Didn't Haye Just Do The Best He Could On The Night?

[Duran Fan]

Whatever you think of toe-gate, it wouldn't make fight Wladimir Klitschko any easier. I think the strategy was to knock Wladimir out and it failed.

I honestly think Haye did the best he could that night. He tried throwing bombs and it failed. Hindsight is a wonderfull thing and obviously Haye would try a different strategy if it happened again.

I know a lot of people are disapointed with the result or with the fight itself, but surely Haye was just beaten by the better man, fair and square.

Good post.

[keithmoonhangover]

I agree Haye did his best. He made Wlad miss time and time again, but he couldn't make him pay. The people saying he didn't try are just trying to punish him because they've lost face by predicting him to win. He made Wlad miss like an idiot round after round, landed a few bombs and gave Wlad a "pizza face", without getting one himself, as Klitschko had promised. He also didn't run, he stood against the ropes for extended periods, using amazing reflexes to avoid punches. As disappointing as the result was, I think Haye has a lot to be proud of.

Well, it's nice to focus on the positives, I suppose.

He should have been much more aggressive. He wasn't prepared to be. This wasn't a Rhodes-Alvarez scenario where he would definitely have been done. On the couple of occasions Haye 'put it on him', Wlad sh1t himself and hugged him like he was his woman.

Haye just wasn't prepared to lay it on the line on this occasion - the biggest occasion of all.

Quite frankly, I'll never believe another word he says.

Me either - I always thought he had bugger all chance, but the way he fought, he had zero chance. The only way he beats Wlad is to follow up when he lands, and throws combinations, keeping wlad off balance and on the back foot. Wlad doesn't like being hit, but he's smart enough to beat someone who only potshots.

Haye made a cold, calculated decision, to lose, go the 12 rounds, collect his paycheck, and not get hurt. For 6 million quid, that's a pretty reprehensible approach, when the fans are writing a lot of that paycheck.

Here's my take on it.
http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTI ... 07-04.html

What is your evidence for suggesting that Haye is happy to lose just because he got paid loads of dosh?

[dondada]

What is your evidence for suggesting that Haye is happy to lose just because he got paid loads of dosh?

The abject manner of his loss coupled with his suggestion that Wlad should give him a rematch because it's the way of earning the most money?

Good article, Jimbo. If I'm allowed to pinch it for BoxRec News, let me know, as it'll save me time in doing my own.

[keithmoonhangover]

What is your evidence for suggesting that Haye is happy to lose just because he got paid loads of dosh?

The abject manner of his loss coupled with his suggestion that Wlad should give him a rematch because it's the way of earning the most money?

Good article, Jimbo. If I'm allowed to pinch it for BoxRec News, let me know, as it'll save me time in doing my own.

When you put it like that it makes sense.

I think I'm still in shock from the whole affair.

[TempleSlave]

Not sure he did

Never thought I'd see Haye settle for a moral victory in going twelve rounds. It was Kevin Johnson-esque

It was nothing like Johnson. Right until the final bell, Haye was looking to find his way in to land a bomb.

I agree with lefthook82: it was Johnson-esque (vs Vitali) performance in terms of (not) taking a risk.

[keithmoonhangover]

Not sure he did

Never thought I'd see Haye settle for a moral victory in going twelve rounds. It was Kevin Johnson-esque

It was nothing like Johnson. Right until the final bell, Haye was looking to find his way in to land a bomb.

I agree with lefthook82: it was Johnson-esque (vs Vitali) performance in terms of (not) taking a risk.

I've just been watching the fight again. It's not an easy watch.

[TempleSlave]

http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTI ... 07-04.html

Agree with every single word/syllable/letter in this article

LOL @ 'against the pacifistic Audley Harrison'

[dondada]

Ah well, respect to Haye, he dreamed the dream, fought the fight but was made to toe the line by a better boxer.

I'm at the completely opposite end of the spectrum of opinion on this. His own attitude, not Wlad, was the biggest factor in him being almost completely ineffective in terms of offense.

