Evander Holyfield

[Jon Saxon]

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

But Doug Jones did! lol your a funny guy Keith, your arguing against yourself, I'm an Ali fan.

Holy just had more in the bag and if you know boxing you will know I'm right.

Unless you are in denial?

He didn't fight Jones in his prime.[/quote]


But he fought Cooper in it, just before the great Liston bout were on about.

Lol your a trier i will give you that!

[Matt W]

No mate, he did everything right. THere is no rule to say that you have to box a certain way.

There is a rule book. Some tear it up others adhere.

.

Oh Keith you just got owned lol,

No holds barred boxing?? lol

At risk of being really pedantic:

Durability, chin and will to win aren't skills, they are attributes. Definition of skill in sport: "a special ability acquired through training. Skill acquisition involves learning to execute movements with the minimum effort to achieve predetermined effects. It is a complex process demanding high levels of sensory perception, integration within the central nervous system, and coordination of different muscle groups."

Speed also isn't a skill but skilled, efficient movement is a factor in speed of movement.

As far as the rule book, there are fundamentals of technique but ultimatly the goal of using a technique is to achieve a desired outcome i.e. to hit your opponent and not get hit. If you are successfully doing that then you are skilled, whether you are 'technically correct' or not.

[THE MESSIAH]

There is a rule book. Some tear it up others adhere.

.

Oh Keith you just got owned lol,

No holds barred boxing?? lol

At risk of being really pedantic:

Durability, chin and will to win aren't skills, they are attributes. Definition of skill in sport: "a special ability acquired through training. Skill acquisition involves learning to execute movements with the minimum effort to achieve predetermined effects. It is a complex process demanding high levels of sensory perception, integration within the central nervous system, and coordination of different muscle groups."

Speed also isn't a skill but skilled, efficient movement is a factor in speed of movement.

As far as the rule book, there are fundamentals of technique but ultimatly the goal of using a technique is to achieve a desired outcome i.e. to hit your opponent and not get hit. If you are successfully doing that then you are skilled, whether you are 'technically correct' or not.

Durability etc were put here to be looked upon as assets.

Imo, Holyfield was a classicly skilled boxer and gets my vote.

[keithmoonhangover]

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

But Doug Jones did! lol your a funny guy Keith, your arguing against yourself, I'm an Ali fan.

Holy just had more in the bag and if you know boxing you will know I'm right.

Unless you are in denial?

He didn't fight Jones in his prime.[/quote]


But he fought Cooper in it, just before the great Liston bout were on about.

Lol your a trier i will give you that![/quote]

He wasn't in his prime against Cooper. He learned a vital lesson in that fight.

[Jon Saxon]

There is a rule book. Some tear it up others adhere.

.

Oh Keith you just got owned lol,

No holds barred boxing?? lol

At risk of being really pedantic:

Durability, chin and will to win aren't skills, they are attributes. Definition of skill in sport: "a special ability acquired through training. Skill acquisition involves learning to execute movements with the minimum effort to achieve predetermined effects. It is a complex process demanding high levels of sensory perception, integration within the central nervous system, and coordination of different muscle groups."

Speed also isn't a skill but skilled, efficient movement is a factor in speed of movement.

As far as the rule book, there are fundamentals of technique but ultimatly the goal of using a technique is to achieve a desired outcome i.e. to hit your opponent and not get hit. If you are successfully doing that then you are skilled, whether you are 'technically correct' or not.

I agree BUT if you do it out with the rules, say an open glove jab then you are breaking the rules (Naz used to get away with this)
And of course Roy Jones was the best in history not to use traditional rules.
He was in effect 'better than boxing'

[Jon Saxon]

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

But Doug Jones did! lol your a funny guy Keith, your arguing against yourself, I'm an Ali fan.

Holy just had more in the bag and if you know boxing you will know I'm right.

Unless you are in denial?

He didn't fight Jones in his prime.[/quote]


But he fought Cooper in it, just before the great Liston bout were on about.

Lol your a trier i will give you that![/quote]

He wasn't in his prime against Cooper. He learned a vital lesson in that fight.[/quote]

No he didnt, Joe Frazer will testify to that.

[Jon Saxon]

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

But Doug Jones did! lol your a funny guy Keith, your arguing against yourself, I'm an Ali fan.

Holy just had more in the bag and if you know boxing you will know I'm right.

Unless you are in denial?

He didn't fight Jones in his prime.[/quote]


But he fought Cooper in it, just before the great Liston bout were on about.

Lol your a trier i will give you that![/quote]

He wasn't in his prime against Cooper. He learned a vital lesson in that fight.[/quote]


But hey Keith 10/10 for trying mate.

BTW the left the Shavers caught him with would have finished most heavys I think.

Ali was the fuking man!

[keithmoonhangover]

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

But Doug Jones did! lol your a funny guy Keith, your arguing against yourself, I'm an Ali fan.

Holy just had more in the bag and if you know boxing you will know I'm right.

Unless you are in denial?

He didn't fight Jones in his prime.[/quote]


But he fought Cooper in it, just before the great Liston bout were on about.

Lol your a trier i will give you that![/quote]

He wasn't in his prime against Cooper. He learned a vital lesson in that fight.[/quote]

No he didnt, Joe Frazer will testify to that.[/quote]

When he fought Frazier his was not in his prime and if you're as smart as you make out, you'll already know that.

