Haye-Klit predict the strategy

[Bard of Boxrec]

I've flipflopped back and forth on this just as much as everyone else. But I'm pretty sure Haye will fight his usual potshotting affair and step in with combos if he has success. Wlad will be his usual cautious self until he sees Haye can be hurt.

As for the result, it's got to be Wlad by KO after some hairy moments for him. I've changed my mind a few times and would obviously love to be wrong. I can definitely see Haye clipping him and going in for the kill, but he would really need to hurt Wlad with single shots, and Wlad won't see any power he hasn't experienced before.

I would say it's around 70-30 in favour of Wlad KO here.

[ed robinson]

If anyone's interested, a twenty minute long interview with Haye has just gone up on Sky Anytime. It was done last Friday in the Park Plaza, Haye's fight base. He'd just done a heavy leg weights session and was ready for a nap but still talks a great fight. Normally these things are cut right down in edit but this runs it's full course.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

If Wlad has any sense then they would watch the Bowe-Hide video - Wlad needs to use his 'bigness' to wear down and knock the fight out of Haye. If Wlad allows Haye to keep out of the way and potshot him then there is a massive chance that one of those bombs will kiss him goodnight. Wlad does have a fantastic jab but he is also up against a man who is faster and can knock him out - oh, and who isn't afraid of him.

[Counter-puncher]

Haye is going to fight as a southpaw

This.

Seriously, though, who knows what plan Booth will dream up next? Will he secretly graft batwings onto the back of Haye, to lift him up into the air, out of Wlad's reach? & then to swoop in on darting divebombing raids, thus negating both Wlad's jab & his height in one fell, er, swoop? I've looked, nowhere in the unified rules does it prohibit the use of batwings.

It's gonna be just like the Fan Man, except this time the audience will be full of Germans & hopefully Haye won't have to be carried out of the arena.

hahaha, quality stuff

[nobby_nobbins]

I think one of the key differences between the two is how they react when caught cleanly. Wladimir goes into a defensive shell while Haye goes for revenge with a big shot of his own. Of course, Haye could find himself walking onto more punishment when he does that, but I pick him to turn the tables on Wladimir after being hurt and knock him out.

[Happy Slapper]

I can't see Haye fighting on the backfoot

Of course he is going to fight of the backfoot, thats the one thing you dont need a crystle ball to predict in this fight.

I don't see it, this is not Valuev. He's not going to be able to run around against the ropes all night countering with Wlad. I think his best chance is to come out all guns blazing and make Wlad nervous - send him into his shell.

[tonyevs]

I don't see it, this is not Valuev. He's not going to be able to run around against the ropes all night countering with Wlad. I think his best chance is to come out all guns blazing and make Wlad nervous - send him into his shell.

And in what heavyweight fight has Haye done this before?
Haye does not fight this way at heavyweight .. take another look at his last fight to see how he deals with big heavies ...

[Cas]

Haye isn't going to come out all guns blazing. Haye has to put Wlad away early to win this one. Wlad will dominate this fight after the 6'th round - it's his territory.

Wlad in the 8'th by a bloody mess.

[tonyevs]

I think the safe money is on a Wlad wide points win ... possibly every round.

Maybe a late stoppage for Wlad - if haye isn`t as negative as I expect. Either from being worn down gradually with the jab & grab .. or from haye going for broke in the last 2-3rnds, and getting cleanly KO`d.

[CB]

I don't see it, this is not Valuev. He's not going to be able to run around against the ropes all night countering with Wlad. I think his best chance is to come out all guns blazing and make Wlad nervous - send him into his shell.

And in what heavyweight fight has Haye done this before?
Haye does not fight this way at heavyweight .. take another look at his last fight to see how he deals with big heavies ...

But this is a totally different fight and fighter.

Why will he fight the same way? Are you saying he is not adaptable? Limited even?

