Jack Dempsey vs Jerry Quarry, primes

[The Great John L]

Quarry was one of my all time favorite HWs, but he struggled with speed and Dempsey was extremely quick of hand and foot and was also a very hard hitter. Dempsey would have been a very bad matchup for Jerry.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Quarry was one of my all time favorite HWs, but he struggled with speed and Dempsey was extremely quick of hand and foot and was also a very hard hitter. Dempsey would have been a very bad matchup for Jerry.

I am frankly stunned otherwise-intelligent members are somehow questioning this very scenario.

Quarry is not in Dempsey's class, & he does not have any kind of stylistic advantage with which to bridge the gap.

[The Great John L]

Quarry is not in Dempsey's class, & he does not have any kind of stylistic advantage with which to bridge the gap.

Yes, 98% of the time the styles are what make the difference when quality fighters meet. It surprises me how many otherwise intelligent posters seem to forget this when they consider mythical matchups.

Of course, I think the issue here seems to be that many on here seem to feel that the Quarry era was vastly superior than the Dempsey era. At least to me that's how it seems given the many comments about how Quarry's opposition was better than Dempsey's. While I think Quarry's fights against Ali and Frazier certainly set the bar high, I would say that Dempsey fought more fights against top fighters, which in itself presents unique challenges, especially when it was during a time of less than ideal conditions.

As a Quarry fan though, I do appreciate the respect that he is receiving.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Some in this thread, though, under-value the level of Dempseys comp.

[The Great John L]

Some in this thread, though, under-value the level of Dempseys comp.

They probably don't know who most of them were.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Doubtless, the reason.

[Ezzard]

You also have to remember that Dempsey’s record pre-championship is better than his championship record due to the years he took off.

So many people see few defences for his tenure as champion. But in reality his pre championship record is one of the best and up there with Jack Johnson, Joe Louis and Mike Tyson.

Miske
Levinsky
Fulton
Morris
Brennan
Gunboat Smith
Willard
Sharkey

I mean at least half of them would have been title holders in the 80s.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think Quarry has reached the overrated phase and it didn't start here. Dempseyfire wasn't the only one picking him over Holyfield. And that style is horrific for him.

[Ezzard]

Quarry is one of the better non-champions... In the alphabet era he'd have held a title for longer than Tubbs, Page, Dokes and the rest... I rate him.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Quarry is one of the better non-champions... In the alphabet era he'd have held a title for longer than Tubbs, Page, Dokes and the rest... I rate him.

He was very solid. Some mistake him for being great. Quarry/Dokes is a nice fight.

[The Great John L]

He was very solid. Some mistake him for being great. Quarry/Dokes is a nice fight.

Yes that would be good, as would Quarry/Holyfield.

Why do you think Holy would have been a tough style for Quarry? The HW version of Holy frequently got lazy and inactive during many of his fights, and he was hardly a quick footed jabbing machine.

BTW, I would favor Holy over Quarry as well, but I think it's a good style matchup for both and would probably be entertaining and competitive.

[Ambling Alp]

When Quarry fought the really elite fighters, Ali, Frazier and Norton, he got beat badly. Not just that he was 0-5, but he never made it past the 7th round. He did have some nice wins but nothing that compares to beating Demspey. Quarry could not compete with great fighters and he would not be competitive with Dempsey.

As Ezz mentioned, Dempsey beat some really good fighters before he won the title. And he beat them very convincingly.

Demspey did not have the best chin, but it was good. Quarry was not a dynamite puncher anyway. Quarry had a weak defense and Dempsey would have no problem getting to him. It may have been pretty exciting for a couple of rounds, but Dempsey is going beat him to a pulp. Dempsey was a force of nature that was way too much for Quarry.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He was very solid. Some mistake him for being great. Quarry/Dokes is a nice fight.

Yes that would be good, as would Quarry/Holyfield.

Why do you think Holy would have been a tough style for Quarry? The HW version of Holy frequently got lazy and inactive during many of his fights, and he was hardly a quick footed jabbing machine.

