David Haye...........The conclusions

[mikewl]

thank god for that ,thought i was on some other planet

Great post.

Haye didn't get dominated in that fight, he simply got outworked and went 12 rds with a man 4 inches taller and 30 lbs heavier and took his best shots and landed a few good ones himself. Yes he could have done a few things better and was dissapointing but i still think he should be credited for giving Wlad the best fight he's had since the Sam Peter one around 6 years ago.

He got dominated, only winning 3 rounds max, and we should be able to take off the union jack-tinted spectacles and admit that. It was a very straightforward nights work for Wlad, and if he wasn't miles ahead on the cards he probably would have taken Haye out. I don't see how throwing almost no punches gave Wlad his hardest fight in 6 years.

And the height is an excuse. 3 inches makes a difference but its not impossible. What was Tyson? 5 inches shorter than Haye? I am 6'5" and trust me it would take a big effort for me to push someone of Haye's size onto the floor - no way should Haye have been flying onto the floor as soon as Wlad laid a hand on him.

They said they had a plan for Wlads hugging, the plan was just fall to the floor, great plan...

[Grilling Machine]

Funny how those tipping Wlad, all tipped to win by KO, some by early KO. So spare us the 'I told you....' stuff.

You picked a winner out of 2 guys, hopelessly incorrect about how it was going to be done.

In the early rounds I felt Haye had the greater chance of landing a big shot - he was sharp and lively, but I also felt that if Klitschko landed big it could end the fight. But Klitschko didn't need to commit because he wasn't made to. It was for Haye - the challenger - to do the running. Understandably, he thought better of it. Neither was embarrassed in my eyes.

I really liked Haye after the Thompson loss because he was disciplined. Too many easy fights? Too much success with the overhand right? I think it's a shame that cruiserweight's not as recognised in the eyes of the public.

[deadpan]

I picked Wlad on points. Thought it'd be closer, but my bet still won regardless.

[mikewl]

I picked Wlad on points. Thought it'd be closer, but my bet still won regardless.

Congrats man, your one of the small amount that did.

Sportsbooks took the most action on Haye, mostly by KO and specific rounds, then Wlad by KO and probably most took the Under too so the bookies absolutely rinced the public on this.

Glad someone picked up some cash though.

[mkirkhope]

I picked Wlad on points. Thought it'd be closer, but my bet still won regardless.

Congrats man, your one of the small amount that did.

Sportsbooks took the most action on Haye, mostly by KO and specific rounds, then Wlad by KO and probably most took the Under too so the bookies absolutely rinced the public on this.

Glad someone picked up some cash though.

The bookies here must love it when a British athlete/team goes up against a better opponent from another country. Everyone just drinks the kool aid sky are serving up then bets on the UK guy to win. I bet they got tonnes of bets on Hatton to beat Mayweather also.

[Emmseegee]

Think most of us and hayes team completely underestimated how hard it would be to get under wlad's jab.

Wlad is to me a limited fighter but he knows where his strengths are and knows how to use them. I dont take anything away from haye as a fighter, hes still entertaining....usually, and id still pay to watch him fight anytime but he was always gonna struggle against a klitschko.

Cant deny that i was dissapointed that he didnt have a real go at it but sometimes people get too much undeserved abuse, hes went up against one of the most dominant fighters of the modern era and lost. Simple as that, at least he got the fight, wether he talked his way into it or earned his way into it to me doesnt matter.

For the first time in a long long time people were talking about the heavyweight division again and all the credit for that goes to haye. Two men were in the ring bu one man made it the event that it was and that was haye.

If haye retires then so be it, if he fights on then i will watch.
If either klitschko books a fight against anyone else other than haye in my back garden, id rather play fight night on the ps3.

[mkirkhope]

Think most of us and hayes team completely underestimated how hard it would be to get under wlad's jab.

Wlad is to me a limited fighter but he knows where his strengths are and knows how to use them. I dont take anything away from haye as a fighter, hes still entertaining....usually, and id still pay to watch him fight anytime but he was always gonna struggle against a klitschko.

Cant deny that i was dissapointed that he didnt have a real go at it but sometimes people get too much undeserved abuse, hes went up against one of the most dominant fighters of the modern era and lost. Simple as that, at least he got the fight, wether he talked his way into it or earned his way into it to me doesnt matter.

For the first time in a long long time people were talking about the heavyweight division again and all the credit for that goes to haye. Two men were in the ring bu one man made it the event that it was and that was haye.

