Haye should learn lessons from his humbling..

[fasteddie]

the thing that gets me about this whole toe issue is that he couldnt put weight into a punch right? But he could run the equivelant of a half marathon to get away from wlad for 12 rounds? haye you to man up you fag boxing is about hitting and not getting hit i know this but when you say its gonna be a massacre or its gonna be brutal then you run you little ass off for 12 rounds the people around the world are laughing at you and thinking all us brits are big mouthed bitches.. i aint no bitch so i would say you should fight wlad for free next time seems as though you ripped us off with your david gay performance.

[Final round]

'Haye didn't fight badly and it was a lot closer than the judges had it.
Haye's recieved too much criticism- it's as if people over here wanted to him to do something stupid so he would get knocked out' - Evander Holyfield

[Matt W]

'Haye didn't fight badly and it was a lot closer than the judges had it.
Haye's recieved too much criticism- it's as if people over here wanted to him to do something stupid so he would get knocked out' - Evander Holyfield

By really going for it Haye would have risked being KOd but it was the only way he was going to win. I thought Haye was the type who would put it on the line if that was what was needed to win. Fairly or unfairly I was disappointed that he didn't show that against Wlad.

And I disagree that it was closer than the scorecards had it, Haye didn't do enough to win more than a handful of rounds.

[bad mamma jamma]

Nice work, Hooky. Never apologise, never explain.

bit pretentious? why never explain? is there some sort of journo's guild on here?

i liked the piece captain hook wrote but it wasnt a beatdown nor a clinic. wlad used his presence to scare haye, which he did, thus wlad only had to use the 1-2 sparingly. both landed few punches per round.

classic beatdowns would include Hagler v Hearns, Chavez v Rosario etc. classic clinics could include fights such as Calzaghe v Lacy, Leonard v Hagler. dont think haye v wlad falls in either catagory to be honest.

Pretentious? Dasein? And I'm not a journalist. Hooky is a bona fide journo.

Only kidding, it was a humorous comment towards a guy I've known for a while, clearly. I only posted because I saw the atypical 'I stopped reading after...' (which wasn't by you) and this is always a really annoying comment to read when you take the time to write something and put it out there. Fair enough if people disagree with Hooky but at least read the full thing.

You think the fight wasn't a clinic? I don't know, there were a lot of jabs.

As for Hagler-Leonard, Marvin actually looked slower in the Mugabi fight. His schedule went from 2-3 per year to 1 and Gil Clancy made note in the HBO build up that Leonard may actually benefit from this as Ray had come back from a break once before, it went slightly wrong so he'd know how to adjust this whereas Marvin had gone from being very busy as a contender, to the titlist schedule and was now very much slowing down. I believe he had a point.

Plus Hagler was much slower as a champion than he had been in his physical prime, he had better movement in fights with Briscoe and his Philly rematches but failed to take the title from Vito and vowed to be more aggressive in his next shot. He then showed this aggressive approach as champion but I feel he sacrificed a few other things to become the 'destruct and destroy' Hagler we saw during his years of rule.

Similar to Sonny Liston, Hagler was arguably a better all rounder in contention but a stronger fighter as a champion due to the fact he didn't want anyone to steal it from him and was incredibly paranoid about going the distance. Who can blame him, he won the Duran fight fairly but was behind going into the old championship distance so his paranoia had a basis.

ok bruv, point taken. with hagler although i said he looked slower than vs mugabi, having thought about it, it was leonard's speed that made him look like he had slowed down. i wasnt around for hagler's fights pre- Vito so cannot comment on how he changed his style after becoming champ..but he certainly was paranoid about being robbed so i go with your assessment.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Let King Geedorah deal with Bad Mamma Jamma, sure he's typing away now in response....

Close and controversial? Yes.

Classic clinic? Hardly.

I've watched the Leonard Hagler fight a few times recently, and actually I didnt even think it was close. I thought Leonard won it easily, there should never have been any controversy. At the time I felt differently, but that was partly I think because I loved Hagler and hated leonard.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Can't really understand how the author of this piece can view the fight as a 'one-sided beatdown'. Jesus, many of the rounds were close, Haye wasn't knocked down and probably was less marked up than Wlad by the end. He clearly lost, but this was only a 'humbling' in context with the let-down following his promises pre-fight, which was all just promoting the contest anyway.

[palooka]

Wlad imposed himself from the first moments and David really didn't argue the point. Wlad didn't know with certainty what Haye would do but he came in and boxed his best fight.

Haye didn't give it a real go and whether it's down to a poorly toe or not he didn't do what he said he would. Haye knew how tall and effective Wlad was before the bout; fair play, he's made a lot of money out of it but I did expect a bit of a better go for my £15.

Talk of a rematch is plain stupid and Vitali would wreck Haye on that showing.

I can't see the (clear) defeat changing Haye for the better, (less conceited, more humble etc).

[jamesmcdonnell]

Can't really understand how the author of this piece can view the fight as a 'one-sided beatdown'. Jesus, many of the rounds were close, Haye wasn't knocked down and probably was less marked up than Wlad by the end. He clearly lost, but this was only a 'humbling' in context with the let-down following his promises pre-fight, which was all just promoting the contest anyway.

