Boente says "The British fans don't like Haye"!

[Finn]

In response to your comments which i have highlighted:

Because floyd is an american who isnt ppv in britain. And you were making the comment that Haye (a british fighter) isnt ppv in the US.

Wow who knew americans can be ignorant of things that go on outside their own country, you should know that since im assuming you're a brit.

JMM is a mexican who lives california - i belive they have a few mexicans in the US.
Pac fights mostly in the US and the actual fight is going to be in the US. So that would explain that wouldnt it.

Also just because a fight isnt big in the US doesnt mean its not big - this may be a confusing concept for you but 832 million people live in europe and plenty of them are boxing fans, especially the germans, ex soviets and the British. Again i expect you know this. So why you've written this nonesense is beyond me!

Next you'll be telling me the world cup isnt the biggest sporting event in the world because the americans dont watch football/soccer and a US presenter doesnt know who messi is.

Without a doubt the US market is massive but its not the end all and be all of everything, if it was they would have a decent HW contender.

And most intellegent americans would probably agree with my comments.

I see you've resorted to the tired old national stereotypes to make your argument: No americans like football and they are all ignorant about things outside their own country.

At the end of the day I stand by my comments that this isn't a massive fight, and that if it was a huge event for boxing it would be on ppv in the states and getting more coverage in key markets such as Mexico. It would also not be in Hamburg. I accept that exposure in the USA is not the be-all and end-all of boxing. I've never said it is. But it remains a barometer of how big the event is in this sport - particularly in a division they have always been obsessed with.

As I stated above, I was in NY last week with the 'intelligent americans' you speak of (who are also boxing fans). And no, none of them are particularly interested in this fight.

But my argument was never intended to be about Americans or America - it was just one of the examples I raised to highlight that this fight isn't as huge as people are saying it is. Looks like from the posts above a few people agree with me, but I respect your opinion that this is not the case. We'll agree to disagree.

Put it this way: If Haye didn't exist but there was a Spanish boxer (for example) that had beaten Audley and then run around the ring against Valuev for 12 rounds, would you describe a fight between him and Wlad as a 'huge' fight or 'the biggest boxing match for 10 years'? Of course you wouldn't. Would you even watch it? Would you pay to watch it?

And that's exactly the point I'm making: It may be an interesting/exciting/big night for us british sports fans who want to cheer on one of our own and perhaps see some rare success, but in no way is it a 'massive' fight for most boxing fans around the world or one that is lighting up the boxing world. And no amount of cheerleading and bandwagoning by our 'us against the germans' press can change that.

im not to sure what is going on in your head. what exactly is your version of massive? If a sports commentator on one of the US's biggest sports programs doesnt know who one of the HW champions of the world is he must be pretty ignorant. And if your version of around the world only includes the UK, US and mexico i think you need a geography lesson. As i've said 853 million people live in europe it doesnt need to be big in the US to be a massive fight.

The main reason the yanks arent interested in the HW division is because they dont have any elite fighters.

As to the above point you made - which i've highlighted. You're Wrong! I would acknowledge that ANY fight that is expected to have 91,000,000 viewers world wide is a massive fight whether i would buy it or not. Its even PPV in australia at $49 a pop.

Tyson v Holfield was the first fight to have 100 million viewers - or as don king would say "a billion" viewers there's your yard stick. Pacs biggest fight had an estimated 115 million viewers incidentally.

[Final round]

It's a big fight the biggest after Pac-Floyd the boxing world are rightly excited!

[john welsh]

Want wlad to win,dont like haye and his arrogant team.

got 2 quid on wlad to ko haye in the 5th! should get 44 pounds back when it happens.

[stujones]

Inaccurate to say Wlad killed the division though, he can only beat what's out there and I don't think he's ducked anyone. Not his fault the big Americans now channel into easier but lucrative sports.

