Map out a way to save Haye's legacy.

[jamesmcdonnell]

with hayes inactivity it could be 2 or maybe 3 years to get through those fights , making him 34 , if he doesnt retire at 31 as he said then can you really see him going on til 34 ?

Exactly he's not suddenly going to start fighting 3/4 times a year so there's no point giving him a whole load of fights.

Also i don't think it's his legacy that needs saving as that's already secure in terms of becoming the ring Cruiserweight champion and holding 1 of the Heavyweight world title belts and i'm sure history will be kinder to him then the present press. It's his reputation shortime that needs to be 'saved' or at least re-established, your only as good as your last performance so he need's to move on from it as quickly as possible and get another fight sorted out before October.

He's best off making his American Debut on HBO in September/October, there's only 2 heavyweights that HBO would be willing to accept which are Chris Arreola and Bermine Stiverne. I'm pretty sure Arreola will be fighting Wladimir next around November at MSG so he will be out of the picture which just leaves Stiverne who is the perfect choice.

Not only is Stiverne beatable although he is quite possible the hardest hitting heavyweight around but more significantly he is also the holder of the vacant WBC Silver heavyweight title and the official mandatory challenger for the WBC Heavyweight title held by Vitali Klitschko. If Haye was to beat Stiverne then he would become the mandatory challenger himself and get a shot at the WBC belt next year plus not be held ranson to the Klitschko slave contract.

If he was to beat the then 40/41 year old Vitali he could then set up a Rematch with Wlad before October 2012 and find redemption plus retire before he turns 32.

I hope someone from the Haye camp reads this message as this really is the best way forward if David decides to continue.

Never even heard of Stiverne!!! And he has a silver belt!!!

I may not be as well up on the American scene as I used to be, but blimey, they really are giving those things away like christmas cracker toys.

[kamicazze]

with hayes inactivity it could be 2 or maybe 3 years to get through those fights , making him 34 , if he doesnt retire at 31 as he said then can you really see him going on til 34 ?

Exactly he's not suddenly going to start fighting 3/4 times a year so there's no point giving him a whole load of fights.

Also i don't think it's his legacy that needs saving as that's already secure in terms of becoming the ring Cruiserweight champion and holding 1 of the Heavyweight world title belts and i'm sure history will be kinder to him then the present press. It's his reputation shortime that needs to be 'saved' or at least re-established, your only as good as your last performance so he need's to move on from it as quickly as possible and get another fight sorted out before October.

He's best off making his American Debut on HBO in September/October, there's only 2 heavyweights that HBO would be willing to accept which are Chris Arreola and Bermine Stiverne. I'm pretty sure Arreola will be fighting Wladimir next around November at MSG so he will be out of the picture which just leaves Stiverne who is the perfect choice.

Not only is Stiverne beatable although he is quite possible the hardest hitting heavyweight around but more significantly he is also the holder of the vacant WBC Silver heavyweight title and the official mandatory challenger for the WBC Heavyweight title held by Vitali Klitschko. If Haye was to beat Stiverne then he would become the mandatory challenger himself and get a shot at the WBC belt next year plus not be held ranson to the Klitschko slave contract.

If he was to beat the then 40/41 year old Vitali he could then set up a Rematch with Wlad before October 2012 and find redemption plus retire before he turns 32.

I hope someone from the Haye camp reads this message as this really is the best way forward if David decides to continue.

A very good way of doing it indeed.

[kamicazze]

I wasn't joking no. After all you say Holyfield is gone but he arguably done better against Valuev than haye did. Adamek, Arreola, and povetkin are the ones are good for us. But for a casual fan theyd prefer Holyfield, Toney and Solis because they know the names and in solis case there is a story behind it.

Holyfield fought Valuev 4 years ago dude. He looked like absolute crap in his last fight.

You need to follow the sport a bit closer.

A casual fan and one of us is a completely different situation. Say Haye fights Toney and one the same card Chisora fights holyfield. Then winner vs winner. Holyfield may still be able to beat chisora. if not then haye moves on. It appeals to the casual fan. yes we hate seeing ageing fighters go on past it, but from a promoters point of view it means less work for them

[stujones]

Why is everyone mentioning Arreola... okay I wouldn't be annoyed if it did happen, but he is not that well known and I don't think he belongs in the top ten and he is not known for his boxing ability but the fact that he swears like a trooper after the fight.

If Mike Perez can get a half decent win soon then that would be decent, his prizefighter win created a buzz.

