Could Riddick Bowe have been the best heavyweight ever?

[davidas]

Lewis would have beat him everyday of the week imo

[THE MESSIAH]

He slottes inot the pros better than Lewis. If he fiught Lewis early in Lewis' career he would beat him. Later Lennox has his number.

BOWE was the best infifhter I have seen at heavy! Serious jab, but dedication and pies finished him.

[NazNaci1]

No.

Talented, big and powerful but the the potential to be the Greatest?

Past Champions more than matched him most departments. His taunting of Lewis, constantly and idle threats then avoiding the fight, at all costs really goes against him.

If you base it off his fights with Holyfield, then maybe.

Bar his fights with Holyfiled, his record is not that great. Dokes, Ferguson, (older) Tubbs, who in my opinion ran him very, very close, to name a few.

Bad loss at the Olympics, reluctance to fight Lewis, won the title but pitiful defences and abject performances towards the end of his career don't really light him up as a candidate, in my opinion.

[Craig14]

No - Bowe wasn't even the best Heavyweight of his generation. Far too lazy, but agree he was very talented and he should of achieved so much more.

[deadpan]

No. With spangly bells on.

He was lucky to get past a barely bothered Tony Tubbs.

[binipop]

I think Bowe's reluctance to fight Lennox tarnished both fighters reputations initially. Granted Lennox seems to get the respect he deserves now for cleaning up the division but for a long time there seemed to be a bit of a consensus that Lewis had never had a great rival to bring the best out of him, who would have made him fight for 12 rounds (as opposed to the "coasting" which Lennox could sometimes slip into) and that Bowe would have been the fighter to do that.

Also, I remember Colin Hart named his top 10 Heavyweights of all time in The Sun newspaper and Bowe was number 6!

[JediKnight]

I'm sorry I forgot this guy even existed in heavyweight boxing. Lewis would have wrecked him if Harland David "Colonel" Sanders hadn't got there earlier.

[exittored]

I think Bowe's reluctance to fight Lennox tarnished both fighters reputations initially. Granted Lennox seems to get the respect he deserves now for cleaning up the division but for a long time there seemed to be a bit of a consensus that Lewis had never had a great rival to bring the best out of him, who would have made him fight for 12 rounds (as opposed to the "coasting" which Lennox could sometimes slip into) and that Bowe would have been the fighter to do that.

Also, I remember Colin Hart named his top 10 Heavyweights of all time in The Sun newspaper and Bowe was number 6!

I wouldn't say the greatest but the version of Bowe that beat Evander first fight was bloody awesome and after all he only ever lost one fight that he may have won if it wasn't for 'Fan Man' who gave Evander a much needed breather in their rematch and his second wind in the fight.

Also this whole 'dodging' Lewis thing is slightly over-played. I just think his team wanted to make a few easy defences first rather then go straight from Holyfield to Lewis which is understandable from a economic point of view but also from a career one too as Bowe was still a pretty young guy at 23/24 so it made sense not to put in him with Lennox straight away in a pick them fight..

His team did want to make a fight with Lewis though after he lost the second fight with Holyfield but i don't think Frank accepted the 50-50 terms of the deal, i guess if he comes on here he can explain it better.

[IRLangmaid25]

I know it sometimes like a cliche when I say it but all the raw ingredients where there for him to be an all time great. He was built like a Super Heavyweight standing at 6ft 5 with an 81 inch reach and at his peak between 1992-1996 weighing in between 16 stone 11 and a career high 18 stone in his second fight with Andrew Golota, when Golota could not help himself hammering away at Bowe's family silver. he also had very good handspeed, KO power fought very well on the inside for a big man. However did not fight Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson mainly because Tyson was in the nick for the rape of Desiree Washington and possibly he regarded Tyson as too dangerous and Lewis because he knew that Lewis might KO him again like he did in the Olympics combined with a penchant for blowing up in between fights did not help his cause.

[stujones]

My take on the fan man incident, although its been a while since I saw it was that it benefited Bowe more than Holyfield.

I think Lewis would have been all wrong for him stylistically at any point of their careers. Whilst I think certain heavyweights in their prime would have given Lewis problems - I just never thought Bowe would. For me, Lewis was faster and significantly bigger than most of the decent heavyweights Bowe faced.

