Hearns - Duran (1980 at Welterweight)

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The Hearns that decapitated Duran in 1984 was in his complete prime. He was at his perfect weight class. Put Leonard with Hearns in that same night he stopped Duran and Leonard would have get crushed. Just like Duran

Hearns at ww and under was frail. He had a hell of a punch, boxing skills and was fast. But he was not a good inside fighter. Could not hold on when in trouble back in the ww days and did not had the stamina necessary to fight 15 rounds hard. That is why he lost to Leonard at ww. Leonard had more gas at the end. Plus, Hearns did not had the chin. His chin failed him in the 2 biggest fights of his career.

That is why I say these fighters would have beaten Hearns at ww and by KO:
Emile Griffith
Sugar Ray Robinson
Kid Gavilan
Carmen Basilio
Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Leonard beats him every time at ww. But at 154, Hearns beats him there. He was much better and stronger in that class.

[Goodnight, Irene]

This thread makes my personal top-100 all-time Pound-per-Pound topics. How about you, Saad? You ready to call this one greatness?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

This thread makes my personal top-100 all-time Pound-per-Pound topics. How about you, Saad? You ready to call this one greatness?

Buzz & Elmer are providing Hall Of Fame comedy with the exception of Buzz's forced attempts at humor. He just needs to let his opinions bring the laughter on their own.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yes

[Ezzard]

Surely the 10 times out of 10 thinking would have also have stood up for Carter-Griffith?

Anyone think of any other examples? Maybe there's a thread in it...

[Idisagree]

Duran would have KO a bull, a horse, and Abdullah the Buthcher all in one night 10 times out 10

[Jaywheel]

We know, you said it on page 1

[Giancarlo]

Surely the 10 times out of 10 thinking would have also have stood up for Carter-Griffith?

Anyone think of any other examples? Maybe there's a thread in it...

Foreman vs Frazier

[keithmoonhangover]

Surely the 10 times out of 10 thinking would have also have stood up for Carter-Griffith?

Anyone think of any other examples? Maybe there's a thread in it...

Foreman vs Frazier

Good one mate.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Pac/MAB is another one with two great fighters.

[Idisagree]

We know, you said it on page 1

No I didn't. This is what I said on page 1 "Of course, we are talking about the Duran that was able to KO a horse, a bull, and Abdullah the Butcher with one punch." That is not the same as "Duran would have KO a bull, a horse, and Abdullah the Buthcher all in one night 10 times out 10"

[Ezzard]

Surely the 10 times out of 10 thinking would have also have stood up for Carter-Griffith?

Anyone think of any other examples? Maybe there's a thread in it...

Foreman vs Frazier

But Frazier lost the rematch too...

Ther loser has to turn it around from an earley KO. I think in the UK Pat Cowdell beat Najib daho in a rematch after losing the first fight KO1.

[elmersalsa]

The Hearns that decapitated Duran in 1984 was in his complete prime. He was at his perfect weight class. Put Leonard with Hearns in that same night he stopped Duran and Leonard would have get crushed. Just like Duran

Hearns at ww and under was frail. He had a hell of a punch, boxing skills and was fast. But he was not a good inside fighter. Could not hold on when in trouble back in the ww days and did not had the stamina necessary to fight 15 rounds hard. That is why he lost to Leonard at ww. Leonard had more gas at the end. Plus, Hearns did not had the chin. His chin failed him in the 2 biggest fights of his career.

That is why I say these fighters would have beaten Hearns at ww and by KO:
Emile Griffith
Sugar Ray Robinson
Kid Gavilan
Carmen Basilio
Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Leonard beats him every time at ww. But at 154, Hearns beats him there. He was much better and stronger in that class.

Wow....Hearns was so fragile he almost beat one of the greatest Welterweights of all time in an epic fight. And if memory serves me correct it took a hell of alot of Leonard's punches to do him in. Hardly the stuff of the weak chinned. Even Hagler although the job was done in 3 rounds, had to lay ALOT of leather on Hearn's supposed glass jaw to stop him. After that fight however, Hearn's did start showing signs of a not so sturdy beard.

