Could Sky Take Over Uk Boxing mini UFC style?

[SAPFO]

Could Sky do something UFC style with British boxing? Like a proper Saturday Fight Night where each promoter can offer Sky a competitive fight for the show. At least 60/40. I am sure between all the promoters we can get competitive cards weekly making the sport stronger.

My UFC example was based on UFC = Sky on a smaller scale. With the individual promoters being compared to the likes of Strikeforece etc...like feeder promotions. The promoters still get their cut, it is just Sky demand competitive mixed promoter shows for their viewers.

[keithmoonhangover]

Could Sky do something UFC style with British boxing? Like a proper Saturday Fight Night where each promoter can offer Sky a competitive fight for the show. At least 60/40. I am sure between all the promoters we can get competitive cards weekly making the sport stronger.

My UFC example was based on UFC = Sky on a smaller scale. With the individual promoters being compared to the likes of Strikeforece etc...like feeder promotions. The promoters still get their cut, it is just Sky demand competitive mixed promoter shows for their viewers.

Anything that gets rid of the terrible matches we have to put up with at the moment get's my vote.

If I was in charge of Sky's Boxing, I just wouldn't accept poor matches.

[SAPFO]

Then we will just have to put up with each promoter hogging 1 night and filling it with crap rather than Sky selecting the best matched fights from the promoters 'bidding' process.


Is there an alternative?

[TheCobra]

Think they're starting already , i know someone close to Adam Smith at sky who told me if Jamie Mcdonnel wants to box on sky he will have to box Stuey Hall next or he wont be on . FTM want to do it and will prob get an early september sky date for it , Dennis Hobson's been backed in to a corner because everyone knows Stuey Hall wants the fight , so expect to hear Hobson come out and say they always wanted it aswell , so in a way sky have made the fight happen.

I'd much rather watch Stuey Hall vs McDonnell, than watch McDonnell against some no-name who we've never heard of in a european title defence. It's about more than the belts and the fighters/promoters need to remember that.

[SAPFO]

Exciting matches WILL create more interest. The papers will talk about it, people will talk about it, MORE people will watch. My Mrs is a casual fan, but she wanders off during the usual 80/20 matches. When there is a tear up happening she is glued to the TV.

[Adamj1987]

we need better matches made and other tv bradcasters will get involved again

[Glyn Leach]

In answer to the question, I'd say Sky lack the imagination, the cultural X Factor that has made the UFC a TV phenomenon. The chance is there for Sky but I don't think they know it, much less know how to take it. 'Doing what we do' would not be enough, they'd have to think way outside their box, which they don't seem particularly good at. Sky Sports as a whole is very conservative in nature. They do a good job overall, but they lack the flair to ever do a brilliant job IMO.

Wider scale, re the UFC, I'm wondering if their branching out to absorb the WEC and annex Strikeforce, plus their decision to make all PPV main events five-round fights, which until now has been for title bouts only, might be something that eventually bites them in the arse. Not a great comparison except in TV terms, but it brings to mind how the WWF went from being a TV powerhouse to the WWE of today, which is far less popular. That came about not long after the WWF absorbed TNT and ECW.

What happens, it seems, is that when an organisation takes more and more fighters on board, it requires more and more titles and big matches to satisfy them, which in the end results in the titles meaning very little and the public losing interest. Then you will get the inevitable split, with disgruntled major names going off to form the backbone of another promotion (in the WWE's case, TNA), which will name its own world champions etc and come to rival the WWE, which will encourage further splits and more promotions.

Remind you of any other sport?

[keithmoonhangover]

I think what makes UFC so marketable, is that people are happy to watch a name, like Randy Couture, no matter how late in his career he is.

As boxing fans we tend to want boxers to retire as soon as the slide begins. 12 rounds of hard punishment is a lot harder than 5 unaswered punches on the deck or tapping out to a submission.

[Glyn Leach]

I think what makes UFC so marketable, is that people are happy to watch a name, like Randy Couture, no matter how late in his career he is.

As boxing fans we tend to want boxers to retire as soon as the slide begins. 12 rounds of hard punishment is a lot harder than 5 unaswered punches on the deck or tapping out to a submission.