I just don't believe that he couldn't have done more. Much more.

I do understand the opposite view but totally disagree.

[THE MESSIAH]

He could have gone for broke, knock out or be knocked out.

But he chose not TOE.

I toe its hard to hear, but he bottled it.

[Deserter]

Ah well, respect to Haye, he dreamed the dream, fought the fight but was made to toe the line by a better boxer.

I'm at the completely opposite end of the spectrum of opinion on this. His own attitude, not Wlad, was the biggest factor in him being almost completely ineffective in terms of offense.

I just don't believe that he couldn't have done more. Much more.

I do understand the opposite view but totally disagree.

I agree with those who felt that Haye lost it when he was hurled to the floor and pecked by the jab in the first. Sounds blasé but a similar thing set the tone for the Lewis-Tyson fight. Mike attacked, Lewis fired back, a bit wildly to be fair, and Mike went into a shell.

Wlad subjugated his opponent early and it panned out like every recent Wlad fight. The irony of the contest is that Haye blasted other fighters for falling under Dr. Steelhammers spell only to find that the reality of fighting him was bigger than he could have imagined.

I hadn't thought of this comparison before, but it really resonates with me. Good call.

[NazNaci1]

People asked him why he was ineffective and he pointed to the fact about his toe, now whether you believe that was an issue or not, it doesn't matter. They asked why he couldn't do much and he said that was the reason.

However bear in mind, at every turn, since the fight, he has said Wlad was the better fighter on the night, a great fighter and fully deserved to win. Something he has repeated often enough since the fight.

So lets keep things in a little perspective, the guy won a portion of the title in Germany, defended it a couple times, went to Germany to fight the No1, took his lumps, lost on points and then gave the utmost respect to Wlad, the Champ.

Ridicule him as much as you want but he did do all of the above and he deserves some credit for that.

[THE MESSIAH]

People asked him why he was ineffective and he pointed to the fact about his toe, now whether you believe that was an issue or not, it doesn't matter. They asked why he couldn't do much and he said that was the reason.

However bear in mind, at every turn, since the fight, he has said Wlad was the better fighter on the night, a great fighter and fully deserved to win. Something he has repeated often enough since the fight.

So lets keep things in a little perspective, the guy won a portion of the title in Germany, defended it a couple times, went to Germany to fight the No1, took his lumps, lost on points and then gave the utmost respect to Wlad, the Champ.

Ridicule him as much as you want but he did do all of the above and he deserves some credit for that.

His boasts and vile taunts have come back to haunt him.

Also, he mentioned the TOE before anyone asked about it, watch the fight and tell me I am wrong.

[dondada]

So lets keep things in a little perspective, the guy won a portion of the title in Germany, defended it a couple times, went to Germany to fight the No1, took his lumps, lost on points and then gave the utmost respect to Wlad, the Champ.

Ridicule him as much as you want but he did do all of the above and he deserves some credit for that.

The other perception is this: he very narrowly beat one of the worst heavyweight champs in history in an incredibly boring fight, defended it twice against hand picked opponents, talked himself into a massive fight and then didn't produce the goods after chatting sh*t for months.

Defend him as much as you want but he did do all of the above and he deserves some opprobrium for that.

[dondada]

I'm at the completely opposite end of the spectrum of opinion on this. His own attitude, not Wlad, was the biggest factor in him being almost completely ineffective in terms of offense.

I just don't believe that he couldn't have done more. Much more.

I do understand the opposite view but totally disagree.

I agree with those who felt that Haye lost it when he was hurled to the floor and pecked by the jab in the first. Sounds blasé but a similar thing set the tone for the Lewis-Tyson fight. Mike attacked, Lewis fired back, a bit wildly to be fair, and Mike went into a shell.

Wlad subjugated his opponent early and it panned out like every recent Wlad fight. The irony of the contest is that Haye blasted other fighters for falling under Dr. Steelhammers spell only to find that the reality of fighting him was bigger than he could have imagined.

I hadn't thought of this comparison before, but it really resonates with me. Good call.