Good points. The people who claim the Klitschkos have killed heavyweight boxing are simply looking in the wrong place. The heavyweight division is alive and well in the former Eastern Bloc countries plus West Germany (as was). There is a genuine depth of talent from novice right to the top of the game. HBO, Showtime and Sky rarely talk about them or show them because the fighters often don't speak much English and also hold the wrong passports.

Good points Glyn and Macho - dare I add that most of the current "elite" heavyweights from Europe are also the wrong skin colour. In days gone by we used to search (often in vain, with some noteable exceptions) for a elite level white heavyweight - and there was the myth that a white heavyweight cannot fight.... so with white heavyweights at the top of the tree (except Haye) we are left with the stereotypical view that they cannot be that good.

It might sound rediculous, but chat to your "lay" boxing fans in the pub when a white vs black guy are fighting - they'll use the skin tone bit and will say "the black guy will win, cause he's black". Ask anyone, even boxing historians, what does the heavyweight devision need right now - invariably the answer will be " a new Mike Tyson", "a new Muhammad Ali", "a new Lennox Lewis" - all before someone will say " a new Rocky Marciano".

[Glyn Leach]

Inaccurate to say Wlad killed the division though, he can only beat what's out there and I don't think he's ducked anyone. Not his fault the big Americans now channel into easier but lucrative sports.

Good points. The people who claim the Klitschkos have killed heavyweight boxing are simply looking in the wrong place. The heavyweight division is alive and well in the former Eastern Bloc countries plus West Germany (as was). There is a genuine depth of talent from novice right to the top of the game. HBO, Showtime and Sky rarely talk about them or show them because the fighters often don't speak much English and also hold the wrong passports.

Good points Glyn and Macho - dare I add that most of the current "elite" heavyweights from Europe are also the wrong skin colour. In days gone by we used to search (often in vain, with some noteable exceptions) for a elite level white heavyweight - and there was the myth that a white heavyweight cannot fight.... so with white heavyweights at the top of the tree (except Haye) we are left with the stereotypical view that they cannot be that good.

It might sound rediculous, but chat to your "lay" boxing fans in the pub when a white vs black guy are fighting - they'll use the skin tone bit and will say "the black guy will win, cause he's black". Ask anyone, even boxing historians, what does the heavyweight devision need right now - invariably the answer will be " a new Mike Tyson", "a new Muhammad Ali", "a new Lennox Lewis" - all before someone will say " a new Rocky Marciano".

The BM office still gets the odd phone call from older readers asking specifically about white heavyweights. These callers never strike me as racist-sounding, despite their questions. And they usually wax lyrical about Rocky Marciano and never mention the Klitschkos at all.

[freddydoesdallas]

Inaccurate to say Wlad killed the division though, he can only beat what's out there and I don't think he's ducked anyone. Not his fault the big Americans now channel into easier but lucrative sports.

Good points. The people who claim the Klitschkos have killed heavyweight boxing are simply looking in the wrong place. The heavyweight division is alive and well in the former Eastern Bloc countries plus West Germany (as was). There is a genuine depth of talent from novice right to the top of the game. HBO, Showtime and Sky rarely talk about them or show them because the fighters often don't speak much English and also hold the wrong passports.

Good points Glyn and Macho - dare I add that most of the current "elite" heavyweights from Europe are also the wrong skin colour. In days gone by we used to search (often in vain, with some noteable exceptions) for a elite level white heavyweight - and there was the myth that a white heavyweight cannot fight.... so with white heavyweights at the top of the tree (except Haye) we are left with the stereotypical view that they cannot be that good.

It might sound rediculous, but chat to your "lay" boxing fans in the pub when a white vs black guy are fighting - they'll use the skin tone bit and will say "the black guy will win, cause he's black". Ask anyone, even boxing historians, what does the heavyweight devision need right now - invariably the answer will be " a new Mike Tyson", "a new Muhammad Ali", "a new Lennox Lewis" - all before someone will say " a new Rocky Marciano".