I depends on his desired route...... if he wants the Klitchsko's then one route would be to fight Helenius, who is well known in Germany, so that would generate interest in Germany - impress win there and he could generate some favour back in Germany.

He could go down the "HBO" route and see, with the right marketing strategy, if Golden Boy can get him a date with Klitchsko getting back in favour with the US market. Guys like Adamek, Chambers and yes... Arreola wouldn't be bad. What about the Golden Boy prospect, Seth Mitchell - has a nice record at least.

[mkirkhope]

I thiink he needs a name to get himself back on the map. I would begin with having him in a match with James Toney. He wins that and he can face Evander Holyfield.
I would then use big box office over here to promote an Oliander Solis match stemming from the amateur loss.
Then Vegas for Arreola for what would probably be a Vacant title at this point.
Next up would be Thomasz Adamek in the Boardwalk
Then he would fight an unbeaten Alexander Povetkin if povetkin hasnt already been defeated. In that case he fights the nearest up and comer such as helenius or mike perez
Then he gets the big one with Wladimir.
Win that and start calling Vitali out of retirement. Bring out a new T-shirt with Wladimirs head already severed and Vitali's head on the guillotine. Haye would of course be standing in the photo as the executioner.
Win or lose this and retire

Why is everyone talking about Holyfield - Holyfield is worse than Ruiz - he's gone.

I'm incredulous that anyone would even dare mention holyfield as an opponent that would REDEEM Haye, for me it would tarnish his resume even farther.

Haye isn't going to get another shot at Wlad or Vitali, more to the point, he hasn't the tools to be the main man in the division even with them gone. There's guys he can beat, but also plenty who will beat him. He was an excellent cruiserweight (but let's face it, never stuck around to dominate), but only a good heavyweight.

Agree - Holyfield just adds another fight to the resume that doesn't prove anything at all.

And it's interesting people are talking about what order to go through arreola/adamek/povetkin etc then challenge Wlad again - I'm not 100% certain he automatically gets past any of those guys and I don't think he has it in him to go into a real battle for not as much money as he is used to and no instant shot at Wlad after one fight.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I wasn't joking no. After all you say Holyfield is gone but he arguably done better against Valuev than haye did. Adamek, Arreola, and povetkin are the ones are good for us. But for a casual fan theyd prefer Holyfield, Toney and Solis because they know the names and in solis case there is a story behind it.

Holyfield fought Valuev 4 years ago dude. He looked like absolute crap in his last fight.

You need to follow the sport a bit closer.

A casual fan and one of us is a completely different situation. Say Haye fights Toney and one the same card Chisora fights holyfield. Then winner vs winner. Holyfield may still be able to beat chisora. if not then haye moves on. It appeals to the casual fan. yes we hate seeing ageing fighters go on past it, but from a promoters point of view it means less work for them

Toney, AHAHAHAHA! Toneyn is clinically obese these days! Have you seen the state of him. His last win was over a journeyman 2 years ago!!!

No TV company is going to pay good money to see Toney or Holyfield v Haye, there's a danger one of them gets beaten to death at this stage of their careers.

You are to promotional nous what Gandhi was to street fighting.

It's not just about casual fans, it's about TV companies, and promotional outfits and they aren't going to sanction gross mismatches for high stakes.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I thiink he needs a name to get himself back on the map. I would begin with having him in a match with James Toney. He wins that and he can face Evander Holyfield.
I would then use big box office over here to promote an Oliander Solis match stemming from the amateur loss.
Then Vegas for Arreola for what would probably be a Vacant title at this point.
Next up would be Thomasz Adamek in the Boardwalk
Then he would fight an unbeaten Alexander Povetkin if povetkin hasnt already been defeated. In that case he fights the nearest up and comer such as helenius or mike perez
Then he gets the big one with Wladimir.
Win that and start calling Vitali out of retirement. Bring out a new T-shirt with Wladimirs head already severed and Vitali's head on the guillotine. Haye would of course be standing in the photo as the executioner.
Win or lose this and retire

Why is everyone talking about Holyfield - Holyfield is worse than Ruiz - he's gone.

I'm incredulous that anyone would even dare mention holyfield as an opponent that would REDEEM Haye, for me it would tarnish his resume even farther.

Haye isn't going to get another shot at Wlad or Vitali, more to the point, he hasn't the tools to be the main man in the division even with them gone. There's guys he can beat, but also plenty who will beat him. He was an excellent cruiserweight (but let's face it, never stuck around to dominate), but only a good heavyweight.