Yes I think the word 'beatdown' was a little ill-advised. Drubbing perhaps, humbling certainly, but beatdown implies he got bashed up, which he didnt.

[Captain Hook]

Hagler / Leonard, was a close fight how
can it be a clinic.

was it close? for some yes, for others it was quite clear who won. wasnt leonard's display a clinical exhibition as to how to diffuse a pressure fighter? surely i cannot be alone in thinking this?

I can take constructive criticism all day long mate, no need for the insults....

I totally disagree and can't see how Hagler v SRL was a clinic...a lot of people have Hagler winning that fight. I think SRL won, but a clinic? Nah....too close.

[Asterix]

I stopped reading after 'one-sided beatdown'.

Same here. Ridiculous article.

[Captain Hook]

bit pretentious? why never explain? is there some sort of journo's guild on here?

i liked the piece captain hook wrote but it wasnt a beatdown nor a clinic. wlad used his presence to scare haye, which he did, thus wlad only had to use the 1-2 sparingly. both landed few punches per round.

classic beatdowns would include Hagler v Hearns, Chavez v Rosario etc. classic clinics could include fights such as Calzaghe v Lacy, Leonard v Hagler. dont think haye v wlad falls in either catagory to be honest.

Leonard v Hagler is a "classic clinic" ??????????

Have there ever been a more mis-informed bunch posting on this fecking website?!

Have your own opinion by all means, I for one welcome it, but jeez...

you are also a cheeky pudendum for saying someone with a difference of opinion to you is mis-informed..you seem to react poorly to critique and people with a difference of opinion - you related to smigga?

the way leonard made hagler come to him, unload on his arms and gloves, and then fire away with clusters of accurate shots sure was a clinic,
and by the way, i originally said i liked your piece, i just had an issue with one bit of it...fer fks sake

PS Ta :) x

[Captain Hook]

Can't really understand how the author of this piece can view the fight as a 'one-sided beatdown'. Jesus, many of the rounds were close, Haye wasn't knocked down and probably was less marked up than Wlad by the end. He clearly lost, but this was only a 'humbling' in context with the let-down following his promises pre-fight, which was all just promoting the contest anyway.

Opinions are like arseholes..... :)

[Captain Hook]

I stopped reading after 'one-sided beatdown'.

Same here. Ridiculous article.

Thanks Asterix.....care to expand?

We're all entitled to an opinion boys...feel free to do a comment on an upcoming fight (in your own time, and for free) and email it to Boxrec. I'm sure they'd welcome any extra copy.

Ta for the feedback

[dondada]

I stopped reading after 'one-sided beatdown'.

Same here. Ridiculous article.

How do you know it was a ridiculous article if you stopped reading after the opening sentence? 8)

Yes, new writers always welcome...especially those who can do soooo much better than Captain Hook, because I don't have too many of those at the moment.

Re 'beatdown'...my view, editorially, is that one must let writers express themselves and their opinion. I would only change something which was clearly inaccurate; given the scorecards, one could make a case for it, I suppose. I wouldn't have used it but wasn't going to change it.

I did have to change a piece recently when someone wrote that El Maachi 'dominated' Colin Lynes, or some such observation, which was clearly not the case.

[mickey1975]

Well Haye has lost a fan in me. After losing about £300 through his back farce and then sat piss wet through in Hamburg, i have had enough.

[Syntax Error]

Largely a good article, especially the bit about him making Lennox Lewis wait around like a hospital porter.

I do take issue with the one sided beat down bit though.

Wladimir won comfortably; of that there is no doubt, but it was not a one sided beat down: Herol Graham -v- Rod Douglas, that was a one sided beat down, not Klitschko -v- Haye.

I really hope Haye learns from his conduct post fight.

He couldn't wait to reveal his little toe & it was truly pathetic.

For a second, I thought Emmanuel Steward had switched sides & told Haye to do that, as that excuse was right out the, "someone massaged Tommy's legs" book of pathetic excuses.

[Captain Hook]

Cheers Ian, appreciated...yours is a thankless task.

For the record, I can see the argument that the word "beatdown" was a little strong, but I'll stick by it.

For my money Haye never looked like switching up a gear, never had Wlad in trouble, stuck rigidly to a gameplan that was not working (while Wlad's did to perfection) and failed to make any real dent in the Ukrainian or adapt to the way the fight was going.

Dancing in and out was not working; getting on his bike proved fruitless. Wlad's jab was too quick. Haye's speed was the only weapon he showed us, though in fairness he took some big shots well

Wlad looked fantastic, Haye looked forlorn and lay the blame at his own feet...quite literally.

He was supposed to hammer Wlad and knock him out. He didn't even bite the bullet at any point and take a few to land a few, he was as stubborn as a mule.

For me it was a very one-sided fight......

All opinions gratefully received, but words like "ridiculous" are a little wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned.

