Fights That Would Go The Same Way 10 out of 10 Times.

[keithmoonhangover]

There is plenty of evidence. If Ole Enery could almost knock him out and Doug Jones could outpoint him, an in shape, prime Liston could do either. Clay was afraid of him for a reason.

This isn't a time machine thread. It's Liston vs Ali as was in their two fights, not young Liston against young Clay.

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

This isn't a time machine thread. It's Liston vs Ali as was in their two fights, not young Liston against young Clay.

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

[keithmoonhangover]

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

I hear what your saying, but I'm not sure of Arguello could do anything different to make up the points and not get stopped.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

I hear what your saying, but I'm not sure of Arguello could do anything different to make up the points and not get stopped.[/quote]

He was ahead on one card. If that same fight happened ten times he could easily be ahead without changing a thing but the judges. I was a fan of both of them and was actually cheering for Pryor. But I can't think of many fights that I would disagree with more here. And i'd definitely like to see it without that black bottle.

[keithmoonhangover]

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

I hear what your saying, but I'm not sure of Arguello could do anything different to make up the points and not get stopped.[/quote]

He was ahead on one card. If that same fight happened ten times he could easily be ahead without changing a thing but the judges. I was a fan of both of them and was actually cheering for Pryor. But I can't think of many fights that I would disagree with more here. And i'd definitely like to see it without that black bottle.[/quote]

Judges Saad? I thought you trussted your own eyes.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

I hear what your saying, but I'm not sure of Arguello could do anything different to make up the points and not get stopped.[/quote]

He was ahead on one card. If that same fight happened ten times he could easily be ahead without changing a thing but the judges. I was a fan of both of them and was actually cheering for Pryor. But I can't think of many fights that I would disagree with more here. And i'd definitely like to see it without that black bottle.[/quote]

Judges Saad? I thought you trussted your own eyes. [/quote]

I do, but my eyes don't render official results. You mentioned the points so it was worth mentioning that it was close in that regard. Way too many variables for this fight to fit here. I'd give Alexis 3 or 4.

[keithmoonhangover]

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

I hear what your saying, but I'm not sure of Arguello could do anything different to make up the points and not get stopped.[/quote]

He was ahead on one card. If that same fight happened ten times he could easily be ahead without changing a thing but the judges. I was a fan of both of them and was actually cheering for Pryor. But I can't think of many fights that I would disagree with more here. And i'd definitely like to see it without that black bottle.[/quote]

Judges Saad? I thought you trussted your own eyes. [/quote]

I do, but my eyes don't render official results. You mentioned the points so it was worth mentioning that it was close in that regard. Way too many variables for this fight to fit here. I'd give Alexis 3 or 4.[/quote]

Come on Saad, it was funny you mentioning the judges. Giver me a smile.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

I hear what your saying, but I'm not sure of Arguello could do anything different to make up the points and not get stopped.[/quote]

He was ahead on one card. If that same fight happened ten times he could easily be ahead without changing a thing but the judges. I was a fan of both of them and was actually cheering for Pryor. But I can't think of many fights that I would disagree with more here. And i'd definitely like to see it without that black bottle.[/quote]

Judges Saad? I thought you trussted your own eyes. [/quote]

I do, but my eyes don't render official results. You mentioned the points so it was worth mentioning that it was close in that regard. Way too many variables for this fight to fit here. I'd give Alexis 3 or 4.[/quote]

Come on Saad, it was funny you mentioning the judges. Giver me a smile. [/quote]

I laughed, but you know it wasn't nearly in the same context.

[keithmoonhangover]

You should specify that when you make it. That makes for millions of answers.

Holmes/Ali
Tyson/Holmes
Holyfield/Foreman
Norris/Leonard
Camacho/Leonard
Joppy/Duran
Toney/Holyfield
Lebedev/Jones
Marciano/Louis

etc..........................

I know Saad, but I could use Holyfield from Sherman Williams against Tyson from Berbick.

It's your thread. I just assumed you meant with both guys at their best. I'm astounded that one of the two or three greatest wars I've ever seen is up for discussion.

Tyson would have a chance there.

I hear what your saying, but I'm not sure of Arguello could do anything different to make up the points and not get stopped.[/quote]

He was ahead on one card. If that same fight happened ten times he could easily be ahead without changing a thing but the judges. I was a fan of both of them and was actually cheering for Pryor. But I can't think of many fights that I would disagree with more here. And i'd definitely like to see it without that black bottle.[/quote]

Judges Saad? I thought you trussted your own eyes. [/quote]

I do, but my eyes don't render official results. You mentioned the points so it was worth mentioning that it was close in that regard. Way too many variables for this fight to fit here. I'd give Alexis 3 or 4.[/quote]

Come on Saad, it was funny you mentioning the judges. Giver me a smile. [/quote]

I laughed, but you know it wasn't nearly in the same context.[/quote]

I did but lets put it behind us.

