In The Cold Light Of Day......

[keithmoonhangover]

Last night I was disapointed and angry, but now I've had some sleep and thought about it some more, I feel a bit differently,

Haye proved that there is nothing at all wrong with his chin.

Wladimir fought a great fight and won fair and square.

I didnt like Haye complaining to the referee.

With regards to the toe. I've broke the little toe on my left foot twice and I can vouch for what a problem it would cause David.

Haye showed a lot of guts by not calling off the fight.

I was very suprised that no one was rocked by any of the punches.

Haye should fight Arreola in Vegas next.

[Final round]

Imagine if he'd called it off, he would have been ripped to bits. instead he's getting ripped for losing on points.

[ThereByTheGrace]

Why didnt he mention it before the fight? There would have been no real qualms from anyone.

Another Harrison - deluded and a total con man. I just wish he got knocked out.

Well done Wlad- Another dominant performance from the Champ - he can only beat whos in front of him and they arent any good its not his fault.

[keithmoonhangover]

Imagine if he'd called it off, he would have been ripped to bits. instead he's getting ripped for losing on points.

I think he did his best. I said from the start that he wouldn't throw enough punches to win on points. I said after the first round that he didn't look right.

When I had a broken toe, it looked a lot like Haye's and I can't tell you how much effected my balance.

[Final round]

Why didnt he mention it before the fight? There would have been no real qualms from anyone.

Another Harrison - deluded and a total con man. I just wish he got knocked out.

Well done Wlad- Another dominant performance from the Champ - he can only beat whos in front of him and they arent any good its not his fault.

wat drivel Harrison wouldn't have had any success against Wlad. btw love the way all his achievements in the sport you supposedly follow are discounted just because you can't stand him.

[liamlion]

Why didnt he mention it before the fight? There would have been no real qualms from anyone.

Another Harrison - deluded and a total con man. I just wish he got knocked out.

Well done Wlad- Another dominant performance from the Champ - he can only beat whos in front of him and they arent any good its not his fault.

Get a grip man, you could not be more innacurate.

[keithmoonhangover]

Why didnt he mention it before the fight? There would have been no real qualms from anyone.

Another Harrison - deluded and a total con man. I just wish he got knocked out.

Well done Wlad- Another dominant performance from the Champ - he can only beat whos in front of him and they arent any good its not his fault.

He didn't mention it because he didn't want to, his decision. If he had then it would have given Wlad an even bigger advantage.

[Newport Daz]

I agree with what you're saying apart from the toe thing, having never broken one I don't know how painful it is.

Anyway, I thought Haye did a reasonable job in there and agree he showed he can take a punch from the biggest, hardest punching heavy out there. I actually think Wlad was exposed in this fight. Exposed for being a really good fighter, way better than he was being given credit for.

I don't think Haye should retire on that note. He's going to take a lot of heat over the next few weeks and personally I think his pride is going to be hurt after all the talking he did beforehand. An Arreola fight would be a good one as I think he would win with relative ease and would look good doing so. His problem is that outside of Wlad and Vitali, there are no real marquee fights for him.
Maybe there can be a tournament featuring the Wlad victims see who comes out best and can fight for Vitali's belt as he's pretty much run out of opponents now and will surely be retiring soon.

[Final round]

Imagine if he'd called it off, he would have been ripped to bits. instead he's getting ripped for losing on points.

I think he did his best. I said from the start that he wouldn't throw enough punches to win on points. I said after the first round that he didn't look right.

When I had a broken toe, it looked a lot like Haye's and I can't tell you how much effected my balance.

Yeah everyone knew beforehand no way does he win on points

[Deserter]

Imagine if he'd called it off, he would have been ripped to bits. instead he's getting ripped for losing on points.

I think he did his best. I said from the start that he wouldn't throw enough punches to win on points. I said after the first round that he didn't look right.

When I had a broken toe, it looked a lot like Haye's and I can't tell you how much effected my balance.

I couldn't see Haye's movement being unduly affected and also worth noting Rhino's point on the other thread that based on his medical experience an injection would have been more than sufficient to overcome an issue in the short-term.