It's one of the things Moony, for sure. But what happens when the UFC no longer wants those fighters, they're being pushed out by an influx of fighters from rival promotions that have been absorbed, yet the old names still want a career? Pretty much like TNA in wrestling, they band together and do their own thing, creating another popular promotion.

Ironic that absorbing rival promotions created rival promotions in wrestling, I'm just wondering if the same thing will happen with the UFC.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Could Sky do something UFC style with British boxing? Like a proper Saturday Fight Night where each promoter can offer Sky a competitive fight for the show. At least 60/40. I am sure between all the promoters we can get competitive cards weekly making the sport stronger.

My UFC example was based on UFC = Sky on a smaller scale. With the individual promoters being compared to the likes of Strikeforece etc...like feeder promotions. The promoters still get their cut, it is just Sky demand competitive mixed promoter shows for their viewers.

No they couldn't. Simple as. Promoters would never agree to Sky taking over.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think what makes UFC so marketable, is that people are happy to watch a name, like Randy Couture, no matter how late in his career he is.

As boxing fans we tend to want boxers to retire as soon as the slide begins. 12 rounds of hard punishment is a lot harder than 5 unaswered punches on the deck or tapping out to a submission.

The smaller gloves in UFC mean that the fighters are much less likely to get punchy, if they get ground and pounded, their faces open up quickly, and the fight is stopped.

Couture may be old, but he's hardly disgraced himself, the last time I saw him get battered was by Lesnar, and Lesnar outweighed him by about 30 lbs and was a lot younger.

[keithmoonhangover]

I think what makes UFC so marketable, is that people are happy to watch a name, like Randy Couture, no matter how late in his career he is.

As boxing fans we tend to want boxers to retire as soon as the slide begins. 12 rounds of hard punishment is a lot harder than 5 unaswered punches on the deck or tapping out to a submission.

It's one of the things Moony, for sure. But what happens when the UFC no longer wants those fighters, they're being pushed out by an influx of fighters from rival promotions that have been absorbed, yet the old names still want a career? Pretty much like TNA in wrestling, they band together and do their own thing, creating another popular promotion.

Ironic that absorbing rival promotions created rival promotions in wrestling, I'm just wondering if the same thing will happen with the UFC.

I think one of the biggest things UFC has going for it is the brand. My middle son says UFC when he is watching any MMA and I think a lot of casual fans could be similar. There has never been a boxing promotion who's brand has been anywhere near that. Although I do think Prizefighter has been marketed VERY well.

[Glyn Leach]

Randy got battered by Machida more recently than that James, announced another retirement.

And that's what I've been talking about I suppose Moony, the weakening of a strong brand — ironically, through moves designed to make it stronger! Perhaps there can be such thing as too much success, but once that ball gets rolling it's very hard to stop it. And no one stays at the top forever.

[hurlock]

glynn didnt realise you was a big wwf fan :!: i thought the wwe was a big thing with the rock etc & stone cold.

sky are broadcaster's & i suppose all the big ideas & money saving rubbish would limit back handers for those in the driving seat.

wasnt lou dibella head of sports at hbo prior to becoming a promoter?

[Poncey]

Glyn, have to take you up on a few points mate. The WWE purchase of WCW and ECW, which was probably the biggest thing to happen in the "sport" since Vince McMahon Snr swallowed up the regional promotions in the late 70s and early 80s, was purely down to a few individuals that refused to put over their rival stars. Namely HHH and co. Had Vince not given him the booking rights, and left it to Heyman and Bischoff, they would've had a huge rivalry to sell PPV and ratings for years. Made WCW and ECW the outsiders (like a cool NWO) and made more stars for the future.

UFC has stolen their demographic of 18-35 years olds, but the purchase of WEC and Strikforce has created a monopoly (which the FTC has been investigating for a few weeks now) which has strengthened the brand, not devalued it. I can go into specifics, but I don't wanna bore you. Suffice to say they now only have 1 bantamweight, 3 featherweights, 1 lightweight, 1 welterweight, 1 middleweight and 1 heavyweight outside of the best 15 in each division in the world. They just had the 7th largest attendance at a combat sports event in history in Canada and the PPV buy rates increase year on year.