To pick up a bit on the colour thing, did anyone else find it a bit strange that Duke McKenzie mentioned in his Fury - Chisora pick that this country is crying out for top white heavyweight? I couldn't give a monkeys if the guy was green, purple or blue as long as he's good

[stujones]

Good points. The people who claim the Klitschkos have killed heavyweight boxing are simply looking in the wrong place. The heavyweight division is alive and well in the former Eastern Bloc countries plus West Germany (as was). There is a genuine depth of talent from novice right to the top of the game. HBO, Showtime and Sky rarely talk about them or show them because the fighters often don't speak much English and also hold the wrong passports.

Good points Glyn and Macho - dare I add that most of the current "elite" heavyweights from Europe are also the wrong skin colour. In days gone by we used to search (often in vain, with some noteable exceptions) for a elite level white heavyweight - and there was the myth that a white heavyweight cannot fight.... so with white heavyweights at the top of the tree (except Haye) we are left with the stereotypical view that they cannot be that good.

It might sound rediculous, but chat to your "lay" boxing fans in the pub when a white vs black guy are fighting - they'll use the skin tone bit and will say "the black guy will win, cause he's black". Ask anyone, even boxing historians, what does the heavyweight devision need right now - invariably the answer will be " a new Mike Tyson", "a new Muhammad Ali", "a new Lennox Lewis" - all before someone will say " a new Rocky Marciano".

The BM office still gets the odd phone call from older readers asking specifically about white heavyweights. These callers never strike me as racist-sounding, despite their questions. And they usually wax lyrical about Rocky Marciano and never mention the Klitschkos at all.

I'm not insinuating anyone who favours a black boxer and notes his skin tone is racist at all (not intentionally) its just recent(ish) history suggests that blacks are more successful. There are certain biological reasons for this, as well as the socio economic status. Similarly biological reasons as too why Black swimmers are at a disadvatange.

[Glyn Leach]

I'm not insinuating anyone who favours a black boxer and notes his skin tone is racist at all (not intentionally) its just recent(ish) history suggests that blacks are more successful. There are certain biological reasons for this, as well as the socio economic status. Similarly biological reasons as too why Black swimmers are at a disadvatange.

I realise that Stu, was just giving an observation on the kind of caller who asks about white heavyweights, in my experience.

[Final round]

Good points Glyn and Macho - dare I add that most of the current "elite" heavyweights from Europe are also the wrong skin colour. In days gone by we used to search (often in vain, with some noteable exceptions) for a elite level white heavyweight - and there was the myth that a white heavyweight cannot fight.... so with white heavyweights at the top of the tree (except Haye) we are left with the stereotypical view that they cannot be that good.

It might sound rediculous, but chat to your "lay" boxing fans in the pub when a white vs black guy are fighting - they'll use the skin tone bit and will say "the black guy will win, cause he's black". Ask anyone, even boxing historians, what does the heavyweight devision need right now - invariably the answer will be " a new Mike Tyson", "a new Muhammad Ali", "a new Lennox Lewis" - all before someone will say " a new Rocky Marciano".

The BM office still gets the odd phone call from older readers asking specifically about white heavyweights. These callers never strike me as racist-sounding, despite their questions. And they usually wax lyrical about Rocky Marciano and never mention the Klitschkos at all.

I'm not insinuating anyone who favours a black boxer and notes his skin tone is racist at all (not intentionally) its just recent(ish) history suggests that blacks are more successful. There are certain biological reasons for this, as well as the socio economic status. Similarly biological reasons as too why Black swimmers are at a disadvatange.

Exactly what are the biological reasons, fast twitch muscle fibers, bone density. Muscle mass?

[Cyclops]

Good points. The people who claim the Klitschkos have killed heavyweight boxing are simply looking in the wrong place. The heavyweight division is alive and well in the former Eastern Bloc countries plus West Germany (as was). There is a genuine depth of talent from novice right to the top of the game. HBO, Showtime and Sky rarely talk about them or show them because the fighters often don't speak much English and also hold the wrong passports.