Agree - Holyfield just adds another fight to the resume that doesn't prove anything at all.

And it's interesting people are talking about what order to go through arreola/adamek/povetkin etc then challenge Wlad again - I'm not 100% certain he automatically gets past any of those guys and I don't think he has it in him to go into a real battle for not as much money as he is used to and no instant shot at Wlad after one fight.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Haye only wants big money fights, he might suffer one for another instant shot, but I don't see him getting one from either brother. Adamek is going to lose to Vitali, so even if haye gets past him, it just puts him on the same level as Adamek had been on.

I think Haye could beat Adamek, Haye does well against guys smaller than him and Adamek doesn't have massive power. Could see Haye stopping Adamek after beating on him for 9-10 rounds.

[Bricks]

Here's mine...

I think he needs to forget about the Klitschkos for the moment and switch focus to Arreola, Adamek and Povetkin. He should fight them in that order and if he beats all three, he'll have proved himself as a first rate heavyweight to me and a return with Waldimir would be fully justified - Vitali will have called it quits by then.

If he were to lose against any of the three, he should announce that he was always a cruiserweight stepping up and thrash himself back down and take on Steve Cunningham, then retire.

Likewise, if he did get to the point of a rematch with Wlad and lose, he should knock it on the head.

i hate to sound like teddy atlas, but more than fights its his attitude that needs an adjustment. He did nothing to earn the shot at Klitchko other than copy what a 46 year old Holyfield did to Valuev except Haye didnt get robbed like Holy......

First thing he needs to get off his lazy arse and have 2 quick fights within 5 months.....he needs to knock out a bum like arreola, wipe the floor with a dimitrenko to get back his respect and be able to look men in the eyes again....than take on a Klitchko again.

[TheCobra]

Here's mine...

I think he needs to forget about the Klitschkos for the moment and switch focus to Arreola, Adamek and Povetkin. He should fight them in that order and if he beats all three, he'll have proved himself as a first rate heavyweight to me and a return with Waldimir would be fully justified - Vitali will have called it quits by then.

If he were to lose against any of the three, he should announce that he was always a cruiserweight stepping up and thrash himself back down and take on Steve Cunningham, then retire.

Likewise, if he did get to the point of a rematch with Wlad and lose, he should knock it on the head.

i hate to sound like teddy atlas, but more than fights its his attitude that needs an adjustment. He did nothing to earn the shot at Klitchko other than copy what a 46 year old Holyfield did to Valuev except Haye didnt get robbed like Holy......

First thing he needs to get off his lazy arse and have 2 quick fights within 5 months.....he needs to knock out a bum like arreola, wipe the floor with a dimitrenko to get back his respect and be able to look men in the eyes again....than take on a Klitchko again.

Agree totally, he needs a fight against someone who is a name, who is half decent like you mentioned and he needs a BIG performance, he needs a KO or a really convincing points win where he dominates someone. He can't go dancing round anyone again.

[TheCobra]

with hayes inactivity it could be 2 or maybe 3 years to get through those fights , making him 34 , if he doesnt retire at 31 as he said then can you really see him going on til 34 ?

Exactly he's not suddenly going to start fighting 3/4 times a year so there's no point giving him a whole load of fights.

Also i don't think it's his legacy that needs saving as that's already secure in terms of becoming the ring Cruiserweight champion and holding 1 of the Heavyweight world title belts and i'm sure history will be kinder to him then the present press. It's his reputation shortime that needs to be 'saved' or at least re-established, your only as good as your last performance so he need's to move on from it as quickly as possible and get another fight sorted out before October.

He's best off making his American Debut on HBO in September/October, there's only 2 heavyweights that HBO would be willing to accept which are Chris Arreola and Bermine Stiverne. I'm pretty sure Arreola will be fighting Wladimir next around November at MSG so he will be out of the picture which just leaves Stiverne who is the perfect choice.

Not only is Stiverne beatable although he is quite possible the hardest hitting heavyweight around but more significantly he is also the holder of the vacant WBC Silver heavyweight title and the official mandatory challenger for the WBC Heavyweight title held by Vitali Klitschko. If Haye was to beat Stiverne then he would become the mandatory challenger himself and get a shot at the WBC belt next year plus not be held ranson to the Klitschko slave contract.

If he was to beat the then 40/41 year old Vitali he could then set up a Rematch with Wlad before October 2012 and find redemption plus retire before he turns 32.

I hope someone from the Haye camp reads this message as this really is the best way forward if David decides to continue.