BTW, I would favor Holy over Quarry as well, but I think it's a good style matchup for both and would probably be entertaining and competitive.

Tremendous counter puncher, faster and stronger than Jerry. Holyfield had great feet, you don't have to dance to have great footwork. He was always in position to punch. He wouldn't dance and jab and he wouldn't have to. I just see him as being better than Jerry at everything. It would be fun, he would get his licks in. But the end result would always be the same, a beating for Quarry.

The inactivity was much more a part of his post-prime fights. But that guy would still beat any Quarry.

[The Great John L]

When Quarry fought the really elite fighters, Ali, Frazier and Norton, he got beat badly. Not just that he was 0-5, but he never made it past the 7th round. He did have some nice wins but nothing that compares to beating Demspey. Quarry could not compete with great fighters and he would not be competitive with Dempsey.

As I've stated, I would favor Dempsey over Quarry, but to say that Quarry "could not compete with great fighters" doesn't seem reasonable. His fight with Norton was quite competitive until he ran out of gas, due mostly to the fact that he took the fight as a replacement for Ringo and was obvioulsy not well prepared. Despite his soft condition, he still had Norton hanging on so it hardly seems logical that a prime, well prepared Quarry would have been a walkover for Norton.

Quarry would have matched up well against a number of greats. Boxing is a game of styles, and it was the speed of Frazier and Ali that ultimately caused his demise, and not all "great" HWs would have presented him with those same problems, including one large well known one that fought during the later stages of Jerry's career.

Just go down any list of the top 20 HWs and it's easy to find a few that would have had a great deal of difficulty with a prime Quarry.

As far as Holyfield is concerned, he showed lapses in just about all of his HW fights that went any length, and he hardly had the hand or footspeed of Ali. I favor Holy over Quarry, but I think many aspects of his game are somewhat overrated now, and he would have struggled with Jerry as he struggled with many lesser fighters during just about every phase of his HW career. Holy, like Quarry was both a great counterpuncher, and inconsistent.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He wouldn't need the hand or foot speed of ali. His was plenty for that fight. And Holyfield was pretty damn consistent when it came to fighters that bring the fight to him. That's what he loved and that's exactly what Quarry would do.

Not that I was trying to dredge up that debate. Just worth mentioning that Quarry, tough as he was, gets more credit on here than his talents warrant.

[Goodnight, Irene]

He was very solid. Some mistake him for being great. Quarry/Dokes is a nice fight.

Yes that would be good, as would Quarry/Holyfield.

Why do you think Holy would have been a tough style for Quarry? The HW version of Holy frequently got lazy and inactive during many of his fights, and he was hardly a quick footed jabbing machine.

BTW, I would favor Holy over Quarry as well, but I think it's a good style matchup for both and would probably be entertaining and competitive.

Tremendous counter puncher, faster and stronger than Jerry. Holyfield had great feet, you don't have to dance to have great footwork. He was always in position to punch. He wouldn't dance and jab and he wouldn't have to. I just see him as being better than Jerry at everything. It would be fun, he would get his licks in. But the end result would always be the same, a beating for Quarry.

The inactivity was much more a part of his post-prime fights. But that guy would still beat any Quarry.

He was, additionally, always in position to be punched

Kidding aside, I was thinking about this fight, & I kind of fall between you & the Dempsey-John L. line of thought. That is, it's going to be competitive for a while, in my mind, but Holyfield will have won relatively convincingly by fight's end. Not tight all the way, as they envision it, but no shut-out (or near to that), as you view it in your mind's eye.

[Goodnight, Irene]

When Quarry fought the really elite fighters, Ali, Frazier and Norton, he got beat badly. Not just that he was 0-5, but he never made it past the 7th round. He did have some nice wins but nothing that compares to beating Demspey. Quarry could not compete with great fighters and he would not be competitive with Dempsey.