Good points Glyn and Macho - dare I add that most of the current "elite" heavyweights from Europe are also the wrong skin colour. In days gone by we used to search (often in vain, with some noteable exceptions) for a elite level white heavyweight - and there was the myth that a white heavyweight cannot fight.... so with white heavyweights at the top of the tree (except Haye) we are left with the stereotypical view that they cannot be that good.

It might sound rediculous, but chat to your "lay" boxing fans in the pub when a white vs black guy are fighting - they'll use the skin tone bit and will say "the black guy will win, cause he's black". Ask anyone, even boxing historians, what does the heavyweight devision need right now - invariably the answer will be " a new Mike Tyson", "a new Muhammad Ali", "a new Lennox Lewis" - all before someone will say " a new Rocky Marciano".

To pick up a bit on the colour thing, did anyone else find it a bit strange that Duke McKenzie mentioned in his Fury - Chisora pick that this country is crying out for top white heavyweight? I couldn't give a monkeys if the guy was green, purple or blue as long as he's good

Disregarding the fact that Fury is now, certainly in the American advert for the fight, hyping himself up as Irish (doesn't he think the Gypsy angle will sell in the US? I thought they all watched Guy Ritchie's crappy films thinking they were documentaries?) Personally part of the reason I really like David Haye is that he's a coffee-skinned mixed race guy with a white mum and a black dad. You can't say he's 'a black' boxer when he's just as much white. He's an English boxer. As a Londoner with a very multi-cultural family and friends I don't think of English people as white. I hate all the old style crap people see as 'English', Brighton pier and Jim Davidson, The Daily Mail and the old Empire. That's nothing to do with me or who I consider 'my people'. England's always been a port and it's been invaded and invaded so I always think it's funny when you hear Scottish people or whoever saying how much they hate the English, when genetically English people are ever evolving and changing. I think that's great. I'd rather have a mixed race champ than a 'pure' black or white champ. And I'm a white boy, by the way.

[stujones]

The BM office still gets the odd phone call from older readers asking specifically about white heavyweights. These callers never strike me as racist-sounding, despite their questions. And they usually wax lyrical about Rocky Marciano and never mention the Klitschkos at all.

I'm not insinuating anyone who favours a black boxer and notes his skin tone is racist at all (not intentionally) its just recent(ish) history suggests that blacks are more successful. There are certain biological reasons for this, as well as the socio economic status. Similarly biological reasons as too why Black swimmers are at a disadvatange.

Exactly what are the biological reasons, fast twitch muscle fibers, bone density. Muscle mass?

Yes, also on average smaller head size but thicker skulls. I would also imagine, although I don't know there have been studies to support why black boxers are less prone to bleeding.

Having a high bone density isn't going to help in the pool when you talking people needing every miniscule of a second advantage.

[Chambers2]

Pre-Klitschkos the formula Big + White = Can't Fight used to be applied to white heavies. It was pretty spot on in the main. This isn't racism. It is history. I like the Caucasian peoples.

Hey how dare you say that about.....erm......whatshisface...... that shit hot BIG white geeza.............erm......OK you can say that

[keithmoonhangover]

I'm not insinuating anyone who favours a black boxer and notes his skin tone is racist at all (not intentionally) its just recent(ish) history suggests that blacks are more successful. There are certain biological reasons for this, as well as the socio economic status. Similarly biological reasons as too why Black swimmers are at a disadvatange.

I realise that Stu, was just giving an observation on the kind of caller who asks about white heavyweights, in my experience.

People used to say that Frank Bruno was the 'whitest black man in Britain'.