[allahsnackbar]

I don't see it, this is not Valuev. He's not going to be able to run around against the ropes all night countering with Wlad. I think his best chance is to come out all guns blazing and make Wlad nervous - send him into his shell.

And in what heavyweight fight has Haye done this before?
Haye does not fight this way at heavyweight .. take another look at his last fight to see how he deals with big heavies ...

But this is a totally different fight and fighter.

Why will he fight the same way? Are you saying he is not adaptable? Limited even?

It couldn't be more obvious that Haye is going to fight off the backfoot and try to outbox Wlad mate. Haye on points is my prediction.

[lvlarc]

Why would Haye try to win over the distance when he knows Wlad is chinny and becomes fragile once hurt. If he allows Klitschko to get accustomed into his usual rhythm of dictacting the pace with the jab, then the fight is as good as over.

Clip here of their face off on HBO with Max Kellerman, must watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEl_FgA ... ata_player

[tonyevs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEl_FgA ... ata_player

Haye sounds as confident as Wlad. But his eyes say differently ... his mannerisms seem forced to me.

[Glyn Leach]

Haye's a massive puncher and Wlad has a glass jaw - both myths.
It took Haye 10 knockdowns to get rid of Barrett, Ruiz and Audley, he's no knockout artist, more a fast, sharp puncher who stuns opponents.
Chinny old Wlad's been down 11 times but has only lost 3 fights - he has come off the floor to win, which is more than Lennox or Tyson ever did, and no one calls them glass jawed.
That's why Booth and Haye won't go for a shit or bust attack. They're aware that putting Wlad down and keeping him there are very different things and that Audley aside it has taken Haye several knockdowns to get rid of heavyweight opponents. They have to be cautious not kamikaze to beat Wlad.

[manno]

Haye's a massive puncher and Wlad has a glass jaw - both myths.
It took Haye 10 knockdowns to get rid of Barrett, Ruiz and Audley, he's no knockout artist, more a fast, sharp puncher who stuns opponents.
Chinny old Wlad's been down 11 times but has only lost 3 fights - he has come off the floor to win, which is more than Lennox or Tyson ever did, and no one calls them glass jawed.
That's why Booth and Haye won't go for a shit or bust attack. They're aware that putting Wlad down and keeping him there are very different things and that Audley aside it has taken Haye several knockdowns to get rid of heavyweight opponents. They have to be cautious not kamikaze to beat Wlad.

Great point, as i said earlier i wouldn't be suprised to see 1 or the other boxing into a steady lead rather than the crash,bang,wallop many predict. I really dont think Haye can/will be meassured tho if he wobbles or even drops Wlad', its just not in his fighting make up. I think Haye can frustrate Wlad and draw him on if he uses his head. Its not that Wlad is slow but Haye is exceptionally fast of hand and foot at this poundage.

[allahsnackbar]

Why would Haye try to win over the distance when he knows Wlad is chinny and becomes fragile once hurt. If he allows Klitschko to get accustomed into his usual rhythm of dictacting the pace with the jab, then the fight is as good as over.

Clip here of their face off on HBO with Max Kellerman, must watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEl_FgA ... ata_player

haye is talking about "breaking him down" "outboxing him". this is a long 12 round fight. haye has enough about him to avoid wlads right hand imo. he can also avoid the jab. i have no doubt he can get through 12 rounds by moving on the outside and wlad will have a hard time landing the jab even, if haye is prepared to run all night

[davie]

I have some questions.....

1. What happens if Wladimir walks through Haye's punches?

a proven weak chin against a proven power puncher. there is no "what if?" for me. wlad needs to hope he can keep haye at distance as he always does.