I agree that Sky don't have the ability to mirror this and control UK boxing. They simply aren't "down with the kids" (seriously, when was the last time they did something innovative?!). But if they could, we'd have a wonderful, wonderful product. There were waaay too many Promoters in the UK (at best we should have two).

[Glyn Leach]

Hurlock, somehow grew to love WWF back in the day, all started when I did some research for it prior to Tyson's appearance in Wrestlemania, which I attended. Was the funniest thing on TV for a few years IMO, until the writers defected to the WCW, where they weren't anything like as funny. Lost interest then.

Poncey mate, you're explaining background, which I know in both instances, when the end result is what I'm referring to — the baby not the labour pains, not what could have happened but what happened. My point is that while creating a monopoly, for whatever reason, seems like a great idea at the time it can actually result in a weakened product down the line, as with the WWE when it became the only game in town. There is such a thing as being too big, too successful. Like the Roman Empire, there comes a point where such success becomes impossible to sustain and the only way is down.

I'm very aware of how strong UFC is at the moment, just as the WWF was strong back in the day. But IMO each having a strong product is/was in a large part down to simplicity — the audience knowing the performers over a period of time etc. When new performers and shows are absorbed, which is an inevitable result of expansion, it becomes more complicated and people really don't take to that very well. For instance, the WWE changing nights, adding shows, on paper it shouldn't have been a bad thing but in reality the organisation's popularity dipped in tandem with those things and has never recovered.

That's my fear — and I use that word because I like UFC — for the new, expanded MMA monopoly. There's all the new divisions, new fighters to accommodate, plus the five-round for any main event thing ... all adds up to a more complicated product and change, which people generally don't like and usually react against. There's no disputing that the UFC's MMA monopoly appears powerful as hell right now, what I'm saying is that in years to come it could become a negative rather than the positive most people view it as today. I'm looking ahead, not talking about yesterday or today. I might well be wrong, but I'd back my hunch on this one.

[subsy]

Glyn

Whilst I appreciate what you're saying, I'm not sure comparisons to WWF/WWE are valid.
One is a legitimate sport, the other is entertainment.
Fighters have very different motivations. You won't get ex / retired UFC fighters creating their own rival promotions, and if they did the fighters in it would still be aspiring to eventually make it to the UFC.

Dana, the Fertitas, Ratner, and Joe Silva are all very smart people, even if not always likeable.
They of course are doing the right thing to grow the UFC, but their approach has always been to do that by growing the sport.
Their success has been the biggest contributing factor to the success of other rival promotions, to the success of most fight apparel companies, etc.

I'd bet that most MMA fans start off watching the sport for stand up wars, slugfests, brutal knockouts - they see a couple of clips, and want to see more. Over time they of course latch on to name fighters who are popular. But they're also learning about other fighters, up and comers, at the same time as they are becoming more immersed in the sport - they start appreciating the various facets of MMA, identifying different tactics, learning about submission, throws, various standup techniques etc.
I think that casual fans get converted far more than in boxing, and I don't worry like you that when a couple of big names get old

Bottom line is that (of course with exceptions) the UFC (as other promotions) create exciting fights, and whilst big names get people hyped before a fight, most fans, casual or otherwise would rather see exciting fights with unknowns than boring fights with marquee names. You're not gonna see exoduses of fans from the UFC who stop following the UFC to exclusively watch fights in other promotions. Its just not gonna happen.
The UFC will continue to grow, organically as well as through acquisitions. The market is barely even tapped yet, let alone saturated. When it does get more toward that time, it will be in part because the UFC has helped grow the sport of MMA. Other promotions will still exist, because the UFC won't have the physical capacity and capability to host events for every MMS fighter in the workd, and some of these other promotions will also be successful, and fans will enjoy being able to watch exciting, high quality fights on a number of different promotions. Just like today, only more.

[Glyn Leach]

Can't argue with the difference between UFC and pro wrestling Subsy, obviously they're completely different. But I do believe that company for company, by which I mean the business end, they are not dissimilar in that both, in their different eras, managed to capture the target audience that has always eluded boxing — and I should point out that I'm not doing a 'boxing vs UFC' thing here, as I'm sure you appreciate. It's not about that at all.