It doesn't with me. Tyson was pretty much done at the time, mentally and physically.

Haye is supposedly at the peak of his powers. He f*cking allowed himself to be subjugated, far too easily. A big part of my resentment stems from a feeling that I feel I've been conned as I thought he was different. He wasn't and isn't.

I completely agree with King G's irony point though.

[Autobarn]

haye and booth took on extra help before, with the cubans in miami when he was european cruiserweight champ. they were praised for doing so. now that they know they aren't quite the masterminds, i hope they try out some serious changes.

to answer the thread title, he fought like someone who wasn't willing to really fight for the championships. simply not enough offense, and what there was, was too sloppy. his right hand is crooked rather than straight and sends him southpaw, for instance. his jab is merely a counter jab, not an assertive one. he looked like he felt he didn't belong in there with the big boys. he showed some good movement, but could not synthesize movement and punching. admittedly it is almost impossible to get near wlad, who excels vs slick or fast guys (haye, chambers, byrd) and almost shitss it vs stronger guys (mccline, peter).

haye needs a totally different philisophy. haye and booth got so far, but surely they know they cannot take on the universe & have taken such a massive fall in credibility that their rivals will be pissing themselves laughing after such a flop. hayemaker has his millions but at what cost.

[NazNaci1]

In the immediate aftermath of the fight, HE mentions the toe, which is true, but in several post fight interviews he was asked why he could not do what he does and he suggests the toe was a reason but quickly adds that Wlad was a great, great fighter, the Champion and won fair and square on the night. Given what went on, that shows class, whether some of you agree with it or not.

And as for the 'vile' taunts, this is what happens in Boxing. I have heard a lot, lot worse from boxers.

Go listen to some of the stuff Mike Tyson (a great fighter) and Ali said. Even some of the stuff Benn or Naz used to say. Haye stuff is nothing compared to that, so why get upset with him?

[NazNaci1]

Defend him as much as you want but he did do all of the above and he deserves some opprobrium for that.

Its not about 'defence', Ian. The guy was poor, no question about that toe problem or not. He lost the fight, away in Germany against the recognised No 1, he took his shot at Wlad, lost and gave respect to the winner. That shows genuine class.

He was disappointingly bad, on the night, and rightly so, should take his medicine, which he accepts. However again, he went into the Lion's den, 3 times in total, all for World title fights, how many British fighters can say that?

There is no shame in losing to a better fighter and no one ever called Haye an all time great or anything. He lost to a better fighter, on away soil. so he has to take his place.

[THE MESSIAH]

In the immediate aftermath of the fight, HE mentions the toe, which is true, but in several post fight interviews he was asked why he could not do what he does and he suggests the toe was a reason but quickly adds that Wlad was a great, great fighter, the Champion and won fair and square on the night. Given what went on, that shows class, whether some of you agree with it or not.

And as for the 'vile' taunts, this is what happens in Boxing. I have heard a lot, lot worse from boxers.

Go listen to some of the stuff Mike Tyson (a great fighter) and Ali said. Even some of the stuff Benn or Naz used to say. Haye stuff is nothing compared to that, so why get upset with him?

On every interview he states 'they asked my why I did not doi what I said I would do' then he mentions the toe.

The t-shirts.
execution talk.
dickhead talk.

HAYE is a bit of a joke at the moment.

[NazNaci1]

You don't seem to mention how much he praises Wlad though, mate.

He is giving him the utmost credit, as a great fighter, a better fighter and Champion. He has done that in every interview after the fight. That can't be easy, saying the guy was better than you, given the build up to the fight.

Its different you and I saying it,but for the fighter to say it, given Haye's ego, deserves some respect. Especially as some people thought should Haye lose, he was going to walk off and give Wlad no respect.

[Deserter]

You don't seem to mention how much he praises Wlad though, mate.

He is giving him the utmost credit, as a great fighter, a better fighter and Champion. He has done that in every interview after the fight. That can't be easy, saying the guy was better than you, given the build up to the fight.