[IRLangmaid25]

Having seen the weigh in this afternoon I think Bernd Boente may have to take back his comments about us British fight fans not liking David Haye, the fans out there have given him a wonderful recieption going up to the scales. I am sure there are the others here in the UK find Haye brash, arrogant and think his antics are out of order etc. But there those who like him because he has the speed, power ,aggression and charisma that would spice up the a very average (at best) heavyweight division which has been dominated for the last 5-6 years by the Brothers K, because he is Box Office material. Whether he remains true to his word that he shall retire on his 31st birthday remains to be seen after fighting Wladimir K.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm not insinuating anyone who favours a black boxer and notes his skin tone is racist at all (not intentionally) its just recent(ish) history suggests that blacks are more successful. There are certain biological reasons for this, as well as the socio economic status. Similarly biological reasons as too why Black swimmers are at a disadvatange.

Exactly what are the biological reasons, fast twitch muscle fibers, bone density. Muscle mass?

Yes, also on average smaller head size but thicker skulls. I would also imagine, although I don't know there have been studies to support why black boxers are less prone to bleeding.

Having a high bone density isn't going to help in the pool when you talking people needing every miniscule of a second advantage.

Dark skinned Afro caribbean people literally have thicker skins. That's why they don't

The difference in bone density is quite striking. Black women have higher bone density than Caucasian men, by the time they reach their 30's.

These biological factors are though I think of secondary importance compared to all the other factors that go into making a good fighter.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Good points Glyn and Macho - dare I add that most of the current "elite" heavyweights from Europe are also the wrong skin colour. In days gone by we used to search (often in vain, with some noteable exceptions) for a elite level white heavyweight - and there was the myth that a white heavyweight cannot fight.... so with white heavyweights at the top of the tree (except Haye) we are left with the stereotypical view that they cannot be that good.

It might sound rediculous, but chat to your "lay" boxing fans in the pub when a white vs black guy are fighting - they'll use the skin tone bit and will say "the black guy will win, cause he's black". Ask anyone, even boxing historians, what does the heavyweight devision need right now - invariably the answer will be " a new Mike Tyson", "a new Muhammad Ali", "a new Lennox Lewis" - all before someone will say " a new Rocky Marciano".

To pick up a bit on the colour thing, did anyone else find it a bit strange that Duke McKenzie mentioned in his Fury - Chisora pick that this country is crying out for top white heavyweight? I couldn't give a monkeys if the guy was green, purple or blue as long as he's good

Disregarding the fact that Fury is now, certainly in the American advert for the fight, hyping himself up as Irish (doesn't he think the Gypsy angle will sell in the US? I thought they all watched Guy Ritchie's crappy films thinking they were documentaries?) Personally part of the reason I really like David Haye is that he's a coffee-skinned mixed race guy with a white mum and a black dad. You can't say he's 'a black' boxer when he's just as much white. He's an English boxer. As a Londoner with a very multi-cultural family and friends I don't think of English people as white. I hate all the old style crap people see as 'English', Brighton pier and Jim Davidson, The Daily Mail and the old Empire. That's nothing to do with me or who I consider 'my people'. England's always been a port and it's been invaded and invaded so I always think it's funny when you hear Scottish people or whoever saying how much they hate the English, when genetically English people are ever evolving and changing. I think that's great. I'd rather have a mixed race champ than a 'pure' black or white champ. And I'm a white boy, by the way.

Hear Hear! I'm with you all then way on that one.

[mkirkhope]

Having seen the weigh in this afternoon I think Bernd Boente may have to take back his comments about us British fight fans not liking David Haye, the fans out there have given him a wonderful recieption going up to the scales. I am sure there are the others here in the UK find Haye brash, arrogant and think his antics are out of order etc. But there those who like him because he has the speed, power ,aggression and charisma that would spice up the a very average (at best) heavyweight division which has been dominated for the last 5-6 years by the Brothers K, because he is Box Office material. Whether he remains true to his word that he shall retire on his 31st birthday remains to be seen after fighting Wladimir K.