[Final round]

Imagine if he'd called it off, he would have been ripped to bits. instead he's getting ripped for losing on points.

I think he did his best. I said from the start that he wouldn't throw enough punches to win on points. I said after the first round that he didn't look right.

When I had a broken toe, it looked a lot like Haye's and I can't tell you how much effected my balance.

I couldn't see Haye's movement being unduly affected and also worth noting Rhino's point on the other thread that based on his medical experience an injection would have been more than sufficient to overcome an issue in the short-term.

you've obviously not broken a toe then because it does affect movement broken a couple myself in the past and the last thing you do is start pushing off on it.

Not sure about rhino's experience in sports injurys but i wonder if any athlete would still compete in track and field with a broken toe.

[keithmoonhangover]

quote="Deserter"]

Imagine if he'd called it off, he would have been ripped to bits. instead he's getting ripped for losing on points.

I think he did his best. I said from the start that he wouldn't throw enough punches to win on points. I said after the first round that he didn't look right.

When I had a broken toe, it looked a lot like Haye's and I can't tell you how much effected my balance.

I couldn't see Haye's movement being unduly affected and also worth noting Rhino's point on the other thread that based on his medical experience an injection would have been more than sufficient to overcome an issue in the short-term.[/quote]

I'm not having a go at Rhino, but you don't really know how it effects you til it happens to you. Even full of pain killers, my balance was still off and I was sparring atn the time, there is NO WAY that I could have boxed anywhere near my best. I'm not defending Haye, I'm just talking from experience.

[dondada]

'In the cold light of day' I feel far worse than I did last night.

I actually feel like I've been mugged and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who've travelled (or even bought the PPV) who feel exactly like that.

Thousands have made financial and personal sacrifices and endured appalling conditions and have been short changed.

Unfortunately for me I don't share the perks of my journalist colleagues and, other than the ticket, I've funded the lot myself - so I'm speaking like any other fan for the main part. I feel like a f**king idiot and selfish for not spending the £500+ on something worthwhile, like my family. It'll be a while before I go anywhere again. (I'll probably be planning the next one tomorrow )

I know Team Haye, including David himself, read this forum so I don't say this lightly. But to chat about decapitations and ambulances and then to turn in a supine performance like that and blame it on an injured toe is ludicrous and insulting.

And I don't buy last night's party line that Wlad was simply too big, too good, etc. Haye won the third for me and that proved had he had a real go (as he tried again in the last, far too late) that he could have done much better and maybe even won.

He didn't and he let us all down. I picked Wlad late but not for one minute did I ever think David Haye would be a man to lose by not having a proper crack.

F**king gutted.

[keithmoonhangover]

'In the cold light of day' I feel far worse than I did last night.

I actually feel like I've been mugged and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who've travelled (or even bought the PPV) who feel exactly like that.

Thousands have made financial and personal sacrifices and endured appalling conditions and have been short changed.

Unfortunately for me I don't share the perks of my journalist colleagues and, other than the ticket, I've funded the lot myself - so I'm speaking like any other fan for the main part. I feel like a f**king idiot and selfish for not spending the £500+ on something worthwhile, like my family. It'll be a while before I go anywhere again. (I'll probably be planning the next one tomorrow )

I know Team Haye, including David himself, read this forum so I don't say this lightly. But to chat about decapitations and ambulances and then to turn in a supine performance like that and blame it on an injured toe is ludicrous and insulting.

And I don't buy last night's party line that Wlad was simply too big, too good, etc. Haye won the third for me and that proved had he had a real go (as he tried again in the last, far too late) that he could have done much better and maybe even won.

He didn't and he let us all down. I picked Wlad late but not for one minute did I ever think David Haye would be a man to lose by not having a proper crack.

F**king gutted.

I felt like that last night mate. It was very tough to take. I think Haye needs to go and work with Freddie Roach or Manny Stewart. Even if his toe was goosed, the strategy relied to knocking him out, how about winning some rounds? It's time to get rid of Booth and get a better trainer in.

[MightyWarrior]

To be honest, I couldn't get excited about the fight as I should have been, because since his move to heavy, David Haye has just been a major big fat disapointment.

