More than one division

[Ezzard]

Which boxers have a valid claim to being in the all-time top 10 in more than one weight class (original 8)?

Armstrong
Robinson
Greb
Tunney
Duran
Jofre
Langford
Burley

[King Carlos]

Not too sure about Jofre. I'd say his nemesis Harada has a much better claim for that, actually. Hell, a guy like Luis Rodriguez wouldn't make the cut for me at Middleweight, but he's no worse a choice than someone like Tunney at Heavyweight, in my opinion.

I suppose you could argue the likes of George Dixon and Terry McGovern at Bantam and Feather respectively, despite the differences in the way the weights were regulated in those days.

Barney Ross at Light and Welter, perhaps.

[keithmoonhangover]

Which boxers have a valid claim to being in the all-time top 10 in more than one weight class (original 8)?

Armstrong
Robinson
Greb
Tunney
Duran
Jofre
Langford
Burley

Which two divisions would you class Duran as an all-time top ten in Ezz?

[Idisagree]

Which boxers have a valid claim to being in the all-time top 10 in more than one weight class (original 8)?

Armstrong
Robinson
Greb
Tunney
Duran
Jofre
Langford
Burley

Which two divisions would you class Duran as an all-time top ten in Ezz?

Lightweight and welter I assume. Duran has a legit claim at being a top 10 welter. Lets not forget he has a win over Sugar Ray Leonard at that weight and Leonard is a legit top 5 in that division.

[keithmoonhangover]

Which boxers have a valid claim to being in the all-time top 10 in more than one weight class (original 8)?

Armstrong
Robinson
Greb
Tunney
Duran
Jofre
Langford
Burley

Which two divisions would you class Duran as an all-time top ten in Ezz?

Lightweight and welter I assume. Duran has a legit claim at being a top 10 welter. Lets not forget he has a win over Sugar Ray Leonard at that weight and Leonard is a legit top 5 in that division.

By that rationale, does Sugar Ray Leonard not qualify at middleweight because of his win over Marvin Hagler?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Duran also had a dominant win over palomino. And lets not pretend hagler was in his prime like leonard was against Duran. That being said, Welter is too deep for me to find a place in the top 10 for Duran.

[keithmoonhangover]

Duran also had a dominant win over palomino. And lets not pretend hagler was in his prime like leonard was against Duran. That being said, Welter is too deep for me to find a place in the top 10 for Duran.

Duran also lost to Leonard in the rematch, surely that must knock his rating at Welter, wether you consider the manner of the defeat or not.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Duran also had a dominant win over palomino. And lets not pretend hagler was in his prime like leonard was against Duran. That being said, Welter is too deep for me to find a place in the top 10 for Duran.

Duran also lost to Leonard in the rematch, surely that must knock his rating at Welter, wether you consider the manner of the defeat or not.

He would still rate higher than leonard does at Middleweight. By a substantial margin.

[keithmoonhangover]

Duran also had a dominant win over palomino. And lets not pretend hagler was in his prime like leonard was against Duran. That being said, Welter is too deep for me to find a place in the top 10 for Duran.

Duran also lost to Leonard in the rematch, surely that must knock his rating at Welter, wether you consider the manner of the defeat or not.

He would still rate higher than leonard does at Middleweight. By a substantial margin.

So beating Leonard in one fight and quitting in the second after barely landing a punch makes him some kind of superstar at Welter?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Duran also lost to Leonard in the rematch, surely that must knock his rating at Welter, wether you consider the manner of the defeat or not.

He would still rate higher than leonard does at Middleweight. By a substantial margin.

So beating Leonard in one fight and quitting in the second after barely landing a punch makes him some kind of superstar at Welter?

I never said that, I just think your analogy was laughable.

He drubbed carlos palomino and had several decent wins in the weight class. Not a one hit wonder against a faded champion like leonard was at Middle.

[keithmoonhangover]

He would still rate higher than leonard does at Middleweight. By a substantial margin.