Where was this speed, power and aggression against Valuev though? To me, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Haye makes the heavyweight division more interesting if he wins. In fact if he wins tonight like he did against Valuev he might end up making the division the most boring it has ever been (as his performance vs Valuev was even more boring than anything Wlad has dished out in my opinion). As for his charisma, I've actually found some of the stuff Vlad has said to be more genuinely funny and engaging. I don't find Haye shouting "check out his Borat voice" to be charismatic. Effective maybe, but not charismatic. I'm not offended by Haye's antics - I just find him a bit boring and tiresome. I've heard him say the same thing a million times - whereas at least Wlad seems to come with new opinions sometimes. I also am still not convinced about the hype on this outside the UK. If Wlad wins quite easily tomorrow, it will be go down in history as another 'routine defence'. Much like Hatton was another straightforward nights work for Mayweather or Pacman (despite half the UK - although maybe not most of the people on here - seemingly thinking Hatton could win those ones).

If Haye blows Wlad away then does the same to his brother then yea people would get back interested in the division again (if Haye doesn't retire). I just can't see that happening - but on the other hand I could well be completely wrong!

You are right though - watching the weigh in it was very obvious who the British fans over there are behind and its not Wlad despite what Boente says.

[Final round]

Exactly what are the biological reasons, fast twitch muscle fibers, bone density. Muscle mass?

Yes, also on average smaller head size but thicker skulls. I would also imagine, although I don't know there have been studies to support why black boxers are less prone to bleeding.

Having a high bone density isn't going to help in the pool when you talking people needing every miniscule of a second advantage.

Dark skinned Afro caribbean people literally have thicker skins. That's why they don't

The difference in bone density is quite striking. Black women have higher bone density than Caucasian men, by the time they reach their 30's.

These biological factors are though I think of secondary importance compared to all the other factors that go into making a good fighter.

Interesting stuff Stu and James and although they are certainly secondary factors in successful fighters they are certainly an advantage as we know how a propensity to cut can affect a career and talking off thicker skulls been of benefit Marvin is a great example

[jtourettes]

Having seen the weigh in this afternoon I think Bernd Boente may have to take back his comments about us British fight fans not liking David Haye, the fans out there have given him a wonderful recieption going up to the scales. I am sure there are the others here in the UK find Haye brash, arrogant and think his antics are out of order etc. But there those who like him because he has the speed, power ,aggression and charisma that would spice up the a very average (at best) heavyweight division which has been dominated for the last 5-6 years by the Brothers K, because he is Box Office material. Whether he remains true to his word that he shall retire on his 31st birthday remains to be seen after fighting Wladimir K.

Where was this speed, power and aggression against Valuev though? To me, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Haye makes the heavyweight division more interesting if he wins. In fact if he wins tonight like he did against Valuev he might end up making the division the most boring it has ever been (as his performance vs Valuev was even more boring than anything Wlad has dished out in my opinion). As for his charisma, I've actually found some of the stuff Vlad has said to be more genuinely funny and engaging. I don't find Haye shouting "check out his Borat voice" to be charismatic. Effective maybe, but not charismatic. I'm not offended by Haye's antics - I just find him a bit boring and tiresome. I've heard him say the same thing a million times - whereas at least Wlad seems to come with new opinions sometimes. I also am still not convinced about the hype on this outside the UK. If Wlad wins quite easily tomorrow, it will be go down in history as another 'routine defence'. Much like Hatton was another straightforward nights work for Mayweather or Pacman (despite half the UK - although maybe not most of the people on here - seemingly thinking Hatton could win those ones).

If Haye blows Wlad away then does the same to his brother then yea people would get back interested in the division again (if Haye doesn't retire). I just can't see that happening - but on the other hand I could well be completely wrong!

You are right though - watching the weigh in it was very obvious who the British fans over there are behind and its not Wlad despite what Boente says.

This fight is actually producing a fair amount of buzz in the US according to a few yanks I've spoken to. They said they've had a lot of casual fans asking about it and planning fight bbqs as it's aired live during the day.