Having said that though, compare Bowe's workrate vs Holyfield and Lewis' vs the same guy then a big case could be made.

[Jeff Thomas]

No - the whole package is required, he lacked the most important ingredient

[Controversial]

No. He was a good fighter but Holyfield aside, he fought awful competition. World title fights against

Michael Dokes
Jesse Ferguson
Herbie Hide
Jorge Gonzalez

Not forgetting he was being pummelled by Golota in both fights before winning disqualification.

Too many journeymen and past it fighters for me, not enough decent opposition

[ed robinson]

Personally, I think the night he first beat Holyfield he would have given anyone in history a very serious test. However, the mental aspects of the game are, if anything, even more crucial than the physical. It's like when people talk about what Kirklaind Laing could have achieved. 'The gifted one' had a mental flaw that was just as tangible as a physical one. What if Floyd Patterson was a decent size and had a granite chin? He wasn't and he didn't. It's just the same for the mental aspects of a fighter's make up. Confidence, discipline, hunger, bravery, they are real factors in how good a boxer is. Bowe was great that night against Evander but not, judged on his entire career, a great fighter.

[Bricks]

(I know he was American and there is a boxers of the past section but I'd like the British opinion)

Bomber mentioned Bowe in Captain Hook's article and Glyn subsequently highlighted his recognition of Bowe's ability. And with this being a week of heavyweight discussion, I thought this was worth bringing up.

I have always thought Bowe had all the tools to go down as the greatest heavyweight in history. His lack of drive and self-discipline not to mention his mental frailties prevented him from reaching the ultimate pinnacle of personal performance. Bowe's underachieving is one of my biggest boxing disappointments.

Is the general consensus similar or not?

no chance. You can't say bowe may have had the tools to be the greatest heavyweight in history "if only he had drive and self discipline and mental strength to reach the pinnacle".........it's like saying primo carnera could have been the best heavyweight pre war if he had a chin,power and could fight.......

Bowe was a mentally tough man as he showed the way he fought back to beat the foul pole golota twice and refused to give in. Its a good question but the answer is a clear no. He wasnt in the league of the 70s guys or really tyson and lewis at their best. But its a good thread.

[Craig14]

(I know he was American and there is a boxers of the past section but I'd like the British opinion)

Bomber mentioned Bowe in Captain Hook's article and Glyn subsequently highlighted his recognition of Bowe's ability. And with this being a week of heavyweight discussion, I thought this was worth bringing up.

I have always thought Bowe had all the tools to go down as the greatest heavyweight in history. His lack of drive and self-discipline not to mention his mental frailties prevented him from reaching the ultimate pinnacle of personal performance. Bowe's underachieving is one of my biggest boxing disappointments.

Is the general consensus similar or not?

no chance. You can't say bowe may have had the tools to be the greatest heavyweight in history "if only he had drive and self discipline and mental strength to reach the pinnacle".........it's like saying primo carnera could have been the best heavyweight pre war if he had a chin,power and could fight.......

Bowe was a mentally tough man as he showed the way he fought back to beat the foul pole golota twice and refused to give in. Its a good question but the answer is a clear no. He wasnt in the league of the 70s guys or really tyson and lewis at their best. But its a good thread.

Bowe wasn't so mentally tough when he lasted only 11 days in the marines.

[ed robinson]

Yid14, That's far too simplistic! Like saying that an artist isn't intelligent because he can't do mathematics or that a sprinter isn't fit because he can't run a marathon.

[Craig14]

Yid14, That's far too simplistic! Like saying that an artist isn't intelligent because he can't do mathematics or that a sprinter isn't fit because he can't run a marathon.

Well he wanted out after day one, I think it shows alack of mental toughness. And I'd be very suprised if a sprinter couldn't do a marathon, a friend smokes 40 aday and drinks like a fish and he completed one before you say anything I know it was just an example.

[Controversial]

Personally, I think the night he first beat Holyfield he would have given anyone in history a very serious test.

I agree with what you say about Bowe but personally his fight against Holyfield looked great because Holyfield tried to slug it with Bowe (30lbs heavier). Bowe was a big guy and had hast hands, anyone who stood in front of him was in for a hard fight, Holyfield too brave for his own good.

