Syntax Error wrote:Ali was at his absolute best in 1966 & 1967 & I think the Cleveland Williams fight was his absolute peak.
Obviously, he has banned at the height of his powers & theoretically could have been even better in 1968/69/70.
Saying that, he did enjoy a mini renaissance in 1972, when he'd shaken off the ring rust; had filled out properly & was dancing again, right before his legs went again in '73 & pretty much forever.
That's how I see it too. I saw his comeback fight with Quarry. He had lost a split second of his reflexes /timing / flow of his mode of attack at that point. He was 99% after the layoff as far as I am concerned. Still he made hamburger out of Quarry and Patterson.
If you look at the before lay off and after lay off fights you will see that he had lost something. I think what he lost was his ability to react with the speed he had previously. Instincts do not leave a fighter buy reaction time is not easy to recover once it is lost.
Syntax Error wrote:Ali was at his absolute best in 1966 & 1967 & I think the Cleveland Williams fight was his absolute peak.
Obviously, he has banned at the height of his powers & theoretically could have been even better in 1968/69/70.
Saying that, he did enjoy a mini renaissance in 1972, when he'd shaken off the ring rust; had filled out properly & was dancing again, right before his legs went again in '73 & pretty much forever.
That's how I see it too. I saw his comeback fight with Quarry. He had lost a split second of his reflexes /timing / flow of his mode of attack at that point. He was 99% after the layoff as far as I am concerned. Still he made hamburger out of Quarry and Patterson.
If you look at the before lay off and after lay off fights you will see that he had lost something. I think what he lost was his ability to react with the speed he had previously. Instincts do not leave a fighter buy reaction time is not easy to recover once it is lost.
Can't agree with your analysis of the second Patterson fight, that he made "hamburger" out of Patterson. Patterson fought his best fight in many years and was frustrating Ali with his peek-a-boo defense before suffering the eye damage in the sixth round that forced the referee to halt the fight in the seventh. One judge had Floyd ahead after five, as I did.
Syntax Error wrote:Ali was at his absolute best in 1966 & 1967 & I think the Cleveland Williams fight was his absolute peak.
Obviously, he has banned at the height of his powers & theoretically could have been even better in 1968/69/70.
Saying that, he did enjoy a mini renaissance in 1972, when he'd shaken off the ring rust; had filled out properly & was dancing again, right before his legs went again in '73 & pretty much forever.
That's how I see it too. I saw his comeback fight with Quarry. He had lost a split second of his reflexes /timing / flow of his mode of attack at that point. He was 99% after the layoff as far as I am concerned. Still he made hamburger out of Quarry and Patterson.
If you look at the before lay off and after lay off fights you will see that he had lost something. I think what he lost was his ability to react with the speed he had previously. Instincts do not leave a fighter buy reaction time is not easy to recover once it is lost.
Can't agree with your analysis of the second Patterson fight, that he made "hamburger" out of Patterson. Patterson fought his best fight in many years and was frustrating Ali with his peek-a-boo defense before suffering the eye damage in the sixth round that forced the referee to halt the fight in the seventh. One judge had Floyd ahead after five, as I did.
Well. I did not see the second fight. But I did see the first. Perhaps I should have said omelet if the punishment resulted in his eye being the reason for stopping the fight. I suspect it was Ali who turned the eye into a condition requiring the stoppage. Wolcott was ahead of Marcianio when Marcianio finaly caught up with him. In the final analysis it is the decision that makes the end of the argument.
Patterson had as much heart as Ali. Both were good men in my estimation. The first boxing book I read was Pattersons Victory Over Myself. It was an inspiring book for a teenager to read.
Ali's fights were often in the center of a cultural upheaval. Many people hate him for those reasons.
Goodnight, Irene wrote:Im starting to see why youre the back-up God...
Shame on you, casting stones....you are usually so understated and humble. It's not like you to take a fellow contributor to task this way. A few Hail Mary's are in order.
The Second God wrote:
That's how I see it too. I saw his comeback fight with Quarry. He had lost a split second of his reflexes /timing / flow of his mode of attack at that point. He was 99% after the layoff as far as I am concerned. Still he made hamburger out of Quarry and Patterson.
If you look at the before lay off and after lay off fights you will see that he had lost something. I think what he lost was his ability to react with the speed he had previously. Instincts do not leave a fighter buy reaction time is not easy to recover once it is lost.
Can't agree with your analysis of the second Patterson fight, that he made "hamburger" out of Patterson. Patterson fought his best fight in many years and was frustrating Ali with his peek-a-boo defense before suffering the eye damage in the sixth round that forced the referee to halt the fight in the seventh. One judge had Floyd ahead after five, as I did.
Well. I did not see the second fight. But I did see the first. Perhaps I should have said omelet if the punishment resulted in his eye being the reason for stopping the fight. I suspect it was Ali who turned the eye into a condition requiring the stoppage. Wolcott was ahead of Marcianio when Marcianio finaly caught up with him. In the final analysis it is the decision that makes the end of the argument.
Patterson had as much heart as Ali. Both were good men in my estimation. The first boxing book I read was Pattersons Victory Over Myself. It was an inspiring book for a teenager to read.
Ali's fights were often in the center of a cultural upheaval. Many people hate him for those reasons.
I thought your analogy was off; turning someone to hamburger implies that someone is being ground down i.e. through a meat grinder. Floyd was competitive until the stoppage, and giving as good as he got. Of course, Ali won the fight fair and square, and nobody has ever claimed otherwise. But it is incorrect to say he "made hamburger" out of Patterson.
Goodnight, Irene wrote:Im starting to see why youre the back-up God...
Shame on you, casting stones....you are usually so understated and humble. It's not like you to take a fellow contributor to task this way. A few Hail Mary's are in order.
Youre still the king of consistency around here, Buzz
raylawpc wrote:
Can't agree with your analysis of the second Patterson fight, that he made "hamburger" out of Patterson. Patterson fought his best fight in many years and was frustrating Ali with his peek-a-boo defense before suffering the eye damage in the sixth round that forced the referee to halt the fight in the seventh. One judge had Floyd ahead after five, as I did.
I'll accept that.
Well. I did not see the second fight. But I did see the first. Perhaps I should have said omelet if the punishment resulted in his eye being the reason for stopping the fight. I suspect it was Ali who turned the eye into a condition requiring the stoppage. Wolcott was ahead of Marcianio when Marcianio finaly caught up with him. In the final analysis it is the decision that makes the end of the argument.
Patterson had as much heart as Ali. Both were good men in my estimation. The first boxing book I read was Pattersons Victory Over Myself. It was an inspiring book for a teenager to read.
Ali's fights were often in the center of a cultural upheaval. Many people hate him for those reasons.
I thought your analogy was off; turning someone to hamburger implies that someone is being ground down i.e. through a meat grinder. Floyd was competitive until the stoppage, and giving as good as he got. Of course, Ali won the fight fair and square, and nobody has ever claimed otherwise. But it is incorrect to say he "made hamburger" out of Patterson.
