. His contract was purchased by Art Benjamin, and later by Nick Kobseff and Lou Sabella. Fred Apostoli, former middleweight champion, would later become Bobby Scanlon's trainer.

According to Rocky Fumerelle, "Bobby Scanlon was his own worst enemy." Scanlon was good-looking and a good fighter. He was very popular among the Irish of San Francisco. If he would have remained in better shape and maintained a regular training schedule, "I have little doubt that Bobby Scanlon would have been the Lightweight champion of the world."

From late 1958 to early 1960 Scanlon not only saw his winning streak come to an end, but he also lost five of seven fights. Scanlon's winning streak came to an end when he suffered a third-round knockout to Paolo Rosi. Prior to this fight Scanlon was rated third in the Lightweight Division behind Rosi and Carlos Ortiz. Soon after his initial loss to Rosi, Scanlon lost another ten-round decision to Paolo. Scanlon also lost a pair of ten-round decisions to Johnny Gonsalves, as well as a decision to Al Urbina. But Scanlon did win a big ten-round decision over Orlando Zulueta.

Scanlon then returned to Buffalo to fight fellow Buffalonian Jackie Donnelly. In a hard-fought 12-round fight, Scanlon won the New York State Lightweight championship. It was one of Scanlon's biggest paydays, as he collected $4,937 for the fight.

Following the first Johnny Gonsalves fight, Scanlon began to suffer double vision. It got worse as he prepared for the second fight with Gonsalves. The problem continued through the Jackie Donnelly fight, as well as an August fight with Francisco Santos. Scanlon laid off from boxing for a year before he returned to fighting again in 1962. Things were not the same. In addition to the double vision, Scanlon had suffered a serious kidney and liver infection. He changed managers four times, and saw his level of competition go down, losing seven of his last thirteen fights.

Although Scanlon was fighting less frequently in 1965 and 1966, he was still experiencing eye problems. He retired from boxing in mid-1966. After he retired from the ring everything went downhill. Early in his boxing career Scanlon had been offered a job in public relations with the Oakland Raiders football team, but now there were few job offers. Although he became deeply religious, his physical and mental health began to deteriorate. Scanlon was struggling to adjust to life without boxing, struggling to restore some meaning to his life, when he died in a fire at the Hotel Lackawanna on June 23, 1975. He was only 39 years old. His final record was 42-12-1.

[kikibalt]

Frank, Great piece on "Old Bones", he defeated Dave Charnley twice, TKO'd him in Houston and outpointed him in London, 1961. "Old Bones" had 162 bouts..

Paul, "Old Bones" was a great fighter. I seen him fight when he was still a young fighter. I seen him lose to Tommy Campbell in 1951 (Olympic Auditorium) and in 1950, again losing to John L. Davis (Hollywood Legion), also in '51 I seen him beat Baby Ortiz by second round ko (Ocean Park Arena).

Frank, good piece on Joe Brown and Rosi.
Speaking of Rosi, do you remember Bobby Scanlon, or ever have a chance to see him fight?
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Bobby Scanlon . . .

(From Boxrec) Bobby Scanlon had a very difficult childhood growing up in Father Baker's orphanage. Possessing choirboy looks, Scanlon was frequently the target of tougher kids. Scanlon turned to boxing and became the orphanage champion. He began his pro career in mid 1954. During the first two-and-a-half years of his career, he was undefeated in 22 fights. He competed mainly in New York City, with occasional stops in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Erie, Pennsylvania.

His sister, Carol, remembers her brother driving his powder-blue Thunderbird around the First Ward. He is also remembered as a very generous brother who returned home during the Christmas season to buy gifts for his sisters. Bobby Scanlon's manager, Mike Scanlon (no relation), then moved Bobby and his other three fighters--Rocky Fumerelle, Richie Todaro and Joey Giambra--to San Francisco in 1957. After a brief stay Todaro returned to Buffalo. The remaining three fighters occupied the same house along with Mike Scanlon, and they all became top contenders in their divisions. Scanlon improved his winning streak to 32 in California. He defeated such top fighters as Lauro Salas, Wallace (Bud) Smith, Joey Lopes and Dave Gallardo.

Following the March 1957 fight with Davy Gallardo, Scanlon broke with his manager Mike Scanlon. Bobby was already showing a dislike for the tough training techniques utilized by Mike. His contract was purchased by Art Benjamin, and later by Nick Kobseff and Lou Sabella. Fred Apostoli, former middleweight champion, would later become Bobby Scanlon's trainer.

According to Rocky Fumerelle, "Bobby Scanlon was his own worst enemy." Scanlon was good-looking and a good fighter. He was very popular among the Irish of San Francisco. If he would have remained in better shape and maintained a regular training schedule, "I have little doubt that Bobby Scanlon would have been the Lightweight champion of the world."

From late 1958 to early 1960 Scanlon not only saw his winning streak come to an end, but he also lost five of seven fights. Scanlon's winning streak came to an end when he suffered a third-round knockout to Paolo Rosi. Prior to this fight Scanlon was rated third in the Lightweight Division behind Rosi and Carlos Ortiz. Soon after his initial loss to Rosi, Scanlon lost another ten-round decision to Paolo. Scanlon also lost a pair of ten-round decisions to Johnny Gonsalves, as well as a decision to Al Urbina. But Scanlon did win a big ten-round decision over Orlando Zulueta.