Again, though, you talk in terms of the present. Of course, all mixed martial artists want to get into the UFC today, but as I'm trying to explain I'm looking down the line, maybe five years time or something similar. Again, using the WWF/E and the Roman Empire as reference points for too much success turning round and biting you in the arse, the problem comes when a monopolistic enterprise takes on so many more mouths that it can't possibly hope to feed them all — in sporting/sports entertainment terms, too many performers for the available TV dates, titles, paydays etc. Those who don't feel they are getting a fair slice of the pie, or even those who just want more, always 'revolt', and quite naturally so. Their lives depend on it. And there will be people, in this case TV companies etc, willing to satisfy the unhappy performers. It's inevitable.

Please understand, I am not in any way suggesting that the UFC is now in decline. That would be ridiculous given the record crowd it drew in Quebec. What I am saying is that I think the seeds of a decline are there now, for the first time I can see where the cracks might appear in the UFC and why. By absorbing rival promotions, as the WWF/E did, it will in years to come create a rival promotion. And I'm not talking about veteran stars literally, but known ones, fighters with public recognition value (although TNA's roster has both, obviously). I don't mean the likes of Randy, Hendo and spacehopper head Ortiz, these will be fighters we might not even have heard of today (you know how quick Jon Jones's rise to the top has been). And I'm not saying that the rival promotion will wipe the UFC off the face of the earth, TNA hasn't done that to the WWE. But it will make a sizeable impact (excuse the pun) and create an audience that prefers its product to the UFC's, to a level that WEC and Strikeforce never did, although obviously those now-absorbed promotions had their own fans, smaller in number as the case may be.

In a nutshell, the point I've been trying to put across is that monopoly, complete control, is the peak of a promotion's power and from there the only way is down. It's a careful what you wish for thing. Give it five to 10 years, because I've never said this is going to happen overnight, and then we'll see if I'm right or wrong in my reading of the situation.

[Poncey]

I respect your point Glyn but the McMahons were rich from Wrestling but the Fertitas and The Shiek that own Zuffa are rich outside of their product.

So can always buy a rival (the rumours of them buying Bellator merely to get a TV deal with Viacom won't go away at the moment). Plus they improve their product year on year almost.

Something that Wrestling never really did.

There's no reason to say MMA won't die out in 5 years, but there's no reason I won't get to have sex with Denise Richards in 5 years either. I hope I'm right more than you.

But I guess we've strayed off the point of boxing here.

I pray someone does stick their neck out and buy up most UK boxers contracts.

[Glyn Leach]

I respect your point Glyn but the McMahons were rich from Wrestling but the Fertitas and The Shiek that own Zuffa are rich outside of their product.

So can always buy a rival (the rumours of them buying Bellator merely to get a TV deal with Viacom won't go away at the moment). Plus they improve their product year on year almost.

Something that Wrestling never really did.

There's no reason to say MMA won't die out in 5 years, but there's no reason I won't get to have sex with Denise Richards in 5 years either. I hope I'm right more than you.

But I guess we've strayed off the point of boxing here.

I pray someone does stick their neck out and buy up most UK boxers contracts.

Good point on the finances Poncey — who knows, in 10 years time the sheikh might own the whole shebang, anything could happen — including a double date, you and Denise plus me and Uma Thurman!

[Poncey]

Foursome Basil, foursome!

[SAPFO]

I read a while ago that Dana was looking to be putting 50 odd shows a year on, hence the need for more talent. Now, I immediately think of over exposure, but then will the majority of these be free shows to hook in a wider audience similar to the WWF/E did/do? With the title fights being the massive unmissable international PPV events?

Dana had a hard-on for the UK at one point and was dieing to make a UK UFC champ so he could stuff us with PPV. He now has a boner for Canada due to GPS Mania !!!


On topic:

Sign with Sky Boxing and get your face on TV!! I am sure all the best boxers would be punching each other for the chance. The promoters could then do the 'prmoting' job and supply this talent. Still take their fee's, just let Sky Boxing matchmake.