[Counter-puncher]

As for Hagler-Leonard, Marvin actually looked slower in the Mugabi fight. His schedule went from 2-3 per year to 1 and Gil Clancy made note in the HBO build up that Leonard may actually benefit from this as Ray had come back from a break once before, it went slightly wrong so he'd know how to adjust this whereas Marvin had gone from being very busy as a contender, to the titlist schedule and was now very much slowing down. I believe he had a point.

Plus Hagler was much slower as a champion than he had been in his physical prime, he had better movement in fights with Briscoe and his Philly rematches .

yes.

[Asterix]

I stopped reading after 'one-sided beatdown'.

Same here. Ridiculous article.

Thanks Asterix.....care to expand?

We're all entitled to an opinion boys...feel free to do a comment on an upcoming fight (in your own time, and for free) and email it to Boxrec. I'm sure they'd welcome any extra copy.

Ta for the feedback

Haye wasn't beaten down. His face looked pretty good after the fight. Certainly no worse than Wlad's. What I read of your article reminded me of the BoxingNews24 website.

I'm not a journalist, and I don't wish to be one, so I won't be sending anything in. I can critique boxers without having to join in, as well.

[dondada]

What I read of your article reminded me of the BoxingNews24 website.

In terms of it having a polemical style, perhaps.

I've only really read The Gilf on there; if he's an accurate reflection of the rest then there's no comparison in terms of writing quality.

What I'm trying to say is, look, it's not shite. You might disagree with the whole shebang but it isn't poorly written.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Cheers Ian, appreciated...yours is a thankless task.

For the record, I can see the argument that the word "beatdown" was a little strong, but I'll stick by it.

For my money Haye never looked like switching up a gear, never had Wlad in trouble, stuck rigidly to a gameplan that was not working (while Wlad's did to perfection) and failed to make any real dent in the Ukrainian or adapt to the way the fight was going.

Dancing in and out was not working; getting on his bike proved fruitless. Wlad's jab was too quick. Haye's speed was the only weapon he showed us, though in fairness he took some big shots well

Wlad looked fantastic, Haye looked forlorn and lay the blame at his own feet...quite literally.

He was supposed to hammer Wlad and knock him out. He didn't even bite the bullet at any point and take a few to land a few, he was as stubborn as a mule.

For me it was a very one-sided fight......

All opinions gratefully received, but words like "ridiculous" are a little wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned.

Agree with all of that. Personally I'd have used 'outclassed' more than 'beaten down' but we're getting into semantics here.

What is beyond doubt is that Wlad won without having to leave his comfort zone at any stage.

[Captain Hook]

Same here. Ridiculous article.

Thanks Asterix.....care to expand?

We're all entitled to an opinion boys...feel free to do a comment on an upcoming fight (in your own time, and for free) and email it to Boxrec. I'm sure they'd welcome any extra copy.

Ta for the feedback

Haye wasn't beaten down. His face looked pretty good after the fight. Certainly no worse than Wlad's. What I read of your article reminded me of the BoxingNews24 website.

I'm not a journalist, and I don't wish to be one, so I won't be sending anything in. I can critique boxers without having to join in, as well.

"Haye wasn't beaten down"...IN YOUR OPINION

In mine he was, no need for the sly digs....I am a news and business journalist who writes about boxing purely for the love of the sport. No better or worse than anyone else, just my opinion and comment after the fight.

[Captain Hook]

Cheers Ian, appreciated...yours is a thankless task.

For the record, I can see the argument that the word "beatdown" was a little strong, but I'll stick by it.

For my money Haye never looked like switching up a gear, never had Wlad in trouble, stuck rigidly to a gameplan that was not working (while Wlad's did to perfection) and failed to make any real dent in the Ukrainian or adapt to the way the fight was going.

Dancing in and out was not working; getting on his bike proved fruitless. Wlad's jab was too quick. Haye's speed was the only weapon he showed us, though in fairness he took some big shots well

Wlad looked fantastic, Haye looked forlorn and lay the blame at his own feet...quite literally.

He was supposed to hammer Wlad and knock him out. He didn't even bite the bullet at any point and take a few to land a few, he was as stubborn as a mule.

For me it was a very one-sided fight......

All opinions gratefully received, but words like "ridiculous" are a little wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned.

Agree with all of that. Personally I'd have used 'outclassed' more than 'beaten down' but we're getting into semantics here.

What is beyond doubt is that Wlad won without having to leave his comfort zone at any stage.

Cheers James, 'semantics' is the word....people look far too much into things/words

[Dan Dares]

I did have to change a piece recently when someone wrote that El Maachi 'dominated' Colin Lynes, or some such observation, which was clearly not the case.

Whoever said that was either on the payroll, didn't see the fight, or had shit in their eyes. Lynes dealt with El Maatchi that night.

[Asterix]

"Haye wasn't beaten down"...IN YOUR OPINION

In mine he was, no need for the sly digs....I am a news and business journalist who writes about boxing purely for the love of the sport. No better or worse than anyone else, just my opinion and comment after the fight.

It's fact if the person isn't as marked up as the one who won, that they weren't beaten down. I have provided no sly digs. I'm upfront and honest. I said my bit earlier.