So beating Leonard in one fight and quitting in the second after barely landing a punch makes him some kind of superstar at Welter?

I never said that, I just think your analogy was laughable.

He drubbed carlos palomino and had several decent wins in the weight class. Not a one hit wonder against a faded champion like leonard was at Middle.

Your a bit biased there mate. Leonard was long past his prime, ring rusty and eye damaged. Faded Hagler or no. It was one of the biggest achievements in Boxing history.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

So beating Leonard in one fight and quitting in the second after barely landing a punch makes him some kind of superstar at Welter?

I never said that, I just think your analogy was laughable.

He drubbed carlos palomino and had several decent wins in the weight class. Not a one hit wonder against a faded champion like leonard was at Middle.

Your a bit biased there mate. Leonard was long past his prime, ring rusty and eye damaged. Faded Hagler or no. It was one of the biggest achievements in Boxing history.

You're rifling words into my mouth faster than I can refute them. It was a tremendous achievement and you could never find me saying otherwise. That doesn't mean Leonard rates as a Middleweight off of one fight. Well, that and a tough decision over marcos geraldo when he was younger.

I'm always going to be partial to two guys in their primes with a definitive victor. So i'd rate Duran's win over Leonard's. But he did more than that anyway.

So to recap, again, I don't think Duran rates in the top 10 at Welter, Leonard beating Hagler was a tremendous achievement and your analogy was weak.

[keithmoonhangover]

I never said that, I just think your analogy was laughable.

He drubbed carlos palomino and had several decent wins in the weight class. Not a one hit wonder against a faded champion like leonard was at Middle.

Your a bit biased there mate. Leonard was long past his prime, ring rusty and eye damaged. Faded Hagler or no. It was one of the biggest achievements in Boxing history.

You're rifling words into my mouth faster than I can refute them. It was a tremendous achievement and you could never find me saying otherwise. That doesn't mean Leonard rates as a Middleweight off of one fight. Well, that and a tough decision over marcos geraldo when he was younger.

I'm always going to be partial to two guys in their primes with a definitive victor. So i'd rate Duran's win over Leonard's. But he did more than that anyway.

So to recap, again, I don't think Duran rates in the top 10 at Welter, Leonard beating Hagler was a tremendous achievement and your analogy was weak.

How much do you think the quitting hurt his rating at Welter?

[Idisagree]

Lightweight and welter I assume. Duran has a legit claim at being a top 10 welter. Lets not forget he has a win over Sugar Ray Leonard at that weight and Leonard is a legit top 5 in that division.

By that rationale, does Sugar Ray Leonard not qualify at middleweight because of his win over Marvin Hagler?

There is a big difference between Leonard beating Hagler and Duran beating Leonard.

1. Hagler drop the ball and I fault more Hagler for losing a close fight. I credit Leonard with the achievement but the fact is that fight could have gone either way.

2. Duran vs Leonard was a competitive fight but not close in my view. I had Duran winning a clear decision with no controversies.

3. Like Saad already mention Duran had also a dominant win against Palomino.

[keithmoonhangover]

Lightweight and welter I assume. Duran has a legit claim at being a top 10 welter. Lets not forget he has a win over Sugar Ray Leonard at that weight and Leonard is a legit top 5 in that division.

By that rationale, does Sugar Ray Leonard not qualify at middleweight because of his win over Marvin Hagler?

There is a big difference between Leonard beating Hagler and Duran beating Leonard.

1. Hagler drop the ball and I fault more Hagler for losing a close fight. I credit Leonard with the achievement but the fact is that fight could have gone either way.

2. Duran vs Leonard was a competitive fight but not close in my view. I had Duran winning a clear decision with no controversies.

3. Like Saad already mention Duran had also a dominant win against Palomino.

4. Duran quit after barely landing a punch in the rematch.

You say that Hagler dropped the ball against Leonard. In the first Duran fight, did Leonard not drop the ball by fighting Duran's fight?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You obviously haven't seen the rematch in a long time if you don't think he landed a punch. That was a pretty even fight.