If haye retires then so be it, if he fights on then i will watch.
If either klitschko books a fight against anyone else other than haye in my back garden, id rather play fight night on the ps3.

I don't really understand this theory that Haye is amazingly exciting and Klitschko is devastatingly boring. Did you watch Haye Valuev? That was surely more boring from Haye than anything Wlad has produced? It was painful tactics and viewing.

I agree with some of what you are saying but against good opposition in the HW division (say top 10) Haye is no more interesting to watch than Wlad in my opinion. Just cause he can beat Fraudley or old-man Ruiz doesn't make him an 'exciting heavyweight'.

[leforge]

complete non performance, you dont win by throwing 15 punches a round.
once vlad realised the left hook big right could be negated by pushing down..no plan b.
poor very poor from haye. no excuses you didnt walk the walk

Wlad was never hurt unlike when Sanders, Brewster or Peter first time hit him! haye was overrated by many on here!

[thaibox uk]

Great fighter just to small for Wlad and Vitali,
only ever had a punchers chance tonight,
I did feel he could do it, but did i put money on it NO

Sorry mate. Haye was never a great fighter.

He didn`t stay at cruiser long enough to cement anything. It was a real smash and grab at that division ... and he tried an even quicker job at heavyweight.
To some extent he succeeded. He got the big pay day. Such a shame he is too thick to have turned the volume down once the deal was done ... he has made a fool out of himself with his silly childish big boasts ... that he failed to even attempt at trying.

Excellent post 100% accurate

[jeej]

Some people are so naive and fickle.

Haye talked the talk pre fight to sell tickets. This is not a revolutionary tactic by any means.

Haye was dwarfed by Wlad, and not just in height. For all of those who thought Haye was gonna go toe to toe and hold the centre of the ring with Wlad, well... think you've been watching too many Rocky films.

A lot just seem to have presumed all the hype and talk pre fight automatically meant Haye was gonna waltz into the ring and smash Wlad up like he was nothing. Get a grip! Yeah, it was a pretty boring fight and yeah it was disappointing that Haye couldn't get under that jab and land enough meaningful shots, but don't let your anger and frustration kill all the logic in your thinking.

Particularly in the current scene there's some right nonsense being said. People claiming Haye doesn't know how to box and that he's not the best heavyweight around. Of course he knows how to box, don't be stupid. And not the best heavyweight? No shit! The guy's a blown up cruiser trying to capitalise on a shoddy heavyweight division. Always amazes me when people can be so critical at a guy fighting outside of his own natural weight division. We cant all be Manny P!

Personally, I think after the first few rounds Haye realised he was in for a long night. He just couldn't get close enough to Wlad. Full credit to Wlad for staying cool and fighting a very tidy game plan. Wlad fought to his own strengths. He knew that if he tried to land his own bombs he would potentially leave himself open to Haye's. So obviously Wlad realised that at the very least he could just use his jab to keep Haye at bay and win it on points. Hence Haye was the one who had it all to do. So, after figuring that he couldn't pull off his game plan, Haye thought his best bet was to use feints and manouvers to get Wlad to move in and then land a hayemaker. But it just wasn't happening.

A lot of people analysing this fight, and again particularly in the current scene, are adding a lot of bias against Haye purely cos they dislike him. Claiming he didn't have a game plan. Seriously? Do you think any fighter fighting at championship level ever goes into a fight without a game plan? What the hell do you think they're doing for months in the lead up to a fight? Don't confuse a failed game plan with not having a game plan. Still, Haye was right when he said if he loses this fight then it undermines all of his other achievements, because a lot of people are talking now like he's this awful, clueless boxer, which is frankly harsh beyond belief.

In conclusion; Haye had a plan, it was a logical plan, but it just wasn't enough to beat Wlad. As boring as the fight was, Wlad did what he had to do, and Haye simply couldn't achieve what he wanted to. I thought the judges cards were a bit wide, but ultimately a UD was a fair result. I think a rematch would be interesting, if Wlad was to allow Haye one, but there's obviously a risk that it would just pan out exactly the same way again. Booth reckons Haye is still gonna retire in October, so if that's the case then Haye has either one or no fights left.

[tonyevs]

Its not a case of watching too many Rocky films to expectt Haye to have tried harder.
Its merely believing what Haye promised all his fans.
He likes to be compared to Ali and Holyfield. Would either of those greats have been so meek when the bell rang?