I'll say JCC vs Camacho

[Idisagree]

Pryor/Arguello

BULLSHIT!

Why? He stopped him with the black/blue bottle and he stopped him without it. Arguello at that weight class was simply not as effective as a lightweight and below. I don't see how Arguello could turn this fight around. Perhaps if he uses the black/blue bottle himself he could win

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Pryor/Arguello

BULLSHIT!

Why? He stopped him with the black/blue bottle and he stopped him without it. Arguello at that weight class was simply not as effective as a lightweight and below. I don't see how Arguello could turn this fight around. Perhaps if he uses the black/blue bottle himself he could win

It was an epic war. Pryor wouldn't be in that condition ten times. It's a joke of an answer. So you would make Pryor what? A 100 to 1 favorite after watching that fight? 50 to 1? Bigger odds than Douglas against Tyson?

What's next? Leonard/Hearns? Corrales/Castillo?

[Idisagree]

BULLSHIT!

Why? He stopped him with the black/blue bottle and he stopped him without it. Arguello at that weight class was simply not as effective as a lightweight and below. I don't see how Arguello could turn this fight around. Perhaps if he uses the black/blue bottle himself he could win

It was an epic war. Pryor wouldn't be in that condition ten times. It's a joke of an answer. So you would make Pryor what? A 100 to 1 favorite after watching that fight? 50 to 1? Bigger odds than Douglas against Tyson?

What's next? Leonard/Hearns? Corrales/Castillo?

That could be said for any fighter. How can you guarantee that Holyfield would come up 10 times out of 10 in the same dondition vs Tyson? What if Tyson was in his prime? (Based on your pick Holyfield vs Tyson) Or how can you guarantee that Arguello is going to come in at his best 10 times out 10? No way to predict that my friend. Based on the evidence Pryor was able to stop Arguello twice and I don't how he can turn that around.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Why? He stopped him with the black/blue bottle and he stopped him without it. Arguello at that weight class was simply not as effective as a lightweight and below. I don't see how Arguello could turn this fight around. Perhaps if he uses the black/blue bottle himself he could win

It was an epic war. Pryor wouldn't be in that condition ten times. It's a joke of an answer. So you would make Pryor what? A 100 to 1 favorite after watching that fight? 50 to 1? Bigger odds than Douglas against Tyson?

What's next? Leonard/Hearns? Corrales/Castillo?

That could be said for any fighter. How can you guarantee that Holyfield would come up 10 times out of 10 in the same dondition vs Tyson? What if Tyson was in his prime? There are too many variables for any fight. Based on the evidence Pryor was able to stop twice Arguello and I don't how he can turn that around.

Holyfield was always in condition. That's a little different scenario than a drug addict who had never exhibited that kind of chin. You can't say anything for sure in the fight game. But Tyson was never remotely competitive with Holyfield. Arguello gave Pryor absolute hell. It's a lot easier to forecast a mismatch to go the same way than it is one of the most intensely competitive wars in the history of the ring.

So I'll repeat, BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: To address your edit, i'd love to see Holyfield/Tyson in their primes. I thought we were talking about primes when i posted it. The only thing that would change is the fight would actually be exciting. Mike would still get his ass kicked and he knows that himself.

[keithmoonhangover]

It was an epic war. Pryor wouldn't be in that condition ten times. It's a joke of an answer. So you would make Pryor what? A 100 to 1 favorite after watching that fight? 50 to 1? Bigger odds than Douglas against Tyson?

What's next? Leonard/Hearns? Corrales/Castillo?

That could be said for any fighter. How can you guarantee that Holyfield would come up 10 times out of 10 in the same dondition vs Tyson? What if Tyson was in his prime? There are too many variables for any fight. Based on the evidence Pryor was able to stop twice Arguello and I don't how he can turn that around.

Holyfield was always in condition. That's a little different scenario than a drug addict who had never exhibited that kind of chin. You can't say anything for sure in the fight game. But Tyson was never remotely competitive with Holyfield. Arguello gave Pryor absolute hell. It's a lot easier to forecast a mismatch to go the same way than it is one of the most intensely competitive wars in the history of the ring.

So I'll repeat, BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: To address your edit, i'd love to see Holyfield/Tyson in their primes. I thought we were talking about primes when i posted it. The only thing that would change is the fight would actually be exciting. Mike would still get his ass kicked and he knows that himself.