Never even heard of Stiverne!!! And he has a silver belt!!!

I may not be as well up on the American scene as I used to be, but blimey, they really are giving those things away like christmas cracker toys.

LMAO *imagines finding a WBC silver belt in a xmas cracker. WBC 'SIlver' belt, what on earth is the world coming to.

[mkirkhope]

Exactly he's not suddenly going to start fighting 3/4 times a year so there's no point giving him a whole load of fights.

Also i don't think it's his legacy that needs saving as that's already secure in terms of becoming the ring Cruiserweight champion and holding 1 of the Heavyweight world title belts and i'm sure history will be kinder to him then the present press. It's his reputation shortime that needs to be 'saved' or at least re-established, your only as good as your last performance so he need's to move on from it as quickly as possible and get another fight sorted out before October.

He's best off making his American Debut on HBO in September/October, there's only 2 heavyweights that HBO would be willing to accept which are Chris Arreola and Bermine Stiverne. I'm pretty sure Arreola will be fighting Wladimir next around November at MSG so he will be out of the picture which just leaves Stiverne who is the perfect choice.

Not only is Stiverne beatable although he is quite possible the hardest hitting heavyweight around but more significantly he is also the holder of the vacant WBC Silver heavyweight title and the official mandatory challenger for the WBC Heavyweight title held by Vitali Klitschko. If Haye was to beat Stiverne then he would become the mandatory challenger himself and get a shot at the WBC belt next year plus not be held ranson to the Klitschko slave contract.

If he was to beat the then 40/41 year old Vitali he could then set up a Rematch with Wlad before October 2012 and find redemption plus retire before he turns 32.

I hope someone from the Haye camp reads this message as this really is the best way forward if David decides to continue.

Never even heard of Stiverne!!! And he has a silver belt!!!

I may not be as well up on the American scene as I used to be, but blimey, they really are giving those things away like christmas cracker toys.

LMAO *imagines finding a WBC silver belt in a xmas cracker. WBC 'SIlver' belt, what on earth is the world coming to.

Is Stiverne not the guy that calls himself B:Ware or something cheesy like that?

[exittored]

Never even heard of Stiverne!!! And he has a silver belt!!!

I may not be as well up on the American scene as I used to be, but blimey, they really are giving those things away like christmas cracker toys.

LMAO *imagines finding a WBC silver belt in a xmas cracker. WBC 'SIlver' belt, what on earth is the world coming to.

Is Stiverne not the guy that calls himself B:Ware or something cheesy like that?

Yeah like Dr Steelhammer isn't cheesey...Bermine just happens to be one of the hardest punchers in the whole heavyweight division and better then some of the crapola the Klitschko's have faced over the last few years.

Fighting Stiverne in America on HBO September/October for the WBC Mandatory position is the smartest move Haye can make if he decides to continue boxing.

[tonyevs]

Unless he gets another free shot at the title - I simply do not believe he has the dedication to fight his way into contention.

It was a smash and grab in the heavyweight division for him. He wanted as much money as possible in the least time and effort.
He was very very fortunate there was a valuev there for him to pick up a title from. If it wasn`t for Valuevs size the fight would not of meant a great deal .. it was sold on valuevs size rather than his ability (or lack of) .. it was a circus act fight that stole the publics imagination ... and then let Hayes imagination run riot with him

I have consistently wrote that haye was not an exciting heavyweight since the Valuev trash. Somehow alot of other people just could not see .. even after the sacrificial Ruiz .. and the farcical Audley contest when both guys were too scared to throw anything in the first 2rnds ... of course, Audley took all the critism that night.

He will bleat on and on about his little toe .. and try to tempt Vitali into a match with his belief he is the only heavyweight out there that offers him a great pay day .. maybe he is correct??

But - if he fought any of the Klitschko brothers again, he would put in the same non-performance again.
Haye is simply after the big pay days. He has no concern for his fans at all.

[keithmoonhangover]

1. Knock on Manny Stewart door and say please.
2. Fight Holyfield and Arreola in Vegas.
3. Fight a 41 year old Vitali in a year and a bit.
4. Ask me again after that.

[Finn]

If he retires: Point to his cruiserweight career.

If he doesn't retire: Knock motherfuckers out.

Personally after all the talk and money his fans have spent paying for his fights i think he needs to go out and put it on the line. He owes it to his fans and to boxing to put on one or two shows at HW against reall opposition. Just go out and smash someone up like he did barrett. He's made his money out of us and now he needs to show he actually cared about giving us value for it, and i genuinely believe he did.