Gavilan, Basilio, and Griffith didnt have the power of Leonard and probably would have all been outbox by the taller faster rangier Hearns. Robinson I give you. We already know what happened with Duran.

Griffith would have stopped Hearns. Also Gavilan and Basilio. They had the chin and the durability. Hearns could outbox you, but not for so long because he ALWAYS RAN OUT OF GAS. That weight class, the welterweight division, was not a good division for him. His best division was at 154lbs. There, Hearns was a monster. It was a weight class PERFECT for the Hitman. AT 154LBS, Hearns was much stronger. I cannot see neither Leonard nor Duran beating him in that class. That weight class WERE TOO BIG FOR Leonard and Duran. Especially for Duran. But from 147 on down? I cannot see Hearns beating Duran.

You are saying that Leonard had to throw a lot of punches. Yes Leonard threw a lot...Leonard put Hearns in trouble in the 6th and 7th rounds. And the referee had to save Hearns from the onslaught in the 14th round. Do you remember that? Do you remember that Hearns RAN OUT GAS?

Leonard did not had Duran's punch. Leonard did not had Duran's chin. Are you saying that Leonard had better chin than Duran's?

Hearns was good. Once you pressure him, it was over for him.
Pryor did it.
Leonard did it.
Hagler did it.
And Barkley did it.

What more evidence you guys need? Now a guy like Duran that can pressure you, and probably was a better pressure fighter than those above will lose to Hearns at ww? in his prime?...I don't buy that folks.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The Hearns that decapitated Duran in 1984 was in his complete prime. He was at his perfect weight class. Put Leonard with Hearns in that same night he stopped Duran and Leonard would have get crushed. Just like Duran

Hearns at ww and under was frail. He had a hell of a punch, boxing skills and was fast. But he was not a good inside fighter. Could not hold on when in trouble back in the ww days and did not had the stamina necessary to fight 15 rounds hard. That is why he lost to Leonard at ww. Leonard had more gas at the end. Plus, Hearns did not had the chin. His chin failed him in the 2 biggest fights of his career.

That is why I say these fighters would have beaten Hearns at ww and by KO:
Emile Griffith
Sugar Ray Robinson
Kid Gavilan
Carmen Basilio
Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Leonard beats him every time at ww. But at 154, Hearns beats him there. He was much better and stronger in that class.

Wow....Hearns was so fragile he almost beat one of the greatest Welterweights of all time in an epic fight. And if memory serves me correct it took a hell of alot of Leonard's punches to do him in. Hardly the stuff of the weak chinned. Even Hagler although the job was done in 3 rounds, had to lay ALOT of leather on Hearn's supposed glass jaw to stop him. After that fight however, Hearn's did start showing signs of a not so sturdy beard.

Gavilan, Basilio, and Griffith didnt have the power of Leonard and probably would have all been outbox by the taller faster rangier Hearns. Robinson I give you. We already know what happened with Duran.

Griffith would have stopped Hearns. Also Gavilan and Basilio. They had the chin and the durability. Hearns could outbox you, but not for so long because he ALWAYS RAN OUT OF GAS. That weight class, the welterweight division, was not a good division for him. His best division was at 154lbs. There, Hearns was a monster. It was a weight class PERFECT for the Hitman. AT 154LBS, Hearns was much stronger. I cannot see neither Leonard nor Duran beating him in that class. That weight class WERE TOO BIG FOR Leonard and Duran. Especially for Duran. But from 147 on down? I cannot see Hearns beating Duran.

You are saying that Leonard had to throw a lot of punches. Yes Leonard threw a lot...Leonard put Hearns in trouble in the 6th and 7th rounds. And the referee had to save Hearns from the onslaught in the 14th round. Do you remember that? Do you remember that Hearns RAN OUT GAS?