I know that's anecdotal but it could be a good sign. If Haye wins in style he could really explode in the US albeit far too late in his career if the retirement talk isn't bs.

[Finn]

The BM office still gets the odd phone call from older readers asking specifically about white heavyweights. These callers never strike me as racist-sounding, despite their questions. And they usually wax lyrical about Rocky Marciano and never mention the Klitschkos at all.

I'm not insinuating anyone who favours a black boxer and notes his skin tone is racist at all (not intentionally) its just recent(ish) history suggests that blacks are more successful. There are certain biological reasons for this, as well as the socio economic status. Similarly biological reasons as too why Black swimmers are at a disadvatange.

Exactly what are the biological reasons, fast twitch muscle fibers, bone density. Muscle mass?

At the heavier weights black guys definatley have ability to produce more muscle mass. Obviously im talking in general like if we compared the 100 top black athletes to 100 top white athletes. I said something similar about asians generate more power at lower weights and people questioned it but when you look at the top fighters in the lower division and see how many are asian.

People have to be realistic there are physical differences between races when you look at top level sports - white people swim better, black people sprint better.

And as chris rock says in one of his shows - the reason the USA is so good at sports is because they bread the slaves to be physically stronger to be better workers, now generations later theres alot of big black americans and great sportsmen. And he was making a political point not a joke lol.

I think Britain is one of the most diverse countries so i doubt it matters to most here what colour our champions our. But in some other countries we dont know what they are thinking.

[Finn]

I bet boente feels like a right bell end after the weigh in.

[Finn]

The weigh in for anyone who hasnt seen it - nce to see the british in fine form. Professional fans!!!

http://youtu.be/mGS40vgmtbo

[IRLangmaid25]

Having seen the weigh in this afternoon I think Bernd Boente may have to take back his comments about us British fight fans not liking David Haye, the fans out there have given him a wonderful recieption going up to the scales. I am sure there are the others here in the UK find Haye brash, arrogant and think his antics are out of order etc. But there those who like him because he has the speed, power ,aggression and charisma that would spice up the a very average (at best) heavyweight division which has been dominated for the last 5-6 years by the Brothers K, because he is Box Office material. Whether he remains true to his word that he shall retire on his 31st birthday remains to be seen after fighting Wladimir K.

Where was this speed, power and aggression against Valuev though? To me, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Haye makes the heavyweight division more interesting if he wins. In fact if he wins tonight like he did against Valuev he might end up making the division the most boring it has ever been (as his performance vs Valuev was even more boring than anything Wlad has dished out in my opinion). As for his charisma, I've actually found some of the stuff Vlad has said to be more genuinely funny and engaging. I don't find Haye shouting "check out his Borat voice" to be charismatic. Effective maybe, but not charismatic. I'm not offended by Haye's antics - I just find him a bit boring and tiresome. I've heard him say the same thing a million times - whereas at least Wlad seems to come with new opinions sometimes. I also am still not convinced about the hype on this outside the UK. If Wlad wins quite easily tomorrow, it will be go down in history as another 'routine defence'. Much like Hatton was another straightforward nights work for Mayweather or Pacman (despite half the UK - although maybe not most of the people on here - seemingly thinking Hatton could win those ones).

If Haye blows Wlad away then does the same to his brother then yea people would get back interested in the division again (if Haye doesn't retire). I just can't see that happening - but on the other hand I could well be completely wrong!

You are right though - watching the weigh in it was very obvious who the British fans over there are behind and its not Wlad despite what Boente says.

While it is a title defence for Wladimir K fighting David Haye which I accept, I can see your argument but I do not buy into the argument that it will be seen as a routine defence for Wladimir K as your describe it shoudl he win. It is a unifaction title match where both Haye and Wladimir K have an awful lot to lose and it not just their titles but their legacy as boxers in the blue riband divison of this sport. . If Haye loses he will just been as a blown up Cruiserweight who chanced his arm in the Heavyweight division for some bigger pay cheques. But if it is Wladimir K who loses tomorrow night, then his legacy is completely destroyed because at 35 I do not think he has the time to rebuild his career that he had after the defeats to Lamon Brewster and Corrie Sanders.