[ed robinson]

Yid14, talking of marines, there are plenty of incredibly brave and disciplined soldiers who struggle to hold down a civvy job. It's a different mind set. As a boxer Bowe was the boss - as a marine the rules were different. Many former soldiers find it difficult to motivate themselves in menial day jobs. In the same way many former boxers can't motivate themselves to do any exercise because they were paid a lot of money and had such huge motivation, including fear and ego, to train when they were competing. I think that Bowe joined the marines because he was desperately looking for something and then, as soon as he started, he knew he'd made a mistake. If you told me to starve myself for a day I wouldn't, it doesn't necessarily show a lack of mental toughness, just a lack of motivation. Put a gun to my head and I'll go hungry as long as you want!

[stujones]

Bowe had all the physical gifts, more importantly he could fight on the inside and had a jab rather than a prod but throwing his name up there based on one night against Holyfield is just as silly as Tyson fans who refuse to actually look at the evidence of his career.

On the basis of one fight against Holyfield it would be a “Yes” (he started to physical fade after that one due to indiscipline). On the evidence of his actual career it would be a big, fat “No”.

I’m a big fan of Riddick but he had problems holding it together earlier in his career, IE the Tillery DQ win, and also had problems keeping his cool late in his career. There’s every indication that he would have crumbled under pressure and just had one of those nights against Holyfield. He blew up once too often inside and outside the ring. Lewis would have mentally and then physically destroyed in after a tough fight.

As for fan man, I think Bowe was winning the fight up to that point. How can anyone say it impacted on Holyfield more when the guy landed on Riddick’s pregnant wife? Highly unlikely that Holyfield was troubled by this, unless of course he secretly knew that the kid was his, I wouldn’t put that past ‘Make mine a paternity test’ Evander.

I’d love to make a case for Breland as an ATG and could probably do so if I used selected highlights from his career, but it is not the done thing.

Plus Rock Newman would have been a liability had Bowe faced Lewis.

Just my personal take and I aint seen the fight in years. I thought Holyfield was winning at the time of the incident and certainly had momentum. I also think it wasn't Holyfield who cut corners in training or who blew up between bouts and could have done with a break. Holyfield, for much of his career, seem to take a few rounds to get going.

Completely agree on your stance with Bowe being not considered an ATG. I know what your saying about Tyson also, I don't agree as you know but I know what your saying - but Bowe's peak was even shorter.

[Twinkle Toes]

his fight against Holyfield looked great because Holyfield tried to slug it with Bowe (30lbs heavier). Bowe was a big guy and had hast hands, anyone who stood in front of him was in for a hard fight, Holyfield too brave for his own good.

Exactly, Holyfield was there right in front of Bowe, and even with the huge advantages that Bowe possessed he still made heavy work of it.

If holy would have tried to slug it out with Lewis in the same manner, I suspect it would have been over inside 3 rounds. Bowe is put on to higher a pedestal for me, and although he had some nice attributes he shouldn't be gracing any greatest top 10 or even top 15 imo.

As for greatest ever....

[fasteddie]

in my opinion i think bowe COULD of gone on to be a top 5 heavyweight if he would of took care of himself after the first holyfield fight but he chose to pile the pounds on and let himself go abit. the fight that should of happened was bowe vs lewis in 92-93 when they were both young and fresh.

[milpool]

There's no doubting that Riddick Bowe was a wasted talent. However he was a far better actor than Holyfield based on their respective performances on the Fresh Prince of Bel Air!

[mrbassie]

No, too many defensive holes and not enough discipline. Put it this way, although he beat Holyfield twice and n stopped him, I still think of Holyfield as the better fighter. I think Tyson would have beaten Bowe, he was too easy to hit and although he had a good chin, he wasn't McCall. Lewis would have beaten him as a pro too, he'd be on the end of the jab all night.

[rockyrandall2]

Probably not the best, but the Bowe that beat Holyfield in the 1st fight would have taken some beating by anyone. Sadly, he ate his way out of greatness and by the time he fought Golota, was shot to pieces, mentally and physically despite getting his weight down. A real shame because after that 1st Holyfield fight I genuinly thought he had all the tools and longevity beckoned.