All the talk about defining a legacy, smashing this, taking on the best etc...was just a major BUST.

When he first moved up, the talk was about him taking on a "big name"...who'd be a "big surprise"....and who did we get ? Monte Barrett.

Then it's straight onto the Klitchko brothers, apparently...except no, it's Valuev, where he turns in one of the most boring non event HW fights ever seen.

And instead of "cleaning up the division", he takes on ancient John Ruiz, and Audley bloody Harrison, god help us.

As for last night......................another phoney war ( if it wasn't for that damn toe eh?! )

[Datsue]

'In the cold light of day' I feel far worse than I did last night.

I actually feel like I've been mugged and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who've travelled (or even bought the PPV) who feel exactly like that.

Thousands have made financial and personal sacrifices and endured appalling conditions and have been short changed.

Unfortunately for me I don't share the perks of my journalist colleagues and, other than the ticket, I've funded the lot myself - so I'm speaking like any other fan for the main part. I feel like a f**king idiot and selfish for not spending the £500+ on something worthwhile, like my family. It'll be a while before I go anywhere again. (I'll probably be planning the next one tomorrow )

I know Team Haye, including David himself, read this forum so I don't say this lightly. But to chat about decapitations and ambulances and then to turn in a supine performance like that and blame it on an injured toe is ludicrous and insulting.

And I don't buy last night's party line that Wlad was simply too big, too good, etc. Haye won the third for me and that proved had he had a real go (as he tried again in the last, far too late) that he could have done much better and maybe even won.

He didn't and he let us all down. I picked Wlad late but not for one minute did I ever think David Haye would be a man to lose by not having a proper crack.

F**king gutted.

This, this & double this.

The thing which butchered it all for me was that I thought he was doing quite well when he started in on the big dude, but there was nothing to follow it up once Klit didn't collapse completely, no plan of how to get to point Z from point B, if you'll excuse the early morning bleariness, no change up of tactics, no willingness to risk himself etc etc etc. I didn't think Wlad looked the dominator that all his supporters made him out to be in the build up, either: he was lucky Haye didn't fight with more fire.

But yeah: ultra-gutted by Dave. I went to France to see him, went to Nuremberg to see him, but I'm fuckin' glad I stayed in a tent with a teenaged lovely on the shores of a loch & watched a Russian-language stream on the night of his Big Moment, or I'd've felt like I wasted a night.

Which, funnily enough, was exactly what Dave did. Waste a night. Not the night in the tent, obviously.


PS: What also got me were Haye's technical limitations. You have to rely on something to close the (metaphorical?) gap when you're fighting someone that big, & Haye's technique just wasn't up to the job. & on the night, he couldn't (or wouldn't) put himself out there to try to find another way to close that gap. Ergo, he lost, in a dreary & embarrassing manner.

Can I go back to watching Mexican & Thai bantamweights now, please? Even when they fight like last night, they throw five hundred punches a round...

[Deserter]

quote="Deserter"]

Imagine if he'd called it off, he would have been ripped to bits. instead he's getting ripped for losing on points.

I think he did his best. I said from the start that he wouldn't throw enough punches to win on points. I said after the first round that he didn't look right.

When I had a broken toe, it looked a lot like Haye's and I can't tell you how much effected my balance.

I couldn't see Haye's movement being unduly affected and also worth noting Rhino's point on the other thread that based on his medical experience an injection would have been more than sufficient to overcome an issue in the short-term.

I'm not having a go at Rhino, but you don't really know how it effects you til it happens to you. Even full of pain killers, my balance was still off and I was sparring atn the time, there is NO WAY that I could have boxed anywhere near my best. I'm not defending Haye, I'm just talking from experience.

Fair enough

[johnswan1]

Haye looked absolutely clueless in there last night. Winging his punches and hardly throwing. Wlad exposed him completely for what he is and in the end it was he who showed what is wrong with boxing - fighters turning up for paydays and just trying to survive. He's as bad as Mosley as far as I'm concerned.

[RJP]

Some major BS being spouted here by people who are obviously disappointed.