As I've stated, I would favor Dempsey over Quarry, but to say that Quarry "could not compete with great fighters" doesn't seem reasonable. His fight with Norton was quite competitive until he ran out of gas, due mostly to the fact that he took the fight as a replacement for Ringo and was obvioulsy not well prepared. Despite his soft condition, he still had Norton hanging on so it hardly seems logical that a prime, well prepared Quarry would have been a walkover for Norton.

Quarry would have matched up well against a number of greats. Boxing is a game of styles, and it was the speed of Frazier and Ali that ultimately caused his demise, and not all "great" HWs would have presented him with those same problems, including one large well known one that fought during the later stages of Jerry's career.

Just go down any list of the top 20 HWs and it's easy to find a few that would have had a great deal of difficulty with a prime Quarry.

As far as Holyfield is concerned, he showed lapses in just about all of his HW fights that went any length, and he hardly had the hand or footspeed of Ali. I favor Holy over Quarry, but I think many aspects of his game are somewhat overrated now, and he would have struggled with Jerry as he struggled with many lesser fighters during just about every phase of his HW career. Holy, like Quarry was both a great counterpuncher, and inconsistent.

Don't much need speed when you can pound Quarry into dust any time you choose to, mate

I do agree that there was a degree of inconsistency to Holyfield even in the prime of his HW days, however.

[hhaehre]

He wouldn't need the hand or foot speed of ali. His was plenty for that fight. And Holyfield was pretty damn consistent when it came to fighters that bring the fight to him. That's what he loved and that's exactly what Quarry would do.

Quarry was a counter puncher who liked it when guys came to him. I think Holy would be the aggressor and force the fight. Holyfield would be to fast and a bit too good for Quarry but it would be competitive for a while imo. Quarry looked great against slow big guys who fought at a leisurely pace which is why a Foreman fight would have been intriguing. In the end Foreman would probably have been too big and strong but Quarry had the style to trouble him.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think George would have bashed open his face and stopped him on cuts in 3 or 4 rounds.

[hhaehre]

I think George would have bashed open his face and stopped him on cuts in 3 or 4 rounds.

You could be right, Quarry's two big problems were defense and stamina.

[Ambling Alp]

When Quarry fought the really elite fighters, Ali, Frazier and Norton, he got beat badly. Not just that he was 0-5, but he never made it past the 7th round. He did have some nice wins but nothing that compares to beating Demspey. Quarry could not compete with great fighters and he would not be competitive with Dempsey.

As I've stated, I would favor Dempsey over Quarry, but to say that Quarry "could not compete with great fighters" doesn't seem reasonable. His fight with Norton was quite competitive until he ran out of gas, due mostly to the fact that he took the fight as a replacement for Ringo and was obvioulsy not well prepared. Despite his soft condition, he still had Norton hanging on so it hardly seems logical that a prime, well prepared Quarry would have been a walkover for Norton.

Quarry would have matched up well against a number of greats. Boxing is a game of styles, and it was the speed of Frazier and Ali that ultimately caused his demise, and not all "great" HWs would have presented him with those same problems, including one large well known one that fought during the later stages of Jerry's career.

Just go down any list of the top 20 HWs and it's easy to find a few that would have had a great deal of difficulty with a prime Quarry.

As far as Holyfield is concerned, he showed lapses in just about all of his HW fights that went any length, and he hardly had the hand or footspeed of Ali. I favor Holy over Quarry, but I think many aspects of his game are somewhat overrated now, and he would have struggled with Jerry as he struggled with many lesser fighters during just about every phase of his HW career. Holy, like Quarry was both a great counterpuncher, and inconsistent.

I think it's pretty reasonalbe to say that Quarry could not compete with great fighters. He had 5 fights against 3 different opponents and got whipped badly each time. Frazier, Ali, and Norton all had widley varying styles.

We have discussed Quarry-Norton before and we vastly disagree. Quarry got his chance against Norton and got clobbered. Typicially, he started off well, and then wilts. He just had a 10 round fight a month before Norton; no excuse for being out of shape. That was a huge fight and he had to know that.