Haye is just a fake job.
I only hope more people will now see that he isn't an exciting heavyweight, he never was.
And the saviour of the division? Not with his terrible cautious style.

Holyfield showed how to fight bigger men when your the smaller guy.
Haye simply didn't have a clue - or risk trying to find out.

[thaibox uk]

Its not a case of watching too many Rocky films to expectt Haye to have tried harder.
Its merely believing what Haye promised all his fans.
He likes to be compared to Ali and Holyfield. Would either of those greats have been so meek when the bell rang?

Haye is just a fake job.
I only hope more people will now see that he isn't an exciting heavyweight, he never was.
And the saviour of the division? Not with his terrible cautious style.

Holyfield showed how to fight bigger men when your the smaller guy.
Haye simply didn't have a clue - or risk trying to find out.

The great rock n roll swindle comes to mind.

[Lightsoot]

Poor effort by Haye, I was really disappointed by his negativity and thought, at least, he'd go for broke in the latter stages when realising that he was trailing on the cards.

I get why Haye employed his tactics, I get he had a mountain to climb against a much bigger man, but his task wasn't as insurmountable as some now claim. Corrie Sanders proved that.

[Rocky Balboa]

Exactly as I imagined. Haye has no legacy and I am sick of hearing about it. Thanks Wlad.

I agree but what fcuking Legacy has Wlad or Vitali got? If people are gonna slag Haye for yesterday's performance then fair enough, but Wladamir was just as bad. The Heavyweight Division is in the Gutter - the actual standard of Boxing in the division is at its worst, EVER!

Its not even worth following anyone. People trying to talk about the Klitschko's in the same sentence as people like Ali, Tyson, Holmes or Louis. These guys would have buried them & it would be down to the fact that they had more guts than them. They went for it, they asserted themselves.

That wasn't a boxing match last night. It was a Fencing competition!

[dragons]

Well, I would like to see Wladimir Klitchsko defending his title outside of Germnay. That would be a start.

But as for Haye, very disappointing result, maybe a rematch in London?

Dont think David (The Toe) Haye deserves a rematch the man is a disgrace to boxing

He should fight the winner of Fury v Chisora and go from there.

[WildWaylon]

Funny how those tipping Wlad, all tipped to win by KO, some by early KO. So spare us the 'I told you....' stuff.

You picked a winner out of 2 guys, hopelessly incorrect about how it was going to be done.

Five of us watched the fight and all of us were certain it would end with a KO. My so in law had two bets on with the bookies. Wlad in the 4th and Haye in the 9th. We all got it wrong and so did David Haye!!!!

[jeej]

Well, I would like to see Wladimir Klitchsko defending his title outside of Germnay. That would be a start.

But as for Haye, very disappointing result, maybe a rematch in London?

Dont think David (The Toe) Haye deserves a rematch the man is a disgrace to boxing

He should fight the winner of Fury v Chisora and go from there.

You're an idiot.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Exactly as I imagined. Haye has no legacy and I am sick of hearing about it. Thanks Wlad.

I agree but what fcuking Legacy has Wlad or Vitali got? If people are gonna slag Haye for yesterday's performance then fair enough, but Wladamir was just as bad. The Heavyweight Division is in the Gutter - the actual standard of Boxing in the division is at its worst, EVER!

Its not even worth following anyone. People trying to talk about the Klitschko's in the same sentence as people like Ali, Tyson, Holmes or Louis. These guys would have buried them & it would be down to the fact that they had more guts than them. They went for it, they asserted themselves.

That wasn't a boxing match last night. It was a Fencing competition!

You sir, are a moron.

Wlad and Vitali have dominated the heavyweight division for ten years. They aren't exciting, but so what, give them some credit. You are clearly pissed off that your man got beat into a cocked hat. If you had any sense you would have known that Haye had little or no chance, and judging by the way he fought Valuev, would probably fight negatively.

Ali would not have buried Vitali, Vitali is one of the toughest, hardest men, the division has ever seen. Ask any fighter and I will guarantee they will say the same thing. Vitali is a street fighter through and through. Nobody in the history of the division would have buried him.

[alexpaterson]

I had it 118-110 Klitschko. He dictated the pace and distance throughout and backed Haye up behind his long jab and when Haye came in with his wild novice like combinations he stepped backed and landed a jab or a cuffing hook.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I had it 118-110 Klitschko. He dictated the pace and distance throughout and backed Haye up behind his long jab and when Haye came in with his wild novice like combinations he stepped backed and landed a jab or a cuffing hook.

not read my notes back yet, but i think I gave Haye a share of a round and one round.