[NazNaci1]

Ali matched Holyfield in most attributes, and surpassed him him a few others, same for Louis.

The only thing Holyfield had above these 2 was combinations (Ali) and footspeed (Louis).

Ali and Louis both had better a defence, Ali, in an unorthadox fashion and sometimes choose to take punchers from the very biggest hitters in history and Louis exhibiting a more classic style, relying on fast, powerful & accurate (unsurpassed imo) combinations.

But hey, its all about opinions, so.....

PS I take your point about 8 punch combo's etc but Holy would usually land with about 2 punches. Louis would throw 2-3 punch combo. but they would be dynamite, liable to knock you down or out. His triple left hook vs Baer was just amazing. I don't see Holyfield doing that and with that power.

Ali threw the combinations faster and was more accurate, when he did let them go, however Holyfield punched in combination, with more frequency and less accuracy. I definitely do not accept that, for accuracy, Holyfield was a match for these 2, though.

PPS It would be interesting to read Ezzard's comments as that guy is GOD

[THE MESSIAH]

Holyfield is ahead in the POLL.

18
17
4

[keithmoonhangover]

Holyfield is ahead in the POLL.

18
17
4

Have you and Saxon got 16 mates?

[THE MESSIAH]

Holyfield is ahead in the POLL.

18
17
4

Have you and Saxon got 16 mates?

The boxing fans have spoken.

[NazNaci1]

The boxing fans have spoken.

Maybe so, but its still amazing when someone can place Holyfield above the likes of Joe Louie and Muhammed Ali, skillset or otherwise....

Not a dig, just puzzling.

Just sayin'

[Bennyblanco]

What fight would you say holyfields best performance has been?

[JDC]

You've posted conflicting questions

[THE MESSIAH]

You've posted conflicting questions

THREAD TITLE......HAS THERE EVER BEEN A BETTER HEAVYWEIGHT............
SKILL WISE.

POLL QUESTION

BEST SKILLED HEAVYWEIGHT EVER - IS HE?

[THE MESSIAH]

The boxing fans have spoken.

Maybe so, but its still amazing when someone can place Holyfield above the likes of Joe Louie and Muhammed Ali, skillset or otherwise....

Not a dig, just puzzling.

Just sayin'

Not puzzling to me. Joe Louie and Ali are great, but Holyfield is also.

Louie Vs Bowe? Louie Vs Tyson? Lennox Vs Ali? Louie Vs Lewis? Ali vs the 3? ALi vs Tyson

HOLYFIELD IS A GREAT.

[NazNaci1]

Yes Holyfield is a great HW, but has there been a better HW? Which is the question you ask.

In my opinion, yes, including skillset.

Obviously you don't agree, which is your right.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Id have to concur - I cannot think of anyone in the history of the division who had the skillset of Holyfield - the guy had it all, great movement, great handspeed, combinations, granite chin, incredible will to win, the only thing he lacked a little was power, but he was no powder puff puncher.

[THE MESSIAH]

Id have to concur - I cannot think of anyone in the history of the division who had the skillset of Holyfield - the guy had it all, great movement, great handspeed, combinations, granite chin, incredible will to win, the only thing he lacked a little was power, but he was no powder puff puncher.

[Duran Fan]

I can't watch the clip, because I'm at work.

Don't insult Larry Holmes by saying that Holyfield outjabbed him. Prime for prime, Larry would have outjabbed Evander for 15 rounds with ease.

'Bum of the month' was created for Louis, you are correct.

If you're talking about Holyfield in his prime, then you're talking about his first reign at heavyweight. His opponents were a fat demotivated Douglas, a Foreman that was 17 years past his prime, the Bert Cooper that hurt Holyfield, but had only lasted 2 rounds with Foreman and Bowe, then a Larry Holmes that was 10 years past his prime.

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

Actualy Ali did get rocked by Cooper.

The most skilled HW without doubt is: Joe Louis

[tonyevs]

Ali vs Holyfield - skills.

SPEED. Ali
JAB. Ali
HOOK. Holyfield
FOOTWORK. Ali
CHIN. Ali
DURABILITY. Ali
12/15 ROUND PACE. Ali
COMBINATIONS Holyfield
WILL TO WIN. Ali

Prime vs Prime.

I`m beginning to think you really do have those 100 boxing hardbacks ... to which I will add. Stop reading then asap - and start looking at the old fight films of these old guys ... youtube is your friend

[jamesmcdonnell]

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

Actualy Ali did get rocked by Cooper.

The most skilled HW without doubt is: Joe Louis

Louis had no footwork - he was so flat footed. He generated tremendous power as a result, but could also be hit quite easily as he moved so little.

[THE MESSIAH]

I thinnk people really need to go and view the fighters, if you do you will see that Holyfield wins hands down.

Also, remember Holyfield fought against huge skilled men in Bowe and Lewis..

Holyfield is the most skilled heavy of all time..Technical skills.

JOE LOUIS? Not even close.

[NazNaci1]

Debating with you is pretty pointless, if you believe Holyfield was the best, skilled HW ever.

I know I don't, and I have watched Holyfield since his Olympic bronze and your poll seems to suggest that a lot of people don't either.

Insisting your right, rather than expressing an opinion, doesn't actually mean you are right.