I think also its going to be very hard for haye to retire now when he's a bit of a laughing stock - not so much for the loss but for the TOEgate scandal. Thats something that will eat at you for the rest of your life. I know it would me.

Sod the retirement fit 3 / 4 fights in between now and october 2012 and go for glory the moneys already been made, the belts already been lost - its a matter of pride.

We all mock harrison but at least that guy doesnt want to give up on his dream i respect him for that. And hope some of our highly touted british fighters can go and win back some respect.

povetkin + arreola or chambers - smash them up and the title shot is there again 100% thats 2 fights!

[THE MESSIAH]

He will never have a heavyweight legacy.

He raided the division and talked his way into a title fight.

Fraud.

[keithmoonhangover]

He will never have a heavyweight legacy.

He raided the division and talked his way into a title fight.

Fraud.

Is that the best you've got mate?

[THE MESSIAH]

He will never have a heavyweight legacy.

He raided the division and talked his way into a title fight.

Fraud.

Is that the best you've got mate?

It is the truth. I have no more than that, what more does anyone need?

[greg]

..staying humble for a while would be a good start...well, till at least his pinkie toe heals...

[charlieb]

He will never have a heavyweight legacy.

He raided the division and talked his way into a title fight.

Fraud.

Is that the best you've got mate?

It is the truth. I have no more than that, what more does anyone need?

Talked his way into 1 title fight, which he won, and as a WBA champion, he didn't have to talk his way into fighting for another title.

[keithmoonhangover]

He will never have a heavyweight legacy.

He raided the division and talked his way into a title fight.

Fraud.

Is that the best you've got mate?

It is the truth. I have no more than that, what more does anyone need?

He defeated the reigning champion in Valuev.

He defeated his #1 and overdue mandatory contender in Ruiz - he HAD to take that fight or he would have been stripped.

He had an easy defence, like most heavyweight's in history have done.

Then he lost to the best heavyweight in the world.

Doesn't sound like a fraud to me.

[THE MESSIAH]

Is that the best you've got mate?

It is the truth. I have no more than that, what more does anyone need?

He defeated the reigning champion in Valuev.

He defeated his #1 and overdue mandatory contender in Ruiz - he HAD to take that fight or he would have been stripped.

He had an easy defence, like most heavyweight's in history have done.

Then he lost to the best heavyweight in the world.

Doesn't sound like a fraud to me.

Valuev in the eyes of most won the fight. But Ruiz was out f the ring for years and fought an 8 rounder asagisnt a journeyman as a warm up, DK Special!

Audley was an interesting fight, but overall it's a poor heavyweight resume .

[keithmoonhangover]

It is the truth. I have no more than that, what more does anyone need?

He defeated the reigning champion in Valuev.

He defeated his #1 and overdue mandatory contender in Ruiz - he HAD to take that fight or he would have been stripped.

He had an easy defence, like most heavyweight's in history have done.

Then he lost to the best heavyweight in the world.

Doesn't sound like a fraud to me.

Valuev in the eyes of most won the fight. But Ruiz was out f the ring for years and fought an 8 rounder asagisnt a journeyman as a warm up, DK Special!

Audley was an interesting fight, but overall it's a poor heavyweight resume .

The judges thought Haye beat Valuev and that's all that matters.

As I said, he HAD to fight Ruiz.

You're not a Haye fan clearly.

[Giancarlo]

Is that the best you've got mate?

It is the truth. I have no more than that, what more does anyone need?

He defeated the reigning champion in Valuev.

He defeated his #1 and overdue mandatory contender in Ruiz - he HAD to take that fight or he would have been stripped.

He had an easy defence, like most heavyweight's in history have done.

Then he lost to the best heavyweight in the world.

Doesn't sound like a fraud to me.

Awesome spin, Keith.

Where would you rank the great man as heavyweight champion?

In between Ali and Louis?

[keithmoonhangover]

It is the truth. I have no more than that, what more does anyone need?

He defeated the reigning champion in Valuev.

He defeated his #1 and overdue mandatory contender in Ruiz - he HAD to take that fight or he would have been stripped.

He had an easy defence, like most heavyweight's in history have done.

Then he lost to the best heavyweight in the world.

Doesn't sound like a fraud to me.

Awesome spin, Keith.

Where would you rank the great man as heavyweight champion?

In between Ali and Louis?

The fight against Harrison was a disgrace. Make no mistake about that. But it was no worse than Bowe fighting Ferguson and Dokes.