[mkirkhope]

Having seen the weigh in this afternoon I think Bernd Boente may have to take back his comments about us British fight fans not liking David Haye, the fans out there have given him a wonderful recieption going up to the scales. I am sure there are the others here in the UK find Haye brash, arrogant and think his antics are out of order etc. But there those who like him because he has the speed, power ,aggression and charisma that would spice up the a very average (at best) heavyweight division which has been dominated for the last 5-6 years by the Brothers K, because he is Box Office material. Whether he remains true to his word that he shall retire on his 31st birthday remains to be seen after fighting Wladimir K.

Where was this speed, power and aggression against Valuev though? To me, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Haye makes the heavyweight division more interesting if he wins. In fact if he wins tonight like he did against Valuev he might end up making the division the most boring it has ever been (as his performance vs Valuev was even more boring than anything Wlad has dished out in my opinion). As for his charisma, I've actually found some of the stuff Vlad has said to be more genuinely funny and engaging. I don't find Haye shouting "check out his Borat voice" to be charismatic. Effective maybe, but not charismatic. I'm not offended by Haye's antics - I just find him a bit boring and tiresome. I've heard him say the same thing a million times - whereas at least Wlad seems to come with new opinions sometimes. I also am still not convinced about the hype on this outside the UK. If Wlad wins quite easily tomorrow, it will be go down in history as another 'routine defence'. Much like Hatton was another straightforward nights work for Mayweather or Pacman (despite half the UK - although maybe not most of the people on here - seemingly thinking Hatton could win those ones).

If Haye blows Wlad away then does the same to his brother then yea people would get back interested in the division again (if Haye doesn't retire). I just can't see that happening - but on the other hand I could well be completely wrong!

You are right though - watching the weigh in it was very obvious who the British fans over there are behind and its not Wlad despite what Boente says.

While it is a title defence for Wladimir K fighting David Haye which I accept, I can see your argument but I do not buy into the argument that it will be seen as a routine defence for Wladimir K as your describe it shoudl he win. It is a unifaction title match where both Haye and Wladimir K have an awful lot to lose and it not just their titles but their legacy as boxers in the blue riband divison of this sport. . If Haye loses he will just been as a blown up Cruiserweight who chanced his arm in the Heavyweight division for some bigger pay cheques. But if it is Wladimir K who loses tomorrow night, then his legacy is completely destroyed because at 35 I do not think he has the time to rebuild his career that he had after the defeats to Lamon Brewster and Corrie Sanders.

I did say if Wlad wins easily then in the history books it will go down as one of his many routine defences (i.e. if Haye is shown up to be not very good then it will be seen in the future as what was a standard nights work for Wlad). I think we're kind of agreeing because you're saying Haye would just be remembered in that case as a 'blown up cruiser who chanced his arm'.

I totally agree with you that if Wlad loses or is badly exposed then it affects his legacy. I just don't buy the argument that Haye has to win because he is so explosive and will make the division exciting. If he wins in the manner he beat Valuev has he really automatically 'improved' the division's quality from a viewing perspective? If he blows Wlad away then yes he has. If he runs and hides again for 12 rounds then no he hasn't. Personally during the Valuev fight I was thinking 'this is putting me to sleep' and not 'this guy has made the division so exciting'.

I can understand people saying 'Haye destroying Wlad would be good for the division' but not 'any kind of Haye win automatically makes the division so much more fun and exciting'. Especially if Haye retires straight away after a Valuev-type performance.

[binipop]

I was under the impression Haye fought the way he did against Valuev because he broke his hand in the 2nd round. Had this not happened i think Haye could well have stopped him.