You're right about Holyfield - Tyson, but you're wrong about Arguello and Prior. You're on your own. But no douby Irene will agree with you mate.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That could be said for any fighter. How can you guarantee that Holyfield would come up 10 times out of 10 in the same dondition vs Tyson? What if Tyson was in his prime? There are too many variables for any fight. Based on the evidence Pryor was able to stop twice Arguello and I don't how he can turn that around.

Holyfield was always in condition. That's a little different scenario than a drug addict who had never exhibited that kind of chin. You can't say anything for sure in the fight game. But Tyson was never remotely competitive with Holyfield. Arguello gave Pryor absolute hell. It's a lot easier to forecast a mismatch to go the same way than it is one of the most intensely competitive wars in the history of the ring.

So I'll repeat, BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: To address your edit, i'd love to see Holyfield/Tyson in their primes. I thought we were talking about primes when i posted it. The only thing that would change is the fight would actually be exciting. Mike would still get his ass kicked and he knows that himself.

you're wrong about Arguello and Prior.

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[keithmoonhangover]

Holyfield was always in condition. That's a little different scenario than a drug addict who had never exhibited that kind of chin. You can't say anything for sure in the fight game. But Tyson was never remotely competitive with Holyfield. Arguello gave Pryor absolute hell. It's a lot easier to forecast a mismatch to go the same way than it is one of the most intensely competitive wars in the history of the ring.

So I'll repeat, BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: To address your edit, i'd love to see Holyfield/Tyson in their primes. I thought we were talking about primes when i posted it. The only thing that would change is the fight would actually be exciting. Mike would still get his ass kicked and he knows that himself.

you're wrong about Arguello and Prior.

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a feeling this thread will run and run.

[BoxBuzz]

Maybe not as an old man that trained on Hotdogs and beer. In his prime he would have had a chance. I'd wager he would take at least one or two against any heavyweight.

Not against Ali mate. There is no evidence to support your case. Case dismissed.

There is plenty of evidence. If Ole Enery could almost knock him out and Doug Jones could outpoint him, an in shape, prime Liston could do either. Clay was afraid of him for a reason.

Based on this Ali is safe, since the second of these points is pure fiction, and the first is by and large a fluke.


Or was that Henry/Ali affair akin to the Hearns Duran doo dah?



Oops I'm goin' ta hell for this fer sure!

[Idisagree]

It was an epic war. Pryor wouldn't be in that condition ten times. It's a joke of an answer. So you would make Pryor what? A 100 to 1 favorite after watching that fight? 50 to 1? Bigger odds than Douglas against Tyson?

What's next? Leonard/Hearns? Corrales/Castillo?

That could be said for any fighter. How can you guarantee that Holyfield would come up 10 times out of 10 in the same dondition vs Tyson? What if Tyson was in his prime? There are too many variables for any fight. Based on the evidence Pryor was able to stop twice Arguello and I don't how he can turn that around.

Holyfield was always in condition. That's a little different scenario than a drug addict who had never exhibited that kind of chin. You can't say anything for sure in the fight game. But Tyson was never remotely competitive with Holyfield. Arguello gave Pryor absolute hell. It's a lot easier to forecast a mismatch to go the same way than it is one of the most intensely competitive wars in the history of the ring.

So I'll repeat, BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: To address your edit, i'd love to see Holyfield/Tyson in their primes. I thought we were talking about primes when i posted it. The only thing that would change is the fight would actually be exciting. Mike would still get his ass kicked and he knows that himself.

Precious my friend precious

I'm assuming that the fights we are talking about are under the same conditions. For the fight to be both at their best we have to talk about different weight classes and different decades. Arguello was at his very best in the 70's and Aaron in the early 80's. Under the same circumstances Aaron wins 10 out 10 for me.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That could be said for any fighter. How can you guarantee that Holyfield would come up 10 times out of 10 in the same dondition vs Tyson? What if Tyson was in his prime? There are too many variables for any fight. Based on the evidence Pryor was able to stop twice Arguello and I don't how he can turn that around.

Holyfield was always in condition. That's a little different scenario than a drug addict who had never exhibited that kind of chin. You can't say anything for sure in the fight game. But Tyson was never remotely competitive with Holyfield. Arguello gave Pryor absolute hell. It's a lot easier to forecast a mismatch to go the same way than it is one of the most intensely competitive wars in the history of the ring.

So I'll repeat, BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: To address your edit, i'd love to see Holyfield/Tyson in their primes. I thought we were talking about primes when i posted it. The only thing that would change is the fight would actually be exciting. Mike would still get his ass kicked and he knows that himself.

Precious my friend precious

I'm assuming that the fights we are talking about are under the same conditions. For the fight to be both at their best we have to talk about different weight classes and different decades. Arguello was at his very best in the 70's and Aaron in the early 80's. Under the same circumstances Aaron wins 10 out 10 for me.