Scanlon then returned to Buffalo to fight fellow Buffalonian Jackie Donnelly. In a hard-fought 12-round fight, Scanlon won the New York State Lightweight championship. It was one of Scanlon's biggest paydays, as he collected $4,937 for the fight.

Following the first Johnny Gonsalves fight, Scanlon began to suffer double vision. It got worse as he prepared for the second fight with Gonsalves. The problem continued through the Jackie Donnelly fight, as well as an August fight with Francisco Santos. Scanlon laid off from boxing for a year before he returned to fighting again in 1962. Things were not the same. In addition to the double vision, Scanlon had suffered a serious kidney and liver infection. He changed managers four times, and saw his level of competition go down, losing seven of his last thirteen fights.

Although Scanlon was fighting less frequently in 1965 and 1966, he was still experiencing eye problems. He retired from boxing in mid-1966. After he retired from the ring everything went downhill. Early in his boxing career Scanlon had been offered a job in public relations with the Oakland Raiders football team, but now there were few job offers. Although he became deeply religious, his physical and mental health began to deteriorate. Scanlon was struggling to adjust to life without boxing, struggling to restore some meaning to his life, when he died in a fire at the Hotel Lackawanna on June 23, 1975. He was only 39 years old. His final record was 42-12-1.

Yeah, I remember Bobby Scanlon. Seen him a few time, albeit only on TV that I can remember. He was a good fighter...

[Rick Farris]

Rick, I've been reading up on "Hap" Navarro and Don Fraser, "Hap" was matchmaker at the Hollywood Legion Stadium, Don Fraser who is good friends with Frank, served as promoter, matchmaker, manager, publicist, writer, executive and corner man in a long career dedicated to boxing. The documentary "Toy Tiger" has Don Fraser talking in it about Art Hafey, i'm learning a lot about these great L.A. fight game figures, thanks to you and Frank..

Fraser on Hafey . . .

Don Fraser knew that Art Hafey, a tough customer for any top 126 pounder, lacked the appeal of other top featherweights of the era.
Fraser believed that Art was just too quiet and humble for his own good. Don referred to Art as, "Whispering Smith".
And for the record, the Hafey bio "Toy Tiger" is biased. I helped Brad Little get interviews for this.
Little believed that Art was the victim of politics, the reason he never got a title fight. Prejudice against the white fighter in L.A. from Latino fans.
The truth is, he was a cut below the Lopez's, Chacon's, Arguello's and Olivares' on a good night.
Bazooka Limon would have axed Hafey in due course, had Art's career survived the Lopez bout.
I was an active featherweight in LA when Hafey came to town. When Brad Little asked my opinion of Hafey, I told him.
Little told me I didn't know the era in LA boxing. Brad Little was born in Canada in 1972, the year I boxed with Art Hafey in the Elks Club gym during the summer.
Some ideas you can sell, but you'll never sell that one to anybody who was around LA in the 70's.
I truly like and respect Art Hafey, but you can only attempt to bend history so far.
You'll notice none of many interviews Brad had with me made the film. My history did not compliment his.

Memories of an L.A. guy.

[Randyman]

I received this email from my friend Bill O'Neill on the passing of his wife Shirley O'Neill. Rick and Frank both know Bill, for those that don't, Bill is a retired Southern California sports/boxing writer, former amateur boxer and a great friend to boxing. our condolences to the O'Neill family.

To: Family and Friends:

The past three days have been the saddest of my life. My dear Shirley passed away peacefully yesterday morning, June 2, after suffering a sudden, devastating stroke twenty-four hours earlier.

There shall be a funeral service at 2 p.m. next Thursday, July 9, at Memory Garden Memorial Park, 455 West Central Ave., Brea, CA., followed by a buffet dinner at a restaurant location to be announced (with a map) at the funeral service.

Please hold Shirley in your prayers. God bless us all.

Bill O'Neill

[kikibalt]

Connie and I. New Year Eve, either 1962 or '63, not sure which..This picture was shot at my sister Mary Ellen and Danny's place...Montebello, Ca.

[Randyman]

El Boxeo . . .

I received a 12 minute promo for film maker Alan Swyer's documentary on Latino boxers.
I'm authorized to preview the promo, but not on-line in this forum.
If any of you would like to see the promo, I will forward the link, with instructions how to access it.
Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, Bob Arum and a lot of boxing personalities including Frank Baltazar and I are featured in the full length feature.
Send me your e-mail address via PM and I'll get it to you.

-Rick

I had a lot of trouble getting this video up and running but I finally figured out what the problem was (for me). I use Google Chrome as my browser and for some reason it wouldn't allow me to run the video. On a hunch I used Internet Explorer and it came up with no problem. Thanks for the link Rick. Great video, I can't wait to see the whole thing. Keep us informed. I would like to read your review on the film and post it on my site (if possible). Thanks!