[Bricks]

In answer to the question, I'd say Sky lack the imagination, the cultural X Factor that has made the UFC a TV phenomenon. The chance is there for Sky but I don't think they know it, much less know how to take it. 'Doing what we do' would not be enough, they'd have to think way outside their box, which they don't seem particularly good at. Sky Sports as a whole is very conservative in nature. They do a good job overall, but they lack the flair to ever do a brilliant job IMO.

Wider scale, re the UFC, I'm wondering if their branching out to absorb the WEC and annex Strikeforce, plus their decision to make all PPV main events five-round fights, which until now has been for title bouts only, might be something that eventually bites them in the arse. Not a great comparison except in TV terms, but it brings to mind how the WWF went from being a TV powerhouse to the WWE of today, which is far less popular. That came about not long after the WWF absorbed TNT and ECW.

What happens, it seems, is that when an organisation takes more and more fighters on board, it requires more and more titles and big matches to satisfy them, which in the end results in the titles meaning very little and the public losing interest. Then you will get the inevitable split, with disgruntled major names going off to form the backbone of another promotion (in the WWE's case, TNA), which will name its own world champions etc and come to rival the WWE, which will encourage further splits and more promotions.

Remind you of any other sport?

great analogy. Since the UFC swallowed up PRIDE FC there just isnt that rival to the UFC in the Far East. The FAr East has huge huge untapped potential in countries like china and Thailand, and Japan is the place to market that best. Its a terrible shame the Yakuza scandals have destroyed japanese MMA to the extent where they just dont seem to have the stars coming through anymore

[Glyn Leach]

I read a while ago that Dana was looking to be putting 50 odd shows a year on, hence the need for more talent. Now, I immediately think of over exposure, but then will the majority of these be free shows to hook in a wider audience similar to the WWF/E did/do? With the title fights being the massive unmissable international PPV events?

Dana had a hard-on for the UK at one point and was dieing to make a UK UFC champ so he could stuff us with PPV. He now has a boner for Canada due to GPS Mania !!!


On topic:

Sign with Sky Boxing and get your face on TV!! I am sure all the best boxers would be punching each other for the chance. The promoters could then do the 'prmoting' job and supply this talent. Still take their fee's, just let Sky Boxing matchmake.

Off topic, that does sound like over exposure, doesn't it. And there's something not quite right about all four proposed UK shows in 2011 being scrapped due to lack of available venues. All four?
On topic, I'm all for a meritocracy, the best and most popular fighters earning TV time rather than the current system where a promoter with a deal just sticks his stable on against any old bods. I'm sure the new Sky deals won't allow that. Kathy Duva made a good point in last month's BM: If a fighter isn't attractive at the box office, why expect them to be attractive on TV? It should be an honour, not a right IMO.

[hurlock]

In answer to the question, I'd say Sky lack the imagination, the cultural X Factor that has made the UFC a TV phenomenon. The chance is there for Sky but I don't think they know it, much less know how to take it. 'Doing what we do' would not be enough, they'd have to think way outside their box, which they don't seem particularly good at. Sky Sports as a whole is very conservative in nature. They do a good job overall, but they lack the flair to ever do a brilliant job IMO.

Wider scale, re the UFC, I'm wondering if their branching out to absorb the WEC and annex Strikeforce, plus their decision to make all PPV main events five-round fights, which until now has been for title bouts only, might be something that eventually bites them in the arse. Not a great comparison except in TV terms, but it brings to mind how the WWF went from being a TV powerhouse to the WWE of today, which is far less popular. That came about not long after the WWF absorbed TNT and ECW.

What happens, it seems, is that when an organisation takes more and more fighters on board, it requires more and more titles and big matches to satisfy them, which in the end results in the titles meaning very little and the public losing interest. Then you will get the inevitable split, with disgruntled major names going off to form the backbone of another promotion (in the WWE's case, TNA), which will name its own world champions etc and come to rival the WWE, which will encourage further splits and more promotions.

Remind you of any other sport?

great analogy. Since the UFC swallowed up PRIDE FC there just isnt that rival to the UFC in the Far East. The FAr East has huge huge untapped potential in countries like china and Thailand, and Japan is the place to market that best. Its a terrible shame the Yakuza scandals have destroyed japanese MMA to the extent where they just dont seem to have the stars coming through anymore

be nice to see you go china & try your hand DD