Two points:

1) I've broken my toe and it bloody killed. I couldn't walk on it for three days as whenever I put any weight on it as if I did I got agonising pain shooting halfway up my leg.
I also couldn't get a shoe on because of the pain/swelling.

2) all this talk of not trying is nonsense and, apart from anything else, totally overlooks the quality and size advantage of the opponent. My personal opinion was that David's best (perhaps only) chance was to get straight in and mug Wlad early - but that would've been a definite 'shit or bust' approach. Once that didn't materialise, it seemed to me that the tactic was to frustrate Wlad by making him miss and try to draw him onto counters - that tactic didn't work simply because Wlad is a big man with good feet, poise and a deadly accurate jab.

Haye looked clumsy because he was having to over-reach to try and land shots and, hence, even when he did land they never really had much leverage/weight behind them. The fact that he was always punching upwards didn't help much either.

Haye was never gonna be able to stand toe to toe with Wlad because of Wlad's size and reach advantages and the fact that, with his laser accurate left jab and clubbing overhand right, he'd have been picked off quickly and easily.

Haye couldn't have fought for sustained periods on the inside because of Wlad's obvious physical superiority; he'd have been mauled and had his strength sapped quickly.

Haye may well have envisaged being able to make Wlad miss (which he succeeded in doing) and moving quickly in and out to land his shots. However, until he got into the ring I don't think he fully appreciated the effectiveness and accuracy of THAT jab.

I think in the cold light of day, Haye did the best that he could under the circumstances. He simply didn't have the tools to negate Klit's physical advantages and the issues with his balance, reach and the toe prevented him from landing any potentially game changing shots.

[Final round]

'In the cold light of day' I feel far worse than I did last night.

I actually feel like I've been mugged and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who've travelled (or even bought the PPV) who feel exactly like that.

Thousands have made financial and personal sacrifices and endured appalling conditions and have been short changed.

Unfortunately for me I don't share the perks of my journalist colleagues and, other than the ticket, I've funded the lot myself - so I'm speaking like any other fan for the main part. I feel like a f**king idiot and selfish for not spending the £500+ on something worthwhile, like my family. It'll be a while before I go anywhere again. (I'll probably be planning the next one tomorrow )

I know Team Haye, including David himself, read this forum so I don't say this lightly. But to chat about decapitations and ambulances and then to turn in a supine performance like that and blame it on an injured toe is ludicrous and insulting.

And I don't buy last night's party line that Wlad was simply too big, too good, etc. Haye won the third for me and that proved had he had a real go (as he tried again in the last, far too late) that he could have done much better and maybe even won.

He didn't and he let us all down. I picked Wlad late but not for one minute did I ever think David Haye would be a man to lose by not having a proper crack.

F**king gutted.

I understand that your gutted after forking out but that was always a massive risk that Haye was going to be outboxed and I personally believe he did try with not much success.

[JamesH]

And I don't buy last night's party line that Wlad was simply too big, too good, etc. Haye won the third for me and that proved had he had a real go (as he tried again in the last, far too late) that he could have done much better and maybe even won.

Excellent point Ian. Feel for those who went but hopefully you had a good night after...

I kept trying to second guess a masterplan Booth had created but as the fight wore on the pattern remained consistent. Whatever is said about the toe, when Haye let his hands go, he caused Wlad concern. He just didn't do it anywhere near enough.

[nh1]

Changing tack somewhat...

I felt the most telling comments post-fight last night were from Adam Booth, who said *David is a cruiserweight*.

It would be a great shame were David to retire on such a low, and so why not go back down to cruiserweight, a weight where (i) he wouldn't be fighting men much bigger and taller than him; and (ii) by common consent, he fought very differently, much more entertainingly, and dominated in a way he will always struggle to do at the higher weight?

At cruiserweight it would be great to see him face Huck...Maybe Adamek could be tempted to move down...? There may not be a long list of attractive opponents, but then again, David constantly tells us he's retiring soon.

Although at cruiserweight I don't think they'd be queuing up to face him...

[Deserter]

Changing tack somewhat...

I felt the most telling comments post-fight last night were from Adam Booth, who said *David is a cruiserweight*.