Leonard did not had Duran's punch. Leonard did not had Duran's chin. Are you saying that Leonard had better chin than Duran's?

Hearns was good. Once you pressure him, it was over for him.
Pryor did it.
Leonard did it.
Hagler did it.
And Barkley did it.

What more evidence you guys need? Now a guy like Duran that can pressure you, and probably was a better pressure fighter than those above will lose to Hearns at ww? in his prime?...I don't buy that folks.

What is it with you regurgitating the same trashy posts every two weeks? Everyone knows your thoughts on the topic. Just let it freaking die.

[Jaywheel]

We know, you said it on page 1

No I didn't. This is what I said on page 1 "Of course, we are talking about the Duran that was able to KO a horse, a bull, and Abdullah the Butcher with one punch." That is not the same as "Duran would have KO a bull, a horse, and Abdullah the Buthcher all in one night 10 times out 10"

My bad. Feel free to also tell us that Duran KOing a bull, horse and ATB is in your top 100 p4p urban legends, or that a 100% straight Duran KOing a bull, horse and ATB is FACT.

[I Feel Fine]

I've seen many attempts over the years to explain away Hearns' win. I don't see it. I've never seen Duran so befuddled, by Leonard included, and no one ever came close to hurting him the way Hearns hurt him.

Jumping into Hearns' shots when you're smaller, shorter and slower just won't work. I love Duran, but barring one lucky shot he probably never beats Hearns. Be it at 147 or wherever.

[elmersalsa]

Duran wins this one by KO. Once Hearns get pressured, is over.

At 147, Duran by KO
At 154 and above, Hearns by KO

[LeedsLad]

I've seen many attempts over the years to explain away Hearns' win. I don't see it. I've never seen Duran so befuddled, by Leonard included, and no one ever came close to hurting him the way Hearns hurt him.

Jumping into Hearns' shots when you're smaller, shorter and slower just won't work. I love Duran, but barring one lucky shot he probably never beats Hearns. Be it at 147 or wherever.

Agreed.

7lbs would barely make a difference. It wasn't as if Hearns won on a split decision stealing the later rounds as Duran tired..... he smacked him around the ring for just over a round before putting him out of his misery.

The height and reach advantage coupled with Tommy's power and skill was just way too much for Duran to overcome.

It's time his fanboys gave up on this, they're in denial. It's not as if there's anything to be ashamed of by admitting your man loses to Hearns by KO. Even Floyd fans are starting to come around to the idea!!

[elmersalsa]

I've seen many attempts over the years to explain away Hearns' win. I don't see it. I've never seen Duran so befuddled, by Leonard included, and no one ever came close to hurting him the way Hearns hurt him.

Jumping into Hearns' shots when you're smaller, shorter and slower just won't work. I love Duran, but barring one lucky shot he probably never beats Hearns. Be it at 147 or wherever.

Agreed.

7lbs would barely make a difference. It wasn't as if Hearns won on a split decision stealing the later rounds as Duran tired..... he smacked him around the ring for just over a round before putting him out of his misery.

The height and reach advantage coupled with Tommy's power and skill was just way too much for Duran to overcome.

It's time his fanboys gave up on this, they're in denial. It's not as if there's anything to be ashamed of by admitting your man loses to Hearns by KO. Even Floyd fans are starting to come around to the idea!!

Bullshit!
Duran was 4 years out of his prime. Twenty pounds above his best weight class, which is lightweight. Did not had no movement at all in that fight. Duran is a fighter that fights with movement. He was slow in that fight, too. Duran's most underrated asset was his speed. Hearns was at his best weight class, in his prime and I don't think not even Sugar Ray Leonard would have beaten him in that class. He was a monster.