Its different you and I saying it,but for the fighter to say it, given Haye's ego, deserves some respect. Especially as some people thought should Haye lose, he was going to walk off and give Wlad no respect.

There's been a dramatic difference in Haye's public utterances in the post 24/28 hours and based on my experience I'd say it's down to a PR/publicist, rather than a change of heart by Haye. 'Toe-gate' has done huge damage to his credibility and I'm convinced they've brought somebody in for damage limitation.

[mkirkhope]

People asked him why he was ineffective and he pointed to the fact about his toe, now whether you believe that was an issue or not, it doesn't matter. They asked why he couldn't do much and he said that was the reason.

However bear in mind, at every turn, since the fight, he has said Wlad was the better fighter on the night, a great fighter and fully deserved to win. Something he has repeated often enough since the fight.

So lets keep things in a little perspective, the guy won a portion of the title in Germany, defended it a couple times, went to Germany to fight the No1, took his lumps, lost on points and then gave the utmost respect to Wlad, the Champ.

Ridicule him as much as you want but he did do all of the above and he deserves some credit for that.

Don't agree at all - yesterday afternoon and today he is all of a sudden giving Wlad some grudging respect (normally after initially mentioning the toe) but his interviews the day after the fight outside the hotel and at the airport just consisted of an incredibly long list of excuses (the toe, the judges, the "idiot ref", not getting decisions in Germany, fans stepping on his foot on way to ring, the fact the sky is blue and the grass is green etc).

The fact that he has very recently started to give Wlad respect is probably more the result of prompting from a PR company trying to rescue this image disaster than coming from within himself.

I certainly wouldn't describe his behaviour from the end of the fight till now as providing Wlad with the 'utmost respect'.

Whatever way you look at it (and it's all getting a bit boring), someone who yanks their boot off and begins the post fight interview by proclaiming the only reason he lost was that his toe was too sore is embarrassing. Both on him and for the people supporting him. The fact that he's trying to change his opinions now doesn't change that. He showed Wlad NO respect after the fight at all (or even in the conference wondering around on the table with his flip flops on).

[Deserter]

I agree with those who felt that Haye lost it when he was hurled to the floor and pecked by the jab in the first. Sounds blasé but a similar thing set the tone for the Lewis-Tyson fight. Mike attacked, Lewis fired back, a bit wildly to be fair, and Mike went into a shell.

Wlad subjugated his opponent early and it panned out like every recent Wlad fight. The irony of the contest is that Haye blasted other fighters for falling under Dr. Steelhammers spell only to find that the reality of fighting him was bigger than he could have imagined.

I hadn't thought of this comparison before, but it really resonates with me. Good call.

It doesn't with me. Tyson was pretty much done at the time, mentally and physically.

Haye is supposedly at the peak of his powers. He f*cking allowed himself to be subjugated, far too easily. A big part of my resentment stems from a feeling that I feel I've been conned as I thought he was different. He wasn't and isn't.

I completely agree with King G's irony point though.

Ian, you're missing my point - I'm agreeing with KG's sentiment that after Haye felt the strength of Vlad early doors, he mentally 'retired' from the fight. That's where the similarity with Mike lies, not in their respective conditions.

[dondada]

He lost the fight, away in Germany against the recognised No 1, he took his shot at Wlad, lost and gave respect to the winner. That shows genuine class.

Disagree mate, he's shown very little class at all - or at least he didn't in the immediate aftermath. Not sure what he's been saying since; I simply can't bear to listen to him any more.

A simple thing though - surely you realise the more he praises Wlad now, the more his dire effort seems justifiable?

[dondada]

Ian, you're missing my point - I'm agreeing with KG's sentiment that after Haye felt the strength of Vlad early doors, he mentally 'retired' from the fight. That's where the similarity with Mike lies, not in their respective conditions.

Oh right, got you...

[NazNaci1]

A simple thing though - surely you realise the more he praises Wlad now, the more his dire effort seems justifiable?

There is some damage limitation going on, but the offering some respect is the least he could do, right?