2. What happens if Haye tires in the later rounds?

this is interesting, a few people have commented on haye building up muscle, to get the power to take him out early. haye will tell you he's ready for 12 (they always do) but i think your spot on with this. if it goes to the later rounds, wlad will already have a points advantage and will only get stronger as haye tires. haye won't get away with doing as little as he did against valuev

3. What happens if Haye walks through the Wladimir's jab?

again, like Q1, i can't see it happening. wlad has a very powerful jab, it would be madness to try and walk through it. plus if you did walk through it, you'd be faced with another one as he'd just double them up or start throwing straight lef/right combos and demolish haye, as everyone else has commented haye needs lateral movement, he need to get round wlads jab to land, walking through it isn't an option

[davie]

Why would Haye try to win over the distance when he knows Wlad is chinny and becomes fragile once hurt. If he allows Klitschko to get accustomed into his usual rhythm of dictacting the pace with the jab, then the fight is as good as over.

Clip here of their face off on HBO with Max Kellerman, must watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEl_FgA ... ata_player

the most noticable thing that i took from that video is about 7.30 in haye starts talking about vitali and the interviewer mentions that it seems to get to wlad and wlad just can't speak, he can't reply as he is so angry.

that is exactly what david is trying to do, to get wlad riled, as an irrational wlad in the ring won't work, he's methodical, accurate and patient in a ring. if haye can come out and say something to vitalli as he walks in the ring and gets wlad angry i think he can really disrupt his game plan.

then again, wlad might get pissed and just start swinging and knockhim out

[Cas]

[/quote]

It couldn't be more obvious that Haye is going to fight off the backfoot and try to outbox Wlad mate. Haye on points is my prediction.[/quote]

Cannot see Haye winning a points victory in Hamburg. Wladimir is suited for the 12 rounds and barely losses a round, let alone a decision.

Haye to be up the cards by the 6'th round is likely but he'll fold in the latter half. Wlad isn't losing a decision here pal.

[ed robinson]

Personal opinion, I think there are ways to beat Wladimir but it's far from easy. You've got to completely break his rhythm, unsettle and fluster him. To do that you've got to be fast, unpredictable, have decent power, confidence in your own chin - so that you can force an occasional prolonged exchange and also have the stamina to see out your plan. Wlad is a thinking boxer, not really a natural fighter, so when he jabs you step right back out of range, then he jabs and you step in and throw your right hand straight over his jab , you ruffle him up inside, then take a walk, suddenly storm in, throw the 'wrong' shot technically, the unexpected shot. Tire him out mentally, make him jittery. I think he struggles combining emotion with his boxing - he boxes clinically, boxes cold.

I agree with Glyn that Wlad's chin isn't as bad as people think, not sure I agree there's a myth about Haye's power but I take his point. I believe that Wladimir has a good defence but his body is so upright and rigid so when he has been caught in the past, which is rare - it's had quite an effect because he was caught clean.

The only alternative argument I can think of as far as strategy is that perhaps Adam and David have genuinely seen a flaw that they can exploit. Wladimir is quite predictable, a creature of habit. I'm thinking something along the lines of McCall v Lewis 1, a fight plan that ironically Emanuel Steward claims he came up with. Where they've worked tirelessly on one perfect shot so that they can also time it perfectly. If it doesn't actually knock Wlad out then at least David's a great finisher.

[keithmoonhangover]

Personal opinion, I think there are ways to beat Wladimir but it's far from easy. You've got to completely break his rhythm, unsettle and fluster him. To do that you've got to be fast, unpredictable, have decent power, confidence in your own chin - so that you can force an occasional prolonged exchange and also have the stamina to see out your plan. Wlad is a thinking boxer, not really a natural fighter, so when he jabs you step right back out of range, then he jabs and you step in and throw your right hand straight over his jab , you ruffle him up inside, then take a walk, suddenly storm in, throw the 'wrong' shot technically, the unexpected shot. Tire him out mentally, make him jittery. I think he struggles combining emotion with his boxing - he boxes clinically, boxes cold.

I agree with Glyn that Wlad's chin isn't as bad as people think, not sure I agree there's a myth about Haye's power but I take his point. I believe that Wladimir has a good defence but his body is so upright and rigid so when he has been caught in the past, which is rare - it's had quite an effect because he was caught clean.