From 154lbs and up, Hearns wins
From 147lbs and down, Duran wins

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I've seen many attempts over the years to explain away Hearns' win. I don't see it. I've never seen Duran so befuddled, by Leonard included, and no one ever came close to hurting him the way Hearns hurt him.

Jumping into Hearns' shots when you're smaller, shorter and slower just won't work. I love Duran, but barring one lucky shot he probably never beats Hearns. Be it at 147 or wherever.

Agreed.

7lbs would barely make a difference. It wasn't as if Hearns won on a split decision stealing the later rounds as Duran tired..... he smacked him around the ring for just over a round before putting him out of his misery.

The height and reach advantage coupled with Tommy's power and skill was just way too much for Duran to overcome.

It's time his fanboys gave up on this, they're in denial. It's not as if there's anything to be ashamed of by admitting your man loses to Hearns by KO. Even Floyd fans are starting to come around to the idea!!

Bullshit!
Duran was 4 years out of his prime. Twenty pounds above his best weight class, which is lightweight. Did not had no movement at all in that fight. Duran is a fighter that fights with movement. He was slow in that fight, too. Duran's most underrated asset was his speed. Hearns was at his best weight class, in his prime and I don't think not even Sugar Ray Leonard would have beaten him in that class. He was a monster.

From 154lbs and up, Hearns wins
From 147lbs and down, Duran wins

GIFSoup

[LeedsLad]

I've seen many attempts over the years to explain away Hearns' win. I don't see it. I've never seen Duran so befuddled, by Leonard included, and no one ever came close to hurting him the way Hearns hurt him.

Jumping into Hearns' shots when you're smaller, shorter and slower just won't work. I love Duran, but barring one lucky shot he probably never beats Hearns. Be it at 147 or wherever.

Agreed.

7lbs would barely make a difference. It wasn't as if Hearns won on a split decision stealing the later rounds as Duran tired..... he smacked him around the ring for just over a round before putting him out of his misery.

The height and reach advantage coupled with Tommy's power and skill was just way too much for Duran to overcome.

It's time his fanboys gave up on this, they're in denial. It's not as if there's anything to be ashamed of by admitting your man loses to Hearns by KO. Even Floyd fans are starting to come around to the idea!!

Bullshit!
Duran was 4 years out of his prime. Twenty pounds above his best weight class, which is lightweight. Did not had no movement at all in that fight. Duran is a fighter that fights with movement. He was slow in that fight, too. Duran's most underrated asset was his speed. Hearns was at his best weight class, in his prime and I don't think not even Sugar Ray Leonard would have beaten him in that class. He was a monster.

From 154lbs and up, Hearns wins
From 147lbs and down, Duran wins

Lightweight was his best division granted, but even so I don't think the 7lbs from 147 to 154 would make much difference.

Of course, Duran would have better movement but would still be presented with the same set of problems. Albeit Hearns matured from 81 to 84, was better balanced etc - but still had enough about him to knock Duran out.

Put it this way, in a matchup between the two based on their Leonard I abilities, I'd back Hearns every time. Duran would make him miss more, but would still have to find a way to land enough good punches of his own. Which he probably wouldn't against a man with a fast, accurate jab and a laser guided right hand.

The chin issue is overrated. Stopped on his feet vs Leonard, blown away by Hagler and hit with a lucky punch against Barkley in a fight that he was winning easily.

[elmersalsa]

Agreed.

7lbs would barely make a difference. It wasn't as if Hearns won on a split decision stealing the later rounds as Duran tired..... he smacked him around the ring for just over a round before putting him out of his misery.

The height and reach advantage coupled with Tommy's power and skill was just way too much for Duran to overcome.

It's time his fanboys gave up on this, they're in denial. It's not as if there's anything to be ashamed of by admitting your man loses to Hearns by KO. Even Floyd fans are starting to come around to the idea!!