[alexpaterson]

I gave Haye the third and the seventh. The last was close as was the first

[NazNaci1]

Very, very disappointing effort from Haye.

I know there is a thread about Booth and his tactics, but why did they employ the same tactics as they did for Valuev??

I was in total agreement with McGuigan (which is not often) when he suggested there was 'no way' Haye could win the fight backing off.

Jim Watt added, allowing Wlad to get comfortable throwing the jab, it would be hard to shake him out of his rhythm.

Backing off, circling allowing Wlad (and he did allow Wlad - Wlad never took it) to claim the centre of the ring, dictate the range was suicidal.

Although Wlad missed alot of his punches, his jab began to score more towards the end, he:

A) Threw more punches than Haye.
B) Was coming forward.
C) Throwing the straighter punches, in his own range but out of Haye's.


Haye's performance was pretty dire, and he will, no doubt, be regretting that he never did more. Those roundhouse rights missed all night, with Wlad simply stepping back. I was surprised Booth did not pick up on that sooner and told Haye to adjust.

The last round, Haye stood his ground alittle more and looked to slip, landing one punch which definitely got Wlad's attention, as he grabbed tightly.

The circling and moving worked against Valuev, as he was big, cumbersome and threw even less than Haye. Plenty of people on these forums said that same tactic was not the answer to beat Wlad.

Wlad is a top fighter and one I genuinely like and he did what he always done. So credit to one guy on here, Greg, as he did say, it would be business as usual.

And so it was.

[Autobarn]

haye and booth always risked looking like twats - albeit rich twats.

if he had a bad toe, maybe it did hurt his movement, ability to throw rights and balance.

hated to see wlad grab so hard and pull on the head every time he took a hard shot.great heavyweight champs are supposed to be able to get into exchanges. wlad won't punch unless he is certain the other guy cannot throw back.

it must have been infuriating for haye, but also for the ppl who expected so much more from him. on one occasion haye landed a good right then whacked wlad's body. a good idea, that could have enabled something to hapen. but then again wlad did the octopus thing, wrapping haye helplessly up.

the K2s will go on forever unless someone actually tries to punch them. haye cam across as a heavyweight with bad intentions during the build up. now he will have to forget about thi year's retirement, get humble, get real and try to prove himself.

[greg]

Wlad is a top fighter and one I genuinely like and he did what he always done. So credit to one guy on here, Greg, as he did say, it would be business as usual.

And so it was.

Hey, I'm not perfect either...hope I was not too much of a nuisance to you guys...

[dbf]

I was disappointed with Haye last night.

He wasn't as sharp or as explosive as I thought he would be and he never seemed to really want it so bad that he was prepared to push for the win.

Before I go into some other post fight thoughts there are a few good points to the whole thing;
>Haye showed that he could take a flush right hand from Wladimir and didn't look phased.
>Haye gave up 4 inchs and 30lbs - those are massive advantages for Klitschko and that should not be forgotten
>Haye wanted this fight, he went straight to the top man and made the fight - commendable in this era.

Conclusions
All the talk of the gameplan etc was nonsense, deep down Haye believed he would knock out Wladimir and that is never a good mindset. There needed to be a plan B and I don't think he showed versatility.

Haye used the word 'frustrated' about 20 times in the post fight interview, referring mainly to his toe injury but I think he was more frustrated that he couldn't get past the jab of the champion and his use of the word demonstrated that.

Haye has fast hands, can punch and has very quick reactions, but I have always felt and think last night justified it, that there was always something missing. I can't quite put my finger on it, but its like he said the right things, had the physique and skills but lacked something inside.

I feel for Haye - his interview with Craig Slater today reminded me a little of Hatton the day after he lost to Mayweather. This was the big one for Haye, the fight he always wanted and he rightfully thought he would win. Coming back personally as well as professionally is going to be difficult, but he appears to have a good group of friends around him who will help.

I guess ultimately I wanted more - I thought Haye would be the british fighter that had a style that could stand next to the likes of my American fight heroes Roy Jones Jr, SRL etc and win this massive fight.

He fought like a man who never fully wanted to commit as with £10m coming in, a wife, two kids and a long future ahead of him he probably made the right decision to not go for broke.