The only alternative argument I can think of as far as strategy is that perhaps Adam and David have genuinely seen a flaw that they can exploit. Wladimir is quite predictable, a creature of habit. I'm thinking something along the lines of McCall v Lewis 1, a fight plan that ironically Emanuel Steward claims he came up with. Where they've worked tirelessly on one perfect shot so that they can also time it perfectly. If it doesn't actually knock Wlad out then at least David's a great finisher.

I asked Glynn, so I'll ask you Ed... If I gave you a million quid, who would you bet it on?

[hurlock]

glyn i agree with haye staying away as you have allready read , but nick a pts decision in germany come on :!: i thought he was lucky there once.

im really intrigued@? to see how the first rd pans out :!: wlad is alot more conservative then vitali, but im guessing steward will want him to impose himself on haye from the off & nulify him & keep him at range while holding centre.haye needs to be jack dempsey like but he wont. booths tactics coincides with his fighters weakness imo.

[Grilling Machine]

I can see Klitschko knocking Haye down early doors. If Haye comes out swinging, Wlad's gonna cup his forehead with his hands, Eubank-style, and take the minimum of punishment before an opportunity to tie presents. Cover-and-tie, cover-and-tie. And he's a bloody big lad; his physical strength lends him a massive defensive advantage unless he's hurt.

If this happens, Haye could blow himself out or change tack to allow himself time for a rethink. Then Wlad starts finding his rhythm with the jab, gaining confidence in the centre.

In a calm, controlled fight, I'd posit Klitschko has the strongest hand. That's why I feel he'll win - because it's (ostensibly) foolish for Haye to blast away from the first bell. However, Haye has a 'Nigel Benn mode', a switch that triggers when he's hurt, and I believe that enraged, running-on-fear-and-adrenaline version of Haye could knock out anyone. The problem is that Benn had the two gears - angry and angrier. Haye doesn't come to life until he realises that his best tactical efforts would incur more pain.

If Wlad knocks him down - causes embarrassment - and he still has enough co-ordination and motor control upon rising, I fancy Haye rocking the roof with a KO reply. If Haye had Tyson's chin I don't think there'd be much of an argument over the likely winner. He doesn't, so I believe the fight rests on whether Klitschko makes Haye mad, without catching him flush enough to end it.

[ed robinson]

Hey Keithmoonhangover

I think that being asked what's going to happen is like being asked what number is about to come up on the roll of a dice. Even if you watched every second of their sparring and preparation and could read their minds you still couldn't make a prediction with any authority.

I've always rated David really highly - I remember watching him spar with some very good pro's when he was really just a kid and he looked sensational. Everything came so easy to him so I just wasn't sure he'd ever train with the intensity to really do his talent justice. He does work incredibly hard now but I still can't quite believe he's a heavyweight. I don't really buy all this not being able to make cruiser talk, I think he's built himself up a fair bit. When Michael Sprott first came down to Reading ABC for sparring he was already such a big lump - probably nearly 15 stone. No one could believe that he was just 15. At the same age I think David looked more like a middleweight.

Someone said to me the other day that Haye is just looking for a final massive pay day and knows that he'll lose, which is why he's been less outspoken in the final build up. I don't buy that for one second, David is a natural born winner with the ego to match. And I mean that as a compliment. He's concentrating on winning the fight - not on selling it.

Anyway, they're both talented so I'd logically have to go for the much bigger man. But that's also how the bookies have it. So if i had to put my house on the result I'd go Wlad but if I had a million to bet I'd go for something more interesting.

[Counter-puncher]

^^^^ apropos Hearns/Hagler, i seem to recall the first 3 jabs that Hearns threw were inside-slipped by Hagler before he smashed 3 left hands into Hearns' body.

RE looping shots i think Haye needs to watch it. he gets excited and puts himself in danger of hand damage/point deductions with wild wide swinging stuff CF Ruiz Barrett and the Audley 'finish'.