Leonard had no choice but to fight Duran's fight. He nutted up and did it, but I LMAO whenever I read someone act like he could have done anything differently without getting run out of the ring.

To answer your question I don't think No mas hurts his standing anymore than losing the first fight hurts Leonard's.

[Ezzard]

Duran's win was over the man dubbed the best fighter of the 80s. Ray was in his prime, was badly hurt early and it was over 15 rounds. Take into consideration that I don't think I've witnessed a better performance in ther ring since. Duran is a top 10 candidate.

Leonard's win over Hagler was great, just not as good.

[keithmoonhangover]

Duran's win was over the man dubbed the best fighter of the 80s. Ray was in his prime, was badly hurt early and it was over 15 rounds. Take into consideration that I don't think I've witnessed a better performance in ther ring since. Duran is a top 10 candidate.

Leonard's win over Hagler was great, just not as good.

You know I respect your opinion Ezz, but Leonard had had 1 fight in five year, had never fought at middleweight, had retina damage and was fighting a dominant champion. There is no comparison, Leonard's was a much bigger achievement.

[Ezzard]

Duran's win was over the man dubbed the best fighter of the 80s. Ray was in his prime, was badly hurt early and it was over 15 rounds. Take into consideration that I don't think I've witnessed a better performance in ther ring since. Duran is a top 10 candidate.

Leonard's win over Hagler was great, just not as good.

You know I respect your opinion Ezz, but Leonard had had 1 fight in five year, had never fought at middleweight, had retina damage and was fighting a dominant champion. There is no comparison, Leonard's was a much bigger achievement.

But his performance wasn't as good. All the things you say are true and medals of honour for Leonard but once you start mentioning all those issues you draw the opposite argument...

"Hagler was so shot he couldn't even beat a one-eyed, pumped up welter who had just spent 5 years in a retirement home."

I accept Leonard's was a great achievement with all those factors to overcome. I also accept that Duran was often fat and unfocused in many fights. It's the flip side of the same coin.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Duran had a better fighter in front of him and he beat him more convincingly.

[keithmoonhangover]

Duran had a better fighter in front of him and he beat him more convincingly.

More convincingly - he won by 1 point on 2 cards and 2 points on the other, hardly convincing mate.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Duran had a better fighter in front of him and he beat him more convincingly.

More convincingly - he won by 1 point on 2 cards and 2 points on the other, hardly convincing mate.

My eyes often serve me better than the official cards. If that wasn't convincing, nothing is. He kicked Leonard's ass, severely. One of your judges had 10 even rounds.

I've never heard anyone question who won that night. The argument over Hagler/Leonard still rages on. Though I think the judges got it right.

[keithmoonhangover]

Duran had a better fighter in front of him and he beat him more convincingly.

More convincingly - he won by 1 point on 2 cards and 2 points on the other, hardly convincing mate.

My eyes often serve me better than the official cards. If that wasn't convincing, nothing is. He kicked Leonard's ass, severely. One of your judges had 10 even rounds.

They're not my judges mate.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

More convincingly - he won by 1 point on 2 cards and 2 points on the other, hardly convincing mate.

My eyes often serve me better than the official cards. If that wasn't convincing, nothing is. He kicked Leonard's ass, severely. One of your judges had 10 even rounds.

They're not my judges mate.

Why bring them up?

[keithmoonhangover]

My eyes often serve me better than the official cards. If that wasn't convincing, nothing is. He kicked Leonard's ass, severely. One of your judges had 10 even rounds.

They're not my judges mate.

Why bring them up?

Because I wanted to.

You're a Leonard hater mate and that's a fact.

I would say that Leonard fought the wrong fight against Duran, but that does not alter the fact that he was beat fair and square.

Leonard was 5 1/2 years past his prime against Hagler and Hagler was still good enough to beat Hearns and Mugabi. If you factor in all the handicaps Leonard had that made him a betting underdog, then his a achievement was huge.