It would be a great shame were David to retire on such a low, and so why not go back down to cruiserweight, a weight where (i) he wouldn't be fighting men much bigger and taller than him; and (ii) by common consent, he fought very differently, much more entertainingly, and dominated in a way he will always struggle to do at the higher weight?

At cruiserweight it would be great to see him face Huck...Maybe Adamek could be tempted to move down...? There may not be a long list of attractive opponents, but then again, David constantly tells us he's retiring soon.

Although at cruiserweight I don't think they'd be queuing up to face him...

It's a good point, but I just think he's in that awkward position now of being unable to make cruiser and being too small at heavy. Plus we all know where the real pay-days are...

[nh1]

Changing tack somewhat...

I felt the most telling comments post-fight last night were from Adam Booth, who said *David is a cruiserweight*.

It would be a great shame were David to retire on such a low, and so why not go back down to cruiserweight, a weight where (i) he wouldn't be fighting men much bigger and taller than him; and (ii) by common consent, he fought very differently, much more entertainingly, and dominated in a way he will always struggle to do at the higher weight?

At cruiserweight it would be great to see him face Huck...Maybe Adamek could be tempted to move down...? There may not be a long list of attractive opponents, but then again, David constantly tells us he's retiring soon.

Although at cruiserweight I don't think they'd be queuing up to face him...

It's a good point, but I just think he's in that awkward position now of being unable to make cruiser and being too small at heavy. Plus we all know where the real pay-days are...

Sure, the real pay days are at heavy. But (i) he's so rich he shouldn't care *because securing a legacy is more important than raking in more cash than he or his family will ever need*; and (ii) if he fought an American opponent like Cunningham he could start to build his profile in the States, which would lead to bigger revenues.

[mkirkhope]

Some major BS being spouted here by people who are obviously disappointed.

Two points:

1) I've broken my toe and it bloody killed. I couldn't walk on it for three days as whenever I put any weight on it as if I did I got agonising pain shooting halfway up my leg.
I also couldn't get a shoe on because of the pain/swelling.

2) all this talk of not trying is nonsense and, apart from anything else, totally overlooks the quality and size advantage of the opponent. My personal opinion was that David's best (perhaps only) chance was to get straight in and mug Wlad early - but that would've been a definite 'shit or bust' approach. Once that didn't materialise, it seemed to me that the tactic was to frustrate Wlad by making him miss and try to draw him onto counters - that tactic didn't work simply because Wlad is a big man with good feet, poise and a deadly accurate jab.

Haye looked clumsy because he was having to over-reach to try and land shots and, hence, even when he did land they never really had much leverage/weight behind them. The fact that he was always punching upwards didn't help much either.

Haye was never gonna be able to stand toe to toe with Wlad because of Wlad's size and reach advantages and the fact that, with his laser accurate left jab and clubbing overhand right, he'd have been picked off quickly and easily.

Haye couldn't have fought for sustained periods on the inside because of Wlad's obvious physical superiority; he'd have been mauled and had his strength sapped quickly.

Haye may well have envisaged being able to make Wlad miss (which he succeeded in doing) and moving quickly in and out to land his shots. However, until he got into the ring I don't think he fully appreciated the effectiveness and accuracy of THAT jab.

I think in the cold light of day, Haye did the best that he could under the circumstances. He simply didn't have the tools to negate Klit's physical advantages and the issues with his balance, reach and the toe prevented him from landing any potentially game changing shots.

I don't agree with all this stuff about Wlad winning simply because he's bigger. I think that's a simplistic view and one that takes away from what Wlad brought to the table last night. Size played a part, but for me the reason Wlad won was that he is a much better boxer and has much more sound technique. Several people I really respect in the sport thought Haye had a chance (I didn't) and they wouldn't have thought that if the size barrier was an insurmountable obstacle.

I think that Klitschko's speed, foot movement and ring intelligence are underrated and people often just resort to the 'he's too big and leans on you' party line. I don't think the weight advantage really made a difference in the fight at all. Haye was very rarely close enough for Wlad to lean on him and most of the times Haye hit the deck it was through embarrassing diving and not because he'd been leant on by a much heavier man.