So what are the odds? 100 to 1? 1,000 to 1? Or just Infinite to 1? The biggest mismatch in Boxing history.

[jaclem2]

..arguello was coming up to far in weight class for pryor, which is why pryor fought him...plus he knew the black bottle was there when he needed it. as for the second fight, there are ways other than swallowing a stimulant to absorb one. Pryor would never...never ..go in against any opponent unless he knew had a huge edge.


boxbuzz will join this discussion soon when he reads .... ezzard would beat archie ten out of ten.

[witherspoon]

Lennox Lewis v Evander Holyfield.

Take the first fight as best case scenario for Lewis, disciplined approach, good use of the jab and plenty of movement. Did anyone seriously see Holyfield winning more than 3 rounds (and those debatable too).

Second fight Lewis much more stationary and willing to stand and trade, wins the fight clearly, in my eyes.

If these are the best and worst case scenarios for Lewis I think he takes everything in between.

[dempseyfire]

Lennox Lewis v Evander Holyfield.

Take the first fight as best case scenario for Lewis, disciplined approach, good use of the jab and plenty of movement. Did anyone seriously see Holyfield winning more than 3 rounds (and those debatable too).

Second fight Lewis much more stationary and willing to stand and trade, wins the fight clearly, in my eyes.

If these are the best and worst case scenarios for Lewis I think he takes everything in between.

Bullshit!!

Odd choice to make, considering myself and the majority of ringside reporters scored the rematch for Holyfield. Lewis was at his peak and Evander well past his and he struggled with Holyfield both times (yes, Lewis had some big moments in their first fight but it had lots of close rounds where Lennox didn't do much of anything)

[keithmoonhangover]

Lennox Lewis v Evander Holyfield.

Take the first fight as best case scenario for Lewis, disciplined approach, good use of the jab and plenty of movement. Did anyone seriously see Holyfield winning more than 3 rounds (and those debatable too).

Second fight Lewis much more stationary and willing to stand and trade, wins the fight clearly, in my eyes.

If these are the best and worst case scenarios for Lewis I think he takes everything in between.

Bullshit!!

Odd choice to make, considering myself and the majority of ringside reporters scored the rematch for Holyfield. Lewis was at his peak and Evander well past his and he struggled with Holyfield both times (yes, Lewis had some big moments in their first fight but it had lots of close rounds where Lennox didn't do much of anything)

Are you american Dempseyfire?

[witherspoon]

Lennox Lewis v Evander Holyfield.

Take the first fight as best case scenario for Lewis, disciplined approach, good use of the jab and plenty of movement. Did anyone seriously see Holyfield winning more than 3 rounds (and those debatable too).

Second fight Lewis much more stationary and willing to stand and trade, wins the fight clearly, in my eyes.

If these are the best and worst case scenarios for Lewis I think he takes everything in between.

Bullshit!!

Odd choice to make, considering myself and the majority of ringside reporters scored the rematch for Holyfield. Lewis was at his peak and Evander well past his and he struggled with Holyfield both times (yes, Lewis had some big moments in their first fight but it had lots of close rounds where Lennox didn't do much of anything)

The only criticism I can make of Lewis in the first fight (being extremely harsh) is that he was not aggressive enough when he had Holyfield in trouble. Even Harold Lederman could not give Evander more than three rounds!

To my eye, Holyfield looked very strong in both fights and nowhere near washed up. He fought hard all the way in both fights. When Lewis used alot of movement and long, hard jabs Holyfield could do nothing to get near him.
The second fight was closer because Lewis was much more stationary, Holyfield closed the gap on Lewis in the mid rounds before Lewis pulled away in the last 3-4 rounds.

Dempseyfire, it would be interesting to see your scoring of the second fight, if you post yours I will do the same. I did watch these fights very recently, after many years, and have to say that I was surprised how widely I gave the rematch to Lewis, having heard for years how Evander was robbed.

[Syntax Error]

I really like this idea for a thread, but it's not mine.

Giancarlo said Foreman - Frazier and I have to agree.

I'll go for a really obvious Tyson - Spinks.

First one to name a fight that doesn't qualify must be shot down with a BULLSH1T!!!!

How can anyone be shot down when it's all hypothetical?

There are already more than enough people on these types of forum who think that their opinions are fact & are more valid than others as it is.

Anyway, here's my bullshine:-

Ali -v- Foreman.

Ali was too tough to be ever KO'd by Foreman & Foreman was too slow & one dimensional to outpoint even a faded Ali with no legs, let alone the pre 1970 version who never stopped moving..