Bullshit!
Duran was 4 years out of his prime. Twenty pounds above his best weight class, which is lightweight. Did not had no movement at all in that fight. Duran is a fighter that fights with movement. He was slow in that fight, too. Duran's most underrated asset was his speed. Hearns was at his best weight class, in his prime and I don't think not even Sugar Ray Leonard would have beaten him in that class. He was a monster.

From 154lbs and up, Hearns wins
From 147lbs and down, Duran wins

Lightweight was his best division granted, but even so I don't think the 7lbs from 147 to 154 would make much difference.

Of course, Duran would have better movement but would still be presented with the same set of problems. Albeit Hearns matured from 81 to 84, was better balanced etc - but still had enough about him to knock Duran out.

Put it this way, in a matchup between the two based on their Leonard I abilities, I'd back Hearns every time. Duran would make him miss more, but would still have to find a way to land enough good punches of his own. Which he probably wouldn't against a man with a fast, accurate jab and a laser guided right hand.

The chin issue is overrated. Stopped on his feet vs Leonard, blown away by Hagler and hit with a lucky punch against Barkley in a fight that he was winning easily.

At his very best, Duran was one of the toughest men to get hit cleanly. Was better inside fighter, stronger in the exchanges and better chin. Once Duran pressures him, it is over for Hearns. It happened to him more time than not.
Leonard pressured him, Hearns wilted
Hagler pressured him, Hearns grasped for air.
Barkley pressured him, he put him out of the ring. Second fight, same pressure and it was a deserving win for Barkley
Pryor pressured him at the amateurs, at 132lbs, and he beat Hearns

Hearns height and reach would be a great problem for Duran. But once Duran gots him figured out and fights him inside with pressure, it's over for the Hitman from 147lbs on down

Seven pounds is a HUGE DIFFERENCE. Duran is only 5'7". A good height for welterweight on down. But from 154lbs on up, he looked slow, lethargic and no punch if he fights a guys that can move swiftly like Hearns. Duran is a fighter with movement. At 154lbs, HE DID NOT HAD THAT MOVEMENT.

I could not see Leonard, Duran nor Benitez beating Hearns at 154lbs...No way...The weight class WAS too big for them three, while Tommy at that weight looked FANTASTIC.

[LeedsLad]

Duran was indeed a very tough man, and uncommonly brave, which in part caused his downfall in this fight.

I just fail to see how a fighter like Duran can beat a man like Hearns. Taller, longer, a murderous puncher with supreme boxing skills too. Or rather, I certainly wouldn't put any money on that being the outcome.

It's alright saying that Tommy was vulnerable to pressure, but Leonard was one of the best welterweights of all time, and Hearns had already withstood one big onslaught in the middle rounds before dominating Leonard in the next few rounds.

Hagler was the best middleweight ever in the biggest fight of his life.

Barkley I'm not sure that pressure was the reason for his victory, he was being utterly demolished before hitting a homerun on Tommy's chin.

You persist with the 147lbs and down line - I suppose if Tommy chops his leg off he'd make 135

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Duran was indeed a very tough man, and uncommonly brave, which in part caused his downfall in this fight.

I just fail to see how a fighter like Duran can beat a man like Hearns. Taller, longer, a murderous puncher with supreme boxing skills too. Or rather, I certainly wouldn't put any money on that being the outcome.

It's alright saying that Tommy was vulnerable to pressure, but Leonard was one of the best welterweights of all time, and Hearns had already withstood one big onslaught in the middle rounds before dominating Leonard in the next few rounds.

Hagler was the best middleweight ever in the biggest fight of his life.

Barkley I'm not sure that pressure was the reason for his victory, he was being utterly demolished before hitting a homerun on Tommy's chin.

You persist with the 147lbs and down line - I suppose if Tommy chops his leg off he'd make 135

You're wasting your time. Elmer will just say the same thing 8,000 times or until you're both dead. We all know he is an idiot. I'd just let it go.

[ThatOne]

elmer has a soft spot for Duran and doesn't subject him to the same scrutiny he does other fighters.